I need BPD to be incurable

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I've read about different treatments for BPD, however, I do not believe there can or ever will be a cure to this illness.

If my BPDex was to ever gain true insight into her illness and the behaviours she has perpetrated against myself (and presumably the others before me which she has vilified) then she would be overcome with such shame and guilt that she would be sicker than she ever was before.

The best she can hope for is partial insight which will allow her to function into the future.

Why is this good for me? Because understanding that my ex can NEVER change helps in detaching from her.

Today is day 32 of NC since the final discard and I am struggling mightily with depression and to go more than a few minutes without her dominating my thoughts.

Mind you, I don't need any more logical reasons to detach from her, of those there are plenty. It is just that my emotions have nowhere near caught up with my mind. However, perhaps it will help to build up further reasoning, in case the highly unlikely scenario of her trying to recycle should occur.

[snowmonkey]

I've read about different treatments for BPD, however, I do not believe there can or ever will be a cure to this illness.

If my BPDex was to ever gain true insight into her illness and the behaviours she has perpetrated against myself (and presumably the others before me which she has vilified) then she would be overcome with such shame and guilt that she would be sicker than she ever was before.

The best she can hope for is partial insight which will allow her to function into the future.

Why is this good for me? Because understanding that my ex can NEVER change helps in detaching from her.

Today is day 32 of NC since the final discard and I am struggling mightily with depression and to go more than a few minutes without her dominating my thoughts.

Mind you, I don't need any more logical reasons to detach from her, of those there are plenty. It is just that my emotions have nowhere near caught up with my mind. However, perhaps it will help to build up further reasoning, in case the highly unlikely scenario of her trying to recycle should occur.

[TheRose]

I fully understand what you are saying. I have been discarded 5 weeks ago, and today marks 29 days of NC. Instead of thinking about her less and less, I keep wondering more and more how she can just leave without looking back. Yes, yes, I know how BP's usually think or feel. I know it is the disorder. But still. It hurts to be discarded like that. As if I meant nothing more than a piece of toilet paper flushed down the toilet.

Hang in there though. People on here say it does get easier. I desperately need to believe it does. Because I find myself thinking about her almost every second of the day. Crazy. Its probably the opposite with her right. I doubt she ever thinks about me in a loving way. The sad thing is... .I want her to try and recycle. And I want to be able to say no to that. If she tried to recycle, I would at least feel worth more than a piece of paper. But it is not going to happen. Anyway, hang in there, you are not alone.

[enlighten me]

I too believe that at this moment in time BPD is incurable. I believe that it is a physical illness due to differences in the brain. Like yourself this thought process has helped me to detatch as is removes any hope of them suddenly getting better.

That said with neuro plasticity we see that the brain can physically change. Stroke victims can utilise unused parts of the brain to take on lost abilities such as speach and motor control. With genetic research genes can be targeted that may be in play with PDs. Hormones can be balanced producing reduced behaviour extremes. These things are probably a long way from providing effective help though as we understand more about the moon than we do the brain.

[snowmonkey]

  TheRose, I feel identically. But I do need more time before I'd wish any attempt at a recycle. I am working on myself (despite the depression) every single day. Although my thoughts are filled with her, I spend every single waking moment improving myself. If I'm not working out, then I'm learning French, If I'm not learning French, then I'm renovating my house, if I'm not doing that, then I'm learning to ride my motorbike or planning my 7 week vacation to Paris. I'm seeing a Psychologist and a Psychiatrist and eating well.

If she does attempt a recycle, I not only want to say NO, but I want to do it emphatically and for her to know that she has missed out. But right now, I'm not ready, I don't even know if I am strong enough to say NO, let alone make her regret her decisions and behaviour.

  enlighten me, I guess the thing I am getting at is that even if such a cure does come about, how will someone with BPD ever be able justify their past actions and take responsibility for all the truly disgusting things they have done? For them to get truly better, they would have to understand the wrongness of their past. This in itself would be enough to cause them such shame and guilt that they might very well be better off never having been 'cured' in the first place and to just go with their projections and believing in their fictional reality.

[enlighten me]

I agree snowmonkey and depending on the age of the person and the severity of their actions then the guilt and shame would take a lot of work to recover from.

To put a spin on it. What if a person had a brain tumour that caused them to behave inappropriately. Once cured they would feel guilt and shame but they had an excuse for their behaviour so the burden of shame would not be so great.

Let me ask. If BPD was proven to be something physical like in the case of a brain tunour would you forgive the pwBPD if they appologised for their behaviour?

[snowmonkey]

Hi Enlighten me,

You do raise an interesting question and I am tempted to sit on the fence, but I won't.

Almost all pwBPD do have periods of time of clarity, if they choose to ignore their thoughts during those times then they must take responsibility for their actions. But more than this;

They know many of their behaviours are wrong and hurtful, even when they have no insight and clarity. For example, if they truly think that cheating is ok, then why cover it up with lies? They know they have done terrible things to people and hence they will avoid them because of their shame. In short, there is an awareness with pwBPD and given this awareness exists I cannot forgive.

So, no, even if BPD is proven to be caused by a physical problem within the brain (and some studies do suggest physical differences between BPD brains and 'normal' brains) I can not forgive what has happened. Is not being able to forgive good or bad for me? Well, right now, I cannot tell, I suppose it might help protect me if the unexpected happens and she comes back... .although I doubt this very much as we are both very well aware of her disgusting behaviour.

[Sadly]

I learnt a great deal from going onto forums for people with BPD. I read so much from so many. There were those in different stages of treatment, mainly DBT and anxiety meds. A lot of the posts made me cry. I suppose it was there that they felt safe enough to describe their selves, the anonymity allowed it. Truly heartbreaking to hear about the deep dark emptiness inside themselves, the pain they felt when standing outside of themselves watching them destroy a person they loved and who they knew loved them. The fear that their whole lives and those of people they loved would be ruined. Some wanted or had tried to die, some explained how their NON also had problems, and why not, non of us are perfect. Some hadn't got that far and it was all our faults. Some had hope and others had non. Some decided when they felt stronger they would try and apologise to their ex's and some where sad that they would never be able to do that because what they had done was so evil. It was like a flip side of this forum. The sadness, the anger, the grief. It helped me to let go, I love my ex very much, I hate what he has done, he will never be in those boards, he is lost and I can't help him. Please read their stories, understand them, don't forget they are not lying, for once they don't need  to but whatever you do and however you feel don't join in, that is their safe place as this is ours. A recovering BPD girl once came here, her therapist advised it, she was lovely and was trying to explain herself and ask questions. She fled, heartbroken and angry because she was vilified and hung out to dry by angry people. We all need understanding and love, them and us. X

[enlighten me]

Let me ask another question. Have you ever behaved rashly and done something your not proud of? If so did you always own up?

Yes pwBPD have moments of clarity and its in those moments that the guilt and shame are apparent.

I have two uBPD exs and their cycles of behaviour are almost identicle. The only thing that seperates them is the timing of the cycles. I have witnessed and read many things that truely lead me to believe they are not fully in control.  Im no doctor or pschiatrist. Im an engineer by trade and when something isnt working how it should theres always a reason. A machine doesnt choose to act irratically and the human brain is a machine.

[Sadly]

Yes most definitely, I am sure we have all done things rashly and shame has not allowed us to own up to it or owned up and realised that some people didn't understand and though honesty may have been the right thing it caused us so much grief we wish we hadn't bothered.
I also am an engineer and see exactly what you are saying and I agree when a machine breaks down we fault test until the fault is found. Doctors and psychologists fault find our brains to find out what is wrong but the difference is the brain is the most complex piece of machinery ever produced and emotions are heavily involved otherwise we would all be robots.

[snowmonkey]

I have certainly acted rashly on occasion and not owned up. But my behaviours didn't involving sleeping with a guy and 8 of his friends or beating the carp out of the person who loved me most in the world.

And my rash behaviours and covering up were not daily occurrences.

I'm not an engineer, but I am a scientist. The brain is a machine, part of a much bigger machine. And the sole purpose of this machine? To simply procreate. And does the behaviour of a BPD help them procreate? In my opinion, yes, quite possibly. So... .Is there really a problem with their brains? Maybe they have just found their own little evolutionary niche which allows them to survive and perpetrate their genes?

[enlighten me]

I agree snowmonkey. For me BPD behaviour is what we see as  normal behaviour taken to an extreme. Our behaviour probably seems as alien to them as theirs is tous. The only difference is ours complies to the social norms.

Throughout history certain traits have thrived.  Strong rulers where most likely heavily influenced by ASPD traits. As you say BPD are very good at reproducing so it makes sense that they perpetuate the survival of the dissorder.

[Sadly]

Sorry, you said you were an engineer.
Listen, I know, have felt the disgust at their actions, have been hurt and betrayed to incomprehensible levels. Have sunk into a depression so deep I nearly ended my life. I am so sorry that all of us have to deal with this.
Regarding the difference between brain and machine there are varied and interesting debates to be found. Yes I know they have moments of clarity, they are human beings and feel shame. Their coping mechanisms differ from ours, why wouldn't they, it's their protection, what the emotive part of their brain puts into place for survival. i am not trying to make excuses but I am willing to read and understand their problems.
As for the procreation, sorry, don't agree. I don't believe that BPD sufferers deliberately choose to procreate in order to reproduce their own little frankensteins. They get pregnant or impregnate for the same reasons we do.

[enlighten me]

I have two points on what you said sadly.

My first is in evolution we ssee distinct behaviours that differ in the same species that enable them to continue. Why would this be different in humans. Im not saying BPD as a dissorder is purely there for reproduction. What you may have is behaviours that enable reproduction but are balanced with non desirable ones. Thus the non desirable ones are also passed down. Why cant this be the case? If male pattern baldness or eye colour can be passed down then anything is possible.

As for the brain it is a machine with a lot of inputs. If you simplified it to a car engine then you need fuel, air and a spark. These have to be added in a specific way for the engine to funtion smoothly. If any one is out of balance then the engine loses performance. You can have an engine thats not tuned but still runs. It may seem fine until too much is asked of it. The brain is like an engine but it has more than three inputs. You have a multitude of hormones and chemicals that must be balanced for correct operation. If these are out of balance then like the engine  it can seem to be functioning normally but when stressed it fails or operates irratically. Unlike the engine the brain can try to rebalance things. Hormones such as oxytocin, cortisol and setotonin may temporarily change things.

This is only my opinion based on what ive read and what I have witnessed. For me it makes sense. It is what has allowed me to move on and not be bothered by my exs behaviours.

[snowmonkey]

Dear sadly, I have read your posts and I truly have empathy for you. Likewise, the thought of ending this misery has crossed my mind many times. Even today, as I do everything humanly possible to fight off this depression, I still see no point and meaning to this life anymore. Like you, I feel terrible for everyone on this message board. I never understood the depths of depression that a person can reach. But this is why I can never forgive my ex, for although I played my part, I loved truly, honestly and with more of myself than I have ever given before. What some of my exes would have given to have been loved by me in that way! And despite how much I loved and cared for her, I was knowingly betrayed. And this brings me back to my original point... .My exBPD has disgraced herself in such a manner that she can never get better.

Dear enlighten me, we are on the same page. I like your car analogy! I too will have to reason along similar lines to move past this hurt. If I feel any more than I do now, I won't make it through. From an emotional point of view, I can't possibly comprehend what has been done to me over the past 3 and a half years. Maybe in time, a lot of time I will be able to allow myself to feel again, but for now I must apply logic, scientific reasoning and sheer force of will to move on.

[JQ]

Hello Snowmonkey,

I'm sorry to hear that you're currently in a bad place & having a difficult time with things. I see with about 60 post you've been here for a little while reading, learning. You have an interesting post here but i really wanted to address your depression and the anxiety that you might be continuing to have.

We've all been there, deep depression, the constant thoughts about our exBPD & all that come with that. I know you're a scientist and by definition apply logic to most everything ln life. You apply cause & affect methodology in your daily life from work to eating a piece of cake or pie. If I eat the pie it will taste good for only a few moments but I'll have to be in the gym for 6 hours to work it off. If my exBPD does "A" then my reactions will be "B" and as a result "C" will happen. They are severely broken people and all the Kings men & all the Kings horses couldn't put them back together again. We can talk about you wanting to "recycle" later ... .nothing good will come from that & I hope you will soon learn this. It helps with the healing process.

STOP APPLYING LOGIC TO YOUR exBPD~!  Their actions or inactions will NEVER be logical and I believe as a NON aka codependent it's one of the reasons we find it so hard to detach and move on with our lives. You will just spin your tires getting no where like me & others before me if you apply logic to this Cluster B mental illness. I would agree with you that BPD is beyond modern medical science to cure & the best anyone can hope for us some "Modification & some management" of this Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness. So lets move on to something YOU can control ... .YOU.

You have to know that this HAS been & will ALWAYS be about YOU. YOU need to get to a better place. YOU need to live & enjoy YOUR life! How do you get there? A LOT of work on yourself snow monkey.  You're seeing both a physiologist & a physiatrist & this is a very positive step in the right direction. It takes a great amount of strength to actually ask for help. So I really do commend you on this step. As you might have read on a couple of post, this is one of a few key's you have to do in order to get past your exBPD.

You need to do a deep dive on yourself to find out why you are the codependent that you are.You need to look to your past & learn so that you can look to  your future & grow. You might not like what you find but when you do you will find some of the answers you seek. This is another key to unlocking your path forward. IMHO it is the biggest key on your journey. You learn why you behave the way you do, why you are the NON, Sheriff with the shining badge, the Knight in Amor. You'll learn why you are attracted to those with BPD because I'm willing to wager that this isn't this isn't the first BPD in your life. Once you learn those things and a couple of more from your deep dive can you apply that "Logic" to yourself. You can then see the warning flags of a possible BPD r/s and move on. Trust me, once I learned all of this, I looked at possible partners in a different life but more importantly I applied my new life learning skills to myself. I avoided further BPD r/s and this was so worth the deep dive in the end.

So now lets work on your physical portion of YOU to help YOU get to a better place. You said you were trying to stay busy to avoid the thoughts of your exBPD and then falling into a depression. This is good, working on your house & learning French, learning to ride your motorcycle. All great things!  You're trying to take care of you. Do you use your French while working on your house? example, in French do you say out loud, "I need my hammer" or "Where did I put my bag of nails?".   Be sure you're eating right and stay away from junk food. I would suggest you reach out to an old friend that you haven't talked to for some time and catch up with them. You don't need to talk about your exBPD but just catch up on life. Go to the pub with a couple of buddies and get a good beer & watch the soccer game or sport of your choice. Get out for a walk in the morning ... .15 minutes in the morning as the sun comes up will do AMAZING things for you!

Which brings me to the next thing, enjoy the small things in life. No matter where you live in the world there is a place you can watch a sunrise in wonderment of it all. As I type this I am watching the sun come up over the mountains where I live. The dark night sky with pin pricks of light from billions of miles alway is awesome in itself. But it starts to give way to a dull yellow & orange glow far off in the distance. I start to see the outline of the mountains a little more as the sun seems coming up fast. I see the darkness & stars fade away now and whips of clouds start to turn pink as the blue sky in the background becomes more bluer. The outlines of the mountains more clear ... .I start to hear the birds sing and wake the rest of nature from the night of rest. I sip my coffee and take a moment in stare in amazement of the colors now. The whips of white clouds are all pink almost a red color. I can see the trees now more than I did just 5 minutes ago. I look in a different direction and see the sky as a darker purple in the west where the sun is just now starting to hit it. I see the orange of the sun break the mountain top & the rays like lasers pop over the tops to light up the valley. I take another sip of my coffee ... .sit back ... .take a deep breath ... .and I tell myself ... .what an amazing day this is going to be. It's a beautiful start to another day and I actually wonder how many people who have read this will do this tomorrow ... .or the day after.  It is an amazing thing to watch snow monkey that doesn't cost anything but pays me tenfold in appreciating the small things in life. I challenge you & everyone else to do this. It really does put a different perspective on life and you know those other things ... .they don't seem so important anymore. I watch the sun come up like this at least 3-4 days a week ... .honestly. It has really grounded me.

Getting to a better place from your experience with a BPD is going to be one of the biggest challenges you have ever faced BUT it's NOT impossible. I and others have been where you are & we're in a better place. We've been depressed, we've had many sleepless nights, we've lost or gain weight, we've not got out of bed, we've drank beyond what we should of, we've lost friends, we've lost family. But we survived and YOU will too.

This life you live ... .this is YOUR life! YOU only have to make yourself happy! YOU are responsible for YOURSELF!  Life is short ... .to short ... .we only get one so make it the best one that you can.  Come back here as often as you need too. The group is always going to be here for you to vent to, bounce ideas off of or just talk.

J

Here are a couple of things that have helped me through some difficult times ... .I gave both to a therapist friend of mine and she said she was going to try & incorporate them into her therapy when she could ... .

"Even the most confident & motivated people will need a helping hand at some point in their life."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQeMv5PXhg


"The most important life lesson I've ever learned is this, sometimes people leave, and sometimes unexpectedly, take a deep breath, morn the lost, and start living again."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIYlgrov3k

[snowmonkey]

I just wanted to say thank you for your thoughtful response JQ, I really appreciate it.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think I am anywhere near strong enough right now to do the deep dive that you talk about. Besides, I don't really think there is much there. I'm starting CBT next week with my psych which might uncover something.

For now though, I can't seem to get past the trauma of the last 3.5 years. My anxiety is overwhelming, the fatigue that accompanies my depression is exhausting and I repeat the same question over and over in my head; how could you do those things to me?

I'm not ready to break down the events of the past and see how I let myself get into this situation and I certainly don't need lessons about avoiding such relationships in the future. It will be years if not decades before I could consider loving anyone else.

I guess another thing I think about when I consider my role in this is; I gave far beyond what would 'normally' be expected of a partner in a relationship. Where is the fairness in asking me to analyse my part? Do we ask combat veterans what drove them to join the army when they come home with PTSD from war? Do we ask the firefighters who survived the events of 9/11 to do a deep dive into why the choose to be a firefighter? Both of these groups new far, far more than I that they had taken on lives and roles which would expose them to trauma and disaster. Me... .I met a beautiful woman whom I fell in love with and gave everything I possibly could to be with. I had no idea of the wounds she could cause me, yet I am to think deeply about my role in this. I don't know, it just seems that we are heaping more blame on ourselves when that is pretty much all we have experienced for the past few years.

My self esteem is at an all time low, I think further self-recriminations at this stage will only serve to drag me even lower.

Notwithstanding, I do appreciate your thoughts and if I can drag myself out of bed in the morning I will take your advice to watch a sunrise. I am certainly awake early enough, just can't seem to bring myself to push the blankets off and put one foot in front of another.

[heartandwhole]

I guess another thing I think about when I consider my role in this is; I gave far beyond what would 'normally' be expected of a partner in a relationship. Where is the fairness in asking me to analyse my part? Do we ask combat veterans what drove them to join the army when they come home with PTSD from war? Do we ask the firefighters who survived the events of 9/11 to do a deep dive into why the choose to be a firefighter? Both of these groups new far, far more than I that they had taken on lives and roles which would expose them to trauma and disaster. Me... .I met a beautiful woman whom I fell in love with and gave everything I possibly could to be with. I had no idea of the wounds she could cause me, yet I am to think deeply about my role in this. I don't know, it just seems that we are heaping more blame on ourselves when that is pretty much all we have experienced for the past few years.

Hi snowmonkey,

I really get what you are saying above, and can relate very much to your feelings of depression. I certainly would say that I fell into a depression after my breakup—to the point of not seeing the point of living anymore as well. Not that I would ever act on those thoughts. But a profound apathy seemed to take over my—up until then—usual joy and curiosity about life.

I think there is a time for digging deep and a time for lots of TLC. In the throes of grieving the loss I think a steady diet of compassion and self-care is in order. Then, when the time is right, I think digging deeply into our own reasons for acting as we did can be very liberating. In my view, it's important to do it as an exploration/investigation, to gather insights—not an excuse to blame ourselves, which most of us are already too good at.

Then our experiences with pwBPD can be reframed as giving our life meaning, rather than happiness, as Viktor Frankl might say.

My depression did lift, thankfully. I wish the same for you, and soon.  

heartandwhole

[Sadly]

Hi Snowmonkey
Good advice, never mind the deep dive just yet, you look after you. I do know what this depression is like, I too struggled to get up, sometimes if I managed to get up I thought, what's the point and went back to bed. There were days I didn't bathe and days I didn't eat or ate too much. I made myself go out to the shop only when I ran out of cat food ( not for me ) or cigarettes ( not for cat). Some days I would cry all day. I got antidepressants several times but couldn't find one that didn't make me feel ill though if I had I would have welcomed them. I was a total mess and felt totally worthless and pointless. I couldn't even summon up the urge to be angry. I read here constantly and tried to do as advised but quite often didn't. I had already left my job and never tried to get another, even the sensible little voice that popped up occasionally telling me "earn, pay rent, homeless beckons" got squashed cos I didn't care. It passed, slowly, gradually and if Icould tell you how I would in a heartbeat. All I can tell you is I love reading. When I wasn't here I read, novel after novel, pure escapism. Day after day, night after sleepless night I read. The real world started intruding and bit by bit I let it. And do you know what, I am not ashamed of the state I got into, nor am I casting blame around, it was what it was, end of. My life is brighter now, am looking for work and see a future and there will be one for you too I promise you.   xx

[snowmonkey]

Thank you heartandwhole and sadly.

I am so sorry that you have both been where I am now. But I am glad for you that you have (to some extent) recovered. You are both in my thoughts.

[Sadly]

And you my friend are in mine. If ever you want to when things get bad you can always pm me and I will be there for you just as everyone will be here for you.   x

[JQ]

Good Morning Snowmonkey,

I'm really feeling for you right now ... .and I would certainly agree with everything that heartandwhole has said. Please don't interpret my earlier post as something you need to do right away but as heartandwhole has pointed out, there is a time and place for it. I merely pointed out as they did that it is a important part of the exploration and explanation, gather insights. It isn't an excuse to blame ourselves. I would very much agree with H&W that it is a time for self-care and compassion.

The self-care portion of it is getting out of bed to watch that sunrise. You need to take care of you, it starts with baby steps, one baby step at a time. This is a process and it needs to start somewhere. If you're not getting enough sleep, might I suggest you look into taking Melatonin to help you. DON"T worry it's not a drug & in fact you can find it in your vitamin isle at the grocery store. I happen to take 20mg at night still to help me, but it's probably because I'm older and the body just doesn't produce enough of it. LOL  It's a natural hormone produce in your brain to naturally help you become drowsy & fall asleep. During time of high stress, "Like breaking up with a BPD", the body doesn't produce enough of it so you don't sleep. I was actually turned on to this by my flight surgeon when I was flying in the military. We would fly around the clock or cross a lot of time zone & the body clock would get screwed up. SO they told us about this. Trust me, I couldn't take an aspirin without the flight surgeon approval. In the beginning of my BPD recovery I was taking 60mgs just to get me to bed & close my eyes. Eventually with enough time I began to sleep & reduced it to 10-20mgs now just because I don't sleep well from my time in the military.

More self care, you're probably not eating right or as good as you can. Be sure to really put an effort into this because nothing good comes from junk food including your poo.     Now that is true but also suppose to bring a smile to your face with some light humor. which brings me to the next thing. Laugh, get out to a comedy club with a couple of buddies on a Friday or Saturday night. Watch some comedies on Netflix or the comedy channel.  Laughter helps more than you think.

Like I said, call an old friend that you might have lost touch with. This does so much for you, it's food for the soul.

Really try to get out for that walk or a bike ride or a run. Even if it's only for a mile at first, it only takes about 15 minutes to walk a mile on a bad day ... .remember baby steps. It'll really help with the stress by reducing some of the bad hormones and getting some of the good hormones running through out your body.

There are the references to the right of the page here ----->>>>

I would also suggest books that you can find at your local library like "The Human Magnet Syndrome", "Stop Walking on Eggshells", "I Love you, I Hate you, Don't leave me".

You're getting the professional help that all of would agree helps with the process too. This is an amazing step Snowmonkey and you should be proud of yourself as we all are.

As the group as said, this is a process to get to a better place. We've all had to walk this journey ... .because it was OUR journey to walk. Some of us took shorter times to get to the other side, some of us took longer, but Heart&Whole, Sadly, Enlighten me, have made it to the other side and WE know you will join us soon enough when you're ready. The journey you must walk will be filled with pot holes, bumps along the way, don't worry so was ours. But the group here help each and everyone one of us work through it. They held up a hand to help me, Sadly, EnlightenMe, and H&W up. They dusted us off and then we continued our own journey again. As will you

Take a deep breath and slowly let it out. Things are going to get better. Come here to chat about whatever you want, no one here will pass judgement on you. As Sadly as pointed out, we'll all be here for you.

You got this and we got you 

J

[Sadly]

Hi JQ
Lovely thoughtful post
Hi Snowmonkey
Hope you are feeling a bit better today. If you feel like it let us know what you have been doing and how you are feeling. Don't worry about what you write, be angry, sad, hopeful whatever, it helps to get it out sometimes and believe me no one minds and everyone cares  . X

[RDMercer55]

I've read about different treatments for BPD, however, I do not believe there can or ever will be a cure to this illness.  

My heart is really hurting for you snowmonkey and the others here who have posted or maybe just read through feeling the some of the same hopeless feelings... .

Thank you JQ and others for the very thoughtful and encouraging thoughts and reminders that can help anyone as they continue to self care and move forward with their life... .It's helped me!

As a part of my self care I have been going to an excellent therapist. His take on my wife's BPD is that "talk-therapy" does not work. DBT work can help reduce the effects of cycling just like medication can help too but in the end you're right it doesn't cure anyone of BPD... .

He did however mention that he is certified in a type of intensive therapy that is used with PTSD victims like soldiers. It is used with BPD patients to actually go back to the original trauma's the person has had. It was described to me like a set a train tracks. The tracks represent the highways that synapse messages take in our brains. The trauma in essence blows a gap in the train tracks preventing the correct messages from shaping our personality. This kind of trauma therapy goes back to the original trauma and works to clear the rubbish from the tracks and reestablish the correct path so the victim can get healing. He says that it is MAJOR MAJOR work and that while it has proven successful in helping BPD's, the fact that it is such MAJOR work and because of the diminished awareness of BPD's, it is difficult for them to see the work process through.

On the flip side, as dark as some days may seem or feel, like you I do want help and recovery. I have to believe that WILL account for something in our lives and it gives me hope to continue to live, breath and heal.

Only good thoughts for you all... .

[JQ]

Hi Group

  Sadly,   thank you for the kind words. Self care is so very important in the process & for us NON aka Codependents it is a VERY difficult thing to learn. "To take care of ourselves first."  I go back to the 51% rule here.

  RD,   the type of therapy you speak of for PTSD in the military is called EMDR. I have been in this therapy for my PTSD while i was in the military. I can speak first hand experience that this does work in the horrific trauma suffers for several different reasons. It has been used in combat related PTSD, trauma & PTSD as a result of rape, or any other trauma related event in one's life that could cause PTSD. My doc told me that they had treated people in special forces to people who wear stars on their collar. They have worked with men & women. You are VERY correct in that it is a VERY difficult process to go through even for the most harden combat vet.

But I will tell you that the process works. From what my doc told me it works in about 94-96% of the cases that they treat as a department. I can speak of my events without falling apart & "loosing" it. I took a refresher after my BPDgf experience and I'm here to tell you that IT DOES WORK!  So yes I would recommend EMDR therapy for any NON who is still having a difficult time with their break up from their respective exBPD.  Be sure that they are not only certified to conduct such therapy but have good experience with it. It will be the most traumatic time you will experience and the process is highly stressful. In fact not only myself but another buddy who suffered from PTSD from and IED incident went through EMDR and it saved his life ... .literally. But they had to take both of us who were in highly stressful jobs to not so stressful jobs due to the treatment. Again, I can personally recommend it because it works.

As far as EMDR working on someone who has BPD, it would be interesting to see the process results. BPD is not only a "software" problem but it is a "Hardware" problem. There are MRI studies to show the the neuro highway isn't connected in the brain & certain parts of the brain have been retarded in growth. BPD is a very complex & serious Cluster B Mental illness. And as it's been pointed out, you can "Manage" the mental illness to a certain degree but currently there is no cure.

ON a lighter note ... .it would be nice to know if anyone has woking up before the sun & had a cup of coffee, tea, Pepsi while watching the sun come up?  No two are ever the same & it is truly keeping me grounded as to what is really important in life.

Keep breathing Snow Monkey and others. It does get better, a lot of us here are proof of that.  

J

[RDMercer55]

  JQ 

JQ, thank you for the response... .THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE! Wow I am so happy for you and any of your buddies that can find help through EMDR... .I have been thinking about it for myself at some point as well but I will continue to look into it. Your post was very helpful and had several great insights.

As your sunrise question. Yes I do from time to time. Strangely I never used to do this before or derived as much pleasure from it as I do now... .There is a calming and grounding effect, so you're right about that... .also, I've never been someone to catch a sunset or a sky lit up and take a picture of it... .But now I do! I just seem to appreciate little things that I was too busy to notice before... .Enjoying the small things really gives significance and meaning back into my existence and purpose... .Good topic

[Kelli Cornett]

There are no guarantees in life. Who knows what will happen to your ex. Something you will have to face reality of.

[valet]

Interesting discussion so far.  

I understand that this might be a means to closure for you, but it also shuts down a large part of what being empathetic and compassionate should be. I get the feelings. We want to be able to say that when all is said and done that we had no control. But it is scapegoating our past partners to believe something that ultimately doesn't have to effect us so drastically.

You can work through the grey area of what the disorder implies—you can move on. With a rigid mentality like 'it has to be incurable', you put yourself at risk for losing an opportunity to see what exactly got you into the situation you found yourself in. In other words, you stay the same. Give yourself this chance to grow. You deserve it.

[Skip]

Well said, Valet.

[enlighten me]

I have to disagree valet. For me thinking that BPD is incurable (at this moment in time) has made me more empathic. My exs are no longer nasty pieces of work that use and abuse people. They to me are people who can be good but are driven to do bad things. I dont hate them, I dont have false hope that they will suddenly change, Ihave been able to detatch in a healthier way. Going nc and cutting them out may bea means to an end but does it solve anything? With greater understanding comes greater empathy.

Like I said at the begining we all have our own processes and for me I believe this mindset has worked best. Also bear in mind a lot of us have children with our exs so cant just shut the door on the past.

[snowmonkey]

Thanks for everybody's thoughts. I really appreciate that so many people have engaged in the discussion and have my back. A couple of things;

The original title of my post was "IMO BPD is incurable", it was changed by a mod. And I truly believe this (at least for those pwBPD that have done disgraceful things to other people). If they ever come to be cured and understand that they have ruined other people's lives through their behaviour then they would now have this realisation to deal with.

This doesn't change my ability to feel empathy for them, rather it increases my ability. Knowing they have an incurable illness rather than they being temporarily vile people gives me more empathy. That said, I could never forgive my ex.

This doesn't hinder my progress to getting better, nor to one day exploring my role in the relationship. What it does, is allow me to give up my hope that she could come back and we could make it as a couple. It is not about what her future holds, it is about the understanding that as she will never be better, we have no future together.