The final options...

[NewStart]

Well, she told me that I have three options and I can choose... .

1. Buy her out of the house... .
2. She can buy me out of the house... .
3. We can cohabitate... .

She followed that up with I can't be trusted and that "the ring is coming off" meaning she will no longer wear a wedding ring.  When I tried to discuss options to work forward she kept pushing it back to the three above saying that all I have ever done is lie.

I owned my part and tried to talk about how the rages, the isolation and silent treatments don't absolve me from my roll in bending the truth, but that they did create an environment where I took a road to see friends or avoid confrontation for fear of another two or three weeks of isolation etc... .she took no ownership and said the only reason those things happened to me is because of my own actions... .I got what I deserved.

Lesson learned... .the white lies killed me, but I know that what I was trying to avoid WAS REAL and it was psychologically pushing me to a place where I bent the rules to survive.  Did I cheat on her or disappear for days or even hours on end... .no, I would lie about being at work so I could see a friend or lie about buying something for my son or how much I spent... .all as a strategy cope with walking on eggshells... .

NS

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Kelli Cornett]

Was it the white lies that really did you in, as you say?
If this is truly an BPD situation, wouldn't she have found some other reason to not trust you or paint you black?

In the early stages of most every devalue/discard with my wife, I was always so ready to blame myself. As time went on and I learned about how codependency played a role for me, I started to forgive myself and take a clearer look at what was really going on and how certain outcomes to our relationship were inevitable.

[NewStart]

Northface,

It wasn't really, there were maybe a 1/2 dozen of them in three years but that was the final verdict for her.  It used to be that I was selfish and only cared about myself, but that couldn't be proven as I spent more time and money on her and her children than my own... .and everyone saw that, especially my friends who never saw me again... .

The whole situation is sureal right now... .she is financially going to take me to the cleaners too and there's not much I can do about that.  She is a very attractive NPD on high ground right now... so having a hard time seeing how to save this one.  If I choose option 3 I'm in for the hurt of an afair I'm sure as she will justify it as we are separated I fear... .

I don't know, over three years it's been many things from not attentive enough to being accused of still being in love with my ex wife... .

And here I am today "The Liar"... .the perfect he said she said cover story... .

NS

[ArleighBurke]

I used to tell white lies to my BPD wife - to avoid her remarks/rage/backlash. In the last few years I've stopped that. Although it is a good short term solution, when she finds out she then loses trust in you. And avoiding the rage is actually weak.

She needs to be able to trust you. She needs to see that you are emotionally strong. And that means doing what is right, saying the truth, and being the better person.

I understand she is *saying* the marriage is over. But is it? Do you want it to be? She is hurting - so she is saying how she feels. But you can come out of this if you want to.

Did you say anything like "I am sorry for lieing. That's not the person I want to be" WITHOUT saying why you did it? (You do say you owned it, but I wonder how you delivered that message).

If you want to patch things up - accept that she is hurt - move forwards - be strong - earn her trust. You can still go out with friends - tell her that you are going to. If she gives the the silent treatment - make her own it - not you.

[NewStart]

ArleighBurke, ok now that was a hats off, lights on moment and you are right! Yeah I've balanced my message with why I did it instead of just owning it and how it made her feel and that is wrong.  I'll give it a shot and see how it plays out, it's not just the two off us but lots of kids, family and friends in this equation so anything I could do to save this... .well it's worth facing head on and taking my lumps for the parts the I played.

Thank you I really appreciate the take.

NS

[ArleighBurke]

I'm glad I helped!

I know it's TOO easy to justify when apologising. And it makes sense - especially when we didn't think we actually did anything wrong! But that is also invalidating - you are essentially saying "I'm sorry you're upset but you shouldn't be because I had good reasons for doing X". No!

As absolutely difficult as it is, don't JADE! An apology is "sorry for doing X". A better apology adds "I can see that I made you feel Y - that must have felt painful". A great apology also adds "Next time I will Z". And the best apology adds "let's have makeup sex!" Sorry not recommended for BPDs... .

[Kelli Cornett]

Umm, at any point is the BPD partner supposed to apologize for what they did (rage, isolation, and silent treatment in this case), or does their 'condition' excuse them from any kind of self realization and apologies?

Some people consider raging, isolation, etc. to be forms of emotional abuse in a relationship. If a man physically abused his wife as a punishment for telling a white lie would the wife be expected to apologize for her transgression, or would it be the husband who would be expected to beg for forgiveness and have to promise to seek help?

[NewStart]

Northface, my thoughts exactly... .right now my uBPD/NPDw has all the cards and is just pushing buttons, while all the time I am searching for solutions and am there for her and our family... .it's a mess and I can't help but feel she's looking for the next fuel... .

NS

[teapay]

Option 3 seems like the status quo on steriods.
What is keeping you from choosing option 1 or 2?
Do you see an additional options for yourself or do you want to keep as is and try to not rock the boat so much?  What do you want regardless of W and regardless if r/s srays together or not?

[ArleighBurke]

Umm, at any point is the BPD partner supposed to apologize for what they did (rage, isolation, and silent treatment in this case), or does their 'condition' excuse them from any kind of self realization and apologies?

They are not excused. BUT, you can only control yourself, not others. If you want to put your foot down and insist they apologise, get annoyed when they don't, make it a battle and waste all that effort - you are going to become very angry/depressed very quickly. You can try to make a boundary about it, but it has to be done the right way.

Be the best YOU can be.

[ArleighBurke]

right now my uBPD/NPDw has all the cards and is just pushing buttons,

Only if you let them. That's the point - they can only have as much control as you let them have.

If she can successfully "push your buttons" then you need better self control. If she "holds all the cards" - why the hell are you playing her game?

You can make the choice to stop playing. You can make the choice to make your life what you want it to be. Have boundaries (not ultimatums). Live the way you want - and invite her to share your life on your terms. If she chooses not to, then that is HER choice.

That is the outcome we are trying to achieve. Lose the co-dependance and own your life.

[Kelli Cornett]

Umm, at any point is the BPD partner supposed to apologize for what they did (rage, isolation, and silent treatment in this case), or does their 'condition' excuse them from any kind of self realization and apologies?

They are not excused. BUT, you can only control yourself, not others. If you want to put your foot down and insist they apologise, get annoyed when they don't, make it a battle and waste all that effort - you are going to become very angry/depressed very quickly. You can try to make a boundary about it, but it has to be done the right way.

Be the best YOU can be.

My post was more sarcastic in nature, based on your advice that the OP should apologize for telling a white lie that was told so he could protect himself from further emotional abuse (which the OP laid out in his post).

There's a vast difference between controlling your reactions, establishing boundaries, and being the best you that you can be, and protecting yourself from emotional abuse from your pwBPD and then apologizing for having protected yourself. Just like there's a vast difference between understanding BPD and protecting yourself, and being a BPD apologist.

You know, they used to tell abused women to apologize to their abusive husbands for making them so angry and it was up to them to not anger them again so that the abuse didn't happen again

[ArleighBurke]

Everything is intertwined.

I get telling a white lie to prevent her abuse. But it also created distrust.

He is quite OK to take the stance "I am more than happy telling you lies to prevent an arguement. When we are able to communicate better, I may be more comfortable telling you the truth". So long as HE owns it - it is HIS CHOICE to tell lies. And he needs to accept the consequence (lack of trust).

Or he can take the stance "I am not afraid of your emotional outbursts. I don't like them, but I value being honest (as a personal trait) more than I fear your rage." And he needs to accept the consequence of that (her yelling more!)

Either one is a personal choice. In my relationship I don't apologise for my actions, but I do apologise that my actions made my BPDw feel X. (This took me a while to be comfortable with - because I do not MAKE her feel anything, but my actions contribute/cause her to feel - close enough). Apologising for "the situation" helps validate her and helps her feel heard. And I believe it shows ownership and personal strength.

[ArleighBurke]

You know, they used to tell abused women to apologize to their abusive husbands for making them so angry and it was up to them to not anger them again so that the abuse didn't happen again

I grappled with this concept a lot. If I *know* that a certain action will result in abuse, do i do it anyway because "it's right" or because "I should be able to"? That is living in a fantasy. Reality is, action X causes reaction Y. If there is a need for me to do X, then we need to work out a way to enable it. If there is no need to do X, then why would I?

Certain topics of conversation with my BPDw cause huge negative reactions (anything to do with gender balance). I would love to have some deep/interesting conversations with her, but it's not worth it. I am happy to not provoke her.

But me spending time with friends also causes hugh negative reaction. This is something i am not willing to give up. So we need to work together to work out how to manage it. I know which approaches/situations cause the most reaction and avoid those. But I am going to try different methods/approaches to try to prevent/lessen her reaction.