Worried about how this will go.

[koseligb]

I'm going out to see my parents this weekend, the first time I will be at their house since a big blow-up last Christmas (and only my third time seeing them since then). I am going out because I want to talk with them before the holidays to let them know about some new boundaries my husband and I are implementing once the holidays roll around.

He and I decided that it'll be best for us to stay at a hotel when we go out to see them rather than stay at their house, to give everyone some time away from each other. We always wind up feeling like we are "trapped" at the house, and after a day or so the situation always seems to go south. We want to find a way we can have a healthy relationship with them and feel like we have some control over the visit, so this is how we've decided to do it, at least for now.

I also intend to talk to them and remind them that if there's something either of them feels they need to speak to one of us about, we won't be "cornered" anymore - which is their usual tactic of forcing us into a confrontational conversation about something we did that they didn't like. My husband feels like he can't do anything right around them - ironically, I think my uBPD mom probably feels the same way about him.

I'm really nervous about this conversation, but I think it's important for me to do it. I haven't been great at standing up for my husband in the past and I know it's important to him that I am doing this. But man I'm scared as hell to have this conversation... .

[Turkish]

I'd be nervous about this too!

It might go better if you left out the real whys.  No matter how valid your whys are,  it sounds like your asking them to be responsible for your feelings.  They are already Invalidators, so looking for validating is likely to escalate conflict. Though you can always look for ways to validate them in the moment in order to reduce conflict,  think of this as don't be invalidating to start. "We're staying at the hotel and we'll be over at such and such times." They will likely try to draw you in.  Repeat. My T is a big fan of repeating something verbatim until the other party gets it.  Don't engage in the argument which is likely to start and not be good for any of you.  Small diversion gives a smaller target. 

[sad but wiser]

For me, the hardest thing about setting boundaries is the other person's (BPD) tendency to laugh at or resent my new boundaries.  This is understandable:  a boundary lessens their power. 
  It sounds to me like a power struggle.  Just remember, you don't have to "fight" for your rights or "confront" the other person.  All you need to do is stand up for yourself and do your thing.
  I am wondering why the big "talk" has to happen beforehand?  Does your husband feel that you need to do this and "set them straight" and "support him?"  Or is this your idea, based on family dynamics and your familiarity with what would work best?  I don't know, it just sounds like an additional level of drama with you in the middle.
  Is there any problem with merely checking into a hotel and letting your parents know you appreciate their hospitality, but you are wanting to do it this way?  (And don't discuss the "why" which can only lead to pointless discussion,since you've made the decision?)
  Best of luck with this.  Remembering... .

[Notwendy]

My own take on explaining boundaries and reasons is that, if speaking reasonably about something with the hope that my parents would understand my point of view worked in the first place, if they were willing to respect boundaries- then, we'd have a different relationship.

Explaining why- to my mother- would feel blaming and shaming to her. She would dysregulate and not seem to understand what I said.

My boundaries with her stemmed from action. I didn't change my relationship with her drastically, still tried to treat her with respect, but when she crossed my boundaries, I didn't try to engage with discussion, but simply took action.

She once dysregulated over something minor a few hours before I was leaving. I picked up my suitcase, said "Bye Mom, I am leaving now" in a calm voice and left.

I have a similar issue staying with my parents. I was a captive audience. I also decided to stay at a hotel.  This gave me some privacy and some control over how much time I spent with her. I found that briefer or more structured visits tended to lead to less dysregulation. It works better to go out to lunch, or to the store, than to sit around the house, or to drop in for coffee, or lunch, but not the whole day.

I began this when my father was still alive. When I stayed with them, mom made me the subject of her emotions. But I was also dealing with my own- my father was very ill. It was just too much for me. But trying to explain this to them was not effective. I just took action. It may have puzzled them at first, but I still have a relationship with my mother, one with boundaries.

Three is a triangle ( see the drama triangle). You can stand up for your husband, but consider how to do this without jumping on the triangle. If you defend him to your mother verbally- will you then become the persecutor with her as the victim. Is there a better way? Perhaps telling him that you love him and will implement some changes- like staying in a hotel, not discussing him with your mother, that the two of you will plan more structured visits with her to make visits more manageable, and walk out or away if she starts any verbal abuse.

[jdtm]

My take - no talk, no discussion, no reasons - just do it.  Simply say " we're staying at a hotel this Christmas".  If questioned, reply "it is a Christmas present from us to us" and then - repeat, repeat, repeat.  No talk, no discussion, no reasons.  Smile and move on.  Hard to do, I know, but remember - it takes two to discuss/argue/fight/ - just don't be "one" of the two.  Good luck - keep statements short, to the pint and move on (just like stating the weather - it is what it is). 

[Notwendy]

I also noted that, while I don't think my mother would say "don't stay with me" I think it took the strain off her when we didn't stay with her. Not because my mother would have gone all out for us, but because it raised her anxiety to have extra people in the house. My mother prefers to have control over her house, her things, her routine.

Extra people using her things in the house are a stress. She likes everything in place and just as she has it. So, the chances are that someone would leave a towel or a dish out were higher. ( even if I did the dishes and the wash when we were there). Also, she needs time to herself ( and so do we).

The visits are better when we have our space-- and she has her space too.

Your parents may protest, but actually are relieved and might not say it.

[Fie]

 


I have the same opinion as the other members : don't talk about having new boundaries, just apply them. I cannot count the times I told my BPDex that I was going to have this or that boundary. He just walked over it, and it was not even there because I ended up not sticking to it anyway.

Any conversation about 'we are going to apply boundaries from now on' is likely to end up in a fight anyway. They for sure won't like the fact that you are going to have boundaries and additionally they will think that by announcing them you want to provoke them.

So I would not announce that you won't be cornered anymore. Maybe you are a bit impatient to tell them about your new rules - I know I would be. But don't worry, they probably will corner you soon enough. At that time you can *apply* your boundaries, in stead of talking about them. That's a lot more powerful.

I like the advice Turkish gave you, to just repeat what you said if they ask you why you want  to stay at a hotel. It's a trap I also fall in often, to want to answer the precise question. But with BPD it just doesn't work that way. And the truth is, you are in no way obligated to tell them any reason, for anything. You can just tell them 'It's what we want'. And repeat it  :-)

Let us know how your visit went, if you want !

[koseligb]

Thank you all so much for the replies! Even after months of therapy (and my therapist asking me some of these same questions) I still want to believe that I can have a calm but tough conversation like this with my mom and have it end well... .NotWendy's reply really hit home though:

My own take on explaining boundaries and reasons is that, if speaking reasonably about something with the hope that my parents would understand my point of view worked in the first place, if they were willing to respect boundaries- then, we'd have a different relationship.

 

I spoke with my husband this morning and asked him what he would like to see come from me going out this weekend, and he really didn't know. We both are kind of at a loss with how to approach the situation, but I think, at least with boundary-setting, maybe it is a good idea to just *do it* and not discuss it with them beforehand. It almost feels a little like asking permission - I have to remind myself that I have the power to make my own choices when it comes to my life and boundaries, AND that I'm not responsible for anyone else's happiness than mine!   

I'm playing things by ear this weekend and if they bring up what happened last Christmas, I'm prepared to use some of the communication tools I've learned here to discuss it with them. I'm not sure they will even approach the subject at all, though. So far just lots of pleasantries exchanged.

[sad but wiser]

Good luck!

[koseligb]

So, I had a nice visit with my parents. Very pleasant - the kind of visit you hope adds some "deposits" to the bank so that future visits can build on that pleasantness (anyone else think like this?). So, no talk about my husband and I not staying with them at Christmas when we visit.

We invited my parents to come visit to see a concert this weekend; my dad's favorite band is playing at a venue near us. I never mentioned anything about hosting them when we asked if they'd be interested in the concert (told them tickets were on us). This is kind of the opposite problem now - I know my husband isn't comfortable hosting them in our house, or would at least prefer not to. How do I have this conversation with them? We happen to have a small home with only one bathroom, but they've stayed with us a couple times in the past (though not in the most recent visit to our state; they decided on their own to stay at a hotel and we didn't argue) so I'm not sure how to change the status quo.

[sad but wiser]

Congratulations on a good visit!  I wouldn't overthink their visit to you.  They are likely to think of a hotel themselves, but if not, you might offer to pay for one.

[Fie]

Nice to know your visit went well, happy for you !

If I were you, I'd stick with the new approach. No sleepovers, and no discussion about it.
Your parents are adults, who know that after the concert they will need a place to sleep. So you could consider it being up to them to book a hotel. For your own peace of mind, you could make sure they *know* you don't want them to sleep over (I'm assuming you don't). If I were in your shoes, I think I would send them a short message, telling them something in the line of 'I'm looking forward to going the concert with you. Don't forget to book a hotel'. Doing it orally in a normal conversation might sound less harsh, but it might also drag you again in a circular argument about the 'why'. No need to explain why's, not even that your house is too small, or you need privacy ... .you don't want them to sleep over because you don't want it. *Any* reason you give them might cause them to give you a counter-reason ('we have slept at your place before'. You can just tell them that you 'prefer it that way'.

BPD is hard to navigate, I know ... .but apparently you did a wonderful job last time, so I'm sure you will handle it just fine this time, too. And remember ... .if they treat you or your husband in a way you don't like, you can leave at anytime. If you ask me, it's the only way you will be able to have a (more or less) normal relationship with them.

If you want, keep us updated on how it went !

[koseligb]

Thanks everyone. My mom actually texted yesterday evening wondering what they should do about accommodations. "We don't want to impose, but are we staying with you Friday?"

I froze, and took awhile to respond. Talked it over with my husband, and we both kind of felt frozen and unsure how to respond. He and I both felt like the nice thing to do would be to let them stay with us, since they'll probably be in town less than 24 hours anyways. But he was really uncomfortable with the idea. I was more comfortable with the idea, but I've also had many positive interactions with them over the last few months. And, since he's the primary trigger, I can understand why he isn't comfortable (and I told him that).

I eventually texted my mom back late last night, asking if I can get back to her about it. She texted this morning and said not to worry, they'd make reservations.

She's been much less triggered lately since she left her stressful job, so I am feeling more positive about our relationship. However, I feel guilty for a couple of reasons - I feel guilty that I didn't offer up our place immediately and that she's going to stay at a hotel, *AND* I feel guilty FOR feeling guilty about it, because after the last big blowup nearly blew apart our marriage, I feel like I'm supposed to be at a point where I should really want to put my marriage before my relationship with my mom. (I realize that waiting to talk through the decision with my husband was a reasonable way for me to prioritize the marriage over my parents, but the fact that I have guilt over it doesn't make me feel great)

I think my mom has a milder case of BPD than a lot of peoples' loved ones on this forum, so it's really easy for me to second guess my experiences and wonder if I'm out of line thinking she may have it, but I have to be mindful during the good times of the many times we've dealt with unreasonable blowups and fights.

[Fie]

Feeling guilty, however completely unnecessary, is very normal. It is what a BPD upbringing does to us. Children of BPD feel guilty for things other people would never feel guilty for. So this could
be a very strong indicator that your mum is BOD, also... . However, whether she really 100% sure has it and to which degree, does not *really* matter here I think. Your / your husbands desire for them to not sleep over is a boundary, and you are allowed to have it.
Having the feeling of 'choosing' your mum over your husband can be perfectly normal if you ask me. The patterns that have been installed in us while little, are the hardest to get rid of.

To avoid going over and over this again each time you meet your parents, you could consider making the not sleeping over a non negociable thing between your husband and you. You could also consider to answer to your mums message with something in the line of : we do prefer you don't sleep over, this seems to work best for us. So she kind of gets already that this will be the 'rule' from now on. It can also give you a feeling of empowerment, since you felt kind of frozen, which I understand, it can be a way to tell your own feelings that you are in charge of your life. You can add that you are looking forward to meeting them.
Does this make sense to you ?