I'm Not Sure where I fit

[Anna2]

Good morning,

Yes, I certainly believe that I need help!

I'm mother of three, two sons (20 and 18) and one daughter (13) all of them leaving at home with me. About two years ago, my older son started a relationship with a two years older girl, that ... .needless to say changed him, his life and ours "as a family". I've seen her "act up", I heard some of their fights (everybody has). He has become isolated, depressed, angry, unreliable, a very much different person. My husband (soon to be ex) moved back to his home Country last January and never came back.

I've ended up seeing a Psychologist who quickly referred me to a Psychiatrist for me to get treated for depression (I'm doing better). I tried to take my kids with me, but (as you can imagine) it was a useless effort. Nonetheless, both my Psychologist and Psychiatrist suggested the "idea" that SHE might have BPD, and suggested for me to read "Stop walking on Eggshells" and "The Essential Family Guide ... .". Which I did (although I certainly have to read them again ... .) and this is how, I'm here now.

And hear comes my first question: Reading the books I've recognized so many of the "BP Traits" in my own son, that made me wonder if it could be HIM (not her?) or BOTH (?). How do you tell the "difference"? Is there a real "difference" between a person with BPD and a person (Non-BP) who "willingly" has been sucked into the vacuum of Oz"?

I really do not know. One thing I know that my son wasn't like this before he met her, and I'm not talking about his relationship with me (he has accused me of being "jelous"  but with everybody else. He was loved by everybody (Guys and Girls), he had many friends, he used to race in motocross, he planed to study Architecture ... .everybody wanted to be with him ... .and NOW he's completely alone having pushed away anybody and everybody that told him to "leave her" (including best friends and brother) ... .

Reading the books I understand that basically there is no way to "convince" a BP to seek professional help ... .just as well (I'm assuming) there is no way for me to convince my son, right? I am scared for his mental and fiscal safety.

How can I help my son to get untangled? ... .How should I read the books? As if I am the Non-BP and my son IS (because deeply involved) ... .How do I help myself and help my other two kids?

 






   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mutt]

Hi Anna2,



I'd like to welcome you to  bpdfamily. I'm glad that you decided to join us, it helps to talk. We're not professionals and can't diagnose. Did the P give her a diagnosis, they generally don't give a diagnosis if they don't see the person. What we can look at are BPD traits, I don't know if I'd go as far as a PD ( personality disorder ) he doesn't enjoy the things that he used to to, his mood is low and he's disconnecting from people, it sounds like could be depression, again I'm not qualified, has your son seen an MD or GP? Is he getting treated for depression?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome Anna2   
I'm sorry about the problems with your son's behavior.

And hear comes my first question: Reading the books I've recognized so many of the "BP Traits" in my own son, that made me wonder if it could be HIM (not her?) or BOTH (?). How do you tell the "difference"? Is there a real "difference" between a person with BPD and a person (Non-BP) who "willingly" has been sucked into the vacuum of Oz"?

Could your son be condependent and perhaps enmeshed with his girlfriend? You might want to read the information about codependency at the links below and come back and tell us if you think your son might fit the description of being codependent with her.
.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111772.0

. . . I am scared for his mental and fiscal safety.

Are you concerned about your son's physical safety?  Is his girlfriend physically abusive?

How can I help my son to get untangled? ... .How should I read the books? As if I am the Non-BP and my son IS (because deeply involved) ... .How do I help myself and help my other two kids?

It's common for people to have a couple BPD traits.  It is only when there are a certain number of them that a label of BPD is attached.  Best to not get too hung up on labels.  Better to focus on dealing with behaviors.

You can't change anyone.  You only have control over the way you interact and react. By setting boundaries and using some strategic communication tools, you can make things better for you. There are some links to helpful lessons to the right of this post.  The links below are, also, good places to start.

VALIDATION

COMMUNICATIONS OVERIVEW

SETTING  BOUNDARIES

The two threads below can be helpful for you to avoid arguments and drama.  At the end of the article on the Karpman Drama Triangle, there is information about healthy communication triangles.

AVOIDING CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS
bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0;all

KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE
https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

As some point, if you want to focus more on your son's girlfriend, you may want to post on the "Healing and Coping Board".  People post there about problems with their daughter-in-laws.  Many of them have similar situations, where their sons changed after marrying a BPD woman.  Many times, the son't partner convinces the son to abandon their family.

[livednlearned]

You're going through a lot! Soon to be divorced, single mama, three teens/young adults living at home, and a GF who could be BPD. Not easy. It's good that you are taking care of yourself and seeking support from a professional.

What are the BP traits that you see in your son?

When the GF and your son argue, how do you and the other kids respond?

I'm sorry for what brings you here, and glad you found the site.



 

[Anna2]

 everybody,

I'm happy to have found you 

I really need to be able to talk with somebody that can understand the situation. I know I have a lot of studying to do (starting from How to use this "system" but meanwhile, if you don't mind, I'll try to respond to each one of you ... .as I can

The BP traits that I see in my son are: Unstable self-image or sense of self; Impulsivity in spending and reckless driving; a couple of suicidal threats; difficulty controlling anger

On the other hand,the BPD traits that I've seen in his GF are: "ALL" except 7 and 9 for which I couldn't say ... .

I do not know how the others have reacted "on the spot" at the various incidences that they have witnessed, the only thing I do know is that everybody eventually told him to "leave her". I know that many do not want to be with him if he takes her along, many have "forbitten" her to enter their homes ... .and his brother (who adored him) is trying to push me to kick him out of our house. As far as me, I haven't have had the "pleasure" to personally witness her "outbursts", but I've overheard the yelling and fighting over the phone (my son responding ... .) ... .

I scared of my son Physical Safety ... .because of reckless driving (he's already destroyed my car and more) and because he has already told me more then once "... .I'll trow myself off a bridge ... .!" ... .just recently has "bought" a professional-barber razor ... .carries a baseball bat in the car ... .she has been Physically Abusive (not much, but Yes). She's a "model" (wishing to get to "Victoria Secrets Modeling" and supposedly studying Psychology ... .He has gotten in physical fights (come back home with the shirt covered in blood) to defend "her" ... .

Yes, I think my son is Codependent and ... .depressed. (So am I ... .I feel I cannot abandon my son, no matter what! ... .I'm Italian born and raised, lived in California for about 10 years, married a Canadian and ... .have been living in Costa Rica for the last 11 years)

He refused to keep seeing the Psychologist after the first 2 meetings, he refused to come to the Psychiatrist (last minute cancellation).

HE DOES NOT TALK TO ME ABOUT ANYTHING ... .every time I try to start a conversation he gets defensive, angry ... .and/or does not even "lift his eyes" from whatever he's doing ... .(texting her ... .) ... .HOW CAN I IMPROVE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN ME AND HIM IF HE WON'T EVEN TALK TO ME?


 

[livednlearned]

For me, the root of healing codependent behaviors is learning to have self-respect. Speaking as someone who also struggles with codependence, I believe the root of many problems I had with my son (BP traits) is that I did not want him to experience negative emotions (sadness, loneliness, fear) because I was uncomfortable with those feelings myself.

It sounds trite to say "take care of yourself" when your loved one talks about throwing himself off a bridge, because your instinct is to hold him as he struggles to take the leap. And yet, taking care of yourself is often the key to helping your loved one. If he struggles to control his emotions and thoughts and behaviors, and you enable that lack of control, then he is in a world without any adults who can provide structure and stability. It's pretty scary for them.

So, in that sense, setting boundaries is not about abandoning them. It is about giving them a choice to be safe (abiding by your boundaries), or test the limits out there.

For example, he destroyed your car once. How does he get around now?

How do you try to talk to him?

Is it time for him to live on his own?

[Anna2]

Yes, I agree ... .I obviously have an on-going issue with boundaries ... .

Funny how his brother tells me "... .mom, you didn't even get upset when he destroyed your car ... ." and a few days later my older son having the guts to blame me for "not getting my balls out and MAKE his brother lend him his bike ... ."  

My daughter (so far "a Saint" feels ... .very lonely (to say the least)

Sure, it is time for him to move out, he was about to 1 year before my husband "left" (I eventually had to kick him out after 2 years of waiting ... .) and before my son met his GF. Then one day he said: "... .mom I do not want to leave you all alone (when father goes ... .) with brother and little-sister ... ."  

AND THAT WAS THE BEGINNING ... .

Actually I still believe that he really meant that when he said it back then, but things took a much different turn.

The separation between my husband and I has not been at all easy, nor friendly (as I had hoped for it to be). And as I said to my middle son not too long ago ... .I already had to kick your father out last year, do not ask me to kick your brother out, now!

I do not feel that I have the strength for it, not now, not again ... .not yet.

How do I try to talk to him, I do not know anymore, but obviously I'm doing it wrong. What ever it is that I'm doing, it is not working at all!

I've always believed that you can never find the solution to a problem unless you KNOW what the problem is. I'm getting there (hopefully) and understanding that at this point it certainly implies fixing-me first.