I'm not sensible

[Depression = 72% of members]

Just have to get rid of this, and I just don't know how to deal with the stuff. Friend came to stay to fix some heating stuff in the flat he has let to a friend. He drank profusely, but we talked well. During the night he paid a visit to his flat (the friend was away) and woke me up to tell me of the awful things that had been done to the flat (not true, just the mess of redecorating). Ok. I calm him down.
He keeps talking about the awful woman he says he has finished with. I can't stand her, and he knows it. She lies, massive alcohol problem, any man is fine ... .
He leaves, only to call and chat on social media several times over the next 2 days. A lot about his tenant and how he is not paying for the flat or the costs. In a very negative and unpleasant manner, which the tenant hasn't deserved. I keep calming him down and try to see that the two manage to talk to each other.
Now he's back drinking with this bloody woman - he posted a pic on her social media.
And I feel used again. I'm glad he started talking again, but this is not what I want. More stress and difficulties. I wish he would get the place in hospital to dry out and then I would feel happier, more at ease. But in the m ilieu he's in now he isn't going to make it. At least I don't feel devastated. But I really would like to be very unpleasant about the woman. He tells us it is better than paying for a prostitute. That is why I'm posting here, to keep me quiet. I can't always be sensible.
 

[foggydew]

Just have to get rid of this, and I just don't know how to deal with the stuff. Friend came to stay to fix some heating stuff in the flat he has let to a friend. He drank profusely, but we talked well. During the night he paid a visit to his flat (the friend was away) and woke me up to tell me of the awful things that had been done to the flat (not true, just the mess of redecorating). Ok. I calm him down.
He keeps talking about the awful woman he says he has finished with. I can't stand her, and he knows it. She lies, massive alcohol problem, any man is fine ... .
He leaves, only to call and chat on social media several times over the next 2 days. A lot about his tenant and how he is not paying for the flat or the costs. In a very negative and unpleasant manner, which the tenant hasn't deserved. I keep calming him down and try to see that the two manage to talk to each other.
Now he's back drinking with this bloody woman - he posted a pic on her social media.
And I feel used again. I'm glad he started talking again, but this is not what I want. More stress and difficulties. I wish he would get the place in hospital to dry out and then I would feel happier, more at ease. But in the m ilieu he's in now he isn't going to make it. At least I don't feel devastated. But I really would like to be very unpleasant about the woman. He tells us it is better than paying for a prostitute. That is why I'm posting here, to keep me quiet. I can't always be sensible.
 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[foggydew]

Have to work this through. He has posted semi naked photos of this woman on her social media site. Only on hers, not his. He says the most awful things about her. How can he do this? Be so disrespectful and yet go to bed with her? And I hate it that she is using stuff I bought him. My first reaction is to go and pick up all the stuff I ever gave him/bought him, because it feels tainted. And then to remove him from my life.
But it doesn't work like that. I can't remove him even if I wanted to, unless I move away. And he will always be there in my memory, 7 long years. It is also not what my aim is. I am still trying to be a good influence... and I think I am still there. He told me some of his best experiences were when we did things together. He phoned the hospital when I was with him. I try to appeal to his intelligence, of which he has plenty, just not emotional intelligence. Maybe a lot of this comes from the alcohol. How can I stick the knife in at this stage when he is waiting for a place in hospital?  This can't be about my wounded feelings, about a kind of jealousy I shouldn't have. If it is jealousy. I would feel better if it were a nice girl he was with.
People don't like him at all. I'm not surprised. They don't understand why I support him - but I also see a person who is perhaps the most disabled I have ever seen - only you can't see it... and it is also dangerous. I am really not sure what forms his hidden aggression could take. Even his brother told me he would be surprised if he reached old age. And there is the nice side too, not just the unpleasant one. Writing about it helps. I hope someone comments.

[ArleighBurke]

My (non-BPD) sister makes the strangest choices. Most of the time I cannot understand why she does the things she does. I love her, and want the best for her, but she just doesn't listen to anyone and is stupid! But I cannot control her. I need to accept that she is allowed to live her life the way she wants to - whether I like it or not. So I don't her how to live. I accept she makes the choices she does. *I* choose not to spend very much time with her, but when I do I'm polite and supportive.

*You* get to choose who is in your life, and who is not, and in what capacity. You may disagree with his behaviours, but they are his to choose. Detach yourself. If you don't like him ranting about stuff, take charge! Listen for a few minutes then tell him you don't want to hear any more about that topic. Redirect him to a more productive topic. If he refuses, move away. Block him on facebook! YOU are in charge of you.

I know it's difficult, but Radical Acceptance is letting him be who he wants to be.

[foggydew]

Thanks for your reply. I do hate how this seems to take over my life at times... I can logically radically accept, but not emotionally. I will have to move myself away mentally... I'll keep trying.

[foggydew]

We talked again today, or chatted, rather. He seems to want the contact again, though he is really still involved in this relationship with a woman who really seems to sell herself to others. I am trying to accept this, and told him I don't want any details. He is still waiting for a place for therapy, and says he's getting discouraged and thinks they don't want him. It all makes me feel so helpless.

[Meili]

It makes you feel helpless, because you are helpless. It's normal to want what we perceive to be the best for those we care about. It's much harder to detach and allow them to make their own mistakes.

Have you figured out what is keeping you from detaching?

[foggydew]

Not really figured... lots of factors, I guess. But now he has told me he has a date for his 8 week therapy, and is going to see about a 10 day detox today. A friend and neighbour of mine is with him now, and these things make me feel better. Kind of sharing responsibility. And I am becoming more able to step back and deal with my own issues... it actually felt pretty good in my therapy session when I told the therapist I couldn't relate to the method he was using that day. After trying for a good 25 mins. He was a bit put out and asked me if I wanted to see him again. I'm not sure, but it really helped to take charge of ME and what I want to do... not just what others want me to do.

[Meili]

That's great to hear!

I'm so glad that you are focusing on you and your needs. Not only will that help you in all areas of your life, but it will also help you in your relationship with your friend.

Putting ourselves first gives us control of our lives back.

[foggydew]

And I'm still stuck. His brother contacted me to see if I had had news (he doesn't keep contact with his family either) so I told him what I knew. Send a message to Friend, too. Which he ignored. But posting showed that justice in the form of electronic tagging has caught up with her. Somehow I've got dragged back in.
I notice I become sensitised. Other friends down there don't answer questions or only send me silly messages, nothing personal. I wish they wouldn't contact me then, it makes me feel rejected.

[Meili]

I'm not sure what you mean about justice, but try to remember that it's not your circus and not your monkeys as the saying goes.

The rejection thing is hard. Because yesterday was Thanksgiving here in the US and it was hard for me because I was alone. I kept reminding myself that my opinion of myself is the only one that matters. No one can reject me unless I allow them to do so.

[foggydew]

Ha, not my circus, true. But... he contacted me yesterday, and we skyped for hours together with mutual  friend staying with him. I was surprised... .but remembered that his 'maybe' girlfriend has been electronically tagged, and it is expensive. He is going into detox next week, has debts and unsure income... and, of course, he keeps talking to me about money, how he can't afford everything, he will stand there with nothing, etc. He called again this morning. Oh yes. I smell rats, but I also want to ensure he does this detox.

[foggydew]

I feel as if I'm groping around in fog. Friend tried to skype with me again, saying he missed me, but he has almost no voice. He sent his passwords for his bank etc to both me and his parents, which I find confusing too. He asked me to check if they work. They do. Now he has disappeared and doesn't answer anything. Maybe he is in hospital, detoxing. I hope so. The no voice thing is tremendously triggering for me - that is how my husband's fatal illness began. Even the time of year is the same. I have decided to go and visit, and see what is going on down there, taking peace offerings to his family, who mostly don't like me. He generally has more contact with me than them, and that isn't much now. But it is about him getting through the therapy and getting the help he needs - and there is really nothing more important to me than that. One of my aims in life. What happens then is not my responsibility, nor is the outcome.
On one level I have reached a fair level of detachment, but the emotional level of connection with illness, alcohol, death - I haven't managed this yet.
And I don't really know how.

[foggydew]

We called the hospital. He's not there. He hasn't contacted any of us, no-one we know has seen him or heard from him. He is alive... there is movement on social media. That at least is relieving. I tried calling, social media... no answer. We all have. I began contact again with his mother ... she didn't want to know much about him. Just leave him when he has little contact? Go and see how he is doing? What he has done is send out requests for money to pay his fines... with no comment or explanation.

[Meili]

I'm sorry that he's worrying you. Sometimes it's better to let them fix their own problems. Like his asking for money, that's his problem, not yours.

I get the wanting him to be healthy. We all want those that we care about to be healthy, but if he isn't doing what he needs to do to take care of himself, there's nothing that you can do.

[foggydew]

True. Tomorrow I am going to stray overnight at the flat - I thought he might have gone to the hospital after all, but he didn't. I talked to him, and he was very subdued and depressed, but began to get almost hysterical at the thought of his longer hospital stay, saying his parents and I must look after his affairs as he didn't want to be bothered. I transferred a small amount of money as goodwill, and told him we would talk more when I see him. He sounded sober. I feel a bit nervous as I hope I can talk to him... or let him talk - about his difficulties and financial affairs. It isn't going to be easy.

[foggydew]

Wello, the weekend is past - and he refused to talk about anything except TV. So I made it into a time out for me, slept a lot, visited friends, and was as non-commital as he was, apart from saying he had to provide information if he wanted me to deal with his affairs when he is in therapy. A day later he sent me a lot of information, and an unfriendly note asking about the money I said I had transferred to his account. Unfriendly! I don't have to give him anything. Monday his mum is taking him to the institute, for about 3 months. He did chat to me about not being able to find anything in his flat, but no personal information at all.  Not sure how I will have to progress with this, but I am getting some kind of distance. When he is actually in therapy, I will be able to realx more. I'll no longer feel responsible.

[patientandclear]

Note the distorting effect of giving someone money who is mismanaging their life. It seems to lead to resentment more than appreciation.

[foggydew]

He resents anyone who is in a better position than he is - it is not just the money thing. It is as if the bad feelings on the inside are turned outward - reminds me of a hedgehog.

[patientandclear]

Right--so are there insights to take away about that role (the giver, caretaker) if it yields resentment rather than enhancing your connection?

[foggydew]

True... .but anything as long as he gets into therapy and has no excuse to back out first... .Only 3 more days, and there is no contact with anyone at the moment. He's probably watching TV all the time and not drinking.

[foggydew]

Yessss! He has gone into therapy today for 8 weeks at least; his mum picked him up to take him there. We have chatted and phoned often, and I seem to have my position as trusted friend back. A bit of mirroring has started on his side... he rejects my suggestions but then brings them out as his own later. We talk about things he likes, books, mathmatics, languages, music, and I can offer what he has not had recently - and enjoy it myself. He wants me to visit, too. I'm satisfied, feel better, but have to take care that I don't get dragged in too much. Now I'll change boards because I don't feel we are about to lose each other - he feels important to me, and I feel important to him. And it is non-threatening.

[Meili]

Hey FD! Sorry that I haven't been around much the past two weeks, life has been hectic for me, but I've caught up on your situation. This struck me:

We talk about things he likes, books, mathmatics, languages, music, and I can offer what he has not had recently - and enjoy it myself. He wants me to visit, too. I'm satisfied, feel better, but have to take care that I don't get dragged in too much.

I don't want to be a downer here, but wanted to caution you that this might merely be the beginning of a recycle. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't relish in it and move to the Improving board, it just means that you are correct in that you have to take care that you don't get dragged in too much. That's the only reason that I pointed it out. We all seem to get sucked in when that honeymoon period starts and we we have the person that we care about back.

So, keep focusing on you and improving your life. We'll see you on the Improving board!

[foggydew]

Thanks, Meili. I was feeling a bit euphoric yesterday, but I'm back down to earth. I don't think this is the beginning of a recycle or honeymoon period of friendship; I may well just be being used or played with. Today I got a text from a mutual friend suggesting that I had told him all kinds of personal details about her - which I have no recollection of doing, but certainly not intentionally. He had placed this info with her on Sunday then chatted to me half the night. She now refuses to talk to me.
Whatever, the real problem was that I was really alone and dependent on him emotionally. I have changed this - or it has changed - and I am slowly changing my attitude and becoming less dependent and more detached. I have a new neighbour and more contact, my stepdaughter contacts me, I'm working a bit again so I don't feel so useless.
It also helps that his family has contact to me to some extent and that I now feel I'm not the only person who realised he has mental health issues. And now he is with professionals. I'll see if he really wants contact or not during the next weeks.

[Meili]

It really does sound like you're making great progress for yourself! I'm so happy to hear that. 

Please keep us updated. 

[foggydew]

Thank you, Meili, I will. Your input has helped me a lot, as it is pretty difficult to be my own critic. I have stopped going to my therapist, as his methods frustrated to me to some extent. They did help as well, but one of the big moments was when I stopped trying to follow his instructions and do what HE wanted and told him - this isn't working, I don't want to do this. He actually was a bit annoyed and showed it, but apologised the next session. It really did me good to be able to explain that even with that he had helped me - to be independent again. And that is how I want to stay, though it won't always be easy.
Meili, keep us informed of your progress too.
And now to the 'improving' board.