What do you do when BPD spouse has been emotionally/verbally abusive to the kids

[Ben The Great]

Hi, Do you have advice for me? I want to make my marriage work, but now my BPD wife is sometimes emotionally and verbally abusive to the kids. I feel like I should get the kids out of this situation--but I'm afraid that if I try to talk to her about it, she will rage and be abusive to me. Part of me longs to get out of the relationship, if I could be sure of taking the kids with me

Some background:
-I'be been wondering what was "wrong" with my spouse for nine years
-I've been going to therapy/counseling for three years
-Due to a recent move I started seeing a different counselor--he diagnosed her with BPD a week and a half ago, first time I'd heard of it
-I'm devouring "Stop Walking On Eggshells "
-Terrified that if I leave the relationship that she might get custody of the kids, making them even worse off than they are now
-Afraid that if I did leave, and got custody, that I wouldn't be able to raise two little girls on my own (this fear is completely self-centered)
-I know I should work on changing myself, and making the marriage work, and struggle with the knowledge that I just want out

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

This is a dilemma and I don't know if there is one way to address this. I think it is important to consider the children and protect them from abuse.

One model that is helpful to me is the Karpman triangle. It explains the various roles that people tend to play in BPD relationships. I find that the person with BPD tends to take victim perspective. But taking on any of the roles is still participating in the dysfunction.

It is rare that someone is a true victim in these situations. This isn't to discount the hurt and feelings of the person who feels this way, but even in these situations, most adults have choices. These choices involve removing themselves from the rages, counseling, choosing to stay or leave.

Yet, when children are involved, they are truly victims. Children didn't ask to be part of the relationship struggles between their parents. They don't have the choice to go live somewhere else. They can not support themselves. If their parents, or one parent, won't stand up for them, then who else would?

You say you are afraid to stand up for them because your wife might rage at you? Yes that is scary, but you are an adult. The alternative- say nothing- might save you from this, but what about the children? Who stands up for them if not you?

You are correct in thinking that, according to the drama triangle, your wife may perceive your standing up for them as being a persecutor to her. The challenge is to do this without stepping into these roles yourself. Perhaps a counselor can help you to maintain this boundary even if it upsets your wife.

I don't know how the best way to do this in your relationship is, whether or not to stay or leave. There are resources- personal counseling for you, the children, legal counsel to know what the rights are in your state for custody. Some parents have chosen to stay for the kids, others have chosen to leave. Your own happiness matters as well. But when it comes to your little girls, who else do they have but you to stand up for them?

[Sunfl0wer]

I feel like I should get the kids out of this situation--but I'm afraid that if I try to talk to her about it, she will rage and be abusive to me.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, however, I do not believe you have a choice in the matter.  If your wife is physically abusive to the kids you must report this to authorities.  By allowing your wife to be abusive to the kids and not reporting this to get help to stop it is actually also abuse via neglecting them yourself.  You both could be in jeopardy of losing the kids if the two of you cannot maintain a household free of domestic violence.  You are equally responsible as she is to assuring the safety of the kids, and if you cannot, you simply need to get help.

I am sure laws and services vary from state to state and country.
I do not know about that.
Maybe another will be of more help.
Maybe clarify exactly what you mean when you say she has been physical with the kids and also that you fear her abusing you.

[Notwendy]

There are laws in place about child abuse. However as long as the fear of her rages and abuse are greater than the wish to protect the children- I don't know if there is willingness to make that call.

In addition - much of this kind of thing goes on in private. Emotional and verbal abuse is hard to prove. Someone must be a willing witness to it.

I think that PWBPD can push boundaries but if they are invested in the relationship - still understand "deal breaker " boundaries. If the wish is to protect the children then abusing them needs to be a strong boundary.

I am not discounting the seriousness of abuse to the children. I was on the receiving end of this from BPD mom. What I am trying to address is Bens fear of his wife's reaction to this boundary. It is this fear that keeps him from upholding it- but that's the only way I know to have a chance at stopping it other than removing the kids from the home but that has its issues too.

I  think that think legal counseling will help to clarify the best options for the kids. Then at least Ben, you'd know the  choices. This is the improving board so the suggestion is to know what they are- not what choice to make.

Regardless of any choices- working on the fear is something to consider. Imagine if she was angry and you were not afraid? What if the drama between you could be reduced in such a way that she doesn't act out on the children?

[Skip]

sometimes emotionally and verbally abusive to the kids.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, however, I do not believe you have a choice in the matter.  If your wife is physically abusive to the kids you must report this to authorities.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here. Besides, government protective agencies have one tool, breaking up the family, and it's a major betrayal of often a declaration or war against of one of the parents as well as a major trauma to the children. There are times when this is what be done and we encourage member to consider it, but its not probably not the best initial first and best choice suggestion for a new member sharing a concern on "sometimes emotionally and verbally abusive".

  Ben

-Terrified that if I leave the relationship that she might get custody of the kids, making them even worse off than they are now
-Afraid that if I did leave, and got custody, that I wouldn't be able to raise two little girls on my own (this fear is completely self-centered)
-I know I should work on changing myself, and making the marriage work, and struggle with the knowledge that I just want out

I think its good that you can see all this and are confronting it rather than falling to depression. There are no obvious fixes in situations like this - you are trying to find the least worth pathway.

How old are the children.  What is day to day life like in your home?

[ElinorD]

Ben, this is a question on my mind, as well. My uBPDh certainly has some unhealthy behaviors toward our kids: frequent criticism, blaming, too much control for their ages, not allowing dissent. He's often harsh. I believe that's at the root of our oldest child's poor self esteem and lack of direction: whatever he does, dad is likely to say it's wrong and tell him to do something else. I wish I had seen this earlier in our lives.

I don't think it would be better for me to leave with the kids because it's not physical abuse or even terrible emotional abuse. So if I did, he'd have them alone sometimes, and then I wouldn't be there to help shield them at all (besides which they'd have an even more depressed and angry dad). What would be better wouldn't outweigh what would be worse, as much as sometimes I just want to leave.

I'd like to figure out how to better deal with the way my husband treats the kids, because I don't want to do nothing and let him, but when I say something to him, however gently, he takes tremendous offense and then everything is worse than if I let it blow over. And I know I've set up some bad dynamics by indirectly shielding the kids through nagging or taking care of things myself so that dad won't get mad at them. It has helped to make our oldest less self-sufficient because I've done too much care taking.