Detaching or conflicted?

[beggarsblanket]

I've been posting on the detaching board, but I remain conflicted on one point: hope. I have hope for myself and I have hope for her. There is a breathtakingly gifted young woman hiding inside all of that rage and fear and uncertainty. If she came back into my life, as I expect she will, I would accept on one condition: long-term therapy for both of us. She has done DBT and reported benefit from it, and she expressed a wish to do more of it, so she's not inherently opposed to treatment.

Is this naive of me? I am seeking psychotherapy right now as a consequence of this relationship.

[beggarsblanket]

Maybe I should chalk up this post to the bargaining phase of grief and just move on, but the repartee, which was the focus of the relationship, is hard to let go.

[Warcleods]

Your hypothetical dedication to this person is admirable but unhealthy.  You require psychotherapy as a result of the relationship but I think you are missing the big picture.  This person has brought to the surface old wounds within yourself that need to be addressed.  Consider why you are attracted to this type of dysregulation to begin with.  You're essentially willing to commit to very long or even lifelong therapy with this person, why? You're still too interested in fixing her when you are the one that needs fixing.

As for me, I always longed for her return when there was moments of distancing, but what I noticed was, I didn't want to hear from her at times when things were "okay."  I would find myself making excuses for some time away from her because I just needed me time and I was quite sick of hearing the sob stories.  I have chalked my attraction to this nonsense an addiction.  Healthy relationships don't have a constant of up's and down's

[beggarsblanket]

Your hypothetical dedication to this person is admirable but unhealthy.  You require psychotherapy as a result of the relationship but I think you are missing the big picture.  This person has brought to the surface old wounds within yourself that need to be addressed.  Consider why you are attracted to this type of dysregulation to begin with.  You're essentially willing to commit to very long or even lifelong therapy with this person, why? You're still too interested in fixing her when you are the one that needs fixing.

You may be right in the overall drift of your thinking. The attraction was fed by dysregulation, that I grant. There were significant aspects to the relationship that were independent of the disorder and could not be feigned, and those I am finding it hard to say goodbye to. Perhaps this thread belongs in Detaching after all.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey bb, No, I think you're on the right board to work your way through this issue.  I am under the impression that you are currently apart from your BPDxGF, yet you anticipate that there might be an opportunity to recycle?  Presumably you are interested in a recycle?  If so, what makes you think things would play out differently?  I gather one difference would be ongoing therapy for both of you, if she agreed to that condition?  If so, a lot is riding on therapy, which may be unrealistic for a pwBPD.  If she was previously in therapy, why did she break it off?  You mention that she found DBT beneficial.  If so, why did she stop?  I know that I'm asking a lot of questions, which I hope might help to focus your thinking on next steps.

LuckyJim

[beggarsblanket]

Hey bb, No, I think you're on the right board to work your way through this issue.  I am under the impression that you are currently apart from your BPDxGF, yet you anticipate that there might be an opportunity to recycle?  Presumably you are interested in a recycle?  If so, what makes you think things would play out differently?  I gather one difference would be ongoing therapy for both of you, if she agreed to that condition?  If so, a lot is riding on therapy, which may be unrealistic for a pwBPD.  If she was previously in therapy, why did she break it off?  You mention that she found DBT beneficial.  If so, why did she stop?  I know that I'm asking a lot of questions, which I hope might help to focus your thinking on next steps.

I've had a change in my opinion of the relationship since I started this thread. The material on this website has been eye-opening.

I didn't realize how severe her BPD is, nor how naive I was to think I could help and support her. She talked about her BPD often, including the nasty side, but she scarcely showed the nasty side till the relationship had already collapsed. What's more, I didn't realize that she sought me out for features of my own personality that reinforce the BPD. Nor did I realize that we were both reenacting unhealthy patterns that we have been enacting with others for years.

I won't be approaching her again myself. If she were to come back into my life, I'm not sure what I would say. I have no idea how to propose therapy without sounding like an ass. BPD imposes further burdens on communication that I am not equipped for. Right now a simple "no thank you" seems like the best option.

But there are other problems. Looking back on my romantic life, I'm pretty sure I had one and possibly two other romantic partners with BPD or traits of BPD. I also have another female friend (not a romantic interest) who has it. I evidently draw these women to me. I need to be better prepared for them and not for dreams of a relationship that never existed as I understood it. The relationship hurt me. Based on what I know of BPD now, I can't begin to imagine how it has hurt her. I am in position to repair the hurt, let alone the relationship.

This is a sober reminder about recycling:

Make no mistake about what is happening. Don't be lulled into believing that the relationship is surviving or going through a phase. At this point, there are no rules. There are no clear loyalties. Each successive break-up increases the dysfunction of relationship and the dysfunction of the partners individually - and opens the door for very hurtful things to happen.

bpdfamily.org/2010/12/leaving-person-with-borderline_28.html

[Lucky Jim]

Hey bb, OK, you seem to have a good handle on your situation.  Agree, "no thank you" is an appropriate response.  You may wish to explore is why you got in a r/s (or relationships) with a pwBPD in the first place, which usually leads to one's FOO or some other trauma in one's past.  It's a worthwhile inquiry, in my view.

LuckyJim

[beggarsblanket]

Hey bb, OK, you seem to have a good handle on your situation.  Agree, "no thank you" is an appropriate response.  You may wish to explore is why you got in a r/s (or relationships) with a pwBPD in the first place, which usually leads to one's FOO or some other trauma in one's past.  It's a worthwhile inquiry, in my view.

I agree that it's a worthwhile inquiry. You're probably right that there is trauma. There are several candidate traumatic events, though I have never had them formally assessed.

The truth is that I have barely dated in my adult life. This is due to a variety of reasons, one of the main ones being undiagnosed and untreated bipolar. When I finally got effective treatment (lithium) in late 2014, one of my first priorities was getting a girlfriend. I started trying to date in earnest early last year. I plunged into drama and disappointment with the first woman I met. A counselor who saw me at the time said that my reaction to the failure of the relationship suggests a trauma reaction. At first I didn't believe her. I give her much more credence now.

I started tracking my relationships according to Chris Fraley's website on attachment theory: www.yourpersonality.net/attachment/index.php. I scored in the fearful-avoidant category with the first three women I met. My BPD ex broke the pattern. In her love bombing, she never gave me any reason to doubt her feelings, and she prevented the trauma reaction from ever getting started. That's nonsense, of course. The trauma reaction wasn't prevented. It was only delayed, and when it finally emerged, it was magnified by our chaotic and unethical relationship.

I should probably take this over to Detaching.

[unicorn2014]

I can't speak to whether or not that is naive of you but I can speak to hope.

My T wants me to give up hope on my relationship. That doesn't mean I can't be close friends with this person but she wants me to stop seeing him as a boyfriend, even though he sees me as the love of his life,  in my case because he's not local.

There is a Tibetan Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron, who teaches about hopelessness as being the requirement to things changing. In other words in order for things to have a chance to change we have to utterly give up hope that they will.

I'm now using cognitive behavioral therapy to stop myself from saying "I hope" to my pwBPD.

Things are very difficult right now. I'm learning how to only call him if I want to talk to him, and how to end phone calls after 10 minutes if I feel uncomfortable.

He's even in therapy but he thinks his problem is Aspergers and not borderline or narcissism . He admits he may be antisocial, but that's not what I'm experiencing. When I try to talk to him about the trauma our relationship caused me and the self-blame I'm struggling with he gets upset and so I try to stick to JADE, don't explain. He demands an explanation and I tell him I've already talked to him about this and I'm not going to repeat it. He can't hear that our relationship traumatized me. That's fine, but that's my truth. That's part of the FAST skill of DBT: be truthful. DBT can be helpful for the non too.

I can't speak to the detaching part either. In Al-Anon detachment with love is taught, Randi Kreger also talks about detachment in stop walking on eggshells. I think it is possible to detach and remain in the relationship like people do with with alcoholics.

Do you think that's an option?