Please give opinion about a potential letter

[formflier]

Pastor BC,

My primary goal of continuing communication is that a pathway can hopefully be found to a functional marriage that will help stabilize my family.  A close second is assisting in identifying and caring for the emotional pain ff wife continues to express about a large number of topics. 

Solving problems between God’s people is important, but low on my very full priority list.  I would ask that you think and pray about what would be different in your proposed meeting, vice when we were counseling, and communicate that to me as I seek a wise way forward.  A summation of our differences:  I was not understood during counseling, did not understand your methodology, with a judgment by you that my efforts to be understood/understand were more important to me than pleasing God.   We disagree on what is important to me and my value system.  If what I actually think, feel and believe is not of primary importance when making judgments about me and my family, I have no idea how any counseling methodology would work.

I am once again saddened and concerned that confidentiality issues have come up regarding who FF wife has chosen to communicate with and the source of information shared.  My understanding is that ff wife raised a judgment made by you about me during session with Psychologist.  I was unaware you judgment would come up.   There was discussion between ff wife, I and the Psychologist (same one discussed at beginning of our biblical counseling) that perhaps it would be useful to review emails where judgments were made about me, discuss Biblical Counseling, perhaps have you and Psychologist communicate and that ff wife and I should consider those issues for decision at a future appointment.  No releases of information, verbal or written have been made to begin sharing information.  I am potentially open to such releases. 

I am glad to know that "new mentor woman" is ff wifes’s mentor as I’ve enjoyed her fellowship (and her food!).  I particularly enjoy fellowship with (name of her hubby).  We are currently discussing Dads, daughters, dating and all sorts of decisions that go along in that territory.  Given these existing relationships, destruction of previous relationships from boundary violations, and the confidential and concerning nature of many of the issues ff wife is likely to desire to discuss with "new mentor woman" I would like to better understand how you and (name of church) view confidentiality of these situations.  I do want ff wife to have someone with which she can speak freely.

Clarity:  I am not suggesting at this point that you, "new mentor woman" or your wife have done anything wrong.  You got information and are looking for clarity/resolution.  My tentatively held assumption is that there was a flurry of concerning communication and "new mentor woman" appropriately sought guidance.  I would ask that you share this letter with "new mentor woman" and your wife for their awareness of my communication and their input on establishing appropriate boundaries.  I will share this with  the psychologist.


Sincerely,

FF

[Fian]

My personal take on this is that you aren't refuting the "facts" that BC established, but trying to control their dissemination.  You don't even have to be paranoid to think that looks suspicious.  You might be better to get the BC to agree that he doesn't think you are a danger to your kids, and to a lesser degree get him to also agree that those emails should have been kept private and were not supposed to be used to prove anything to others.

[formflier]

were not supposed to be used to prove anything to others.

I'm editing it a bit since I posted... .and have really ramped up a request for establishment of boundaries and explicit understanding of what is and isn't confidential.

FF

[KateCat]

formflier,

Has your psychologist indicated that what transpired with the BC is something that needs to be addressed directly? And that you might need something in writing from the BC to protect you in case your wife continues to leak emails from that particular private counseling?

This is so tricky.

I can see a number of advantages in following the path that Notwendy suggested on your other thread. Let the BC go his way, and simply smile and nod when you encounter him in person. If he sees you giving him "grace" at this time, would that help your wife? I'm struck by the fact that right now your wife has not one but two women of goodwill to whom she has been able to speak in private. That seems valuable. And kind of unexpected.

So maybe this church, which has likely wronged you via the BC, can work to help your wife as a type of redress of its errors.

Might reengagement with the BC on your part cause this to go in a different direction?  

[flourdust]

I read your other thread with some disbelief, ff. I'll be very blunt here: you are backsliding into the realm of wanting to control and win.

The relationship that you are hoping to see improve is with your wife. Instead, you are focusing on engaging dramatically with this BC (and the rest of that church), under a belief that this is a proxy battle that will help with your primary relationship.

I don't see it.

There is no fight you can win with this BC (and no matter how you couch it in your letter, this is a fight) that will help your marriage. Let it go.

[formflier]

There is no fight you can win with this BC (and no matter how you couch it in your letter, this is a fight) that will help your marriage. Let it go.

I get that aspect of it.  I am very suspicious of myself and my motives.  If my wife were no longer actively getting counseling there, there is no question about it... I would let it go an never look back.

I also have a bit of an attitude of establishing boundaries/structure... .and letting my marriage do... .what it will do.

One of the things that my P and I have identified is that my wife's continuing inability to control herself with regard to information (talking to other side lawyers, sending medical records to her family, emailing information from me to my kids... .and the like... .)  is one of areas with highest risk to end marriage.  That I need to continuing building boundaries to see if it can be contained or I be protected.

But... I do see your point... .

FF

[KateCat]

formflier, I am not understanding your position here.

To me, what flourdust is clearly saying is pretty much what your psychologist is gently saying.

The idea that you engage in proxy battles is a good one to explore, isn't it? It seems that many, many people and organizations have been drawn in to your family's internal battles.

Is there any chance the psychologist is trying to help you prevent further proxy battles?

If she is encouraging you to continue to engage with the BC, then I stand corrected.

[formflier]

If she is encouraging you to continue to engage with the BC, then I stand corrected.

She is encouraging me to make sure that the leadership over BC is informed/aware of how this situation has and is being handled, although she is unsure if it will do any good as the governance is less clear than a board that licenses psychologists.

There is also a practical aspect of my wife's involvement and that there will be continuing communication and contact and need to establish boundaries.

At this point I believe that a large part of my P is kinda exasperated that such unprofessional behavior is going on "in the name of counseling".

Certainly need to confirm again... .


FF

[Cat Familiar]

OK, I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person. I've read your proposed letter at least three times and what I get from it is "word salad." I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. There are so many abstractions that I get lost almost immediately.

I'll give it another shot and I'll put it in bullet points:

-you want to improve relationship with your wife and make your family dynamics healthier

-you didn't feel the BC understood your issues during counseling

-your wife broke confidentiality of your sessions with BC and shared his judgement of you with the P

-you are concerned that your wife might continue to share confidential info from BC sessions with her mentor

-you want to establish protocol with everyone in agreement on what is appropriate to share


Did I get most of it?

[empath]

FF, it seems from your letter that you want the BC to somehow enforce your boundaries 'on' your wife - that's not his responsibility, nor is it an appropriate use of boundaries. The reality is that you cannot control what FFwife says or shares; you can only control you.

In a situation where there is ongoing communication regarding you, I think you can ask to have direct communication about anything that concerns you - to address the 'he said' 'she said' phenomenon. The question becomes whether the church leadership is going to respect your boundaries. In my situation, I thought it best to communicate in a healthy way, focusing on what I need from the church leadership - leaving my husband out of it. (knowing that he was going to do what he does, not respecting boundaries) I would emphasize that you are following the current recommendations, emphasizing the Christian nature of both (Vernick's book and a Christian P) - since they think you are not 'willing' to do the work.


--Note: Biblical counseling is not held to the same standards as mental health professionals who are licensed by states; there are not clear boundaries and from what I can tell, there is no accountability. I think in your case, the best place to appeal to is your BC's status as a pastor and the expectation of confidentiality under that - I don't think that there is any further action one can take, though.  I'm assuming that there wasn't any confidentiality paperwork involved with BC.

Churches tend to be very loose - especially those of the Baptist denomination (highly resistant to any sort of governing body telling them what to do, it's part of their identity).  

[GaGrl]

FF, I had the same reaction to your letter as did Cat... .I couldn't understand what the point was you were trying to communicate. Bulleted points can help you clarify your objective.

And empath's point is well-taken... .no one is going to impose your boundaries on your wife. Although if you establish your boundaries (for your actions, not hers), I'm at a loss as to what a consequence of her breaking confidentiality again might be.

I sense the tension level is rising again, for you especially, and that places family stability at high risk.

[formflier]

trimmed down and bulletized.  Is there still to much JADE in the communication with P section?  This letter is not "to" my wife.  I realize that I can't "make" people enforce boundaries, but I can clarify expectations and make sure all know that I am vigilant about my boundaries/information.   Perhaps take out first sentence of solving problems?

Pastor BC,

Boundaries and confidentiality need to be understood by all involved.

Solving problems:  I attempted to solve differences between you and I multiple times during our counseling relationship, was clearly and unequivocally told no/request denied on all occasions.  I do appreciate the offer and will reach out to you directly if I ever desire to solve differences between us.

Communication with Psychologist about you:  I am once again saddened and concerned that confidentiality issues have come up regarding who ff wife has chosen to communicate with and the source of information shared.  ff wife raised a judgment made via email by you, during a joint session with the Psychologist.  There was discussion between ff wife, I and the Psychologist (same one discussed at beginning of our biblical counseling) that perhaps this is a subject to explore further.  ff wife and I agreed to consider those issues for decision at a future appointment.  No releases of information, verbal or written have been made to begin sharing information.  I am potentially open to such releases.  It appears that ff wife has decided to move forward without mutual agreement and releases regarding sharing of information.  

Intent of email communications:  I would ask that you clarify in writing to FF wife and I, if it was ever your intention that any of your emails or words be shared with other persons or entities to prove things, good or bad, about each other.  

FF wife mentor:  I am glad to know that "new mentor" is FF wifes’s mentor as I’ve enjoyed her fellowship (and her food!).  I particularly enjoy fellowship with "mentor hubby".  We are currently discussing Dads, daughters, dating and all sorts of decisions that go along in that territory.  Given these existing relationships, destruction of previous relationships from boundary violations, and the confidential/concerning nature of many of the issues FF wife is likely to desire to discuss with "new mentor", I would like to better understand, in writing, how you and "church name" view confidentiality of these situations.  I do want ff wife to have someone with which she can speak freely and it is my earnest prayer that her relationship with "new mentor" will help "ff wife" find peace and contentment.

Clarity:  I am not suggesting at this point that you, "new mentor" or your wife have done anything wrong.  You got information and are looking for clarity/resolution.  My tentatively held assumption is that there was a flurry of concerning communication and "new mentor" appropriately sought guidance.  I would ask that you share this letter with "new mentor" and your wife for their awareness and input on establishing appropriate boundaries.  I will share this with the psychologist.


Sincerely,


FF

[GaGrl]

It's still unclear to me what you're asking for. You may need to be even more specific.

"My wife has shared with several parties an email from you that appears to contain a judgement regarding X issue. Without access to my military and medical/VA records, I continue to hold the position that this judgement was made without all information available. My wife has now shared this confidential email info from a place of justifying her position on the status of our family situation or proving me wrong. This does not, in my opinion, serve our objective of stabilzng our family.  In the spirit of asking for support toward our family needs, I am asking ABC... ."

Not saying these are the words, just that more specific is better than the abstracts.

[formflier]

still chopping... .should I use the word angry.  I think I should... .it's honest.




Pastor,

Boundaries and confidentiality need to be understood by all involved.  

Unresolved issues between God’s people:  I do appreciate the offer to meet and will reach out to you directly if I ever desire to solve differences between us.

Communication with Psychologist about you:  I am once again angry that confidentiality issues have come up regarding ff wife’s choices with sharing information.  ff wife raised the issue of a judgment made by you about me.  There was discussion with the Psychologist (same one discussed at beginning of our biblical counseling).   Need for appropriate releases and boundaries was discussed.  ff wife and I agreed to consider those issues for decision at a future joint appointment.  No releases of information, verbal or written have been made to begin sharing information.  

Intent of email communications:  I would ask that you clarify in writing to ff wife and I, if it was ever your intention that any of your communication be shared with other persons or entities to prove things, good or bad, about each other.  

ff wife’s mentor:  I am glad to know that "new mentor" is ff wife’s mentor as I’ve enjoyed her fellowship (and her food!).  I particularly enjoy fellowship with "new mentor hubby".  Given these existing relationships, destruction of previous relationships from boundary violations, and the confidential/concerning nature of many of the issues ff wife is likely to desire to discuss with "new mentor", I would like to better understand, in writing, how you and "church name" view confidentiality of these situations.  I do want ff wife to have someone with which she can speak freely and it is my earnest prayer that her relationship with "new mentor" will help ff wife find peace and contentment.

Clarity:  I am not suggesting at this point that you, "new mentor" or your wife have done anything wrong.  It appears you got information and are looking for clarity/resolution.  My tentatively held assumption is that there was a flurry of concerning communication and "new mentor" appropriately sought guidance from her chain of command.  I would ask that you share this letter with "new mentor" and your wife for their awareness and input on establishing appropriate boundaries.  I will share this with the psychologist.


Sincerely,


FF

[formflier]

Not saying these are the words, just that more specific is better than the abstracts.

We crossed streams.  If I revealed more details... .then I would be violating the confidentiality of the P appointment.

It was discussed in detail with my wife, P  and I.  In fact, after it became obvious where my wife was going and the source of her info, the P gently redirected the discussion to

"It may be valuable to explore this further.  It looks like we would need to get appropriate releases in place to properly share information. "  There were more details shared about releases and confidentiality and we all agreed to come back together towards the end of this coming week for a "final decision" on if we were going to discuss all this or not.

So... I don't want to confirm what judgments were or weren't raised.  There actually were several... .and I have no idea exactly what got back to BC.  I have pretty good idea... .but no need to "confirm" dysfunctional communication.

P later shared with me that she normally wouldn't have let it go that far, but since my wife is so unstable at the moment, she wanted to gather as much data as possible. 



FF

[formflier]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of less drama.

What does it mean about me when I read the shorter letter, realize that it is much more effective, but far less satisfying?

Hmmmm?

FF

[KateCat]

Maybe it means that you've been engaged in versions of this particular battle for the past decade and find it hard to see beyond it.

I think the psychologist will have the good medicine for that. 

[babyducks]

FF,

I find myself agreeing with flourdust and Panda (from your other thread).

Russ Harris is a big proponent of ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy), and he talks about the ACT concept of 'workability'.   Workability is determined by the question:  "Is what you are doing working to make your life richer and fuller or keeping you stuck and struggling?"

Which direction are you going 'richer and fuller' or 'more stuck' and struggling?

How does this letter advance your goal of more stability in your marriage?    How does your wife react to this in any positive way?

You have said several times that this church is not one that particularly appeals to you or represents your spiritual beliefs.   What do you get from engaging in this conversation with this pastor?   Grey Kitty would ask, what good could possibly come from this?

From my view, I have a difficult time imagining what good could come from this.   My suggestion would be to stand down from communicating with this pastor.   Thank him for his concerns.   Tell him it was nice to hear from him, don't engage in a tit for tat with him.   It's counter productive to your stated long terms goals of stabilizing your marriage. 

I agree with Panda, this is a drama triangle and you might want to step into the middle of it.

I agree with flourdust, there is no fight you can win with this BC.

'ducks

[GaGrl]

I agree. I see no benefit coming from this exchange.

As to your latest draft, you say if you ever feel the needto meet, you will... .then you go into all the issues with the boundaries and emails. it appears you really DO need to get your message across... .cloudy as it is.

I would advise spending more time on personal clarity than trying to clarify your wife's actions.

FF, I see a periodic recurrence of your need to be right that feels too close to control for comfort. Is this your safe place?

[empath]

FF, I see the triangle, too. We aren't saying 'less drama'; we are saying no drama. Sometimes, when people have been in the victim position for a long time, they flip to the persecutor position and try to involve others in the triangle as rescuers. I think you may have flipped into the persecutor, now. It is so hard when your spouse will not respect your boundaries to refrain from trying to involve others in trying to get your boundaries enforced with them.

Your goal should be to get.off.the.triangle. Don't do the drama dance, step off the dance floor.

Healthy communication involves going directly to the person with whom you have an issue and addressing it with them. If you don't really have an issue with the church leadership that needs to be addressed, what do you hope will be different by sending this kind of email?

It seems to me that your issue is with your wife's sharing information inappropriately - RA would say that she is going to do that. What is the healthy response?

[formflier]

FF, I see a periodic recurrence of your need to be right that feels too close to control for comfort. Is this your safe place?

PTSD types tend to like to control things that appear "dangerous".

P has cautioned me that I like to go to a place of control when my wife starts doing whacky things.  She caveats that by saying... .you have to pick your battles.  You can't control everything... .and trying to control something you can't... .or that you don't really control will lead to frustration and more anxiety.

So... .clamping down on my wife over leaking/talking to other side in legal case... .worth every ounce of effort/damage to r/s.

That she spread rumors to people in the park... or her family.  Blehh... .let it go.

The church thing is something we have been batting around in P for a while, because there is not an option today, to walk away.

FF

[Notwendy]

PTSD types tend to like to control things that appear "dangerous".


This may be a key to you, FF, as when you see something potentially dangerous, the response is to control, contain.

This isn't unique to you, FF. Fear, and a response to fear can drive all kinds of behaviors- co-dependency, fight or flight. It can be a ticket on to the drama triangle.

Some people go into action mode, others into appeasement.

Fear of danger is important. You know that this is what keeps soldiers in battle alive. It kept us humans alive when we were hunting as primitive mankind. Fear is important.

But it can also cause issues in relationships when we perceive and react to something we feel is dangerous and our feelings are as if we were being chased by a wild beast in the woods or under enemy fire. Your wife may be causing something, but it is not at that level of dangerous.

This level of trying to control other people can actually backfire. People can sense it. It feels manipulative. I know that I can sense this and it feels creepy. They then can tend to react to that and then round and round we go on the triangle.

My fear response is different from yours- and it is a good thing that you were defending our country and not me, because when someone yells at me, I tremble. Well hopefully if I was in the armed forces, I would be trained to do something different. But my fear of anger led to walking on eggshells, appeasing, doing anything to stop the yelling, people pleasing, and just being a doormat hoping the people close to me would not be angry at me.

To change, I had to stop doing this. If I set a boundary, someone would get angry at me. It was terrifying to be raged at when I did. The silent treatment would feel like torture. But after I experienced holding my ground, and getting these reactions- that were difficult- I found that they really were not the danger I perceived.

In a group of people- my mother sets the stage by talking about me. It is annoying. She paints a picture of me. I actually think this is out of fear too. She is invested in appearing normal. Saying anything about her that isn't complimentary is a big taboo in my family - and would result in anger and punishment. But she is also aware that the closest people to her know there are issues. So, this is her way of preempting the situation- she sees a potential "danger" and takes action to control it. But it also causes a lot of problems. Is this what your wife might be doing?

I see more of your style reaction in my H who grew up in a military family with FIL being wounded in WW2.  If I am angry or upset at my H, his reaction is that we are under siege and his response is to fight back-with words- and all is fair in battle- because the point of the fight is to be the winner, to be the one who is right. However, when I approached him upset about something, my intent was to work things out- not win-lose, but find a place where we were both OK with the plan. I saw him as my team mate. He perceived me as the enemy. If I brought up an issue, then I fired the first "shot", and he came back with a slew of angry words until I just gave up, let him have his way, let him be right. Battle won! ( but not good for the marriage).

If posters are telling you this, it isn't to be critical, but because we have seen these patterns in our situations in different ways. PTSD can make the danger feel strong, but reacting as if you are in danger may get you on to the drama triangle and it makes your wife the enemy, not your team mate and this doesn't stabilize the marriage.

My mother has caused some social damage, but over the years, I think people have caught on to what she says. It is hard to wait this out and hurtful, but for me, I found that is it my behavior, not my words, that defend my integrity. Churches are like families- and there are all kinds of people in them. I smile a bit when I hear people talk about the drama in their churches, because then, I don't feel like mine is the only one with that too. It is in all of them. You also know that pastors can be great people, and some just not great people- but like all people, even great people can be flawed as well. I don't know about this BC person, but what he thinks of you may not be as dangerous as you think, and if your wife ruins the whole church community, which she may or may not do, is it worth getting into "fight mode"- knowing the potential for drama in your marriage?

[chump]

FF,

I'm a frequent reader and an infrequent poster, but I always read your posts, and so appreciate how thoroughly you have shared your journey here. It's a treasure trove for the rest of us.

As a child I was taught an expression "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

Essentially every time, I mean EVERY time, in any of my intimate relationships, that I have felt a strong urge to make a point, in hindsight it was so much more about me than it was about the point, or the other person, or whatever. That point that just had to be made, was actually pointing me to my own work, and a quiet, gracious, step back was probably the valorous thing to do. ":)iscretion is the better part of valor."

I'm adding my vote for setting all of this down gently.  A gracious, brief note of thanks for the BC's concern, and take all of these thoughts, points, fears, anger, and turn inward.  Pause and reflect, and wait.

Chump.

[GaGrl]

The question that I keep coming back to is why, if this church is not a fit with your spiritual needs and values, you do not seek another. One's relationship with God and how one worships is such an intimate part of the whole Self... .are you frustrated constraints as to that current part of your life?

You gave this church, congregation, and BC an attempt. It has not worked for you.

[empath]

The church thing is something we have been batting around in P for a while, because there is not an option today, to walk away.

Why is there not an option to walk away?

The reason I ask is that I had to make that decision when the leadership of the church (where I was serving as a primary leader) chose not to follow their own standards and the generally accepted standards in certain areas. It was a hard choice for me, and one that I made after a lot of prayer and discernment. I get a lot of pressure because of that decision - my husband is in leadership there, but it has been very good for me in my personal and spiritual healing to have that space.

[formflier]

[

Why is there not an option to walk away?

 

That splits the family... .assuredly ends in divorce... .at the moment. 

Perhaps after legal matters settled and clarity gained on some of those issues... .perhaps then.

More later on this.

P is really big on "one thing at a time".  Right now my wife is about to pop since BC is over, she is getting settled into a mentorship there and may calm some through that.

FF

[Notwendy]

That would be unfortunate, but it doesn't have to be.

We have several churches in our area. Sometimes the teens will want to attend a different church than their parents. They may have friends at school who go to a certain church, or a church has cool teen programs. The parents seem to go along with this- after all, if the bigger picture is that their teens want to go to church, then which one- within their denomination- is less of an issue. Rarely have I seen the kids cross denominations completely- ie Baptist to Lutheran. Mostly it is a church in the same general denomination.

Sometimes the parents follow the kids. A friend of mine who is pretty traditional attends a trendy church with coffee bar- why- the kids like it, and they want the kids to like church.

This isn't exclusive to Christianity. A friend of mine leans to observant Judaism- she doesn't drive on Saturday, but her husband is more liberal and does. And some families are interfaith families.

I know families where a spouse or child chooses to convert to another religion, or marry someone who is not the same religion or a family member doesn't want to follow any religion. Some families do split over these differences but others have worked them out quite well.

I know that religion is important to you, but the idea that not all being in the same church leads to divorce is a premise that you have. We all have our deal breakers, our boundaries- our absolute requirements, and maybe this one is for your family.

But I have a different take on interfaith marriage/different yolked faith people out of what I have seen. I have seen these differences rip families apart, and then also seen them work it out with amazement. The differences are an issue- but I don't think they are the make or break it issue.

The make or break it issue is their ability- or inability- to discuss, work out, and come to a resolution of their differences in a loving, respectful manner. This includes allowing for and accepting that- they are different from each other, and it is OK to be who they are. I think this can apply to any situation where differences occur in a family.

I'm not being critical of your choice FF, but to present other options.

[formflier]

 
Part of this is trying to gauge how much my wife can take at one time... .before acting out big time... .and also looking at the rest of my life and going... ."If she acts out right now... .what is the impact?"

Legal stuff needs to get put to bed... .or at least the momentum going in the right direction.  Unfortunately for me, at the moment I'm a little bit on the defensive side.  I see several pathways to shift to offense and that is where I ultimately believe I will end up... .with an outcome that I am "ok" with.

So, kinda keep all else as even keel as possible... .which is challenging for a pwBPD.

FF

[empath]

So... .clamping down on my wife over leaking/talking to other side in legal case... .worth every ounce of effort/damage to r/s.

I'm not sure how one 'clamps down' on their spouse's talking to other people. Well, I have seen people try, but usually they are not very successful in their efforts, especially if their spouse has certain traits. It's even more difficult and damaging when the spouse has 'personality level traits'... .  I'm wondering if your 'need' to control her talking in the legal case has impacted the way you see the church issues. I think this might be a situation where you are trying to control something that you can't really control and are setting yourself up for more frustration.

That splits the family... .assuredly ends in divorce... .at the moment. 

Where would that divorce come from? It seems to me that she is pretty invested in making sure that she isn't sinning, and divorce would be sin (at least from what you have described). Our church leadership pressures me to 'work toward worshiping together as a family' and recommends marriage counseling - and sometimes warns my husband that we are headed toward divorce. I figure that we actually have control over that process; it doesn't just happen.

You could always have a detached relationship with the church for the time being. Tactical retreat. You are doing as they have recommended as of the latest instructions. Live and let live at this point - until the legal issues are stable.

[formflier]

Spousal privilege is a big legal concept.  Same as with lawyer.  She broke it.

So next time she wanted to discuss and review documents I pulled out a legal document for her to sign in order for her to see case documents or have a conversation.

She declined and I put the documents away.  It took a couple hours of her ranting before she finally signed and then reviewed documents.

She now is legally committed in writing to honor confidential documents and discussions.

That is clamping down. 

I was nonchalant, she had a choice.  But there was no choice to be involved and not sign.

FF