learning about BPD

[Andrea2]

Hi Group,

I'm new to this message board.

I have an in-law who has created havoc in my family of origin.  I have an impaired relationship with my sibling because of the BPD in-law and distant contact with my nephews.  For the past decades, I've tried to rationalize the series of behaviors which made me feel abandoned and literally shut off from this person's home in my most vulnerable times.  This person has pulled me into her life, can be charming and without rhyme or reason, be cruel and distant.  It's especially hard around holidays, which are always unpredictable.  My only recourse is to shut myself off emotionally from a person who has caused me so much pain and is unpredictable.  I don't like having to live this way but I see no alternative because dialogues don't seem to help.  Any and all feedback on this situation is much appreciated.

Thanks,
A

[sad but wiser]

Welcome to wonderland... .the strange amd confusing world of BPD.  Learning about this will take awhile.  As you can see from all the posts, you are not alone. 
Let me tell you one insight that helped me: they cannot give or return your love.  They just don't have it to give.  The most you can have is their (very temporary) approval.  Each of them suffered a serious emotional injury early in life. Don't pay a full emotional price for what they offer.  Keep your expectations low, as you would with a child.  They are literally little children in grown up bodies.  Many have good minds, but emotionally are stuck in an infantile stage.  Good luck to you.  I encourage you to keep reading here. 

[scaredy-cat]

Hi,

I have a cousin dxBPD who reacts the same way.  One minute she wants to be best friends and the next she's angry and lashing out. 

Holidays are rough around someone with BPD.  My mother tends to go from "I want to buy you everything" to "You're a horrible person who deserves to suffer" for the holidays & not many people really understand when I tell them I hate holidays.  But it's hard to enjoy a day that is as likely to end in screaming as it is in gifts (and the stress is enough to tie one in knots... .).

The idea that helped me hold on was that I have both a right and a responsibility to protect myself from the craziness.  It gave me a platform to take a stand from, when before I had accepted whatever abuse was heaped my way.

Keep your expectations low, as you would with a child.  They are literally little children in grown up bodies.  Many have good minds, but emotionally are stuck in an infantile stage. 

This is very true.  I taught karate for years & I find that I treat my mother the same way I would an 8-10 year old.  She's accused me of 'treating her like a child' a couple of times.  I wasn't required to answer that, since she was throwing a temper tantrum at the time.  Although I think the last time I told her that I wouldn't treat her like a child if she didn't act like one.

If you feel comfortable giving us more information about what's going on, we might be able to share similar experiences, or give advice on how we handled situations.

I can recommend reading the book "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", it might give some insight into the push and pull of BPD.

Also: keep in mind that you can't fix someone who doesn't want help.  It can lead to a lot of resentment between both parties and strain relationships.  Especially if someone is far in the FOG (fear obligation guilt) of someone with BPD.

SC

[Andrea2]

Thank you so much for the quick replies.  As I am new to the group, I am learning how to use this list serve.

It's especially helpful to understand the aspect of not expecting my BPD family member to give and return love.  When she's receptive to family, she really puts on the show and makes everything in the environment perfect for everyone.  When she wants everyone to leave, it's as if we don't exist and she's off into a reality that we have no access to with new friends and possibly lovers (I know of one situation of cheating but suspect there has been more).

The most painful aspect of this situation is that my sibling is so enmeshed with her; his sole focus is not to disrupt the "harmony" they have which means seeing me the least amount possible.  He is an absentee brother and uncle to my children.  If I try to address anything with him, he simply doesn't respond. Will he ever wake-up to the life he's missed out on, I wonder?  He's gone from an outgoing guy to someone who has no friends and no life outside his immediate family. He's gone from loving his extended family to seeing practically no one for years on end.  Will he wake up from this nightmare?  When will this nightmare end?

Thanks for all of your help and advice! 

[scaredy-cat]

He's gone from an outgoing guy to someone who has no friends and no life outside his immediate family. He's gone from loving his extended family to seeing practically no one for years on end.  Will he wake up from this nightmare?  When will this nightmare end?

My dad's in a similar situation.  My mother visits her relatives on a weekly basis, while my dad is only allowed to see his 2-3 times a year at family functions.  The extended family has expressed that they do not understand how he can stay with my mother.

Your SIL sounds like she mainly displays Queen tendencies.  (Her way or the highway, she is in charge/the ultimate authority, etc).  My mother used to be more Waif with a side helping of Witch, but once I passed about ten she transitioned more towards Queen and Witch with the Waif lurking in the background.

The book "Understanding the Borderline Mother" has a section on the four main stereo types men who support someone with BPD tend to fall into.  They are:
The Frog-Prince - someone to rescue & someone to rescue them
The Huntsman - someone who pities and protects them
The King -- someone of power and wealth (real or perceived)
The Fisherman -- someone to be dominated and controlled.

Now since your brother sounds a bit like my dad, let's take a brief look at the main characteristics of the Huntsman.

• Good hearted, loyal, principled, easygoing, hardworking
• Uses denial and avoidance to regulate emotions
• Derives self esteem from duty, honor, and service

Someone once said that the emotional highs of being with a pwBPD during the good times made him want to stay w/ his significant other even though the bad times were absolutely awful.  (Don't remember who said this, it was years ago).  That's one thing to keep in mind about your brother.  If she's exhausting to you, imagine how bad it could be for him.  Her drama might be all the trouble she can handle.

Have you tried keeping things low key?  You probably have, but if you keep things from the stance of: 'I'm here if you need me, but I won't judge or make demands' it is possible that your brother could start viewing you as more of a support and he'll be less inclined to withdraw.

I know my whole extended family (both sides) lies to my mother about when they spoke to me and what they spoke to me about.  Because they know that if they admit to talking to me for more than a few minutes, then my mother will get jealous and they'll have to pay for it.

his sole focus is not to disrupt the "harmony" they have which means seeing me the least amount possible.

If she's got any witch tendencies this is a survival instinct, or it could be his way of trying to protect his kids (I think you said you had nephews).  When a witch isn't happy, everybody suffers... .

Getting back to SIL.  There are a couple of methods that can make talking to someone with BPD easier if you are interested in trying to maintain a dialog with her to grant you access to your brother.  SET is useful when the crazy things start to come out (The bulk of my reading is from 12 yrs ago when I first learned about BPD, so some of my information may be a bit out of date.)  SET stands for Support, Empathy, Truth.  Basically it starts with an I statement (ie: I want to help), goes to a you statement (ie: you seem to be angry right now), then ends with a truth statement (ie: It's okay to be angry, but it's not okay for you to take it out on me).

There are other threads that might help in workshops forums, though they tend to be more geared towards people with a parent/child/partner with BPD. 

Hope some of this helped, though I rambled a bit.

SC

[Panda39]

Hi Andrea2,

I want to join sad but wiser and scardey-cat and welcome you to the  bpdfamily.

Although you haven't said specifically it sounds like your SIL (sister-in-law) is the family member with BPD.  It's great that you have reached out here for support.  You are not alone, many members are or have been in similar situations. The members here are a great source of information, support, ideas and will lend a sympathetic ear when you just need to vent.

Can you tell me if your SIL has been offically diagnosed or is she like my SO's (significant other's) uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife) undiagnosed but the shoe is a perfect fit?  How much do you and your family know about BPD?  Have you done much research on the subject?

I think the first step (if you haven't already done this) is to get a good idea of what BPD is... .what you are dealing with.

I discovered BPD by Googling "Chronic Lying" regarding my SO's ex-wife.  Although, I'm no therapist and can't diagnose someone the description fit the behaviors I was seeing to a tee.  That led me to my local Libary where I had books from all over my library system pulled to read and I was then able to get a good idea of what was going on from that research. Behaviors that made no sense to me began to make sense, I could see patterns in my SO's uBPDxw's behaviors which was really helpful in making some order out of the chaos she could create. There are many books on the subject but there were two I particularly liked... .

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder, Edition 2 by:Paul Mason & Randi Kreger

and

Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change by:Valerie Porr, M.A.

I also want to point you to the box on the right -> Everything there is a link to more information.  You might want to start in the "Lessons" section my guess is that you will find a lot of information that relate both your relationship with your SIL and some insight into the relationship between her and your brother.

As you make your way through this information please ask any questions that come to mind.

Again Welcome 
Panda39

[Andrea2]

Hi group,

I have a question for the group who responded to my last post.

I know my brother is caught in the push-pull of his wife's illness.  She has convinced him that he is an alcoholic and that he is an absentee husband and father.  Since he has no friends and works around the clock to support every more demanding spending habits, I'm not sure which parts of what she accuses him of may be true.  What I wonder about is if I should send him a copy to his office of "Stop Walking on Eggshells."  It seems that he has sought out to understand what his wife's behaviors are all about and will periodically ask me for help but lately he's back in the cave with his wife's pathology.

Since he seems to do everything she tells him as of late, I don't know if it's the right thing to send him a book. Maybe I should stay on the sidelines and just watch what is going on with him without interfering?  I feel like I'm watching my brother go through the same abusive relationship my mother did with her husband who also had a lot of borderline traits.

I appreciate what someone wrote about trying to be as undemanding as possible in his life.  The struggle is not to get angry with him for allowing his wife to manipulate him and play around with family holidays.  I know that detaching for me is the only thing I can do and some days it feels better than others.

Any/all advice is much appreciated.

Thanks,
A.

[scaredy-cat]

My friend gave me SWOE when I was in college.  It was a godsend.  As for timing of sending the book, it could go either way. Personally I would wait until the next time he seemed to be questioning things. When someone is deeply enmeshed pushing can backfire quite amazingly.

Detaching is hard. Its hard not to feel betrayed by the other person for not seeing/not being there. Especially if youve seen the pattern before. Holidays make it worse. Everyone wishes for that ideal holiday that just makes it hurt more.

Sorry for terse reply. Cellphones are not great for typing.

SC

Edit: if friend had given me the book even 3 months sooner than he did I would have thrown it out unread. Mother had me believing everything was normal  and anything not normal was my fault. I was still trying to 'get it right' and find magic solution to create a 'good me' that would keep her happy.

[Panda39]

I agree I think if your brother reaches out to you that might be an opportunity but don't be surprised if he gets sucked right back in again, tells her about it, and you get split black.  Black and white thinking is a very BPD behavior... .you're either with me or against me.

You'll need to decide if it is worth the risk.  It might be better to learn about BPD, learn some tools that you can pass on to your brother to help him without labeling his wife.  The more you understand about the whole dynamic the more you can help him see it (when he is ready to).  You can learn better ways to communicate with someone with BPD, you can learn about the Karpman triangle, you can learn to better understand your SIL's behaviors, you can learn about how important boundaries are, you can learn about co-dependence, emotional blackmail etc... .Then you will be more knowledgeable and have tools you can suggest to him when he reaches out to you.

But even armed with knowledge you cannot change your brother and his choices it will be up to him when he is ready, if he ever becomes ready... .but you can be there when he is ready. 

I hope you will check out some of the other Boards so you can get some insight into what your brother might be dealing with and on this board read the posts of children of BPD mothers with enabling fathers.  Get a good understanding of the dynamic that is going on in his home and how that effects him and his children.  Then you can make educated and thoughtful decisions on where, when and how you can assist your brother and nephews.

Take Care,
Panda39

[Andrea2]

Thank you so much!

I feel more comfortable moving forward.  It's now clear to me that I shouldn't approach him unless he approaches me.  He wants us all to keep the harmony and the best I can do is to plan fun things for myself and immediate cycle so that it's not as painful to watch what goes on for him. 

Thank you again!  Very helpful!