No more sex

[CrazyChuck]

My wife has decided she no longer likes sex. She says she will keep doing it for me, but she gets nothing from it. This came after a situation where I got a little upset. A few month past, during sex, she got her phone and started texting people. I ended up apologizing for being upset, just like I always do if I get upset about anything.

And then one night while she was getting ready for bed she suggested we get busy. I was very excited and while she was in the bathroom I put on some low music and placed a few candles around the room. This made her very angry. She said I was trying too hard and she was only going to have sex for me anyway. That she didn't want to draw it out longer than it was already going to take. I quickly blew out the candles and turned off the music, but it was too late. She was mad and going to bed.

Our relationship is actually very good right now. I just would like to have sex like we had in the past.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[jrharvey]

WOW That is nuts! She is way overboard here. I do think the candles and music is a bit much. It doesn't put off a very masculine vibe but NO EXCUSE for the crappy thing she said. Did you say anything back to her? Getting mad and going to bed because of that was a really silly way to handle things. No communication at all. Sheesh. She probably wants something different and has expectations she is unwilling to communicate for some reason. Have you tried just being spontaneous and taking her right on the spot? All women I have ever been with may say they want time to get ready or something but love spontaneous, random and passionate sex more than anything. IDK just a thought.

[Hmcbart]

My wife decided the same thing a few years ago. The biggest difference is she won't even do it just for me.  At one point I was told that it would happen when she wants it to or not at all.  Turns out "when she wants it to" is very rarely. Hasn't happened since April this year.  My anniversary is today and I'm not getting my hopes up today either.  Sucks to live this way.

[bobcat2014]

Greetings Chuck!

Wow. Once the chase is over, they do love to close the cookie jaw. In exactly the same boat as you. My uBPDw will blame the meds, kids and any other excuse to avoid intimacy, not to say I don't get my once a month offer to hurry up and be done with it.

[Hmcbart]

Yep, just got the call saying it's her time of the month plus she's dizzy and vomiting. So, no anniversary sex for me.  I should be hurt and upset but I knew this would happen so I never expected any other outcome.

[jrharvey]

So your wives openly just "don't give a %$*"? Have they just stopped trying? Do you guys continue to try and make her happy or do you just not care about her needs either? Honestly from the sound of things most of the men here are very very eager and ready to do anything for their wives who wouldn't life a finger for them. I think if I got to that point I would just stop trying. Im really curious because Im wondering if she just doesn't feel like giving because she already gets everything she needs. I cant imagine being in that situation.

[Kelli Cornett]

If your w has BPD, this should not come as a surprise.
Just like r/s aren't healthy with pwBPD, sex isn't either.
In a normal healthy r/s sex is an expression of intimacy, love, bonding, feeling good, etc., but people with BPD use sex to control, manipulate, project, as part of a lack of impulse control, and as a feel good type of mechanism like how some would use drugs or alcohol.

If your w is not getting any of these things out of sex with you at the moment, she sees no reason to have sex with you. Throw on top of that the fact that many pwBPD have been molested, assaulted, or have a bad history with sex (before you ever came into the picture in her life), and it's not surprising that most BPD r/s have a super unhealthy sexual component to go along with all the other unhealthy aspects of the r/s.

[Hmcbart]

In my situation I've pretty much stopped trying to offer any affection.  It doesn't get reciprocated so it's not worth it.  I also don't have much left to give when it comes to emotions.  My youngest is turning 9 this month. I'm mostly just trying to get by until he's out of school. I usually spend most of my time at work or with the kids.  I don't have the capacity left to try and take care of her every need.  These days it's just a lit of mysterious illnesses that the doctors can't help with.  

We just moved a few months ago and other parents are already noticing how often she is "sick" or has a headache.  I stopped trying to make excuses a while ago so now I let her deal with the outcome of her actions or in most cases inactions.  

[jrharvey]

Do you feel like she would do anything and everything to get you hooked but once you got married things just stopped? Or was it always like that even before you married?

[Hmcbart]

For me it was after a few years of marriage.  That's when the goal posts started getting moved.  It wasn't until we went to MC a few years ago that I realized what was actually happening.  A few more years and a lot of BS promises from her later I just gave up even asking for it.  The let down of being hopeful was too much.  I just gave up.

Northfaces comment may be spot on. I stopped playing the game of Charlie Brown and Lucy football.  Since she can't use it to manipulate me, she does do it at all. I never thought about it that way. 

[Kelli Cornett]

In my situation I've pretty much stopped trying to offer any affection.  It doesn't get reciprocated so it's not worth it.  I also don't have much left to give when it comes to emotions.  My youngest is turning 9 this month. I'm mostly just trying to get by until he's out of school. I usually spend most of my time at work or with the kids.  I don't have the capacity left to try and take care of her every need.  These days it's just a lit of mysterious illnesses that the doctors can't help with.  

We just moved a few months ago and other parents are already noticing how often she is "sick" or has a headache.  I stopped trying to make excuses a while ago so now I let her deal with the outcome of her actions or in most cases inactions.  

The reason I never posted 'my story' here, is because so many others have already posted my story as our experiences are insanely similar.

Except for a few minor differences, this is pretty much my story ever since the last idealization and hypersexual phase ended and I wound up in devalue/discard land.

Idealization=hypersexual
Devaluation=mechanical/problematic sex
Discard=no sex and no intimacy

[Hmcbart]

I use to think I had multiple personality disorder because it sounds like everyone in here is married to my wife.  I would read a post and start asking if I had another account that was being used by another me. 

I think the more I'm around normal people the more it bothers me now.  I was cringing last night listening to my 9y/o's friends parents talking.  They were saying things to each other that I would never say to my wife out of fear of rage.  I think my son even noticed.

I think that's going to be my biggest obstacle.  Interacting with others in a normal way without fear of them completely turning things around and getting upset over it.  The next obstacle will be not talking to my wife the way I can with others.  I'm just now learning again to make new friends and have relationships with others outside of her.  It's harder than I thought it would be.

[Kelli Cornett]

I use to think I had multiple personality disorder because it sounds like everyone in here is married to my wife.  I would read a post and start asking if I had another account that was being used by another me. 

I think the more I'm around normal people the more it bothers me now.  I was cringing last night listening to my 9y/o's friends parents talking.  They were saying things to each other that I would never say to my wife out of fear of rage.  I think my son even noticed.

I think that's going to be my biggest obstacle.  Interacting with others in a normal way without fear of them completely turning things around and getting upset over it.  The next obstacle will be not talking to my wife the way I can with others.  I'm just now learning again to make new friends and have relationships with others outside of her.  It's harder than I thought it would be.

I spoke to a T awhile back who specializes in BPD, and he said one of the big problems with non's who stick with their BPD partners is that we get 'conditioned'. That conditioning not only shows up when we interact with our BPD partners, but starts showing up in our normal daily lives with others.

That's when you either have to leave the situation or take control of how you deal with it (not reacting to her, and not letting her affect how you feel about yourself), and start taking care of yourself (and your kids, obviously).

I've put this into action, and it does work. You know it's working when you stop longing for your BPD partner, start seeing them for who they really are, and the whole longing for their approval, idealization, and sex with them basically goes away. The sadness and pain of the situation sticks around for some time, but you stop looking at getting back together for another recycle as the solution for that sadness and pain. It's just something you have to get through, learn from it, become a better person and father, and try not to make the same mistakes again.

[waverider]

pwBPD dont "get" compounding effects. hence they can make an excuse, and it works, so they make an excuse a fresh next time and expect it to work equally, rinse repeat.

They do not realize the effects build up, and equally the credibility of the excuses, diminishes with repetitions. Hence you are the one becoming unreasonable not them.

its like the kids who turns up to school each day with an excuse as to why they dont have their homework, and feels victimized as they are no longer believed, then have no comprehension as to why they fail the year as they had good excuses and so it wasn't their fault.

Repetition becomes default and self delusion.

Once avoidance sets in, it becomes their comfort zone, then turning it around becomes an even bigger obstacle for them to overcome

[Kelli Cornett]

pwBPD dont "get" compounding effects. hence they can make an excuse, and it works, so they make an excuse a fresh next time and expect it to work equally, rinse repeat.

They do not realize the effects build up, and equally the credibility of the excuses, diminishes with repetitions. Hence you are the one becoming unreasonable not them.

its like the kids who turns up to school each day with an excuse as to why they dont have their homework, and feels victimized as they are no longer believed, then have no comprehension as to why they fail the year as they had good excuses and so it wasn't their fault.

Repetition becomes default and self delusion.

Once avoidance sets in, it becomes their comfort zone, then turning it around becomes an even bigger obstacle for them to overcome

The avoidance thing, is pretty interesting.
Via text my BPDw is frequently engaging and playful, but pulls away from family interaction in person.
I had thought that this was a byproduct of dissociation, but this certainly could be emotional avoidance.

[waverider]

Avoidance is a common unhealthy coping mechanism for anxiety and distress intolerance.

[bobcat2014]

[/quote]

I spoke to a T awhile back who specializes in BPD, and he said one of the big problems with non's who stick with their BPD partners is that we get 'conditioned'. That conditioning not only shows up when we interact with our BPD partners, but starts showing up in our normal daily lives with others.


[/quote]

Excellent point. You learn to "walk on eggshells", avoid triggers and eventually wind up isolated and screwed up in the head. This sounds similar, because it follows a pathology.

[CrazyChuck]

Idealization=hypersexual
Devaluation=mechanical/problematic sex
Discard=no sex and no intimacy

This is my exact process. In the beginning we couldn't have enough sex, and it was fantastic (2 years). Then there started to be issues during sex, like wrong position, wrong time, too much kissing, not enough kissing.  Now we are at the point where I am getting upset and frustrated and she lets me know she is only doing it for me.

[Hmcbart]

I get told that I only want to be with her for the sex.  It doesn't seem to register when I tell her that if all I wanted was the sex, I would have left a long time ago.  1-2 times a year isn't going to make anyone stay just for sex.  Some days I wish she would just take one for the team and do it even if it's just for me. Then again, I don't really want to have sex with someone who isn't in to it.  I might as well take care of it myself at that point. 

[Lockjaw]

I get told that I only want to be with her for the sex.  It doesn't seem to register when I tell her that if all I wanted was the sex, I would have left a long time ago.  1-2 times a year isn't going to make anyone stay just for sex.  Some days I wish she would just take one for the team and do it even if it's just for me. Then again, I don't really want to have sex with someone who isn't in to it.  I might as well take care of it myself at that point. 

I hear that from my GF. She says that is all I care about. I was like, well I can buy me a toy and take care of myself. Oh no... .then I might like it more than her.

[Hmcbart]

 
Just bringing up sex or intimacy with my wife will cause an immediate headache.  If I want her to leave me alone, all I have to do is change the conversation to sex. She will then have to go lay down due to a migraine or other ailment.  That's the only up side to it at all. I have learned how to have time to myself.

[Chamomile]

I don't know if my husband has BPD but I am beginning to suspect that he does. He has pretty much turned away from me to porn.

He seems to focus on one particular act in his viewing preferences.

He's sincerely puzzled and at times angry and resentful that I can't simply accept and leave him to his porn life. More rarely, he seems empathetic and vows to change and shares himself sexually. He seems to enjoy it. But it's always short-lived.

I moved out of our bedroom because I have become afraid of his rages. But also I can't sleep with him night after night and not eventually crave physical and sexual affection from him. It is like Hmcbart says about letting go of hope because it is too painful.

I told him that I understand that men do look at porn. But when he began to devote the greater part of his sexual energy to it and away from me, I do feel like he betrayed the marriage. He told me I was insane.

I am sleeping and living in my office now. I don't know what else to do or how else to live in an asexual marriage. He says he is not happy with my decision and is now saying that he is tired of always being alone and that he wants a divorce.

He's very bitter about the way life has turned out. I can't help but wonder if part of his sexual neglect is to punish me. Or to punish all women symbolically.

[bobcat2014]

Idealization=hypersexual
Devaluation=mechanical/problematic sex
Discard=no sex and no intimacy

This is my exact process. In the beginning we couldn't have enough sex, and it was fantastic (2 years). Then there started to be issues during sex, like wrong position, wrong time, too much kissing, not enough kissing.  Now we are at the point where I am getting upset and frustrated and she lets me know she is only doing it for me.

Chuck, this is also my exact story line. Like yourself, I would say we are at a good spot right now. I am reminded (by her) how lucky I am to even get what I get and victim of her moving the goal posts. In the beginning and at certain times throughout our marriage we rivaled porn stars in the sex department. Despite a crumb or two, I get so lonely for connection. I know I will never actually get to "make love" to her because she will not connect with any intimacy.

[bobcat2014]

I moved out of our bedroom because I have become afraid of his rages. But also I can't sleep with him night after night and not eventually crave physical and sexual affection from him. It is like Hmcbart says about letting go of hope because it is too painful.



He's very bitter about the way life has turned out. I can't help but wonder if part of his sexual neglect is to punish me. Or to punish all women symbolically.

Cham,

I am sorry you are going through this. You seem to describe several BPD attributes about him, so you are likely correct. The core damage to them is so deep that in their distorted reality, they actually hate themselves. At least my wife does. You sound intelligent, so you know his issues have nothing to do with you.  Hang in there

[Hmcbart]

Cham,

I feel for you.  I agree with bobcat on the self hate.  My wife has said several times that she hates herself and that she doesn't even like to look at herself in the mirror when she's fixing her hair.  I wish she would project that on to me. 

After my anniversary last week, my wife said she had spoken to my mom and watching the kids for this weekend so we could have alone time. I wasn't excited about it at the time because I'm used to something coming up to keep stuff like that from happening.  Her it is a few days from the weekend and plans have changed.  My youngest has birthday parties to attend this werkend and being hew to the area it's good for him to socialize and make friends, according to my wife.  That's the reasoning for not being able to go away for the weekend just the two of us.  Then of course we have the up coming holidays and how busy that will be," she doesn't want to put it off because of how important she feels it is", but just doesn't know when it would be possible.  I just said ok after she told me all this.  I told her maybe we can do it next year.  The whole time I was thinking, I never expected her to go through with it to begin with so I'm not hurt or upset or really even disappointed.

 Just numb to anything she says these days. Anything that concerns our relationship/marriage and intimacy /sex is just not something I believe she will follow through on.  She judges herself by her intentions. She intended to have sex with me but had a "insert ailment here", so she couldn't.  But because she intended to, that counts.  She judges me by my actions.  If I say I'm going to do something she wants and I don't for what ever reason, I get blasted for it.  Funny how the double standards work. 

[JohnLove]

Oooh... .the double standards abound.

These "mystery ailments" are just that. MADE UP. It is not unusual for doctors to not give a formative diagnoses. It is even harder when there is no medical reason for it. I can see you are already up on this. You have realised these mystery illnesses are very convienient when she doesnt want to/can't deal with a "problem"... .which is not even a problem. Well, for most people, anyway.

Classic avoidance with "medical reasons" so she can't be questioned. This isn't reasonable... .it is maddening. Note that other mental illnesses are usually comorbid.

Also her words and actions not aligning?... .only "intentions" that don't even ring true?

[JohnLove]

Cham,

I feel for you.  I agree with bobcat on the self hate.  My wife has said several times that she hates herself and that she doesn't even like to look at herself in the mirror when she's fixing her hair.  I wish she would project that on to me. 

?... .she is. Do you feel you are recieving "love" from her?... .or her projections of herself onto you?

If she is usually arrogant and haughty then that behaviour would be quite the turnaround, would it not?

From my understanding of BPD there is always a narcissistic component of at least 25% of the disorder. I suspect your SO is also a covert narcissist. Look it up. It may help you.

[Hmcbart]

After what I've been through since my anniversary on the 1st, I'm about to implode.  I told her I don't believe her when she says it's important to her and wants it also but turns around and has a reason why she can't or won't.  I'm at the point of tears and just giving up completely.  We are supposed to go away for the night this Sunday but after our argument last night I have given her the reason for why she won't be in the mood.  I'm not allowed to get upset or angry because my words are then turned into her justification.  I'm literally at the point of a complete mental break down. Today is the worst I've ever been in terms of my mental health. And the person I should be able to confide in and tell my feelings to, my wife, I can't.  My feelings only cause her to get upset.  And the very thing I am only supposed to go to my wife for is also her biggest trigger.

[JohnLove]

I am sorry you are suffering so badly. I know you have spent a lot of time drumming down your expectations of your partner (read: relationship) but trying to let go (detach) while practicing radical acceptance may bring you some comfort.