She found my book about BPD - how to respond?

[malibu4x]

So... .I've been really trying to work on compassion, empathy, and validation the last few weeks.
Mostly due to a book I've been reading and things I've been reading again here.  Things have been getting better.

Well... .forgot to clear my Amazon browsing history(we share an account) when I went out to see a friend tonight, and she found that I've been looking a number of different books on "Loving someone with BPD" and the like.

Thoughts how to respond?
(Note: she has not been diagnosed professionally but what I see are some signs:
- emotional/mood instability
- feelings of worthlessness
- major depression
- very very rare, but occasional thoughts of suicide when very depressed
- general discontent, keyed towards the negative
- unclear goals - wants a career, but has been saying for years...
- quick to take offense, or to key on some word and turn the conversation south
- impaired relationships: me, her parents, my mom, others... .  but generally high functioning amongst peers and neighbors
On the OTHER HAND
- she does not engage in self-harm, risky behaviors, not overly impulsive, actually
- she is highly empathetic and goes out of her way to help those in need
- she is Type 1 diabetic and that does contribute to moods
- she volunteers regularly with an organization and is in a leadership role)

That said
She reacted tonight via email:

"I saw that you were looking up books on BPD on Amazon.  Do you think I have BPD?  Seriously?

Just as I think you're starting to get the pain you've caused me you go and look for an excuse like this to pin on me so you don't have to take responsibility for the lies and broken promises you've made to me for years that's turned me into a depressed, no self esteem, woman?

I took the test and NO I don't have BPS. <not sure what test?>  I don't swing really high and low at a moments notice <that is exactly what she does>, I don't try to cut myself or have drug, alcohol or sex addictions... .ughhh!<that is true - no issues there>

I am hurt from years of standing by you and supporting you when I did not feel that same support in my times of need.  I am depressed because I feel like many goals and dreams I had for myself are lost because I've had to be there for you and help hold our family together when I again did not feel supported by you.  I feel worthless because I gave so much for so many years and still our family is falling apart.  But even after all I shared in the car tonight with you, I still came in and followed through with our kids and even made them hot coco to show them that you can be really hurt and in a lot of pain but still choose to be kind to those who've been mean to you."

I'm at a loss here. I came home and said "I'm sorry, I don't think you have BPD, but I know that something is wrong with our family. I'm looking for anything that might help us communicate better... ."
Her: "Well, if you take more of a leadership role, take me on dates, and stop fighting with me over petty things that would be a start."
Me: "Yes, I know that those things are important to you."
Her: "Anyway, to have BPD you have to have 9 symptoms"
Me: "I believe that it is 4 or 5 to be formally diagnosed"
Her: "Well, I don't have it. I'm depressed, I'm dealing with diabetes, and a husband and kids that are constantly fighting with me about everything."
Me: "I hear you, all of those things just really suck, and I know how tired you are from all of the fighting."
Me:  "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you"
Her: "Good night"

Any thoughts on how I could have handled better? (or how to talk about this again with her tomorrow?)

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[Jessica84]

Wow, I think you did great! She opened up and shared her feelings and you validated her very well. When I first read the title I panicked a little for you. That could've gone really, really bad, but you handled it well. 

[malibu4x]

Thanks Jessica for the kind words.

I feel like I'm missing something.  I'm not sure.  I just really feel sick to my stomach and so worn down and burnt out.

Said some prayers, did a little meditation/mindfulness exercises this morning, and feeling a little better, but just feeling awful.

Trying to be positive but really struggling and worried about the day ahead.

[Sunfl0wer]

Idk, if I were trying to come up with an honest response to that AND not appear too offensive... .

I may explain how after reading the books, she certainly does not have cutting and some extreme behaviors.  That maybe there are some traits like moodiness, etc, yet not looking to diagnose anyone, kinda isn't the point in reading... .that kinda doesn't matter so much.  In any event, the fact that the book seems geared towards the most tricky of communication/interpersonal issues a couple may have is what appeals to me.  So if I can learn about some of the most challenging relational dynamics, then apply that to us who don't have it that badly, maybe something in the info could help even more than the book says it could?

Idk, kinda didn't come out exactly right but maybe there is something in it that can be pulled and tweaked with.

[Skip]

    It was recommended to me to read about how to be a more sensitive and attentive husband.

[malibu4x]

Thanks guys for the ideas.  Really appreciated.

[Swhitey]

Wow... .just wow... .I could swear, under oath, that those are the exact same things my girlfriend says to me. ME, not keeping promises, all the compromises SHE has made, She feels like I don't support her needs and wants, She is depressed because of me, and "look at how strong I am, being cheerful in front of the kids, when I am in so much pain"

You handled it very well, very well indeed. the only advise I could suggest is to be more diligent about keeping your resources out of sight, but I think you are already doing that. My girlfriend found the wikipedia page in the browser history a while back when I was just learning what Borderline Structure is, I got defensive and it blew up... .

Keep doing what you're doing 

[malibu4x]

Follow up / update to this thread

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=302389.0

Yesterday before everything went down, things were going great... .much better than they have been in some time... .  (although- she had a rough night at dinner with our son b/c he didn't want to eat his carrots - resulted in major breakdown).

BUT>>  I was able to validate and comfort her upstairs privately when she was crying over it... .  (usually I would dismiss or blow up at how "she was ruining dinner over such a little thing"    Baby steps.

Resulted in me suggesting that we grab lunch tomorrow for a quick date to just get out of the house together.  She said OK, that sounds good.

Well... .long story short I came home to her finding out that I had been doing research on BPD and her having a meltdown over it.  I was sick to my stomach, didn't really know how to respond, but did the best I could. Didn't go over great... .had a hard time sleeping and really didn't want to get out of bed today, but pulled myself together.(we are sleeping in separate rooms now)

Well,  I came down for breakfast  this morning and she got up and left without looking at me a soon as arrived.  Let her go, but after tried to stop by the room and talk with her but she told me to go away.

So, what to do about our lunch date? Arggg  I'm assuming she doesn't want to see me / talk to me whatever... .  so I go about my work (I work from home).  Around 1p I have a work call that is running over and  realize it is getting late, so I decide to run to the local deli and at least grab some sandwiches.  Left the house - she is in her room this whole time.

While I'm at the deli - I get a long email about how I've destroyed her, sucked her will to live, all of my promises are BS, etc.
Then she says:"How am I supposed to trust you, when you can't even keep a simple lunch date?  I can't keep doing this malibu -    I'm done.    I want a divorce."

More to it, but that is the basic gist. 
I want to scream.  I want to shout, but take a deep breath as I'm waiting for the hoagies.
I say a quick prayer on the drive home (eyes open)
I come in with lunch, and am ready to face the fire (as I can be - don't have a choice)... .

HER:  "I already ate it is like 1:30p!" 
ME: I know - it is late.  I'm sorry - I had a work call that was running over, so I thought I would at least run and grab something for us. 
HER: Its too late!
ME:   I'm so sorry that I've hurt you.  I'm sorry about the book.  I'm not saying you have BPD at all, but it was recommended to me as a good resource for couples that have really challenging communications problems.  I know you have seen some changes in the way I communicate already in the last few weeks. I know that as you have said so.
HER: It is too little too late.  I'm just done.  I hate you.  I hate what you do to me.
ME:  I'm sorry that I've hurt you.
HER: If you cared, you would still keep our lunch date. If your call was running over, you could at least text me to say so... .  it is not that hard to just text me... .  why can't you do something as simple as text me?
ME:  I'm so sorry.  When you left at breakfast this morning I assumed you didn't want to see me today.
HER: Well after last night I assumed you would step up your game - all the more reason when you hurt me so deeply to show me that you CARE, and FOLLOW THROUGH on your promises. .

I see her point, but this is soo hard!

Convo went on a little more, but I feel like she is not going to file or anything right away... .but she is just feeling so much pain, so much depression, all of these things that she blames all on me.  I know that I'm not the cause... .but it is so hard.  One step forward, three steps back.   Tomorrow is another day.

[livednlearned]

Were you feeling guilty about the book and maybe overly worried about it, which led to avoiding her? I guess I'm wondering why not text her to say, Hey, I'm going to run out and get us deli lunch. My meeting ran late, so I'll be here at 1:30pm with food for us.

Or something along those lines.

There is this other thing to validation that helped me -- it's called switch tracking. Often when someone gives us feedback, we switch the topic, and that can be a way to invalidate. It looks like you do it in your conversation with her. She is focused on you being late, and then you introduce the book.

Then she kitchen sinks you with divorce.

You could be right that she is bothered by the book. It might also be fine to focus on what she has put on the table, which is the no text/late text. By introducing a new topic, it stirs the pot and maybe even more importantly, gets her off the hook about communicating what she is genuinely feeling, and what those feelings are about.

It seems like people with BPD, and people in relationships with them, tend to engage in switch tracking like champions. Knowing it is happening can make it easier for us to see the mechanics of how we begin to argue and escalate things.

Also, as an aside. Going through a divorce is a task that involves a lot of follow through. It doesn't sound like she has much of that. Even if she consults a lawyer, or files, or talks about it, do you have real concerns that she would go through with it? My sense is she uses it as a way to bargain for better treatment.

[malibu4x]

Hi LnL

Yes, you are right - I had asked her on the date just a few hours before she found out about the book later that evening.
Then when she got enraged at me, I tried to handle in the best way I could, but things were very tense to following morning (the day of our lunch date), and so I did basically blow it off because I was afraid of interacting with her - not sure what to say about the book as it would come up in conversation... .  I should have just at least texted her as you say. 

Good point on the switch tracking.  I'm good at it, and she is great as well.  Good to be aware of that.

I agree with you that she is using divorce as a bargaining chip right now.  She has been talking about it here and there for years, but lately she seems more serious... .but not resolved to follow through quite yet.  Today she kept saying "my heart is closed to you, and I can't open it, because I keep getting hurt".   

One of the big things that she is hurt about is our Dating.  I'm very inconsistent with weekly dates (which is something she talks a lot about needing).  And here comes my excuse - It is really hard to be consistent with dates when we often have to cancel last minute due to the latest blow up.  I feel if I can get better at validating her emotions, the escalations with diminish and we will be able to feel good about going out... .     Anyway, going to try to be a lot more consistent there.

[livednlearned]

In the book Beyond Borderline (about people whose BPD traits are in remission), one woman talks about how she felt she could control the pain if she gave people a reason to leave her. That giving them a reason would be so much more tolerable than having them just leave for no apparent reason.

I wonder if your wife is doing something similar. Telling you she wants to go on a date, then blowing up at you last minute so there is a reason for eventual abandonment or reason she cannot trust someone (both are likely things she fears chronically).

This is hard to wrap logic around. It also struck me as a perfect example of feelings = facts.

For your wife, she feels abandoned by you (which fits with her internal state - she also abandons herself). She tells you what you need to do to fix it, and then, to keep things consistent with her internal state (e.g. I'm someone who always gets abandoned), she blows up and the date falls apart, and things go back to being awful like she knows they will always be.

Meanwhile, she blames you  (easier than blaming herself). The part that you have control over is whether you take part in this dynamic. You can opt out by recognizing that she is trying to shape her belief system to reflect the depth of self-loathing she feels. In effect, blaming you for something she does to herself.

As her loved one, you cannot point any of this out to her because it amounts to, "You're making all of this up," which would upset anyone to hear!

Which is why the two-pronged approach to deal with this can be: validate her feelings (she genuinely feels xyz, which substitute for fears of abandonment and feelings that she deserves to be abandoned) and depersonalize the attacks (they represent her belief system). You can own the parts that are reasonable, like realizing, "You know what. You're right. I can see why that would upset you. I don't know why I didn't just text you -- it was insensitive and I'm a work in progress. I'll try better next time."

And then you go on your merry way, being your awesome self

[Grey Kitty]

My experience with my wife was that talking about BPD with her only made things worse. (There were one or two times she was open and accepted it... .but those were followed by dozens that sounded more like dysregulations)

So I just stopped discussing it with her. Here are a couple things I said to shut it down. Perhaps they will help you:

"I can't be both your husband and your therapist at the same time, and I choose to be your husband."

"I don't know if you have BPD or not, and I'm not a therapist who could diagnose you anyways."

After saying things like that once or twice, I'd just go to straight boundary enforcement: "I won't fight with you about this anymore."

... .and there is a lot of truth behind that, as I had decided by that time that I didn't really care whether she had BPD or not--I cared if she behaved kindly and lovingly toward me or if she behaved abusively toward me. And the more I focused my attention and efforts on specific behavior instead of a larger disease or diagnosis, the better things went.

And I also made sure to do a better job of covering my tracks about being here on these forums and any BPD based reading I did, as I didn't want to trigger THAT fight anymore. I also made sure that *I* never raised the topic of BPD with her again.

[malibu4x]

Which is why the two-pronged approach to deal with this can be: validate her feelings (she genuinely feels xyz, which substitute for fears of abandonment and feelings that she deserves to be abandoned) and depersonalize the attacks (they represent her belief system). You can own the parts that are reasonable, like realizing, "You know what. You're right. I can see why that would upset you. I don't know why I didn't just text you -- it was insensitive and I'm a work in progress. I'll try better next time."

Love this!  Definitely need to kind of repeat stuff like this in my head so it just comes out naturally in the moment.

[malibu4x]

... .and there is a lot of truth behind that, as I had decided by that time that I didn't really care whether she had BPD or not--I cared if she behaved kindly and lovingly toward me or if she behaved abusively toward me. And the more I focused my attention and efforts on specific behavior instead of a larger disease or diagnosis, the better things went.

I like that view.

My approach this weekend has been kind of along the lines of Skip and Sunflower's ideas earlier in the thread.
"I'm not saying you have BPD at all.  But one of the therapists I have been interviewing recommended to me as it teaches skills on how deal with some of the tough communications challenges we have been having - specifically around me being more sensitive and able to remain calm in the moment with you."  (which is something she has been asking me to do - stay calm and not add more fuel to the fire when she is already angry, sad, etc.)

[livednlearned]

Is she continuing to engage you about the book?

[Lockjaw]

You know she could just have traits of BPD, and not full blown BPD. My GF doesn't think she has BPD either.

[malibu4x]

Is she continuing to engage you about the book?

She hasn't brought up the book anymore... .(Thank God!)

We have been able to have some really good heart to hearts this weekend.
I caught myself about 10 mins into the first convo starting to invalidate and it started going south, but was able to mentally take a step back and do lots of practice listening, validating, etc.

She mentioned how she feels like she is not a priority b/c I'm not consistent with several things that she has asked me to take more seriously that are important to her.
- date night
- or just doing little things to make her feel like she is a priority to me. 
- going over our budget and saving for vacations
- backing her up in front of kids
- not "reacting" to her, not raising voice

She said I feel like you give your 100% to work - which is great b/c we need the income - but I feel like I'm often an afterthought.   She said - if you had the track record at work that you do with the things you've committed to doing with me, do you think you would still have a job?   (Touche' - As I paused and tried to internalize and put myself in her shoes, I could see why she was feeling pain, betrayal, etc.   (Even though if her blowing off certain things would not cause me to emotionally 'turn' on her - I could see her point).

Our talks brought us closer, and by last night we were talking about Christmas vacation options.  Really an amazing breakthrough.   I'm still sleeping upstairs, but we are planning on redo-ing our lunch date tomorrow. 

[malibu4x]

You know she could just have traits of BPD, and not full blown BPD. My GF doesn't think she has BPD either.

Good point.  May totally be the case, but there are a few traits that seem to be somewhere on the spectrum.
 
At any rate, I'm finding that listening better, validating (and not JADE'ing), and practicing mindfulness seem to be helping our relationship. 

[Grey Kitty]

She said I feel like you give your 100% to work - which is great b/c we need the income - but I feel like I'm often an afterthought.   She said - if you had the track record at work that you do with the things you've committed to doing with me, do you think you would still have a job?

You know... .what she said there isn't what I'd call fighting fair. Not even close.

Her FEELING is valid. She does feel like an afterthought.

Her conclusion that if you gave what you do to her at work, you would be fired is twisted and abusive, not valid at all.

I don't know... .but my bet is that if your boss treated you like she treats you, you would be able to file a harassment lawsuit with your employer!

I'm saying this to point out that there is a double standard, and she's not handling her feelings in a very productive way here.

Remember, she's the pwBPD, you are the non- and if you want things to get better, you have to lead the way.

So don't point out the double standard--that is invalidating and starts a fight.

Keep your validation aimed at her feelings--that she's not a priority, that she's not important.

Try not to engage on the "extras" she pulls in to justify her feelings, to prove that you are acting in a way to make you responsible for her feelings. Because either way you engage, you lose. If you JADE about it, because you didn't cause her feelings, she's invalidated and upset. If you apologize for doing what you didn't do, it doesn't go any better. You will end up conceding to demands you cannot meet, and even if you do, her feelings aren't something you can stop... .and if she still feels that way or feels that way again, she can blame you again. In a new way if she needs to.

[isilme]

Hi malibu,

I kept my amazon account separate for this reason - and for birthdays and such, but it's just too much to risk. H does not know I suspect BPD, that I come here to talk about it, and when asked, ever, I tell him I have a place I go to discuss issues from my BPD-abusive childhood.  I freely talk about BPD, but only in the frame of discussing toxic behavior from my parents.

I think you handled it well as you can.  Each of these situations come up on the fly, and unless you can see the future, you just have to work on re-programming your instinctual responses.  My instinctual responses were a big part of the issue, because I wanted to defend my point of view, which done poorly, is invalidating. 

pwBPD need validation in more than just our words.  It sounds like your wife needs some validation of her with physical presence, whether it;s lunch or how you spend time after work.  H gets upset with me for "abandoning" him to read a book or scroll through facebook or Pinterest.  He can be playing a video game, but I am (at times) supposed to be participating with him by watching so he does not feel alone.  I can't and won't always do this, but I do try to let him know I am in the room.  I NEED my reading time.  It's my only time I feel I can recharge, and TV just puts me to sleep.  H also feels abandoned if I fall asleep before him.  It's complicated.  So your wife's accusations of not doing enough is just based on her needy perceptions, and at times there is little WE can do about it, other than validate that they feel that way, but that we can't change it for them.

[malibu4x]

I don't know... .but my bet is that if your boss treated you like she treats you, you would be able to file a harassment lawsuit with your employer!

... .don't point out the double standard--that is invalidating and starts a fight.

Keep your validation aimed at her feelings--that she's not a priority, that she's not important.

Try not to engage on the "extras" she pulls in to justify her feelings, to prove that you are acting in a way to make you responsible for her feelings.

Thanks Gray Kitty - great points to keep in mind and help me break through a bit of the FOG. 

[malibu4x]

My instinctual responses were a big part of the issue, because I wanted to defend my point of view, which done poorly, is invalidating. 

Thanks isilme - 
This is a big area of focus for me right now - Therapist is helping there as well.

Thanks everyone for the responses and support!