I want to be with the love of my life but BPD is killing us

[Hlinthewiking]

Hi guys,

We are on our third split. Things were going from bad to worse, I had just gotten a surgery and she was treating me like garbage, every weekend she would physically hurt me, she would fight me every single day and treat me worse then a stranger. Last week I had an appointment at 2 PM and she knew that, we woke up a bit late, she didn't say anything or do anything, after 20min in bed together I said I needed to get up and get ready, it was almost 1 PM, she became quiet and started to get angry, wouldn't let me get close, but I didn't have time for that, I couldn't get late, so I kept treating her as nice as I always do, asked what was wrong, but it was it, of course she didn't say at first, later on she said she wanted to have sex, but I took too long in bed and didn't initiate, also that she was hungry and I didn't provide her any food, I said I hadn't eaten myself and that if she wanted sex, why didn't she initiate it earlier? I also wanted it but we didn't have time, I didn't even went to the bathroom properly after waking up, this was no uncommon practice, we often have our obligations and have to leave in a hurry.

She lives very far, I dropped her pretty close on a bus stop, which is also not uncommon since we live so far, it was 1:47 PM and I had 13min to get to the Dr's office.

She became increasingly worse, told me I was dropping her off like a whore, I couldn't even understand how she would say that.

After that incident she didn't speak to me for 2 days and only talked to me on that day because I did the initiation, when I did, she said she wanted to break up, after a while she then said she was tired of me stalling her, we are on a recycle and I told her I wouldn't officialize our relationship until she sought treatment, although we are in a monogamous relationship, she just wants status and to flash to everyone that I'm hers and I provided her with recommendations and even favors to get discounted prices on good treatment, I told her I wasn't stalling on her but she was treating me like garbage for weeks, it was getting worse every week and that she was physically hurting me every week, I at least needed respect to make this commitment, she said she was only doing so because I was stalling her, she said if I didn't ask her now to be her girlfriend (via text), she would block me and I should never speak to her again, that was on christmas eve, she blocked me and we haven't spoken since.

I'm devastated, I was not only in post op and had lost 20lbs as I was worried about us and not being able to fulfill her needs while on recovery, now I'm just struggling to stay alive, I have never been is such a deep state of depression ever before. I love her to death, I can't imagine being without her, should I have caved in and asked her? What can I do? I just wanna go run and beg her and ask her to be my girlfriend, but if she decides to keep treating me like she was last few weeks, I'll either have to break up, which will make me even worse, IF I'm even capable of breaking up with her again, or she's going to kill me. Why does she always do this when my therapist is out of town... .I need help, my therapist doesn't like BPDs very much and he doesn't leave me much hope, he's even scared about my safety being with her. What can I do? Please someone help. This is the most important thing is the world to me, I'v always wanted to be with someone like this, I'm sure she loves me too in her own way, I can't accept that we can't be together.

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[drained1996]

I've always wanted to be with someone like this

I had just gotten a surgery and she was treating me like garbage, every weekend she would physically hurt me, she would fight me every single day and treat me worse then a stranger

told me I was dropping her off like a whore, I couldn't even understand how she would say that

it was getting worse every week and that she was physically hurting me every week,

she said if I didn't ask her now to be her girlfriend (via text), she would block me and I should never speak to her again, that was on christmas eve, she blocked me and we haven't spoken since.

but if she decides to keep treating me like she was last few weeks, I'll either have to break up, which will make me even worse, IF I'm even capable of breaking up with her again, or she's going to kill me

All of the above you wrote... .what do you see here?

[Hlinthewiking]

All of the above you wrote... .what do you see here?

What do you mean?

I don't know. The only thing I might have phrased wrong there is "I'v always wanted to be with someone like this", what I meant was the way I felt about her. I don't like when she treats me poorly and when she does I either break down or loose interest, if I loose interest I quickly forgive her, miss her, feel bad and guilty for not treating her as well as I usually do.

She wasn't always like this, she often would freak out about something, but it was never so intense, so disrespectful and so frequent. I never gave her a ring because it takes 2 weeks to get engraved and I never knew we would last until next week and that has persisted for over a year, I told her this, I'm never secure I'll be with you, you threaten to leave me every time you are displeased, give me the silent treatment very often and hang up the phone on me.

I know it looks sick, I know I have a problem, but I can't go past how much I love her and it's not always this bad, when it's good it's really good.

[drained1996]

I know it looks sick, I know I have a problem

No it doesn't look sick... .many of us have been where you are... .me included.  What do you see as your problem?

I never knew we would last until next week and that has persisted for over a year,

you threaten to leave me every time you are displeased, give me the silent treatment very often and hang up the phone on me.

I'd say a year is a pretty good sample size to make some observations.  What healthy things could you add to this to build on?   
 Have you been using the tools and lessons in the right margin of this page as you've been trying to navigate within the relationship? 

[Hlinthewiking]

I have tried to have boundaries but it seems impossible to enforce them. She always splits when I try to do it.

I could have done what she asked, I could also have given her more flowers, despite her never really showing appreciation or taking them home afterwards. I could have been less afraid to commit to her, help her participate more in my life.

She's missing motivational factors, I'm missing hygienic, I can't accept her calling me names, physically hitting me, hiding my sleeping pills and telling me to go sleep while I desperately look for them, because she wanted sex and I didn't guess it. Would you take a punch to the face then leave home to buy flowers?

[drained1996]

Would you take a punch to the face then leave home to buy flowers?

No... .I would not... .and obviously you would not either.  So... .what's your goal here?

Put straight, I'm asking you to give some healthy valid reasons that you wish to continue a relationship with her.  Would you like to end these cycles... .detach, heal and grow?  Or would you like to continue to pursue using the tools and lessons here and see how things go?  I'm asking, because I cannot tell... .
We are here to help in any way possible.  And the goal is to find out what you want... .and what's best for you and your future from a healthy perspective in your mind. 

so... .whatcha think?

[Hlinthewiking]

Put straight, I'm asking you to give some healthy valid reasons that you wish to continue a relationship with her.  Would you like to end these cycles... .detach, heal and grow?  Or would you like to continue to pursue using the tools and lessons here and see how things go?  I'm asking, because I cannot tell... .
We are here to help in any way possible.  And the goal is to find out what you want... .and what's best for you and your future from a healthy perspective in your mind.  

so... .whatcha think?

I want to be with her, but like I said the state we were in this past month was not possible, I want help in case there is any possibility of reverting this state and preventing it from happening again, I know she will always be BPD, but I need to be respected at least half the time, she used to just disrespect me when she would have an episode, this time she would consciously do it because I deserve it, to punish me because she thinks I deserve it for her internal erroneous conclusions that don't correlate to reality, in a continuous, apparently stable state of disgust and hatred towards me, at the same time begging me to give us a title and show the world that we are together on social media.

There is no rational reason to continue this relationship, if I were Spock, I'd just say it's logical and drop it, move on, detach, I'm not Spock unfortunately, I'm afraid not to feel this again and if I can do anything to bring this relationship to a minimum of mutual love and respect, I'm up for trying, I just think doing everything she wants is not the way to go and also ignoring her tantrums and moving away from her chaos isn't either, when I did that to preserve myself she started saying I didn't care about her and started triggering even more, even displaying detachment in some way.

edit: sorry for taking so long to understand you, but I think this time I was able to coherently give you an answer.

I have to add, every time I do this, which isn't the first, when I become this positive force that says that will do whatever I can to make it better, I start feeling awful, guilty and ashamed, of loving someone who treats me this way, as if I'm stalling the inevitable. 

[drained1996]

Thanks for hanging with me!  So you've set a pretty clear picture, your head knows what you should logically do, but your heart just has not caught up yet.  Thus far from what you have shared your heart wins out... .and recycle happens... .
And in those recycles... .you get hurt again... .and again... .
Think it might be time to summon your inner Spock?

And what if... .the efforts and love you have to give... .were actually accepted and returned in kind to you... .



by someone else... .

[Hlinthewiking]

But you think there is not a chance she will improve? She may have BPD in a very serious way, but her qualities were everything I always wanted and I feel that I will never find someone with as many as hers and I don't think I can drop this in time, I'm a bit OCPD, I'm not diagnosed that way as in a personality disorder by my therapist at least, but that is my personality trait, I'm very obsessed by some things and I have a comfort zone, detaching from someone like her is much more difficult to me then to a healthier person.

[drained1996]

I cannot say whether she will or will not improve... .that's up to her... .but typically speaking they must be willing and engaged in therapy for any semblance of improvement to occur.

One thing I personally learned is that there really is no separation of them and the illness... .the illness (the bad) is just as much a part of them as the good we see.  So when assessing a situation like that one must take everything into account.  

I'm not trying to get you to detach and leave, nor am I trying to get you to stay.  I'm simply reading your posts from an outsiders perspective (one with experience with BPDs) and trying to get you to see what you are saying, thinking, and feeling.  

I see this:
You love her, she loves you when it feels right, when it doesn't she devalues and discards.  Rinse, recycle, repeat.  You've tried to improve things by using tools and lessons learned here and in therapy... .and they don't seem to be helping a lot.  Not your fault... .wasn't my fault either.  I was using these tools and techniques on someone who was not willing to or able to accept my love and patience... .and that is what comes across to me in your case.  She may want to... .but doesn't have the emotional capacity to do it... .and isn't willing to do what she needs in order to improve.  

So that leaves you in a place of continuing the path you are on, or you can decide to make some form of change.  The choice is obviously yours, I'm simply helping guide you to look at your situation and see it as clearly as possible.  
Either way, we are here to help and support you the best we can.  
What if anything has your T suggested about direction in the situation?


edit:

I'm afraid not to feel this again

I noticed this and wanted to point it out... .part of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)
FOG can distort our abilities in making good decisions.  I too experienced the same fear. 

[Hlinthewiking]

I cannot say whether she will or will not improve... .that's up to her... .but typically speaking they must be willing and engaged in therapy for any semblance of improvement to occur.

One thing I personally learned is that there really is no separation of them and the illness... .the illness (the bad) is just as much a part of them as the good we see.  So when assessing a situation like that one must take everything into account.  

I'm not trying to get you to detach and leave, nor am I trying to get you to stay.  I'm simply reading your posts from an outsiders perspective (one with experience with BPDs) and trying to get you to see what you are saying, thinking, and feeling.  

I see this:
You love her, she loves you when it feels right, when it doesn't she devalues and discards.  Rinse, recycle, repeat.  You've tried to improve things by using tools and lessons learned here and in therapy... .and they don't seem to be helping a lot.  Not your fault... .wasn't my fault either.  I was using these tools and techniques on someone who was not willing to or able to accept my love and patience... .and that is what comes across to me in your case.  She may want to... .but doesn't have the emotional capacity to do it... .and isn't willing to do what she needs in order to improve.  

So that leaves you in a place of continuing the path you are on, or you can decide to make some form of change.  The choice is obviously yours, I'm simply helping guide you to look at your situation and see it as clearly as possible.  
Either way, we are here to help and support you the best we can.  
What if anything has your T suggested about direction in the situation?


edit:
I noticed this and wanted to point it out... .part of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)
FOG can distort our abilities in making good decisions.  I too experienced the same fear. 

Thank you for your help, you are right about your analysis of the situation.

The only change I could make at this time that wouldn't result in a for sure total end of us, is to show her the most love I can and do what she wants, while talking to her about the therapy and trying to help and I see 2 possible scenarios out of this:

I get depleted of giving, walking on eggshells and lack of appreciation for me efforts without a return, then she dumps me for it, or she is already out of her episode and she's able to slowly progress and now has a better view of me for my efforts. Latter seems less likely, but I wouldn't say impossible. She's got a terrible fear of loss and detachment, by not committing to her as she wanted, I may have triggered her too much for her to handle and seek improvement, I think I should have given that leap of faith since I hadn't much to loose by doing so...

This is the hardest thing I'v ever been through in my life, it also shows how much I still need to improve on myself, if I weren't so damaged and pathologically understanding, it wouldn't have lasted 1/4 of what it did and I might actually be stable and happy now. Maybe I really should MMA fight, I can take anything without the blink of an eye, it's so absurd, I remember when I did BJJ 10 years ago, I would never give up, I would black out sometimes but not tap. I always thought this was a quality on me until I met my exBPDgf.

[drained1996]

I would never give up, I would black out sometimes but not tap. I always thought this was a quality on me until I met my exBPDgf.

Knowing our own limits and setting boundaries to protect them is healthy.  Not knowing them or not enforcing them when we do know them and they are crossed is not overall healthy.  It takes courage and strength to admit our limits sometimes... .it's not a weakness to say or feel that I won't do that... .or I won't take this. 
After all if one does not take care of themselves... .who will?

[Hlinthewiking]

I wish you could be my therapist ><. I feel like despite me not being able to leave this relationship fully still, I'm improving and I became a better person after all this, if I can just live through this I think i'll be fine, but it's going to take a pretty long time for that to happen.

 At the same time I called her 2 times and I texted an hour ago or so, she has not replied me however... .I actually didn't expect this... .I was going to go to her house but I was scared of how her reaction would be like and I reckon there would be family members or even a replacement, maybe she isn't even there, I though it would be best to call first, but knowing her, she would have liked if I had gone there.

I was supposed to go to the beach with my father and his side of the family, but I told him last few days I wasn't well and I might not go because of it, in the end I didn't, but I expected she would see me. I really don't know how I feel right now, a bit shocked I guess. I should have gone to the beach, now my father is sad and I'm left alone on new years again.

[cbm419]

I need help, my therapist doesn't like BPDs very much and he doesn't leave me much hope, he's even scared about my safety being with her. What can I do? Please someone help. This is the most important thing is the world to me, I'v always wanted to be with someone like this, I'm sure she loves me too in her own way, I can't accept that we can't be together.

My therapist said the same things to me.  My BPD hit me a lot... .it started with one time, then a year later, it happened again.  then the frequency increased, it became more intense. I was hospitalized and needed reconstructive surgery.  Even after all of that- he STILL hit me. Sometimes right where my procedure was.  When he did that I would just lose it and melt down... .literally a few weeks after the surgery he slapped me there so hard i was afraid he had dislodged part of the titanium implant.  Thankfully my doctor said it was okay.

My therapist always contended- if my BPD wasnt getting help himself (and a lot of it: primary therapy, DBT, group therapy, medications for potential comorbid disorders), taking it very seriously and doing the hard work himself... .he wasn't going to change for me.  for a time, he did have a T but he would go once a week just to keep up appearances, really.  He moved to my city, dropped that therapist, and would only seek a new one if i begged.  It would take a month for him to find one, a few weeks for the first appt, then he would go a couple times till he disagreed with something the T said, painted black, then refused to go. this repeated quite a few times before we parted ways.

 I always thought if i read the stuff on the righthand side of this page, read enough books, researched it all, I could use these methods and he would change in time.  Unfortunately, my T was pretty spot on.  Since he didnt really want to change, they never worked.  Actually, they often backfired, sort of like you have said.  They would confound/confuse and at times, completely enrage him.  Especially when I set a boundary that if he started to yell, he would have to leave for a short time until he could calm down.  Boom- short cut to a beating every time i enforced that boundary.  

Im not badmouthing the spirit of this site (love it here!) or downplaying these techniques- they do work for some and work very well for others.  Just seems the common thread in those is that the BPD really wants to make it work too.  Mine claimed he wanted the relationship to work more than anything (and he still does) but it was always on his terms.  He would get very aggravated if I ever spoke more than a few minutes about his mental health or tried to intellectualize our dysfunction in this manner.

My Therapist wont even treat BPDs because of how low the success rate is.  Also, he dated one for a period of time, was abohrrently miserable... .so he could really relate to me.  And he said over and over again, this man could kill me, and was at a high risk of killing himself as well.

Listen, I'm not trying to tell you to do one thing or another.  This is your life and your relationship to choose if you desire. I just worry about the physical abuse.  If you let someone get away with it, they tend to repeat it.  And for my BPD, when he was raging enough to hit, he exerted very little self control over how hard it would be.  And not that it matters whatsoever, but Im not weak.  Im gay, so am also a man... .i was 5 inches taller than him, can bench almost 200lbs and could toss him across the room if i wanted. he weighed 115lbs and never exercised.  But it doesnt take above average strength to really hurt someone.  The human body is so much more fragile than we think.

I worry for your safety.  And it just depresses me so much how much I put up with, all the physical and emotional pain I endured, for a relationship that ended in failure anyway. I dont mean to ramble on about my own experience, I can just truly relate to your story and like your therapist- worry.

[Hlinthewiking]

Thank you so much cbm419, it does seem like we were in a similar scenario. I'm so sorry you got hurt so bad, I'm also a pretty big guy and I also practice powerlifting and olimpic lifting, she never got to hurt me that bad, the 3 worse times she hit me were once in the genitals where I thought about going to the hospital since I have already a bad varicocele from heavy weightlifting and it got really swollen and I was in the ground for a very long time, the other time she punched me in the temporal with my glasses on, bent them and gave me a bad swollen bruise for the first time, the last time was a battering tantrum on my arm and I never seem muscle swollen up that much, I couldn't close my fist that day and it hurt for 3 days. I used to hold her wrists down so she would stop it, she headbutted me once and kicked sometimes but it prevented worse damage. She hit me very frequently though, in this final weeks it was pretty much every day we would see each other and I think the fact I'm so much bigger then her made her even less concerned about restraining herself.

For me the physical abuse was not the worse, I can take physical pain, but the fact that the person you love the most is trying to hurt you is what really hurts, emotional pain is a lot worse.

I don't think she would kill me, I told her I feared that once, she said she'd never do it but she might stab me if she had a knife in hand at the time, so always watched out when she had one.

What gave me some hope is that I met another BPD girl since she split, we spoke online and she was different then my exBPDgf, she didn't deny having BPD, she had treatment and took medication and she said she knew she had a problem and wanted to make it better, she seemed such a nice person, it really gave me hope. Amazing how always when we split I'm attracted to the same type of personality, I find BPDs and NPDs just by looking at pictures, it's so scary, someone on the website said something about childish characteristics that are appealing to caretakers, but now I'm deviating.

How are you now after the split? How long has it been?

About my case, I'm a bit numb still and in shock, I'm thinking on whether I should try to call again, but I feel almost relieved because for the first time she is taking the responsibility of my hands.

[Hlinthewiking]

Oh wow, we spoke. It's 2 minutes to new years in my country, I can't stop crying. She was so cold, she said she didn't believe in us anymore and that I shouldn't have stalled her, she didn't want it anymore, at the same time she seemed to feel sorry for me, I gotta admit I lost control any bit of self respect I might have had, I begged so much, she wished me a happy new year, said I'd never leave her heart and hoped I'd be happy someday.

I hope I don't bust my throat crying, that's be fun, not only crying on new years eve but bleeding out and going to the ER.

I would never expect this to happen, I don't know what to do, 4-5 days ago she wanted to be my girlfriend, today she doesn't care and seems like she's completely detached.

I should have gone to the beach, I'm having a panic attack instead.

[michel71]

I know some therapists who refuse to have BPD patients. Mostly because they are abusers and therapy resistant.

I have tended to "split" my uBPDw. At times I see her as two different women, one very disordered and one very loving. This is a grave mistake on my part and has kept me stuck. I am trying to stay in reality... .the reality that she can be a very loving woman but overwhelmingly she has a mental disorder. What she says and does is subordinate to the disorder. It controls her.

You cannot love away mental illness.

I am sorry you are going through this. She is a girlfriend. Be darn lucky that you did not marry her. And I mean that. You would have a poop load of problems in addition to a broken heart.

Stay in reality. It is hard for me too.

[cbm419]

My strength and size advantage gave my BPD the impression he could swing and punch as hard as he wanted. If I restrained his wrists he would often bite. I have a scar of his teeth in my arm that I'll probably have for a lifetime.

We have been on/off the last tortuous year and in detachment maybe the last 6 months. I moved back home after pretty much losing my job/sanity to all of this sh!t along with a flurry of alcohol and substance abuse that I was pouring all over my depression in June. Didn't have any problems with addiction until a year into this relationship. Don't blame it on him but I'm sure it was a contributor. Anyhow, since I moved home we've basically been done, saw each other a couple times a month until November. That's when I officially broke up. Any time we saw each other up until then was a day or two a once, always full of insane fighting. Yelling. Physical abuse from him. I'll admit I started crossing the line from restraining to slapping back myself. I began to yell uncontrollably also.

I got sober. Thank god. But when that fog lifted. I started noticing the other FOG I was suffocating in. I saw the forest for the trees and began to perceive the insanity of this entire thing. Meanwhile he just went from bad to nightmarish. Lots of cheating, screaming at me on the phone. For the first few offs our on/off period... .January 2016-June: I would just break my guard after a few days.  Maybe a week.

I would be exactly where you are friend. Hysterical crying. Panic attacks. Near intentional drug overdoses (don't recommend that). Almost died a few times from that. Landed in a couple hospital units. He was the only thing that mattered. Friends saw me and couldn't believe how either sad/inconsolable I was or how fcked up I was on drugs ... .really dangerous combinations all the time. Even my dealer refused to sell to me sometimes! He was convinced I was gonna kill myself. You know you've fallen far if your DRUG DEALER is so concerned he won't sell. Lol.

 It wasn't until I got sober and also, the break ups got really bad in June that I could make it through then without having breakdowns. Also, I started reading on here and participating. Can't tell you how much it's helped. I started coming here every time we were "off" when it got tough. Instead of caving in and reaching out. That was always a dangerous path. I've never gone full no contact. But I learned when I was in a weakened state that I had to enforce NOT talking to him at ANY cost. I could re engage when I was strong enough to resist.

I go to AA now and they teach it's always that first drink - as long as you never pick up that first drink, and go to meetings, you'll make it.

Well I have adopted a similar view with my BPD and this site. As long as I don't give in to his hooks, and don't take him back - and come here for support, I believe I'll make it. Like many here say, these people are like drugs. We become addicted to the emotional highs and low lows. We confuse this for real love. It IS NOT.  

I'm sorry your in a rough patch man. Know that people are here. People who gave been thru what you have. Some with years away from these relationships who write and reply here... .and  occasionally offering a hopeful glimpse of your future if you stay strong and away from her. I appreciate those people the most - they don't have to be here, they're out... .but if we didn't have their guidance and experience, this community wouldn't be able to as strongly provide the unique support it does.

I urge you. Every time you feel your going to contact her. Come on here. Open recent unread threads and remind yourself. Read detaching threads. I also love the staying in relationship threads. Because when I'm weak I forget how much work it would take even if my partner was WILLING to change. I forget all the effort it would take and romanticize him and if that goes on too long I'm liable to take him back shortly thereafter.

Come and read. Or better yet - write. Reflect. Someone will be there to support you in short time.

Stay strong!

[Hlinthewiking]

I have tended to "split" my uBPDw. At times I see her as two different women, one very disordered and one very loving. This is a grave mistake on my part and has kept me stuck. I am trying to stay in reality... .the reality that she can be a very loving woman but overwhelmingly she has a mental disorder. What she says and does is subordinate to the disorder. It controls her.

You cannot love away mental illness.

I am sorry you are going through this. She is a girlfriend. Be darn lucky that you did not marry her. And I mean that. You would have a poop load of problems in addition to a broken heart.

Stay in reality. It is hard for me too.

I did the exact same thing... I even told her and my therapist, I found 3 personas, the loving, the abandoned child, and the vengeful demon. In all three instances I realized she acted like a child, using masks to deal with situations.

The second and third personas I mentioned were similar but in different spectrums, the abandoned child is the loving persona that wants to return to the loving state, for she isn't feeling loved, when she can't feel loved she shields herself as the vengeful demon to protect herself from future harm.

I always felt like she was possessed, I couldn't and maybe can't accept they are all the same person. When she wasn't the woman I loved I felt terrible even when she wasn't abusing me, it was like the persona I love was being smothered by evil forces and locked deep inside of her. There was an intermediary persona between the second and third personas, in between those is the time where she would dissociate completely, day dream, become catatonic even, completely detached from her self. This is like a Stephen King novel and the scariest part is that it's real and happened to us.

  cbm419 I'm sorry about what you had to go through, thank you for your help, I hope I can be well soon.


 I'm not in a good place right now, I can't see the light in the end of the tunnel quite yet and I'm not sure I'm ready to give up on her yet, I'm lost. I feel like I should go to the detachment section, but even thinking of that depresses me even more because it feel like I'm giving up on her.

How can she seem so detached from me? It was getting worse a couple weeks back after I had one of my best friends graduate and she tilted over me going without her, but after I got the surgery, everything changed, it seemed like she didn't love me anymore, when she would see me, there were moments that seemed she still loved me, but most of the time it seemed like she was tired of me, when she fell a sleep she wouldn't let me get close, she would push me away in her sleep and get mad by instinct, then next morning she wouldn't even remember it and find it strange that she did that. Out of the all the other times we broke up, this is the most horrifying one, it's like I'm nothing to her anymore.

[Grey Kitty]

I have tried to have boundaries but it seems impossible to enforce them. She always splits when I try to do it.

Yes, and you caved then. Which taught her that this was how to get what she wants from you.

I don't see a way forward for you where you aren't willing to let her split you black, and leave. She will say that it is forever. She almost certainly believes it when she says it. And the nature of the disorder is that she can feel something different later and it will be "forever" too.

Right now, you sound like you are fighting for your life, literally, after your surgery, or are starting to recover, but still weak. Take care of yourself. That has to come first. She doesn't have the capacity to see any needs but her own, and you don't have the energy for hers today.

[Tram]

Why?

[Hlinthewiking]

I'm already pretty much fully recovered, I just can't go ham in the gym yet, that's why I tried to reach her, I gave it until new years.

She unblocked me and changed her profile picture to a pic of her in my house, I noticed that was her way of saying "ok, come crawl back", I pretended I hadn't seen it. Next day she sends me a message "I don't want and I won't keep you blocked, that's why I unblocked you". We then spoke a little and next day I decided to go surprise her, that was yesterday, we spoke a bit more, she's still cold, I bought some flowers and went to her place, I was talking to her while I drove so I knew she would be there and open for me, I said I wanted a cheeseburger after not being able to eat in my post op, but I wanted to wait for her, she said she wanted pizza. When I got there I gave her the flowers and invited her for a pizza, I could see she was a bit emotional about seeing me, at the same time she was smiling but avoidant, she said I really surprised her and that she was happy, but she had to think, she was overwhelmed, she said she couldn't leave, but we could see each other the next day, which is today. When I get home, she's already weird, avoidant to the point I feel ghosted. Today she's the same but even worse, I ask what's going on and ask if we'll see each other today and she only says "I don't know", not it's past 6pm and she is still saying that, now I talk to her again and she says she's confused and I should respect it, she said it like she face rolled the keyboard and she didn't even fix her spelling afterwords like she normally would, she wrote everything wrong, left immediately.

I'm jaded again, depressed, waiting on her, at the same time tired of all this, I love her but this push/pull is killing me. Holding and kissing her yesterday, thinking of being with her again soon and getting disappointed is the worst feeling ever, I feel so drained.

[cbm419]

Order her a pizza delivery, get yourself a cheeseburger, then send her a pic of you eating it when she asks about the pizza.

hahaha... .just kidding.

I'm sorry your stuck in this push/pull mode.  I've been there and back and there and back myself, its very demoralizing. 

I can't tell you what to do, but I do want to remind you of how before this phase, she was hitting you like every day, right? hard shots to the groin? bad enough you feared permanent damage? sheesh friend.

Again, can't tell you what to do.  But I think your splitting her at this very moment, your removing the demon from the loving/childlike. 

I was GREAT at splitting my ex too.  And only with recent reflection have understood how this was happening from the first "violations" onward.  only a couple months in, I caught him cheating... .that created a compartment all on its own within my perception of him.  There was the loving/childlike and the sick vixen.  More splits developed as time went by and other dysfunctions appeared.  Like yours, the most concerning being the demon that came two years in with rages.  I was able to split that off very successfully to my own detriment.

You really have to recognize that these are all one person.  and you probably deserve a real, supporting and sustainable love.   

as always, choice is yours.  hope your feeling better.

[Hlinthewiking]

Thank you for your support, I'm just so depressed, I'm trying not to vomit, I feel so needy, your reply really helped me right now.

My doctor said I should wait another week before going to the gym, but after so long isolated and after getting blown off today, I felt I needed to go light at least to make it through the day. I tried to talk to her again at the gym, she said I needed to respect her and asked please. I just wanted to talk, she had promised to see me today and now she can't even talk to me via message, I feel so low, I'v never been this down, my energy level is pretty much I want to lay down and die, at least I made myself eat more today, after loosing so much weight when I was already lean I feel kinda ill.

I know what you mean... .That was awful... .But at the same time I feel guilty, because by what she said and knowing her, I think by not oficiallizing our relationship I triggered bad. I keep pretending she's normal and expecting her to react like a normal person when she's not, so I feel a bit responsible... .

[cbm419]

But at the same time I feel guilty, because by what she said and knowing her, I think by not oficiallizing our relationship I triggered bad. I keep pretending she's normal and expecting her to react like a normal person when she's not, so I feel a bit responsible... .

I can appreciate the sensation of guilt when I was still managing my (really, caretaking the entire) relationship.  I often got caught up in taking responsibility for near all of my BPDs reactions.  I was deep in the FOG this site describes.

The number of times I would say to myself, long after accepting my BPD was mentally ill (and very likely BPD) if only i had said xyz instead of abc... .i wouldnt get this anger/silence/push from them. I was taking responsibility for BOTH our emotions, both our mental states, both of our reactions.  

Thats not just unfair, its illogical.  You arent responsible for her feelings. She is.

Silence is, curiously, recognized as one of the most damaging forms of verbal abuse.  Its known as withholding, and intentionally withholding punishes the victim in so many ways.  It prolongs any meaningful resolution, or progress towards that.  some on these boards have written- when dealing with our BPD partners, we forget what a healthy conflict looks like.  Healthy conflict is a normal process where two people seek to resolve and acheive a win-win where they disagree.  its not about proving who is right, and its definetly not about extorting either party or manipulating either into feelings of shame, guilt or remorse.

really hard to remember that or even conceive that after years, or even less with one of these people.

and as far as your partner is concerned.  these relationships can exist functionally when the BPD genuinely tries to work for it just as much as their SO.  and also do very hard, serious and determined work on themselves seperately.  Reading through the Improving threads, you can see a lot of situations where all these conditions are met, but its still VERY difficult, not perfect, still lacking some function.  It doesnt sound like your depicting this situation.

Again, I'm not painting a bleak picture to suggest you have to end it. The goal is that you understand her actions and reactions are NOT your fault.  They haven't ever been.  Its hard to see this inside the FOG, and for me it took a break up for me to remember what "normal" looks like and be able to extricate my mental state from my exes dysfunction, inappropriate reactions, anger/sadness, etc.  we still do have regular contact... .and its a daily reminder, for me, of how deluded my thinking had become.  But, instead of losing my mind over what he does or says, I either chuckle on the inside, or enforce a boundary and remove myself.

I'm sure its possible for you to accomplish this inside the relationship.  the approach you may have to consider with her is to be assertive about what it will take for this to work.  I'm concerned your too deep in guilt and fear of the demon split to make that happen with any ease.  maybe time apart is what it will take for you to have a conversation where you can explain that she needs some form of help, and perhaps couples counseling, and to set clear rules on how to manage things going forward.  plenty written on how to do that on the boards, by much more articulate members than I!

I just worry for you friend, and do have genuine concerns about how lopsided this situation is.  It sounds like an uphill battle.  and beaten down spirits dont fair the best in an uphill battle. if you have indeed decided you want to make this work, you need to be operating from a stronger mental and physical place.

take time now to focus on your healing.  you wont do a great job making this r/s work until your better yourself.  

Also, Im worried about how alone you are feeling.  do you have any friends or family that could visit you as you mend? I'm sort of a tough guy when it comes to my health or surgery recovery, and isolate because i just want to wait until I'm 100% and can be my best self in public.  Not sure if thats part of your situation.  But it doesnt sound like she wants to look after you... .and this situation is the last thing you can manage while getting better.   seek out a friend or famiyl member if you can.  If this relationship has isolated a lot of these away from you (i sure know mine did) seek out a support group.  My area has a pretty good codependency anonymous presence- not sure if your country does. might be a good place to vent to some real life faces about what your going thru.  and these groups always offer real help, support and assistance to the newcomers first and foremost.  nothing to be ashamed of checking out.  I owe a lot of my current sanity to AA, and CODA employs the same model.

[cbm419]

When I get home, she's already weird, avoidant to the point I feel ghosted. Today she's the same but even worse, I ask what's going on and ask if we'll see each other today and she only says "I don't know", not it's past 6pm and she is still saying that, now I talk to her again and she says she's confused and I should respect it, she said it like she face rolled the keyboard and she didn't even fix her spelling afterwords like she normally would, she wrote everything wrong, left immediately.

I'm jaded again, depressed, waiting on her, at the same time tired of all this, I love her but this push/pull is killing me. Holding and kissing her yesterday, thinking of being with her again soon and getting disappointed is the worst feeling ever, I feel so drained.

Check out this article on the board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70004.0


"Silence—The Ultimate Control and Power Over Another

By Dorothy M. Neddermeyer, PhD"

It explained so much to me about when my BPD was withholding any real, meaningful communication and providing vague, confusing messages or going "ghost"

[Hlinthewiking]

I had some friends come over today and it was good to see them, though I feel a bit disconnected from what is normal, I didn't feel like I was as comfortable as they were and I'v never been so isolated from reality.

I hope it's just me over analyzing...

I spoke to her today and she seems so detached and it seems like she had painted me black for sure, when we were talking I mentioned how much I missed her and that I kept thinking of our good moments, and she said "which ones? Foods?", I was in awe, it was like the only good thing she got out of our relationship was my cooking, I asked her if that was all she remembered and she said "the good things I can only remember in the beginning". I replied that I loved the feelings I had when I was with her in peace and she was happy, I was so much in love with her.

Her reply was "more bad then good, as I see it"...

I must have spoken to Mr Freeze today, that was not a good conversation.

I did everything for her and I gave up so much, she talks like I was the worst boyfriend on earth.

After a while she asked something related to how I was, because yesterday after I posted here, I laid down in bed and started to feel ill, I'm not sure what happened, maybe hypoglycemia, I got up and tried to go to the bathroom, I started to pass out and everything went black, I was able to run back to bed before loosing consciousness and I stayed there for a while, ate some bars I had around, I was almost completely blind that time, I could see nothing but a glare of light, like if you stared at the sun for too long. Well she asked how I was, I said I was not 100% but I was much better and I though the anxiety was messing up my stomach, I can't digest stuff very well last couple days. It triggered her and she started saying that I always had something and that I was never ok, then I said that it was normal since I cared so much about her and we were going through this, she said I would always say that it was her fault... .and here we go again

Since yesterday I wasn't feeling that wall and I spoke to some girls on Tinder, which makes me feel guilty, I guess that FOG comes in this point, I just wanted to talk to someone nice, maybe someone who will give me hope that she's not the only one who makes me feel like this.

One thing she said made me curious though, she said we would be together again once she started working, she said in a few days maybe, she said there would be a new "her".

On new years eve when I was begging her back and saying I'd do better she said that she was still her, and that she hasn't changed, when I talked about it more in depth she closed doors.

Could it be that she takes a bit of responsibility but can't admit it directly? Isn't that good?

I read the article you sent, that was so spot on :/.
 

[cbm419]

Glad to hear you saw friends. I can relate to the sensation of things not feeling "normal" or as fulfilling in the wake of a BPD relationship. It's almost a hangover effect. These people provide such an intensity to human interaction- it's always high highs and low lows, with very little middle ground. We also become accustomed to constant hyper vigilance - hence the terms walking on eggshells or "waiting for the other shoe to drop." Then without them we become like drug addicts in withdrawal/detox. I know that for me it has exactly mirrored my own experience with drug and alcohol withdrawal to a near eerie extent.

Her treatment of you in your last interaction points to a lot of fundamental dysfunction. What sticks out to me is how much you are omitting about your health. You had a pretty serious episode there man! Blacking out is not a normal thing at all. First - consider going to the doctors! But yes, you don't even mention this serious episode. You seem to be uncomfortable being fully honest with her. Perhaps because you fear the very type of judgement she weighed after your incomplete disclosure. "There's just always somethinfng wrong with you."  Again, i would contend both of you aren't having normal or healthy interaction. If she's the love of your life, you should be very comfortable telling all. And she should be providing empathetic, supportive replies. Sure, nobody and no relationship is perfect, but these extremely dysfunctional conversations highlight, to me, just how disjointed things are.

However, I understand and can surely relate to how, when fully vested in my BPD relationship, all this dysfunction felt completely normal, and entirely my responsibility to manage and mediate. Any problems were my fault, both sides of the street were mine to own and clean up. Again. That's not only wrong, it's fundamentally flawed and illogical.

I'd be careful to be so hopeful that she's going to change. Is this the first time in so many years she's made this kind of promise? It sounds much like a light pull to me.

And reading an article here and it being spot on (happened to me many times) is just another sign your in the right place.

I think it's good your talking to new women. Be mindful. I've recently done the same and find I have the same sensation you do of finding it less fulfilling. Just remember normal people are going to be different, not as instantly engaged and over sharing. That's because they are normal! Lol. Just don't forget that, because you may find that the difference pushes you back to her because these other people lack that (dysfunctional) intensity.

Good luck!

[Hlinthewiking]

I was talking to her in the end of the episode, so she knew, that's why she asked on the next day, she didn't seem to care much for it though, she slept mid conversation or simply pretended to on that moment.

That type of interaction doesn't feel normal to me, in fact it feel depressing, draining, disappointing and frustrating, I just go with it and try to live through and hope it ends soon.

The problem about talking to other women atm is that I feel like I'm in the limbo, I don't feel with her but I still feel bonded, I don't want her to see other men, feels very hypocritical of me. She talks when she feels like, I don't know if she's going to decide some random moment that she wants to see me and if I don't go see her I loose my chance. So I'v tried to keep myself free of appointments because of that, that's why I didn't go to the beach on new years and why I took so long to see my friends, yesterday I was actually concerned she would do something because I was seeing my friends.

I can definitely relate to the addiction, this just brings me so down, I can see how badly she's treating me and pretty much undervaluing so much and I still dream of sleeping with her again. How did you pull out? Everything feels so blend, like you became a black and white movie and all the color went away.