My exes Best Friend is contacting me

[joeramabeme]

and I need some advice and to vent. . .

I met my ex at a social group that was run by my exes best friend, Jane.  Jane is nice but narcissistic.  She came to our wedding, was part of our holidays etc. and the 3 of us were friends through the entire 15 year r/s.

When my ex wife announced her desire to divorce, Jane seemed genuinely helpful, thoughtful and tried to speak to my ex about reconsidering her actions.  I was really moved by her thoughtful actions.

Eventually the ex moved out and I had not heard from Jane in many months then suddenly one day, two months before my divorce date, I got a text from Jane asking me how I am and that we shouldn't let my divorce come between our friendship.  I was suspicious and reminded Jane that her allegiance was to my ex as they were best friends to which she replied; I don't live by those social conventions - we should remain friends!

Long story short, Jane got in the middle of my divorce negotiations on behalf of my ex; who as I understood it, was overflowing with anxiety and/or anger about having to go to court.  In the end, I decided to let it all go and thought nothing the worst of Jane except that she is narcissistic and overly self important.

Fast forward to 1 month after the divorce and Jane is asking me to come to a holiday social that my ex and I had regularly attended for years, except this time the ex was bringing her new BF.  When I told Jane how that would be painful for me she completely dismissed me as over reactive and told me I would eventually have to see my ex at one of "her" social events anyway.  I didn't go and felt sad and confused by Jane and questioned myself for awhile after.  Two months later Jane again invites me to yet another one of "her" socials and again with my ex to be there with BF.  I told Jane how I just wanted her friendship as I was in a lot of pain.

At this point Jane blurts out to me; your ex is never-ever coming back and it is going to take you a long, long, long time to get over this and you should go see a therapist - the call ended shortly after and I alternated between shock and rage.  

Jane and I haven't communicated since that day (7 months ago) until today.  I got an email from Jane today simply saying; "helloo, long time, we should chat".  

Of all the people that I felt hurt by during my divorce Jane is in a league of her own.  There was absolutely no reason for her to be vicious and the only guesses I have as to why is that she wanted to be a proxy for my ex wife's anger or Jane was taking her personal anger out at me as she has three prior divorces.  Which really doesn't make sense as my ex left me.

Despite all my anger, I feel stuck.  I really really want to tell Jane some very very very nasty words but also know this wont help me.  On top of that my mind is telling me different things about why all of a sudden is this Jane contacting me?  And of course there is now a parade of "what-if's" in my mind such as; what if my ex is engaged.  I hate this f'in woman

The best I can think to do is tell Jane that I will contact her if I want to talk and then poke fun at her physical ailments.

This is all going to leave me with a what is up with my ex feeling and I have worked so hard to detach from her and I just want to be left alone at this point as my mind has slowly stopped simmering from all this crap and now this woman, who isn't even related to me at all, is knocking at the door stirring the pot.  

What the heck

[valet]

Part of the mess that happens after one of these relationship ends is also in how you learn to handle those that were there when you were still together with your ex.

In my personal experience, unless they've really shown that they care about me outside of the relationship that I was in... .they've gotten the ax. There's no need to keep people in your life that cause you pain, especially when it would be so easy to handle the situation by blocking/etc. And if it comes down to it you might just have to tell this person not to contact you.

It's not drama inducing to stop talking to people if they're causing you distress. It's you taking control of your environment and trusting yourself to do what's right for you. You can't play second fiddle to someone that doesn't have your best interest in mind.

[Mutt]

Hi Joe,

I can see how that was a painful ordeal with exe's friend when you're going through divorce. I'm sorry that you had to go through that Joe. I think that J is testing the waters for the moment being, to see if you'll respond,  that said, she her own values about what friendship means and everyone has their own values, i'd like to add to what valet said about people that cause pain in your life, I think that the question would what are my values when it comes to friends, what types of people do I want close to me, supportive, caring, people that value me? What are your boundaries with people that you think of as friends?

[joeramabeme]

In my personal experience, unless they've really shown that they care about me outside of the relationship that I was in... .they've gotten the ax. There's no need to keep people in your life that cause you pain, especially when it would be so easy to handle the situation by blocking/etc.  . .

It's not drama inducing to stop talking to people if they're causing you distress. It's you taking control of your environment and trusting yourself to do what's right for you. You can't play second fiddle to someone that doesn't have your best interest in mind.

Thanks Valet
I hit a stuck point right here; My exes friend has shown she cares about me - a lot.  I knew her before I was dating my ex and during our marriage etc.  She and I had our own friendship, even hung out 1-1, even so I never dismissed the context that this is my exes best friend. 

So here are some of my thoughts which are too scattered and disorganized to assemble cohesively.
- What to do when someone has treated you real nice and then real bad.  It is kind of like dealing wiht my ex again.  Is she a friend who had a bad moment. Did I trigger her crap and so should be forgiving?   The only thing I can say for sure is I do not trust her at all, she completely shattered all of my trust for her nad I care not to reassemble that.  On top of these feelings is a deep desire to keep continuity in my life and longevity of friendships - even broken ones - especially after losing my wife of 11 years.  I have other friends, but my divorce resulted in putting this friendship and another close one on thin/dangerous ice where I can't trust these people anymore.

Thank you for the comment about "not drama inducing".  I needed to hear that as the other friend I reference is playing that card up as if my grieving my marriage is drama.

[joeramabeme]

what types of people do I want close to me, supportive, caring, people that value me? What are your boundaries with people that you think of as friends?

Yes, boundaries!  Thank you!  I have actually felt where they reside over the last year.  And that is the crux of what feels so uneasy.  How do I set boundaries that aren't so rigid that people can't mess up without getting tossed out of my life.  I guess my boundaries are telling me I am angry, really angry.  And I think my response is justified.

As you say, she is testing the waters with me to see if it is safe to reconnect - but why?  She knows she blew up the friendship and 7 months later she wants to reassemble it without taking responsibility for her bad actions.  She could have said - hey jrb, I am sorry for being an ass, want to chat with you.  Rather than a cryptic lame 'we should chat'.

This just feels like it stirs up all my negative feelings all over again and once again, I feel conflicted between wanting the friendship and knowing that it is not in my best interest because I cannot trust her any longer.

[Confused108]

Isn't this what they refer to as Triangulation? When they try to bring or talk about a 3rd party during or after your relationship/ breakup?

[Mutt]

Hi Joe,

How do I set boundaries that aren't so rigid that people can't mess up without getting tossed out of my life.

I went overboard, I was hypervigilant, kind of like being on high alert and seeing threats that weren't there, so my boundaries were too rigid, you don't want high fences, you want low fences that can change. My T said, "How about giving people a chance, let them in and if they don't respect  you then make a choice and don't allow that person in" Which to makes more sense then rejecting everyone, it's realistic.

She could have said - hey jrb, I am sorry for being an ass, want to chat with you.  Rather than a cryptic lame 'we should chat'.

It's cryptic , it also absolves her from explaining or apologizing, maybe she's the type of person that doesn't ask or say things directly?

[joeramabeme]

It's cryptic , it also absolves her from explaining or apologizing, maybe she's the type of person that doesn't ask or say things directly?

Hi Mutt

Yes, it is cryptic, and I think there are two possible points of view.  
First, she is intentionally cryptic to avoid responsibility but wants to possibly see if she can get back in my graces.
Second, she is cryptic because she is once again being a proxy for my ex.

I guess in the end I just have to go with my gut, which says, stay away.  

Here it is again though.  The very very stuck place just like in my marriage where my gut was telling me one thing about my perceptions and my heart was wishing for a different scenario.  

For people like myself that have come from homes where they had to "earn their love"; these situations prove unbearably difficult and tormenting.  Intellectually knowing you are probably making a good choice to protect yourself and emotionally hoping for the kind of connectivity that you yearn for.  

On the one hand, if you chose to protect yourself, then you minimize chances of being hurt by someones bad behaviors.  On the other hand, you are still hurt by the feeling of separateness from others - which is something I have worked real hard to have.

This is what I felt like when deciding not to fight my exuBPDw when she wanted a divorce.  I already felt the pain of ignoring my gut which told me that I needed to take action and make changes.  Yet now that I am on the other side of those changes, I once again feel the pain of being alone.  Feels like the choice is protect/alone vs. un-protect/together

Honestly, I sometimes feel that all this relationship stuff is just a bad twist of fate and that I am powerless over my own relationship destiny as a function of my FOO.  Not saying that in self pity, rather, just trying to explain for myself why all of this has been so damned hard for so long and at 50+ still alone and still struggling with it even though I believe I have made progress.

TGIF

[Mutt]

Hi Joe,

Do you mean that you struggle with relationships?

[Mars22]

 I agree. in a way, this is a form of triangulation?. In my opinion it doesn't seem like there's much of a friendship. What is this friendship based on again? How is this person really involved in your life? . It only seems like having this connection is only going to always remind you of your ex?

Is this truly a friendship in the common terms? A true friend would understand where you are in your life.

Feels like too much drama to me.  

Maybe someday it might work but, for now perhaps the timing is off. Why torture yourself. Drop the bag of rocks and move on.its only weighing you down at this point... from what I'm feeling anyway.

[heartandwhole]

Hi JRB,

I'm sorry you are going through this. I would feel upset by this situation, too, and asking similar questions about how to handle a close relationship that seems to have morphed into a different kind of relationship—and unfortunately one that triggers my stuff. I was in a similar situation years ago (romantic) and one thing that I learned and wanted to share with you is this:

If I received a text like that after what had gone down previously, I'd respond honestly and in kind. What I mean is, I wouldn't go deeper than she did. Personally, I don't care for the "should" in "we should talk," but that's my stuff rearing its head. I would avoid lashing out, or pouring out how hurt I was, etc. I used to open up to people who weren't opening to me, and it was painful for me in the long run. Just because I wanted to connect on a deeper level, get honest, be real, etc., didn't mean that they wanted or were capable of that.

Since you are not feeling inclined to talk to J. right now, maybe you could just say something like: "Hi. Don't want to talk right now, hope you are well." (if that's true).

This stuff is hard to navigate, especially when she is both your friend and your ex's. I hope you'll be gentle with yourself, and let your feelings have their space. You deserve close, fulfilling friendships, JRB.  

heartandwhole

[valet]

Hey Joe, I identify with those same feelings of powerlessness on occasion myself. I have issues with intimacy (still) that I am working on and know how hard it is to break these patterns. It does feel impossible some days.

But that's not the nature of improvement. You can still act despite your feelings.

I know you work on these things. You've been very thoughtful thus far and are headed in a great direction.

Hi Joe,

Do you mean that you struggle with relationships?

But I do mean to echo Mutt's question, fairly explicitly. It's gonna be tough to think about but definitely a good beginning to a longer series of self-inquiries.

[joeramabeme]

Hi Joe,
Do you mean that you struggle with relationships?

LOL, alright I will bite.  So could i take this to mean, cynically said - you struggle with r/s' - with the inference being "welcome to the club"?

To clarify, I mean that there are many others I have met through the years that have not had to work half as hard as myself to have r/s' that are twice as healthy.

[joeramabeme]

If I received a text like that after what had gone down previously, I'd respond honestly and in kind. What I mean is, I wouldn't go deeper than she did. Personally, I don't care for the "should" in "we should talk," but that's my stuff rearing its head. I would avoid lashing out, or pouring out how hurt I was, etc. I used to open up to people who weren't opening to me, and it was painful for me in the long run. Just because I wanted to connect on a deeper level, get honest, be real, etc., didn't mean that they wanted or were capable of that.

heartandwhole - thanks - I definitely needed to hear this as a reality check that synchronizes all my parts. 

I have decided to not respond and if she tries again to simply tell her I am not ready and will contact her when I am.

Thank you - it is this type of camaraderie we have on this board that is so helpful when our emotions want to overpower our intellect, this dialogue helped me synchronize the two of them thereby removing all doubt and uncertainty and enabling me to feel empowered.

 

[joeramabeme]

Thanks Valet - yes - I am making progress and lots of it.

FWIW, I am well aware of my r/s struggles both romantic and non-romantic.  This experience took it all up to a level that is well beyond where I ever imagined and in some ways want to be.  Higher than I want to be because the foundation of my life is at a much lesser developed level and it in some ways it feels like it would be easier to be naive than informed and see all these things that then have to be addressed.

[Mutt]

Hi Joe,
Do you mean that you struggle with relationships?

LOL, alright I will bite.  So could i take this to mean, cynically said - you struggle with r/s' - with the inference being "welcome to the club"?

To clarify, I mean that there are many others I have met through the years that have not had to work half as hard as myself to have r/s' that are twice as healthy.

We have door prizes?  I'm part of the club too. I just wanted to share something with you with a session that I had my therapist.

I talked to her about my abandonment fears, I tend to push people away and then that triggers loneliness. I've struggled with r/s's for as far as I can remember and I told her that I'm tired of being told by others that I mean well and that I try. So, it's really disappointing that I put in what I feel like herculean efforts and I still don't get it judging by the feed back from others. I said want to know were to look inside so I cab get some answers and I then I know what I can work on. That being said she suggested a book that I'm going to suggest to you.

https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Your-Life-Breakthrough-Negative/dp/0452272041

[SWLSR]

I know how you feel.  My ex wifes best friend contacted me also.  It helped me with my recovery because I was able to see what really happened.  If your ex Is BPD then she used you in such a way that is beyond any form of decentcy.  Whatever you choose to do try to come to terms with yourself.  I do not know what you exes best friend is trying to do but perhaps you may need to find out it help you turn this page.

[joeramabeme]

That being said she suggested a book that I'm going to suggest to you.

https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Your-Life-Breakthrough-Negative/dp/0452272041

Bookmarking this post and adding to my reading list. 

Thanks and yes, I will take the door prize!