does anyone know what a healthy couple looks like?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'm detaching from my BPD r/s... .and looking at my history of r/s they have all ended for various unhealthy reasons (not necessarily BPD).

When I look at r/s around me, I look at my FOO, pretty hopeless, I look at my siblings; divorce addiction etc, I look at my friends, dysfunction, divorce or resolute singleness. I do not know a good couple anywhere. Other couples are together but they would seem to follow a common trend of gentle man and 'heavy handed' wife.

Now is this world of friends and acquaintences as it is because, I, having my own way of seeing the world, have chosen to be with or around people with similar backgrounds (experience) and outlooks.

Is this quite a typical view (seeing only rocky couples) from someone (me) who is on these boards trying to sort out a BPD r/s.

Am I part of a subset of the human race that knows basically only 'dysfunction',  while other subsets will know mainly/only... .healthy, for example?

Now next question, with all my work and a better understanding of me (let's hope), is it a generally held opinion that one can move away from the dysfunction subset and join the healthy. And what happens to one's 'unhealthy' friends who are not making the changes?

Or am I actually kidding myself and the 'subset' (dysfunction) is in fact not a subset at all, but the overriding default human condition?

Just a few thoughts for a thursday.

[earlgrey]

I'm detaching from my BPD r/s... .and looking at my history of r/s they have all ended for various unhealthy reasons (not necessarily BPD).

When I look at r/s around me, I look at my FOO, pretty hopeless, I look at my siblings; divorce addiction etc, I look at my friends, dysfunction, divorce or resolute singleness. I do not know a good couple anywhere. Other couples are together but they would seem to follow a common trend of gentle man and 'heavy handed' wife.

Now is this world of friends and acquaintences as it is because, I, having my own way of seeing the world, have chosen to be with or around people with similar backgrounds (experience) and outlooks.

Is this quite a typical view (seeing only rocky couples) from someone (me) who is on these boards trying to sort out a BPD r/s.

Am I part of a subset of the human race that knows basically only 'dysfunction',  while other subsets will know mainly/only... .healthy, for example?

Now next question, with all my work and a better understanding of me (let's hope), is it a generally held opinion that one can move away from the dysfunction subset and join the healthy. And what happens to one's 'unhealthy' friends who are not making the changes?

Or am I actually kidding myself and the 'subset' (dysfunction) is in fact not a subset at all, but the overriding default human condition?

Just a few thoughts for a thursday.

[C.Stein]

What you see on the surface is almost never real.  Can you define "healthy"?

[earlgrey]

What you see on the surface is almost never real.  Can you define "healthy"?

I would agree a happy smiley couple may well be hiding sinister undertones, but a fighty b1tchy couple I'd guess is pretty real!

Healthy... .I'd like to say devoid of addiction and devoid of a one-up/one-down dynamic. A good level of mutual respect, to that each to his/her own in terms of romantic sentimentality.

[Fie]

Very good question Earlgrey,
I also see a lot of dysfunction around me in couples. What I also notice is that a lot of people stay together out of habit (or religion, money,... .) - even if there is no dysfunction, that is.
I am single myself, and the main reason is that I only want to be in a healthy relationship. But your question is very pertinent : does it exist ?

[ambivalentmom]

I've been thinking about this for a long time myself.  I recently learned a lot of new terms for relationships with autistic and non (my current marriage/1st marriage was with upBPD abusive).  So now I am losing my mind with the idea that I will not be able to receive the affection I desire and why can't I just have normal.  Then I blame myself for not being happy and something probably wrong with me, then I remember he has a diagnosis, and then I stress in my mind about why no one else has to go through this.

I know relationships have ups and downs, there are arguments and stress, but I don't think I've been in a relationship where the guy didn't try to lock it down immediately because he was actually hiding something major and didn't want me to leave him.

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey earl, Great question!  From my perspective, the two subsets are not mutually exclusive and some may migrate from one to the other. Or maybe it's a continuum for couples that ranges between the extremes of dysfunction and healthy.  When married to my BPDxW, I was definitely in a rocky relationship.  Since our divorce, I've been in two warm, respectful relationships with kind and thoughtful women, so I think it's possible to jump to a healthier category.  In fact, I consider BPD the crucible that helped me to grow, painfully, to a place where healthier relationships are possible.

LuckyJim

[purekalm]

Yes, my dad's parents are one for sure. They've been married since she was 16 and they've had 8 children, some they lost and some that recently past in the last few years. He was an alcoholic at one point and even cheated on her and she wasn't a pushover but she wasn't "heavy-handed" either, really sweet actually. They worked it out and he quit and worked hard, they've been through a lot, but stuck together all this time. Late 80's, early 90's in age now and still there for each other. In fact, they're so close, I don't think one will live long without the other.

I don't believe a healthy relationship is one devoid of conflict, but it's in how you handle it. Are you both being honest and trying to work through it or attacking each other? Of course, that doesn't seem to apply to BPD's unfortunately. =(

People are definitely breaking up and leaving marriages all over the place, and it's sad. When it really can't be helped I understand, but people who are just annoyed with each other need to get a grip and realize there are so many people who want what they have. Always seeming to be in pursuit of something "better" when you can help each other to be "better".

For me, I don't have anything previous to go on. He was my only and first relationship, and it's just so stinkin sad that he gave up and I had to tell him that I'm done with it all. No matter how much I miss whatever closeness we had, I never want another relationship. I lived my first 23 years without one, so I believe I can manage.

I think you'll be just fine and sometimes everything just seems gloomy and it's difficult to get a new or more positive perspective. =)

[Bushido]

Hey earl, Great question!  From my perspective, the two subsets are not mutually exclusive and some may migrate from one to the other. Or maybe it's a continuum for couples that ranges between the extremes of dysfunction and healthy.  When married to my BPDxW, I was definitely in a rocky relationship.  Since our divorce, I've been in two warm, respectful relationships with kind and thoughtful women, so I think it's possible to jump to a healthier category.  In fact, I consider BPD the crucible that helped me to grow, painfully, to a place where healthier relationships are possible.

i have wondered ... .how it feels like being in a nonBPD relationship...
all my life ... .only one relationship... .for 18 years ...
and here i am... .wondering

[Lucky Jim]

Bushido -- I'm happy to relate how it feels at greater length if you're interested.  Let's just say that there's a lot less drama.  Sure, problems come up, but they are not "the sky is falling in" type of catastrophes that I experienced w/my BPDxW.  I don't have the expectation of a confrontation when I spend time w/my GF, so it's a lot more relaxing to hang out together.  We enjoy each other's company and have fun.  Isn't that what a r/s is all about?

earlgrey, When you get a new car, you suddenly see a lot of the same models on the road.  By the same token, when you detach from a BPD r/s, maybe you see a lot of dysfunction out there, though I would hesitate to say that unhappy couples are the norm.

LuckyJim

[Bushido]

Bushido -- I'm happy to relate how it feels at greater length if you're interested. 

LuckyJim

So very interested... .

I also feel like i have to get to know myself.
Every moment of my being was sacrificed in to this game of BPD with the hope of perhaps... .Just perhaps...
But more likely was always do my best until... .
And here i am...
Free from the game...
And knowing that i did everything i could.
But this is no joke to handle.

So i do wonder... .
How is a relationship... .BPD free

[HopefulDad]

I don't believe a healthy relationship is one devoid of conflict, but it's in how you handle it.

This.  So many couples make work their own emphasis on common interests, spending time together, divvying up the household chores vs. parenting vs. job, etc. that I don't think anyone can clearly say there is a healthy way vs. unhealthy way to go about these in a relationship.  But one thing all couples are going to face no matter what is disagreement.  No two people are going to agree about everything and sometimes those disagreements are going to be over big issues.

How these inevitable disagreements are handled, big and small, is to me the biggest indicator of a healthy relationship. 

[earlgrey]

How these inevitable disagreements are handled, big and small, is to me the biggest indicator of a healthy relationship. 

This feels like solid ground to me. The quicksand of the BPD r/s that I have been trying to walk on for some time has been just sucking me in and literally driving me mad. One has a disagreement, inevitable as you say, but are there two POVs allowed on the table? NO. End of.

In my experience there is no possibility to resolve anything because quite simply there is only one opinion, one way, one person that has any say in the matter. And I think we all know how really useful it is to try and explain otherwise.

Had a chat (rare) with SD19 (D of STBexw) about school, future etc and came away feeling really good, (hope it was reciprocal). There were two ideas on the table, four working ears and it was very constructive, novel and generally a feel good experience.

If that's healthy I'm good with that.

[Lucky Jim]

In my experience there is no possibility to resolve anything because quite simply there is only one opinion, one way, one person that has any say in the matter. And I think we all know how really useful it is to try and explain otherwise.

Agree, earl.  It's a one-way street.  The BPD dynamic doesn't foster open communication, in my experience, because the things unsaid get driven underground.  What's the point of discussing issues when compromise is not an option?  I spent years banging my head against the BPD wall, without lasting success.

LuckyJim

[Skip]

We have this editorial... .

Some of the characteristics of a healthy relationship are:

Respect - listening to one another, valuing each other's opinions, and listening in a non-judgmental manner. Respect also involves attempting to understand and affirm the other's emotions.

Trust and support - supporting each other's goals in life, and respecting each other's right to his/her own feelings, opinions, friends, activities and interest. It is valuing one's partner as an individual.

Honesty and accountability - communicating openly and truthfully, admitting mistakes or being wrong, acknowledging past use of violence, and accepting responsibility for one's self... .

More--> https://bpdfamily.com/content/characteristics-healthy-relationships

[Lucky Jim]

Thanks, Skip!  Quite pertinent.     LJ

[pallavirajsinghani]

Yes, my husband and I are part of the "other" subset, the functional, content, married couple.  Ask any questions... .

This is not a facetious reply.

We just built and continue to build each minute a foundation of basic ordinary human courtesy and common sense.  Just ordinary stuff like Please and Thank you and making sure that we maintain the sanctity of one another relationship with oneself.

That is, the focus of both of us is to help strengthen his relationship with himself and his focus is to strengthen and maintain the sanctity of my relationship with myself.

The peace and harmony between us is a natural result of the above.

Essentially, it is a continuing effort to maintain each other's dignity and self respect.

And another by product of this is that we find each other awfully attractive and sexy... .to an outsider, I would be a 5.1" middle aged, 130 lbs woman... .not a 10 by any standards... .to other, he is a tall, slender, man with high cheekbones and a dad bod belly... .but to each other, we are perfect because we make each other feel good with and about our presence.

It is like an artist constantly making a beautiful painting... .we do the best we can for each other... .and be the best we can be... .

Ordinary, dorky, middle class life is indeed nothing less than miraculous!

[earlgrey]

Mr and Mrs pallavirajsinghani delighted to make your acquaintance and so happy to hear that the other subset does exist!

Now that the definition of healthy has been well discussed and defined, we can move onto does anyone know a healthy couple?

Apart from Mr and Mrs P, I'm still drawing blanks, but it is good to know we are not looking for hen's teeth.

(As an aside, the description of your couple is very edifying)

[C.Stein]

does anyone know a healthy couple?

I think this is a very difficult determination because you never really know what is going on behind closed doors, even if you are close to the couple.  I do think there are some things you can look for that might indicate how a couples relationship truly is, but you still may find yourself surprised at what the real dynamic is.

[earlgrey]

Hi CS I think you are probably right.

I think this healthy couple bit has been put out in the open here among the posts, despite maybe a rather general subject title.

Whether you know one or not is probably pretty irrelevant, what is more important is knowing what one is... .I think i do now!

[C.Stein]

How about pitching a difficult situation that a romantic couple might find themselves in, then discuss how your idea of a healthy couple might deal with it.   

[hollow]

If by healthy you're referring to functional, content, secure, mature then yes, I have experienced that. I was in a relationship where there was mutual respect, mutual support, great sex, loads of fun moments, random happiness, security, no jealousy, neither of us possessive, great communication, lots of humor (I can't stress this enough), etc. Can't remember conflict, as we had resolved things pretty early on (yes, the beginning was intense, but that's my bipolar traits to blame, which are similar to BPDs' approach to relationships). After we figured a way to talk to each other, it was as easy as cutting through butter. The only reason it ended was that we got unlucky. Life through us a curve-ball, we ended up in different countries and had no way of getting back together. Even the letting go was mature. It didn't hurt a fraction of how much the BPD breakup hurt.

[pallavirajsinghani]

I think that this site would not be able to statistically prove that healthy couples exist in equal or greater degree than non-healthy couples do simply because this is a site for people who are indeed experiencing unhealthy/painful relationships.  (I am on this board due to a possibly BPD or NPD SIL.)  So if this question were asked in another type of board, the replies would be pleasantly plenty.

Yes, we have challenges too... .I want a $5,000+ chandelier made of bike chains by a NY artist and my husband is shocked at the idea... .so I have to negotiate and plot and hint and plan and conspire and gently nudge... .perhaps for another year, two years, three... .who knows,  before I can wear him down... .so the question is how to compromise without conflict?

Surely, its called diplomacy. Nothing is worth ranting and raving and creating chaos and heartache... .the emotional tapestry that has been woven for so long and so carefully and so beautifully  is worth defending against personal urges.  It takes discipline, not freedom to make what we have. 

Patience... .patience... .patience... .if it's in Pallavi's kismet to have a chandelier made of bike chains,  then it will come to her and if not, it won't... .it would be another object to lust for... .relegated to a rich internal imaginative life and enjoyed in its full mental splendor.

All of you here on this board have the ingredients for a  healthy relationship... .it is a matter of finding the right recipe and making the right dish that is the most nutritious to you.  It's a process and all of you are at different stages of this process (as are we, as is our family, as is our brother).

Is our life perfect?  Of course not, but is as good as it gets.