Do you need to belong ?

[HappyChappy]

I found this realisation very helpful in my recovery. In that we all need to belong. The article below defines belonging as frequent positive interactions. So hard to do with a BPD. If someone is using narcisstic manipulation on you, then you’re more likely dependent than belonging.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-the-name-love/201403/why-we-all-need-belong-someone

So my question to you is, did you feel that you belonged in your BPD family dynamic ?
I note that throughout my life I have had very strong friendships, that gave me a sense of belonging.  But I always wondered why friends would do almost anything for me, but my FOO didn’t. What have been your experiences of belonging inside and outside of a BPD  family ?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi HappyChappy!

This is such a great topic to explore.  I believe that the word 'belonging' is so powerful to us emotionally. As survivors of a parent with BPD, most if not all of us struggled to find any sense of belonging anywhere. In my own life, I know I constantly struggled and internally fought to find that place. I think that because we were not accepted as we were, little children who had needs to be loved and cared for, our tendencies were to work harder to do all we could to belong. Thankfully there were times when I had friends or a few extended family members that caused me to feel a measure of belonging, but overall the deep areas of my heart struggled to open up and receive that acceptance and belonging because by that time, I felt the shame of being unworthy of belonging. Perhaps you can relate.

Now because of T, I have times, much more often, when I sense this subtle inkling creeping over me when I am with my closest friends or family, and it says, "You are a part of this family." I literally stop mentally when I see it, and I never cease to be amazed. 

 
Wools

[Turkish]

I tried to attach or seek out families,  to belong to a system I didn't have as the latchkey kid of a single mother.  I don't think I was looking for a replacement mother (as in a way my mother accused me of one), and definitely not a father I never had.  But rather misty just being part of a family... .unit. To fill what I felt was missing.  It wasn't or isn't what I think it's the emptiness that a pwBPD might feel (which I still struggle to comprehend), but rather to attach to be a part of what I  felt missing, and felt robbed of. 

[Forever to Roam]

I keenly remember that feeling as a child of not belonging, kind of associated with feeling disconnected from things. I suppose I did belong in a sense - as my mother's possession. It didn't help that my mother had sabotaged any friendships I tried to have, and I never quite belonged in our church community - no matter how hard I tried. I take it back - there was one 'place' I kind-of felt I belonged - as my siblings' older sister. I remember trying to create that feeling of belonging for my sisters while they were young, though I don't really think I succeeded (pretty much having no idea what belonging actually felt like from my life to that point).

Like Wools, I was surprised and amazed when I started to feel I belonged - to a group of friends who were my husband's friends from high school. It's just... .Wow... . 

[Kwamina]

Hi HappyChappy

Thanks for starting this thread and sharing that very interesting article

Also great to see Forever to Roam here because I was going to say that our friend Forever to Roam probably says it best with her signature: Always and always, Forever to roam, Never to settle, No place called home.

To answer your question, for me the answer is a mixture of yes and no. No, I did not like the way the situation at home made me feel and I clearly remember thinking to myself when I was about 9 or 10 years old that I no longer wanted to live at home, that feeling never left me. At the same time the answer is yes because as unpleasant and confusing as things were, it was still all I knew. In spite of everything it was still my family. There were good times too, though they never really felt that good because I knew they would not last. I still hoped they would last though... .sometimes as a child all you have is hope to help you get through.

I feel like a traveler, always searching for that place to belong. Yet also always feeling like because of my particular experience with BPD family-members, I might never truly belong anywhere. Participating on this board has given me a sense of belonging though

There are many interesting points in the article, this is something that stood out to me:
"Baumeister and Leary claim that human beings are "naturally driven toward establishing and sustaining belongingness." Hence, "people should generally be at least as reluctant to break social bonds as they are eager to form them in the first place." They further argue that in many cases, people are reluctant to dissolve even destructive relationships. The need to belong goes beyond the need for superficial social ties or sexual interactions; it is a need for meaningful, profound bonding. A sense of belongingness is crucial to our well-being."

This shows how strong the need to belong is and how it might lead you to remain in unhealthy and abusive relationships, just to have some sense of belonging. This also highlights the dangers of how growing up in an environment with BPD family-members, can potentially set us up for not only engaging but also remaining in unhealthy and abusive relationships in our adult life.

[HappyChappy]

So our straw poll suggests we children of BPD do tend to struggle with belonging. But it is still important for our soles.

... .but overall the deep areas of my heart struggled to open up and receive that acceptance and belonging because by that time, I felt the shame of being unworthy of belonging. Perhaps you can relate.

I can totally relate Wools, you make an eloquent point.

I tried to attach or seek out families,  to belong to a system... .But rather misty just being part of a family... .unit.

That hits a cord Turk. I remember feeling  part of my friends families. Sitting at their dinner table wondering why their mom seamed keener to have me their than my own BPD did. Seeing there didn't need to be tension at the table, that you could relax.

It didn't help that my mother had sabotaged any friendships I tried to have, and I never quite belonged in our church community - no matter how hard I tried.

Ain't that the truth FTR. The BPD tendency to isolate us, makes it so much harder to belong somewhere else, which I guess is why they do it.

I feel like a traveler, always searching for that place to belong... .This also highlights the dangers of how growing up in an environment with BPD family-members, can potentially set us up for not only engaging but also remaining in unhealthy and abusive relationships in our adult life.

I remeber reading about people who contiualy run away from thinds are running away from some unresolved issues in their past. So by understanding our BPD issues, we can stop running away, in theory.

Kwamina you also make a good point about remaining in unhealthy relationships, very pertinent. Brings us back to the battered wife example. So belong is healthy for the sole. Thanks for the responces, they make me feel like I belong   
I'd be interested to know of other examples of belonging.

[Notwendy]

I didn't feel I belonged in my family. I was the black child.

I am part of several groups- religion, work, family, but I don't seem to align as closely as some of my friends do.

Growing up, I preferred to have guy buddies more than girls as friends. Now that we are all adults, and married, that kind of friendship isn't as acceptable. It would be odd. But I think there is something about my relationship with my mother that leads me to keep women friends at a distance. I am a loyal and kind friend, but I don't feel comfortable getting too close. I think I could "belong" to a group- but this distance is something I choose to keep somehow.

[Sunfl0wer]

I like the idea of discussing belonging because it seems to get to the heart of where many difficulties I have and have had stem from.

Nope, never felt I belonged and was sent pretty clear messages that I would never.
The result: I grew up having unfulfilled attachment desires, felt confused and insecure on many levels.
Another result: I was unable to form a strong identity based on being able to relate to them, therefore I needed to look elsewhere.

Most of this sense of not belonging was synonymous with being raised in an invalidating enviornment. 

I think leaving home, as an adult, having never had my natural attachment desires met, caused me to seek what appeared to be a validating enviornment.  After thinking that is what I found, attached myself strongly, and felt letting go would lead to personal devastation, aka trauma bond.

However, what I did get out of these misplaced attachment fulfillments was that I was able to develop within me a sense of myself.  I was able to experience a strong bond, a milestone not accomplished in my infancy, although a disorganized or anxious one, still a bond that was more workable than none.  I do believe I learned and developed certain aspects of myself in these abusive relationships.  Then when they ended, and my next abusive relationship began, and I had at first, the illusion of secure attachment and acceptance, the illusion did allow me to open up and again grow aspects of myself and my understanding.

[HappyChappy]

I didn't feel I belonged in my family. I was the black child.

I am part of several groups- religion, work, family, but I don't seem to align as closely as some of my friends do.

Notwendy, I was also the black sheep in the triangulation model, but I know my siblings (golden child etc... ) didn't feel they belonged either. But you're right a BPD ensures none of us belong, by setting us against each other, by destroying trust within the group. I also think church is a great way to heal those bones.  I spoke to my vicar about BPD and he was surprisingly aware.  He showed me a passage about being aware of people with negative child like behaviour, about the charisma of the devil etc... .
You say you chose to keep a distance, do you ever feel like letting your guard down ?

I like the idea of discussing belonging because it seems to get to the heart of where many difficulties I have and have had stem from.

... .I do believe I learned and developed certain aspects of myself in these abusive relationships.  Then when they ended, and my next abusive relationship began... .

Sunfl0wer, You mentioned learning though abusive relationships, have managed to avoid abusive relationships resent times ?

[Sunfl0wer]

Sunfl0wer, You mentioned learning though abusive relationships, have managed to avoid abusive relationships resent times ?

Humm, my words above make it look as though I am promoting abusive relationships. (My phrasing lacks clarity)

Just want to clarify... .
I was trying to express the importance of attachment/belonging.  I feel we need this sense of belonging or attachment to grow key features of ourselves... .So important that if we cannot actually have a non abusive attachment fulfilled, we may in our minds, create the delusion of one via abusive/any relationships thus the "popularity" of a trauma bond.  I am trying to say that the driving force in those in abusive dynamics likely is this primitive desire for belonging, a place to have our attachment desires fulfilled.  It reminds me of Craig Childress on parental alienation.  Kids have an innate drive to bond for reasons of safety and even if the parent is abusive, will be driven to bond with that parent anyway because out in the wild, being with a familiar one, is "safer" than one who has no pact to associate with.

So yes... .
I had huge growth during abusive relationships, in many respects. 
The relationships were not all bad.  They served their place in my life.
Part of my mind was able to compartmentalize to receive the benefits of a bond/any bond.  (I was not able to bond at home... .like most, even abused kids often bond hoping for the parent to be good again, or for them to have the good parts)

I am not promoting abusive dynamics.
Just stating that I do feel we are driven by this need to bond or need to belong because whether abusive or not, being able to belong/ or even having an illusion of belonging, makes other growth possible.

I think times that I felt I belonged, were times I was able to explore areas of my Self.

[Harri]

Hi Happy C and everyone!

I both did and did not feel like I belonged in my family.  I was told I did, that I was given to them, or more specifically, that I was given to my mother.  I believed it but reluctantly.  I did not want to belong because belonging meant accepting the unacceptable.  I used to pretend I was adopted.

I did and still do live in worlds I create in my head.  Worlds that want me and are filled with people who know me and my history and want me to be with them in spite of knowing all that. 

I feel that my history sets me apart, both here on the board and in the real world.  I am careful of when I share certain aspects of my life here, always concerned it will push people away or that my history will be used either as a weapon against me or to minimize and deny the reality of anothers circumstance.  I almost never talk about it in real life.  I no longer need other people to understand or get it so I do not share for validation and the people I do know are horrified.  It is weird when even my funny stories cause a friends eyes to fill with tears or to look away.  a friend once asked what was wrong with me to laugh at such a thing and I was again hit with the reality that I do not fit and I do not belong.

My ex and I bonded over a shared history of dysfunction and of course our relationship was one of dysfunction.  The sense of belonging I felt with him was wonderful and warm, but I realize now it was mostly because it was easy.  I did not have to explain.  I did not have to work at being vulnerable and open about my past.  I felt relieved that I was with him.  It was an illusion born of my need to belong and be loved.  I tried to cheat my way into a relationship that would provide me with what I still long for.

so, do I need to belong?  Yes, but I don't.  I am working on belonging with me.  That will be enough.

[Moselle]

Great topic to explore!

My sense of belonging is only being developed now. I think when we start to put in boundaries we define more accurately who we are, and we gravitate towards a tribe of like minded individuals on a similar path.

For the fist time in my life I do not see my FOO as part of my tribe and I am selective about who I open up to. Unsafe people get 'gray rock' treatment or a wide berth. I seek out people who I want in my tribe, and consciously work on building those relationships. It's usually quite easy, as there seems to be lots in common.

[HappyChappy]

Wow Harri,

what a great response. With these worlds you invent in your head, maybe you’ve got a book or two in you ?

I used to pretend I was adopted.

I also totally believed this. My friends found it hard to believe I was related to my BPD and NPD.

I think most on here can relate to concerns about sharing our past, as you put it "always concerned it will push people away or that my history will be used either as a weapon against me" This is totally understandable in that BPD use this information against us all the time. But as this is a BPD free area, do you not feel just a little, wafer thin amount of belonging to the bpdfamily ? I’ve always see you as part of the family, we have posted the same amount and are part of the Elite Snoopy Posters group (ESP).

I think when we start to put in boundaries we define more accurately who we are, and we gravitate towards a tribe of like minded individuals on a similar path.

Good point, well made Moselle. How did you get to the point of not seeing your FOO as in your tribe. Sounds a sensible place to get to, but how did you ?

[Notwendy]

Happy Chappy-

You ask if I ever feel like letting my guard down?

That is a good question. I have some old friends from childhood and with them, the guard isn't there. I attribute that to the idea that, I met them when I was still vulnerable- as a child- and so the guard was not there in the first place.

But unguarded feels too vulnerable for me now, and I wonder if I ever will feel like letting it down. I am not sure I can.

I used to be more trusting than I am now, but having experienced the people closest to me having broken that trust, I don't know if I can trust someone like that. I don't know if this is becoming more mature- having boundaries ( where I didn't before) or being excessively guarded.

I do have boundaries with my old friends. We are all married now, with kids, and so a friendship includes respect for their time, their marriages. But on the occasions that we do get together, I am not afraid to be myself.

But I also wonder if what feels like being guarded now is normal, and what felt normal to me as a child was actually enmeshment ( as is the case in my FOO).

 

[Moselle]

Good point, well made Moselle. How did you get to the point of not seeing your FOO as in your tribe. Sounds a sensible place to get to, but how did you ?

It was actually difficult for me to realise that my childhood was dysfunctional. Someone had to point it out to me and even then I made excuses for my parents.

It's been a process of understanding that the way my parents behaved and behave is not what I want for myself. My personal growth has meant that I have Iittle in common with them anymore. They like drama, I don't. They have low EQ. I'm working hard at improving mine. I feel like the adult there when I am their son. I don't look to them for advice and comfort. This was the big realisation, that I do not and have never have gone to them for advice and just to chat Why is that? - I would be shamed by them if I did, and I wouldn't trust their advice anyway. This must have been something I learned as a little boy.

Its sad. I mourn for my inner child who had to go through that s#!t. Besides sharing blood, we aren't alike. I'm also angry. I rebel now which is healthier that the compliant child I was. I hope to one day be authentic, and neither rebellious or compliant.

.

[Harri]

Happy C, about writing a book!  Not the great american novel by any means, but I think I could come up with something if I wanted to.  At least sometimes I think I could but that would mean letting people in and opening my safe place to others.  Not sure I want to go there.  The people in my head keep me safe but they also keep me isolated.  Right now, I want to hold on to that and not let go.  That is another thread tho. 

And yes, there is a small part of me that feels like I fit in and belong here.  Sometimes I feel 100% like I fit in here, but it doesn't last (like others here have already talked about).  I feel it when people call me on it, like you did, so thanks for that poke.  I keep forgetting that I am not the person I was taught I was, nor the person I believed I was for so long.  It is just going to take a while longer to figure out just who I am and how I do or can fit in when i am ready.

Love this question HappyC and the responses from everyone.  Lots to think about.  I realize now that what I was thinking was love is actually a sense of belonging.  That is what I want and I know it has to come from within first.  I'll get there.

[HappyChappy]

I used to be more trusting than I am now, but having experienced the people closest to me having broken that trust, I don't know if I can trust someone like that. I don't know if this is becoming more mature- having boundaries ( where I didn't before) or being excessively guarded.

Hi Notwendy, you raise a great point, that got me thinking. I’m probably the other way, in that I socialise easily but have been ripped off a couple of times by confidence tricksters (who I know now were probably NPD) one being my brother. I have had very good friends that never let me down. Where your early friendships like that ?

I guess we just need to keep centring ourselves on that topic. But ironically, we need to trust someone view to become centred. I asked a friend about his the other day and he said  “You‘ve got to trust someone.”

So notwendy, is it just a case that by having good boundaries, we have enough protection to trust people?  I feel it is the NPD/BPD that have done me the most damage, so if I protect against them, the remaining risk is worth it for the benefit of friendship. What do you think ?

Besides sharing blood, we aren't alike. I'm also angry. I rebel now which is healthier that the compliant child I was. I hope to one day be authentic, and neither rebellious or compliant.

Hi Mossell,  Your recovery sounds quiet advanced. I’m working towards that, I tell myself blood doesn’t matter and I don’t care about their opinion, but I’m still not there. I still rebel than I would like. Any tips ? 

Sometimes I feel 100% like I fit in here, but it doesn't last

Hi Harri,If belonging is about regular positive experiences, I noticed by doing CBT and opening up and becoming more cheerful, I have felt more positive about others, and an improved sense of belonging. When we’re in love, this is even more intense. Did you feel you belonged more in happier times ?

[polly87]

Hi all   
Thanks for this topic HappyChappy. When I was younger (and still in contact with my mother and maternal family) I did not realise they treated me badly because I had no one to compare myself and my situation with. When I went NC, it was a great relief. But weirdly, spending 24/7 with my mother has made me prone to extreme loneliness. Her fear of abandonment made her spend every free minute with me. And now here I am, having spent the first 25 years of my life in suffocating closeness to someone I hated, and the result is that I find it about as hard to live on my own as she does. This depresses me.
On the bright side (which is especially important to note as it is now worrying hour on my side of the globe), I do feel I belong to my paternal family, and I see their positive characteristics reflected in me, and that usually cheers me up. When I was homeless, I stayed with my aunt (dad's sister) and that made me feel like I actually had a mother figure in my life. She's still that to me and it means a lot.
As for friends, I never belonged to a group of friends, and I've always wanted to belong to one. Be one of the group and not stand out as very different. The closest I got to that was my therapy group last year  but I have lost touch with them except for one friend. My ex had a group of friends and they seemed to really like me until he broke up with me and they vanished from my life that very minute.
One day I'd like to live with my partner and be a family together. Gotta keep dreaming, huh 

[polly87]

I did and still do live in worlds I create in my head.  Worlds that want me and are filled with people who know me and my history and want me to be with them in spite of knowing all that.  

Harri, I am the same. I seek out characters in films, tv shows, books or whatever and I use them to populate my mind. They don't leave me because of my troubles. They don't see me as damaged goods. I can visit them when I need them and when people in the real world don't have time for me.

It is weird when even my funny stories cause a friends eyes to fill with tears or to look away.

I've been there... .So often, I wish I could tell funny, lighthearted stories over dinner. But I don't experience such things so I can't tell the stories. I find it really sucks and it often makes me feel like a boring person. Maybe we should exchange some more of our relatively funny stories

I am working on belonging with me.  That will be enough.

Goodness, that's enough for at least one lifetime! For me at least!  

[Phoenix09]

I have searched and searched for a place to belong.  I have volunteered, joined causes and groups and looked for a place to fit in for years.  The only place I ever felt really comfortable with myself was in a barroom.  Sitting with what everyone else called drunks - I never felt judged or unworthy or any pressure.  I also never felt satisfied or fulfilled.  I still went home incredibly lonely every night.

I recently attended a presentation by a Peruvian Shaman (can't even tell you how many paths I've explored looking for a place that felt like home).  He spoke of the Mountain Societies that were so dependent on one another for survival that it was one extended family.  He spoke of the way the community embraced one another and then talked about an idea that was so appealing to me.  He also told of societies where at one point in your life you accepted nature as your true parent figures and your physical parents were only there to fill a role for a certain time.  That really struck a cord with me and I've searched for more information on that. 

I wonder if that might be a path where I might finally be able to truly leave my past behind and find a way to open doors to a new sense of self through belonging.

[Moselle]

Hi Phoenix

Sorry to hear of your search for home.

I think I developed a fragmented personality in a home with a mentally ill mother and an absent father.

The dysfunction caused me to have bits of personality all over the place. I moved easily between social groups but never felt at home in any of the groups. My emotional DNA  ever fitted because I had pieces but not the full thing.

As we get healthier we develop a healthy tribe. Give it some time

[GreenGlit]

Such an interesting idea that has made me think about my upbringing... .belong vs. depend.

I always had this unshakable feeling my entire childhood that something was "wrong." I could never put my finger on WHAT it was... .but I always felt different than everybody else. I would watch the chaotic and temperamental affects of my mother, her splitting, her tantrums, and how my family catered to her needs, and there was something that never sat well with me about it all. Something felt off. It's so interesting to me how decades before I gained an understanding of personality disorders, I could sense the abnormality of my life.

I also felt that friends were always dependable, but my family was fickle. At the same time, my mother would constantly tell me that "family is everything you have" and "friends will disappear but your family is blood." It was a conflicting message when it was my family indeed that was never consistent or dependable, and my friends were a sort of foundation for me on which I have tried to build a normal life.

Like a lot of the replies here, I also had difficulty belonging. I think my upbringing made it very hard to relate to others, and on top of that, my mom was threatened by me having outside relationships and thus discouraged me from them, saying friends were never trustworthy. I didn't really have a sense of my individuality away from my mother... .she raised us as extensions of herself, so my identity was a very foreign concept until I went to college. I never really thought of myself as a separate thing from my parents. At the end of the day I didn't belong. And when I stopped depending on them, I really stopped being a part of  the family since I didn't participate in all the messed up dynamics

[trailwalker]

So my question to you is, did you feel that you belonged in your BPD family dynamic ?

I felt I had an expected role in my borderline/narcissistic family. Belonged? No. I have always felt like an outsider and that I very much do not belong. Some might know this reference from an educational children's show, called Sesame Street that had a song about "One of these things is not like the others". This, in simplistic terms captures my sense of self in my FOO. It has also coloured my sense of self throughout life in group situations and when relating to others generally speaking.

As per how the article talks about belonging, I have an antipathy towards this, especially the romanticized "You belong to me" notion found in songs and some poetry and "love" stories. I find this possessive and therefore unhealthy.

In my view, ultimately no one really belongs to another person, speaking philosophically and spiritually. We can feel close to, bonded with and love deeply another person or within a close-knit group. But we are still separate spiritual beings who come into the world alone and leave alone. To me this is not the same as loneliness, which to me is feeling a need for unrequited closeness in the sense of "Well, I should feel or I want to feel more connected and part of someone or some group and I don't". To me there are limits to how connected we can be, or maybe that is just something peculiar about me and some other detached types of personalities.

I do feel belonging in nature. That is about the only time I have a genuine feeling of oneness with and "this is where I belong". It is not to whom in this world, except for belonging to creation.

My husband, my daughters, my siblings, my extended family, my pets, my friends and parents, are all loved, some much more deeply and intimately then others and cherished each on their own way. I would step in front of a bullet for my daughters. But, none of them belong to me or I to them.

[HappyChappy]

Hi Trailwalker,

You make some excellent points.

romanticized "You belong to me" notion found in songs and some poetry and "love" stories. I find this possessive and therefore unhealthy.

Me too, but as it's so common, maybe we should not. As they probably don't mean it in the BPD enmeshed sense. When someone says to me "I love you." I still think "what do they want".

I do feel belonging in nature.

I never thought of it that way, but you're right. But nature taught us safety in numbers, back when we were pray, so I've joined a walking group.

[HappyChappy]

  There have been some very insightful post in this thread. It clearly is a common trend among we children of BPD, to struggle more than most with belonging. So maybe we should explore why to find a way of more easily belonging?

Here’s my take: a BPD is actively trying to anchor her kids.  Partly by divided and conquer (triangulation), partly by lowering our self esteem.  The Macavillian management style seeks to do exactly the same thing.  But this style only works if you have a captive audience (like high unemployment and uncertainty). Children are a captive market. Look at the uncertainty that has now divided America and Europe in recent years. We are choosing more Narcisstic leaders.

So is part of the solution for use to learn how to trust ? It is well documented that abused children have a lack of trust in authority.  But belonging requires us to trust the authority of the group. If we don’t trust, we don’t get grounded and opinions from others, making us easier to manipulate by a BPD, but harder for us to belong somewhere else. Also maybe we fear being criticised, so don’t join in as much as others?  What are your thoughts on all this?