NC problem BPD ex gf Mother phoned. What is happening?

[MikeLondon]

I just had a call from BPD exGf's Mother. She has never phoned me before, doesn't like me. Anyway am 3 and half weeks into  NC. I didn't intentionally leave the R but went away to visit my daughter, BPD gf phoned and went crazy at me. I didn't go back and didn't call again. Her Mother says she is very worried about daughter, she said her pride wouldn't let her call, but she somehow asked her Mother to call me. The Mother said that Ex gf PWBPD said that I was probably out with other women etc (not true at all). Anyway she wanted me to call exgf tomorrow as she doesn't want to speak tonight. Mother was worried as daughter is crying all the time and has kind of lost it. I said I would call. Didn't know what else to say. Not sure at all. Am wary about being hovered. Doesn't sound like ex gf is in any way responsible for the split in her eyes. I don't know what to do. I am 20 years older than she and the prospect of being imprisoned or raged at again fills me with dread. Help what now? By the way I have feelings for her, love her and miss her but life was becoming so constricted and small. I just want freedom from the mad stuff, and do not want to walk back into the minefield.  :)oes anyone have any ideas? She has a diagnosis but has denied it, ignored it etc. I don't think this sounds like a change of heart or a taking of responsibility on her part. But maybe it is a bit of FOG and loneliness with me that I am thinking of making the call. Any help or ideas or experience anyone can share with me?

[MikeLondon]

Am I on wrong board? I really need some help please, I am not sure where to go.

[rfriesen]

Hi Mike,

That's a terrible situation to be put in, and I sympathise with you for having to deal with it one way or another, no options sounding easy at this point.

I just want freedom from the mad stuff, and do not want to walk back into the minefield.

Does this mean you've decided you want to end the relationship and detach? Is it over in your mind? If so, it might be a good idea to let your ex know by stating this clearly. In other words, the phone call is an opportunity for you to be clear that you want to end the relationship because it is too painful, or unhealthy, or however you would describe your reasons.

If you would like to continue the relationship, but only on condition that your gf recognise some of the destructive dynamics of the relationship and be willing to work through it with you, then it's an opportunity to tell her so.

You could certainly make clear from the outset of the call (or by email or some other way before the call) that you are not interested in yelling or rages and that you will end the conversation if that's the direction it takes.

There's no easy way to deal with painful situations and feelings. I think the best you can do is be clear on where you stand and try to communicate that as clearly as you can to your ex/gf. If the conversation devolves into raging, then you might have to end it and make clear that you won't engage when that happens.

Does that sound reasonable and workable?

[hope2727]

I am sorry you are experiencing this. I know how hard it can be to deal with this kind of manipulation. Please be very cautious. It i easy to get sucked back into the drama. Remember you are under no obligation to call anyone ever. If you are not comfortable calling send her a carefully worded email saying so and then block all contact. ITs what I had to do to get some peace. IT took a great deal of courage. Mine was threatening suicide and everything. I had to tell him I loved him and that his actions had consequences so he had to deal with them. I hope you keep posting and get the advice that works for you. I can only tell you my experiences. Keep writing and tell us what happens.

[Herodias]

In the narcissistic world they call this a "flying monkey"... .it's when they get someone to do their work for them as the flying monkeys did for the witch in the wizard of oz. Since she asked her Mother to call you, it is just another tactic to get to you. My ex tried to contact my Mother through Facebook when we split. Luckily my Mom hardly goes on there and didn't notice. I'm sorry that you told her Mother that you would... .If you are truly done with her then I wouldn't contact her. If the Mother calls again, I would suggest that she gets her daughter some professional help. Sorry you are in this position, but it sounds like just another tactic. My ex mother in law just contacted me and I had to put a stop to it... .it is really sad. I like her to a point, I just don't know to what degrees she would go for her Son, since he has a baby now. They bully the parents into doing what they want I am sure... .be careful, look out for yourself. If you do call, know your boundaries and stick with them. All you can do is encourage her to get help. She is testing to see how much you will take. When you tell them to get help, especially if they act suicidal and you do not react the way they want you to, they will see they need to move on.

[MikeLondon]

Thank you Herodias/Rfr/ and Hope
Just the stuff I needed to hear. I do think that she is manipulating me and her Mother, so much so that she didn't want to speak to me tonight. She wants to speak when she is on her own. Her Mother knows what she can be like, I do know that. My exgf always craves attention from her Mother as well as me. I really do not want to risk going back in there, I have had it. Yes I love her, but cannot go through it all again. I am concerned about self harm or at least threats of it, so your words were spot on for me. I do think that this might be an opportunity to really end it. I am not sure how strong I would be face to face, but the advice about  any abuse or rage  directed at me on phone  also makes sense. I have missed her(the good parts) but my freedom and health is more important than any small amount of good stuff that might come my way. thanks, you have given me some very good information. I will keep posting and let you know what happens.

[stimpy]

If I have this right, you have gone NC with her because she raged at you, and she has too much pride to contact you. So there is no formal final split as such, you are both in effect NC at the moment, though for different reasons.

You describe her as an ex, and at the same time that you didn't intentionally leave.

This sounds like a very painful situation to be in. On both sides, both for her and for you. Is it really NC, or is it a cooling down period, so that both of you have a chance to think? And I would think very hard about what you want from the relationship, from her and from yourself before speaking to her. Only once you know what you want, and have a plan in place of how to get there, would I phone.

If you still don't know what you want, then would the phone call help, either you or your ex?

Unless the phone call is to end the relationship once and for all and to either give or get closure or both?

[MikeLondon]

Hi Stimpy
There was no formal split, but I was intending to leave within the next 4 weeks, I was planning to go, but it all got brought forward by my visiting my daughter. I cannot see an option other than ending it. I have suggested in the past that I keep my own flat and have some time there each week on my own and that we spend time together too, but she would have none of it. In fact she was in denial of me even having a separate place, would not talk about it and didn't want to see it, saw it as a threat. We have recycled 5 or 6 times. I lived overseas and each parting brought about a lot of anxiety and rage on her part, she would get ill or some crisis would happen to prevent me leaving. All of which filled me with guilt and feeling responsible. I just don't know how this could ever get to being a 'normal' adult relationship. I just need to have a reasonable amount of autonomy and independence, this to her is like a declaration of hate and non commitment. Cannot see any way she will compromise. I have left on half a dozen occasions and what then happens is the cause of all her pain becomes about me having left her rather than anything to do with the raging, controlling, possessive and jealous behavior she is gripped by. It is totally off limits. She talks often of the misery I have put her through. So I have felt in a terrible trap, it is absoloutely all or nothing with her. She categorically refuses to have anything to do with therapy or any kind of help. Just needs ONE person in her life. Too much responsibility for one person. No friends no freedom. I am tired of it all. What should I do? I think it is better to be somewhat lonely for a while and mourn the relationship. Is there any other way? I believe I do love her, BUT I can't help her can I?

[fromheeltoheal]

I really do not want to risk going back in there, I have had it. Yes I love her, but cannot go through it all again.

I do think that this might be an opportunity to really end it.

Well there you go Mike.  It's helpful to focus on the goal at emotional times like this.

Couldn't help noticing that she got her mother to call you to ask you to call her tomorrow.  Now there's a need to control yes?  And also, she's likely feeling abandonment right now, regardless of what went down in the relationship, and being triggered would inform her behaviors; you've likely got experience with that from her.

Anyway, I "officially" ended the relationship with my ex by email, because that was the only way I could say what I needed to say at the time, although the relationship had unofficially ended a few days prior.  I was in pure self-preservation mode at the time but didn't feel guilt or regret later, and that's really the key: whatever you do, do something you won't regret or feel guilty about later, focusing on the goal, since grieving and detaching is a process and you will be feeling plenty of emotions as you go through it, no need to pile ones you'd rather not feel on top of them.  Take care of you!

[MikeLondon]

Thanks Heel to Heal
I am grateful for the kind words and great insight from you all. I am not sure that I will phone, I may email, because typically the phone call will end in a circular blame game at best or a rage at worse. So I can certainly put more into an email and it would be a way of being very clear, it would take it out of the realm of a kind of NC or time out (nothing was agreed or discussed obviously), it just kind of happened that way. I feel quite raw and nerves are pretty shot. I am just tired of all the stress and want some peace in my life. I will let you all know how it goes.
Thanks again.

[fromheeltoheal]

I am not sure that I will phone, I may email, because typically the phone call will end in a circular blame game at best or a rage at worse. So I can certainly put more into an email and it would be a way of being very clear, it would take it out of the realm of a kind of NC or time out (nothing was agreed or discussed obviously), it just kind of happened that way. I feel quite raw and nerves are pretty shot. I am just tired of all the stress and want some peace in my life.

An old-school hand written letter is another option, more personal than an email.  Of course it would be nice to sit down and have a civil, adult conversation and end the relationship that way, but those were never happening in my relationship, especially towards the end, so self-preservation called the shots for me.  Best to decide if you feel you have an obligation to do anything, and focus on the long-term implications of whatever you do.

[MikeLondon]

Hi, well it is the next day and I haven't made the phone call. I feel really nervous about making the call. Not quite sure what there is to say. I really just want some peace and quiet away from it all. I agreed that I would call, but maybe the email or letter is a better option at the moment. I don't want to start it all up again. Panicking a bit now.

[stimpy]

Sorry can't really offer any advice, it is just such a tough situation, perhaps there is a way to let her know that you haven't forgotten about the call, but that right now just isn't the right time?

Hope it works out well whatever you do.

[Pretty Woman]

Mike, I will tell you what this is... .

She doesn't want to take any responsibility for raging at you and so she has sent in her proxies (in this case, her mother) to get YOU to reach out to her.

Then, the mother instructs you to call her tomorrow because she is too distraught to talk to you now.

Mike, I hate to say it... .these people are boundary busters. I can guarantee you will not get an apology when you speak with your ex. Ok, you might but she will add a lot of "buts" in there. I am sorry I acted that way, but.

And that is not a sincere apology. They will say whatever they can to suck you back in. It will be good for awhile and then BAM! Each time the raging gets worse.

I think it is great you did not tolerate her piss-poor behavior and raging and removed yourself from it. You seem like a really great person, a stand up guy.

Remember, you don't owe her or anyone else anything. If you do not think she is healthy for you, don't tolerate less than what you know you deserve. You don't have to call if you don't want to, regardless of what you said to her mother. She is not your responsibility.

 

[MikeLondon]

Thanks Stimpy and Pretty Woman
 I just emailed to say just that I haven't forgotten the phone call and that I am not up to a conversation right now. I did touch on the last conversation we had, said I cared for her but that I just need to have some peace free of arguments. I also said that I will email in depth and we can talk at some point, but that I am tired of the problems and that the topics involved we had spoken of before. Not sure what is next but at least it is breathing space... .hopefully. I can honestly not see any mileage in a big phone conversation, I will wait to see what comes back. You are right PW that she is sending in proxies and in fact her Mother on the phone actually repeated some of the fictions about my friends and that I might be running round with other women(total bs) and to not mention the call with my friends who my ex knows, sounds like real manipulation rather than a distraught person. But I agree that I don't have to accept this stuff. Thanks for stand up guy complement, I hope so, but feel a bit less than stand up as I am scared of this 110 pound woman.
thanks again

[Herodias]

You need to also be careful of what you email, because she could use it as harassing her... , tread lightly. I'd almost call when the mother is home so she can't rage at you but tell her you think it's best to part ways- if that's your decision. Good luck.

[Pretty Woman]

I am going to 2nd not putting anything else in writing. They also like to forge things and use your email and edit it. I witnessed that several times in my relationship. Emails from her ex which were manipulated to sway me one way or another.

They are very sneaky.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi, well it is the next day and I haven't made the phone call. I feel really nervous about making the call. Not quite sure what there is to say. I really just want some peace and quiet away from it all. I agreed that I would call, but maybe the email or letter is a better option at the moment. I don't want to start it all up again. Panicking a bit now.

It's helpful to focus on the goal Mike.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you aren't together and weren't communicating, but you never officially broke up, and that's leaving you kind of hanging.  And then her mother called you, which never happens, and you made a commitment to call when you were stressed, out of your comfort zone yes?

So now you have a choice to make.  You could blow it off entirely, don't do anything, and think about how that will feel a few months from now or a year, it's about you and how you feel now.  Or as mentioned you could write her something: there's an acronym around here called BIFF, which is brief, informative, friendly and firm, that could be the structure of the note, doesn't leave anything to argue about or dispute.

And then think about the content and intent of the message.  You feel very strongly about her, a mix of good and bad maybe but in the beginning probably all good, great even.  You might want the best for her.  But the relationship didn't work.  So let her go with grace.  If you sincerely come from that place it won't matter how it's interpreted by her, but it will feel great for you, now and in the future, and it will also provide you with a sense of closure as you continue grieving and detaching.