What should I think?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Where is this break up going? I find myself having to ask that question due to many factors most people don't have to deal with. The facts of her BPD, our tumultuous relationship, breaking up and getting back together several times. Each time I say it's different, and it is, except for the same outcomes happen. I said our last break up was awful we won't get back together, and we did. She told me to not text her again and I didn't and we still got back together 2 months later.

And now once again we have had the worst break up of our history. And I don't know how to think or feel or act. I don't know what she thinks or feels. Especially due to BPD's having a distorted view of the past and situations. Does she truly think I'm somehow to blame? No normal person could? She's certainly acting as if I'm the bad guy though. A quick analogy is when me and my first long time girlfriend broke up it was different. Similar in many ways but different in the fact she still talked to me, she should empathy, she felt bad I was going through losing her, even though I made my fair share of mistakes. She gave me closure in a kind of way as saying our relationship had run its course, she didn't love me that way anymore. And yes this was a month or so after we initially broke up, but that's the time it means something. I always think break ups aren't real until you spend some time without that person and get a perspective that it's truly over.

Now jump to this break up, our fourth. I made contact one week after leaving hour apartment, due to my exes emotional infidelity and blowing up on me in a very cruel way. I simply asked for a few minutes of time to collect some odds and ends I left and to speak with her about any mail I would be receiving at our address. She was rude, said she couldn't talk, she was kinda busy, etc. she knows I know she wasn't working or had her kids that day, so she was saying that in the context of trying to sound like she was with someone or something. I took the bait and drove by her car was home so if she was busy, someone had to be there, I don't know. So during those texts she said she would put my stuff in a box and we would talk later about it and the mail. I said before Monday would be best. I didn't hear from her at all Saturday or Sunday until I text her at 540 asking if she would have some free time. I got no response back. It's now 7 on Monday and she has not replied.

I don't know why, she at least responded the first time and said we would talk later and she would get my things, and now two days later she won't respond? It makes no sense. Is she trying to hurt me, doesn't want to see me, etc? If that's the case she could say something and I could try to figure some other way out. Like after two years, and everything we have been through I though I had earned some goodwill, especially as seeing as I'm the non perpetrator of our break up, didn't want it, wanted us to be happy and move in together and move forward. We were only one month away from that, and now everything is up in smoke because of her decisions that still don't make sense to me. Also I've posted this before but our picture and profile pictures remain up on hers and my social media and we are still friends on there. She accused my mom of messaging her some weird picture over and over, my mom got a Facebook virus would never do that, and complained to me when I text her instead of just unfriending her. If it bothered her so why wouldn't she just do that, she's my mom, and I'm apparently nothing more than an ex to easily leave and forget.

This whole thing has left me drained, hurt, and confused, just like every other time. I just wish I could somehow get something from her, the kindness of doing what she said she would, at least would show she had respect for our love and what we use to have. Basically it seems like she cares about none of that now. Thoughts?

[KarmasReal]

Where is this break up going? I find myself having to ask that question due to many factors most people don't have to deal with. The facts of her BPD, our tumultuous relationship, breaking up and getting back together several times. Each time I say it's different, and it is, except for the same outcomes happen. I said our last break up was awful we won't get back together, and we did. She told me to not text her again and I didn't and we still got back together 2 months later.

And now once again we have had the worst break up of our history. And I don't know how to think or feel or act. I don't know what she thinks or feels. Especially due to BPD's having a distorted view of the past and situations. Does she truly think I'm somehow to blame? No normal person could? She's certainly acting as if I'm the bad guy though. A quick analogy is when me and my first long time girlfriend broke up it was different. Similar in many ways but different in the fact she still talked to me, she should empathy, she felt bad I was going through losing her, even though I made my fair share of mistakes. She gave me closure in a kind of way as saying our relationship had run its course, she didn't love me that way anymore. And yes this was a month or so after we initially broke up, but that's the time it means something. I always think break ups aren't real until you spend some time without that person and get a perspective that it's truly over.

Now jump to this break up, our fourth. I made contact one week after leaving hour apartment, due to my exes emotional infidelity and blowing up on me in a very cruel way. I simply asked for a few minutes of time to collect some odds and ends I left and to speak with her about any mail I would be receiving at our address. She was rude, said she couldn't talk, she was kinda busy, etc. she knows I know she wasn't working or had her kids that day, so she was saying that in the context of trying to sound like she was with someone or something. I took the bait and drove by her car was home so if she was busy, someone had to be there, I don't know. So during those texts she said she would put my stuff in a box and we would talk later about it and the mail. I said before Monday would be best. I didn't hear from her at all Saturday or Sunday until I text her at 540 asking if she would have some free time. I got no response back. It's now 7 on Monday and she has not replied.

I don't know why, she at least responded the first time and said we would talk later and she would get my things, and now two days later she won't respond? It makes no sense. Is she trying to hurt me, doesn't want to see me, etc? If that's the case she could say something and I could try to figure some other way out. Like after two years, and everything we have been through I though I had earned some goodwill, especially as seeing as I'm the non perpetrator of our break up, didn't want it, wanted us to be happy and move in together and move forward. We were only one month away from that, and now everything is up in smoke because of her decisions that still don't make sense to me. Also I've posted this before but our picture and profile pictures remain up on hers and my social media and we are still friends on there. She accused my mom of messaging her some weird picture over and over, my mom got a Facebook virus would never do that, and complained to me when I text her instead of just unfriending her. If it bothered her so why wouldn't she just do that, she's my mom, and I'm apparently nothing more than an ex to easily leave and forget.

This whole thing has left me drained, hurt, and confused, just like every other time. I just wish I could somehow get something from her, the kindness of doing what she said she would, at least would show she had respect for our love and what we use to have. Basically it seems like she cares about none of that now. Thoughts?

[rfriesen]

This whole thing has left me drained, hurt, and confused, just like every other time. I just wish I could somehow get something from her, the kindness of doing what she said she would, at least would show she had respect for our love and what we use to have. Basically it seems like she cares about none of that now. Thoughts?

What if you can't get that from her? It's hard to accept that someone we love and feel deeply invested in simply will not or cannot give us what we feel is fair and what we want so badly. But sometimes that's the situation we're confronted with. Has she given you reason to believe that she will show you the kindness and respect you hope for? In a genuine and sustained way that will leave you satisfied that you have closure and can move on? If not, are you able to contemplate having to give yourself closure, and find that kindness and respect from within?

[KarmasReal]

Honestly I would love to say yes, I am able to, but at this moment I truly can't. I know life is not fair and many people have to deal with things like this and worse, but I just don't understand why it has to be this way. Nobody does something for no reason, so what's the reasoning behind being hurtful And spiteful to someone you've already hurt and someone who did nothing but love and care for you? It makes zero sense in anyway. Many things she did were obvious for reasons later on, she love using reverse psychology to get things. To say one thing to get another response. Is she trying to evoke a response now?

If she doesn't want to respond to me or give me any of my things she could just say that. Or even take a step further, delete our pictures, block me, cut me out if your going to, at least that's a form of closure I can deal with. But this leaving everything up, and she's been posting since the break up she knows it's there, but not responding or ignoring me is some kind of mind game. It has to be, that's what she does, and there's no other explanation for it. Either cut it all out or be civil and talk to me. This half in half out pseudo break up, is the worst, and they have all been kind of like this, that's what makes it harder, thinking is she gonna pop up here in a week, or am I never going to see her again. The limbo is absolutely awful. The fact that she can't even have enough respect and empathy for me someone she supposedly loved is a close second.

[Mutt]

It makes no sense. Is she trying to hurt me, doesn't want to see me, etc?

You mentioned emotional infidelity, I don't know your history, I can feel you that she's avoiding you because it's too emotional, she'd have to confront feelings of shame.

[KarmasReal]

Hey mutt, for the emotional infidelity she was texting a coworker more like her boss whom she had a fling with when we were broken up last time. It looked as though it was more him texting her but she was responding. She didn't apologize or make any amends toward me she more or less just explained why she had been attracted to him and she was defensive. Then she began to drink and since she wasn't doing anything towards making things better for us, I took it as a sign she really just didn't care that much about being with me. although we have been together through two years and 3 break ups, and were on the verge of moving into house together. She drank more and just became emotionally shut off and cruel, dead eyes, as she told me about different "encounters" she had when we were broken up. I don't know why, she just started telling me about them in detail, I guess to hurt me, because I was leaving? But I was only leaving because of what she had done and the fact she didn't want time say she was wrong, or worry about my feelings on anything at all. If she had attempted to it might have just been a rough patch to work through instead of this.

Yes I believe she's ashamed of what she does, and what she says, the only reason she said it was she was drunk, just like other times she has been this way. I was thinking she is avoiding me because she feels ashamed or guilty too. She lashes out because she knows all the wrong she's done and I haven't. But why keep the reminders of us up? Shouldn't that shame translate into trying to forget me and everything that's happened? I remember the next morning I asked if she had anything to say and she said after all the things she said she doesn't know how we could work. I took that as her saying there was no point in even attempting to work it out so I left. I gave her every chance I could, so if she's so ashamed why didn't she take it?

Also no one outside of me and my family knows the truth, she will never tell her family, friends, coworkers, because she is ashamed!

[Mutt]

You gave her a lot of chances, I think that's pretty reasonable.

She drank more and just became emotionally shut off and cruel, dead eyes, as she told me about different "encounters" she had when we were broken up.

BPD is unstable interpersonal r/s's, shutting down and trying to get you angry at her is destructive behavior in a r/s. A pwBPD don't think highly of themselves, have low self worth and low self esteem, maybe she thought that you were too good for her, there's shame associated with failed r/s's too, it's another failed r/s, it has to be hard to own that.

[rfriesen]

But why keep the reminders of us up? Shouldn't that shame translate into trying to forget me and everything that's happened? 

I understand your reasoning here and it makes sense. But it's also important to see that it's your reasoning and logic, not hers. If you both reasoned about behaviour and feelings in the same way, this relationship likely wouldn't be so confusing.

Nobody does something for no reason, so what's the reasoning behind being hurtful And spiteful to someone you've already hurt and someone who did nothing but love and care for you? It makes zero sense in anyway.

Has her behaviour led to recycles in the past? You've continued to reach out to her for closure after past break-ups, or in other ways accepted the recycle. If part of her wants to maintain that connection and wants for you to continue to "fix" things, why shouldn't she continue the same pattern of behaviour that led to that result in the past?

Of course, I understand your point that if she wants a relationship with you, why not a healthy, happy one? The truth is, those are complicated questions -- if they weren't, there wouldn't be so many unhealthy relationships in the world. We too easily become locked in patterns of behaviour that are familiar to us. In other posts, you've listed patterns of behaviour that you recognize in your ex. And you've explained the pattern of your break-ups and recycles.

I gave her every chance I could, so if she's so ashamed why didn't she take it?

If she has deep-seated feelings of shame (that is, feels shame at who she is as a person, not simply guilt at actions she takes), then intimacy can be very distressing for her. When we feel deeply ashamed, the most terrifying thing is real intimacy, where we reveal all of ourselves to someone else and hope they'll accept us. So it might give her some sense of security and validation to have these side relationships, this emotional infidelity. Of course, it's not logical as a long-term strategy for dealing with shame, because the lies and cheating create more shame. But these are coping mechanisms to deal with immediate distress, not carefully crafted and thought-out strategies for long-term happiness.

Think of the most recent break-up you describe - her heavy drinking and detailing of sexual encounters she had while you were broken up. This is consistent with the behaviour of a person trying to cope with shame. Alcohol helps to numb difficult emotions and, while she reveals behaviour that she might be ashamed of (and therefore it might seem like she's opening up), she does it only in the context of pushing you away, of doing her best to show you that she doesn't care about your judgment and that she's immune to shame. The thing that can make shame so toxic is that we often feel shame at feeling shame -- her actions might be desperate attempts to convince you (and herself) that she doesn't feel shame.

Trying to make sense of this disorder (and, generally, of actions prompted by shame) by looking for rational, consistent motives behind the behaviour ... .it's a maddening game, because often rationality and consistency just aren't there, at least not in a way that will be satisfying and make sense to you. This isn't to tell you how you need to move forward. The only point I would make is that the surest predictor of her future behaviour is her past behaviour, combined with any indications that she's making changes. Scrutinizing her behaviour to try to make sense of her "end game" or what she's "really after" can lead you down a tortured path of confusion.

[KarmasReal]

Rfriesen, yes her behavior and mine have led to recycles in the past. Something I forgot she said the night we broke up, I was talking about her behavior and how messed up it was even before me, and she took it as she was the problem in all her relationships, which is probably mostly true. And she was describing circumstances and it dawned on me she loves conflict and drama. She's had it in every relationship I've heard about. In our 3 recycles she went from normal and maybe a little overboard loving to distant to angry to breaking up to getting back together. I can almost understand it in a way. Every time we have gotten back together that thrill returns, it's like the only way to maintain that for her is to eventually break up, and I believe she sees this infatuation phase as real love but since it can't be maintained once it becomes a stable relationship she freaks out and conflict erupts!

Your very right about her bombarding me with her shame too. She numbed herself with alcohol and then did everything she could to push me away. It's like she knew if I knew what she had done there was no way I would stay because she wasn't good enough for me. Maybe she hates me for being able to be decent in a relationship? She said it so smugly and with so much contempt it looked fake to me. If she didn't care she wouldn't have said it like that, I don't believe. She was trying to own the shame but she can't. When she's logical she knows better she often talks about never being the other woman, cause it's wrong, and her ex husband started a relationship with one before the divorce. I thought for sure she would never do that, and low and behold she does it when we're broken up this summer. I couldn't believe how she would just make herself sound so terrible to me. Who wants someone to think the worst of you? She has done things like this multiple times over the years and each time I lost some respect and you can't love without respect. So was she pushing me away because she was ashamed or was she testing me to see if I would stay with her no matter what? The core of this disorder seems to be confusion, as she talked out of both sides of her mouth over multiple things constantly contradicting herself, and pf course I can't understand this behavior no matter how much I learn. The confusion can hurt the most cause there is no answers, no reasons, just feeling lost.

I'm sorry I keep posting so much or repeating my self. I'm just stuck trying to make sense out of a situation that won't make any.

[rfriesen]

The confusion can hurt the most cause there is no answers, no reasons, just feeling lost.

Absolutely. It can be a very dark place when we feel buried in that confusion after these relationships. I can tell you that time and distance will let the dust settle a bit and things will seem a little clearer. I'm not saying it will all make perfect sense, but you will gain more perspective over time.

I'm sorry I keep posting so much or repeating my self. I'm just stuck trying to make sense out of a situation that won't make any.

Nothing to be sorry about. We've all been there. I wrote novels as posts when I first got here. Ultimately, it was a great help just to have that outlet to pour it all out. Over and over. It does get better, I promise.

[lovenature]

This whole thing has left me drained, hurt, and confused, just like every other time. I just wish I could somehow get something from her, the kindness of doing what she said she would, at least would show she had respect for our love and what we use to have. Basically it seems like she cares about none of that now. Thoughts?

She has a serious mental illness that allows her to distort reality to fit her current emotion of the moment, thus she is unable to show you empathy and respect for how you perceived the relationship. We thought we were in love with a mature adult, sadly a PWBPD is emotionally just a child, and it is so hurtful and confusing to try and make it work with them.
It is all about keeping an attachment to a PWBPD, so naturally they will never give you closure.