Children of pwBPD.. chronic depression?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

So while my mother has some strong BPD and NPD traits, I believe my aunt may be even higher up on the spectrum.  My cousin is struggling and has been struggling with chronic depression. She no longer has a life. She is now on leave from work and wants to sleep all day.  She lives in a different state than me though and I don't know what to do.  She has stopped coming out from to family events. She has been in therapy for several years now and things seem to be getting worse not better.  :)oes anyone have any advice on what to do? This is slowly slowly getting to be really bad.  Is chronic depression a symptom of children of pwBPD? What can be done to help?

[caughtnreleased]

So while my mother has some strong BPD and NPD traits, I believe my aunt may be even higher up on the spectrum.  My cousin is struggling and has been struggling with chronic depression. She no longer has a life. She is now on leave from work and wants to sleep all day.  She lives in a different state than me though and I don't know what to do.  She has stopped coming out from to family events. She has been in therapy for several years now and things seem to be getting worse not better.  :)oes anyone have any advice on what to do? This is slowly slowly getting to be really bad.  Is chronic depression a symptom of children of pwBPD? What can be done to help?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey caughtnreleased:    

I'm so sorry about your cousin.  Does she live close to any family members?

People with depression don't necessarily have BPD, but depression and anxiety disorders are rather common with people with BPD.  BPD can be genetic and/or environmental.  Chronic mood disorders, as in chronic depression, tend to be genetic. 

Sometimes, I think that taking too much time off work, and not having something to make you get up and moving can be a mistake.  There is something to be said for, "faking it until you make it".

As we get older, sometimes the depression can get worse and a hormonal imbalance can sometimes be in play.  Is your cousin seeing a psychiatrist along with her therapist?  Do you know if she is on meds for depression?  If she is on meds, perhaps she need a different med to take?

Getting regular exercise is helpful. Keeping her busy with a hobby can be beneficial. Got to get her out of bed. Spending too much time in bed can tend to perpetuate depression. Does she have a family member or friend who can help get her up and moving?

[caughtnreleased]

Unfortunately, from what I know (Which is only from her mother who tells my mother) is that she is extremely isolated, has very few friends, if any.  Yes she is seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist, although I don't know at all if she is on meds.  I am not sure if the medical system is serving her well... .she seems to be getting worse.  She recently told her mother that she (herself not her mother) pollutes the earth. She does not use email, nor does she have a computer. She has major phobias about electronic equipment and no longer uses a phone (I remember her mother telling me that watches cause cancer and mess up your system once).  Her mother always said she didn't have the physical stamina to exercise, so she never exercised.  In fact she never did anything because her mother always said she didn't have the stamina, the capacity, the etc... .My other cousin also has major mental health issues and has been institutionalized. It appears he too suffered emotional abuse from his mother. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi caughtnreleased:   

  Yes she is seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist, although I don't know at all if she is on meds.

If she is seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist, she is likely receiving drugs.  When someone sees both, the psychiatrist visit is generally focused more on fine tuning meds (med changes and/or dosage) in accordance with symptoms.  The psychologist visits would be focused on the behavioral issues.

  I am not sure if the medical system is serving her well... .she seems to be getting worse.  She recently told her mother that she (herself not her mother) pollutes the earth. She does not use email, nor does she have a computer. She has major phobias about electronic equipment and no longer uses a phone (I remember her mother telling me that watches cause cancer and mess up your system once).  Her mother always said she didn't have the physical stamina to exercise, so she never exercised.    In fact she never did anything because her mother always said she didn't have the stamina, the capacity, the etc... .

Sounds like there is a lot more going on than depression.  I'm wondering if mom has conditioned her daughter to have her phobias?  Unless your cousin has some diagnosed condition/illness that prevents her from walking, I would wonder about a general statement that your cousin doesn't have the stamina or capacity to even go for a walk.

Some people with BPD exhibit Munchausen by Proxy.  I'm wondering if this could have happened to some degree with your cousin.  You might want to Google it and read about it. 

My other cousin also has major mental health issues and has been institutionalized. It appears he too suffered emotional abuse from his mother. 

There must be something major going on with your male cousin as well.   Do you know what his diagnosis is?  I'm thinking that there is some genetic component in play here, along with emotional abuse.  It is likely that all essential information has not been shared with you.  Has your aunt received any type of treatment for any mental illness?

Sadly, I think the issues with your cousins are beyond anything you may be able to help with.  If your female cousin doesn't use the phone, it must be hard to communicate with her.  Were you ever close with her?  It has to be hard to function in the world today if you won't use a phone or computer.  That would make someone unemployable and really cut off from the world.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi Naughty Nibbler,

Thanks for your messages. They are very helpful!

Sounds like there is a lot more going on than depression.  I'm wondering if mom has conditioned her daughter to have her phobias?  Unless your cousin has some diagnosed condition/illness that prevents her from walking, I would wonder about a general statement that your cousin doesn't have the stamina or capacity to even go for a walk.

Some people with BPD exhibit Munchausen by Proxy.  I'm wondering if this could have happened to some degree with your cousin.  You might want to Google it and read about it. 

I think definitely my cousin has inherited my Aunts phobias.  She was a relatively healthy child.  She was always on the thin side, and at some point we did suspect she had an eating disorder because she would leave the table immediately after ingesting even the smallest amount of food. 

Munchausen by Proxy sounds terrifying. I'm not sure if this is it.
 

There must be something major going on with your male cousin as well.   :)o you know what his diagnosis is?  I'm thinking that there is some genetic component in play here, along with emotional abuse.  It is likely that all essential information has not been shared with you.  Has your aunt received any type of treatment for any mental illness?

Sadly, I think the issues with your cousins are beyond anything you may be able to help with.  If your female cousin doesn't use the phone, it must be hard to communicate with her.  Were you ever close with her?  It has to be hard to function in the world today if you won't use a phone or computer.  That would make someone unemployable and really cut off from the world.

My male cousin we believe has aspergers/autism, but his mother and father never wanted to recognize that there was anything different about him, so they denied it always and tried to force him to live a "normal" life. He now has been completely unable to adapt and has major fits of rage that can sometimes turn violent which is why he has been institutionalized.

As for my female cousin, yes we did use to be close in that we spent many moments of our childhood together. She used to be "normal" and happy until her late twenties when she started to withdraw.  She indeed has struggled enormously with employment. I spoke to her on the phone this summer, but other times i have tried calling her and I leave a message (she does have a really old school phone that she doesn't seem to use) but she does not call me back.  Yes this makes it extremely difficult.  I really don't know what to do, but I feel that as someone who knows this family for what it is (really screwed up) I might be able to help her in some way. She refuses to leave her town because she says she doesn't want to put any distance between herself and her therapist... .I am worried that she may have chosen a therapist that may not necessarily be helping her situation.  But you are also right in that 99% of the information I receive on her is from her mother.  Her mother seems to mostly feel sorry for herself that her children are in such bad state and don't want to talk to her much.

[Naughty Nibbler]

caughtnreleased:

Maybe you could try to communicate with your cousin via regular mail?  Perhaps that could lead to her placing a phone call to you.   You may want to visit her, when possible?  I'd suggest that she come visit you, but that might be tough for her.  It might be interesting to see how you cousin would do away from her mother.  Has she ever lived on her own?

[caughtnreleased]

It has been four years I think that she no longer lives with her mother. She rents a room in someone's house.  I think it's much too far and expensive for her to come visit me unfortunately.  It just seems that it's very hard to get through to her and her situation is getting much worse... .but I will give it a shot anyway.  thank you.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Caughtnreleased, 

Sure sounds like a lot is going on with your cousin. It is so unsettling when a loved one has depression, and she sounds like she is struggling with it a lot. How wonderful that you are so concerned and caring for her. Kudos to you, and an extra hug for all the hurt that your heart feels for her, especially right now.   It's also extremely vital that your cousin is in T. I am so glad that she is no longer living with her mom. Do you feel that her move away from her mom is causing some depression as well, such as is your cousin feeling guilty for leaving?

I live with 2 family members who struggle with depression. Their depression is likely chemically related, but at times the aspect of situational depression also comes into play. Depression is such a complex issue, and of course we can only make suggestions to you that can help you be supportive of your cousin. Regular attempts at contact with her are good, and it sounds as if you are doing that. Does she like to read? If so, maybe you can research some books that might encourage her.

Here is some interesting information from Pete Walker's site about depression. He presents some very intriguing ideas that tend to challenge some aspects of depression which many of us adopt.

The normalcy of depression
We live in a culture that judges fear as despicable, and depression as an unpatriotic violation of the "pursuit of happiness". Taboos about depression even emanate from the psychological establishment, where some schools strip it of its status as a legitimate emotion - dismissing it simplistically as mere negative thinking, or as a dysfunctional state that results from the repression of less taboo emotions like sadness and anger. I believe we must learn to distinguish depressed thinking - which can be eliminated - from depressed feelings - which must sometimes be felt. Occasional feelings of enervation and anhedonia are normal and existential - part of the admission price to life. Moreover, depression is sometimes an invaluable harbinger of the need to slow down, to drop interiorly into a place that at least allows us to restore and recharge, and at best unfolds into our deepest intuitiveness. One recurring gift that typically comes cloaked in depression is an invitation to grow that necessitates relinquishing a formerly treasured job or relationship that has now become obsolete or moribund. Overreaction to depression essentially reinforces learned toxic shame. It reinforces the individual's notion that, when depressed, he is unworthy, defective and unlovable. Sadly this typically drives him deeper into abandonment-exacerbating isolation. Deep level recovery from childhood trauma requires a normalization of depression, a renunciation of the habit of reflexively reacting to it. Central to this is the development of a capacity to stay in one's body, to stay fully present to all internal experience, to stay acceptingly open to one's emotional, visceral and somatic experiences without 4F acting out. Renouncing this kind of self-abandonment is a journey that often feels frustratingly Sisyphean. It is a labor of self-love and a self-nurturing process of the highest order, but it can feel like an ordeal replete with unspectacular redundancy - with countless, menial experiences of noticing, naming and disidentifying from the unhelpful internal overreactions that depression triggers in us.

There are reasons why any of us struggle with depression, and I know I have struggled some in the past, especially before I began T. The issues connected to my FOO lay buried for so long in my mind, and it was the sign of depression setting in that I could not shake and the nightmares that finally pushed me to seek help. Perhaps your cousin has many of these same issues or something similar going on, and maybe she has a uBPDm. Do you think your aunt is a borderline?

Keep hanging in there. Each of us should be so fortunate to have a loving and caring person in their life as you are with your cousin.

 
Wools
 

[caughtnreleased]

Hi Wools! Thank you so much for your help and for that information about depression. 
I certainly suspect that my aunt is uBPD which is why I was wondering how common it is for children of pwBPD to suffer chronic depression.

My own mother has very strong BPD/NPD traits, but she is high functioning.  My aunt does not seem to be as high functioning - although she has managed to find a way to keep going the way she does, although it seems her children are the ones who have taken the brunt of her illnes.  She constantly has ailments and supposed "physical" problems which prevents her from doing many thing in life (travelling, leaving her home, etc.) I believe she projected a lot of these feelings on her children.  She raged at her children, although she also has some strong waif-ish qualities.

Thank you for your suggestion about books as well. I was thinking exactly that I would like to send her some books.  I personally have read a great deal of books which deal with borderline parents although I don't know to what degree my cousin is dealing with her issues.  I know that she has blamed her mother in the past for some of her problems, and recently (after taking an hour walk around the block during a family get together) had an outburst about how toxic the family was.  While I know I personally have struggled with depression at times, I have been able to overcome and deal with it, so I have not really informed myself about it.  For me it was more about dealing with mood swings - sadness and anger mostly.  I think sometimes anger protects us from debilitating depression.  One book that I thought I might send her is Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach. Have you heard about this? I personally haven't read it but I've heard it's very good.  I just finished reading Eckhart Tolle's book a new earth - perhaps this would be a good one to send my cousin as it comes from someone who was incredibly depressed and overcame that depression? This could help her maybe? I just don't know what her openness is to reading this, and what kind of material would help someone who has struggled with extremely low self esteem and chronic depression. But she does like to read I know that.  I will start to communicate with her through regular mail I think... .it may be simpler. Thanks again Woolspinner.