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Author Topic: Silence: The Ultimate Control - Dorothy M. Neddermeyer, PhD  (Read 5253 times)
JoannaK
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« on: February 16, 2008, 09:10:27 AM »

Silence—The Ultimate Control and Power Over Another
By Dorothy M. Neddermeyer, PhD


Verbal abuse, in general, is a means of maintaining control and Power Over. There are fifteen categories of verbal abuse. Verbal abuse is a violation, not a conflict. In describing verbal abuse it is a boundary violation, it is an intrusion upon another, or disregard of another in a relentless pursuit of Power Over, superiority and dominance by covert or overt means.

In a conflict each person wants something different. However, in a conflict the parties discuss their wants, needs and seek a mutually win/win solution. While seeking the solution neither party forces, dominates or controls the other.

One might think verbal abuse is primarily in low-income families with poor education. However, studies reveal verbal abuse is within all educational and socioeconomic backgrounds. Levels of education range from high school graduates to Ph.D., M.D., JD, etc. Occupations vary and include artists, professors, lawyers, politicians, medical doctors, psychiatrists, homemakers, CEO’s, and entrepreneurs.

Silence a.k.a. Withholding is the most damaging and hurtful form of verbal abuse. One might think that in order for the behavior to be considered verbal abusive words need to be spoken. This misunderstanding of verbal abuse adds to the recipient’s confusion within the relationship. The recipient of silence/withholding may believe the relationship is functional because the abuser may communicate functional information, but refuses—through silence/ withholding (non-responsive)—to communicate on an intimate level.
There needs to be more than an exchange of information. Healthy relationships require intimacy. Intimacy requires empathy. To hear and be heard and to understand another’s feelings and experiences is empathetic comprehension. Intimacy in a relationship can not be achieved if one party is unwilling to share him/herself and is unwilling to be supportive of the other in an empathetic way.

Silence/withholding enables the abuser to control and have Power Over while keeping his/her ideal image intact. The abuser’s ego construct is extremely fragile and without a stance of control and Power Over, the abuser’s feelings of powerlessness would be felt as an assault to their well constructed mode of functioning in what they consider a hostile world.

This is not to say that two people may not always understand each other or may have difficulty expressing feelings, the intention to understand and/or express feelings is the foundation from which both parties function. One person alone can not create intimacy in a relationship.
Silence/withholding speaks louder than words and creates as much emotional damage as hostile words. Simply stated, silence/withholding is a choice to keep virtually all one’s thoughts, feelings, hopes and dreams to oneself and to remain silent and aloof toward another, to reveal as little as possible, and to maintain an attitude of cool indifference, control and Power Over.

The consequences of any form of verbal abuse may vary in intensity, depth and breadth. However the outcome of any form of verbal abuse impacts the receiver’s self-perception, emotional well-being and spiritual vitality. Verbal abuse takes the joy and vitality out of life through the distortions of reality, because the abuser’s response does not coincide with the sender’s communication.

The primary consequences of verbal abuse includes, but are not restricted to:
      • distrusting one’s spontaneity
• doubting one’s perceptions
• reluctance to come to conclusions
• perpetual preparedness, on-guard state
• uncertainty about one’s impact on others
• believing ‘something is wrong with me’
• constant soul searching and reviewing incidents with the hope of determining what went wrong
• eroded self-confidence
• constant self-doubt/confused
• frustrated/enraged
• a heightened ‘critical voice’
• loss of happiness, but unable to identify the reason
• anxiety or fear of ‘being crazy’
• fear of being ‘at fault’
• humiliation/shame/guilt for one’s state of affairs
• realizing time is passing with no reconciliation for peace of mind and happiness
• sense of life passing by
• belief ‘if only I could change everything about myself everything would be better’
• a strong desire to escape—including running away or suicide
• belief that what one does best may be what one does worst—I am darned if I do and darned if I don’t
• propensity to live in the future—“Everything will be OK if/when/after….”
• distrusting relationships in general and specifically with the abuser’s gender

Verbal abusers are generally in total denial that they are abusive. Therefore, the great tragedy in a verbally abusive relationship is that the other’s efforts to bring reconciliation, mutual understanding and intimacy are rejected because the abuser experiences it as adversarial. This is so because of his/her fragility and inability to be vulnerable to create a mutually equal exchange. The raw truth is—if you are in a verbally abusive relationship, the opportunity to change the relationship is difficult. Without guidance and support of professional help it is fair to state the obvious—it is impossible.

Dorothy M. Neddermeyer, PhD, author, national and international speaker, specializes in emotional health and healing. As an inspirational leader, Dr. Neddermeyer empowers people to view life's challenges as an opportunity for Personal/Professional Growth and Spiritual Awakening. www.drdorothy.net
Article Source: www.EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dorothy_M._Neddermeyer,_PhD
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2008, 10:09:14 AM »

Excellent article Joanna. It's great to see such powerful truths written in so few words. I know I can identify with the majority of those bulleted items on the list. I am glad I am far beyond that in my life now and trust my own feelings and reasonings. Maybe this should be mandatory introductory reading to new members.
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Letting go when it is too painful to hang on is hard to rationalize.

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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2008, 10:22:23 AM »

Very powerful. I read this and wonder how I even stayed married for 7 years. This was my life.

Peace
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2008, 11:21:34 AM »

After my childhood and first marriage, I thought I knew everything about abuse - but, the verbal abuse and the silent treatment are so much more insidious than straight out abuse... .so much more internally damaging.

I always tried to make it clear how much the "silent" thing hurt me but, he never did understand... .or perhaps he knew exactly how much and that was the whole point.

Damn.

Great article, one that I will save.
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2008, 02:09:33 PM »

This is a really good article! Thank you so much for posting it. I admit I use the Silent Treatment sometimes. I know it's wrong and I usually apologize for doing it. My reasons aren't so much as a power/control thing as a coping mechanism. I don't do well with "negative" emotions - anger, hurt, sadness. So when those feelings come on, I often retreat inside myself, cutting off my loved ones. It's something I am aware of and I am trying to improve upon. But I never really thought about the ramifications of my silent treatments on those I love.

Thank you!

Chili
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2008, 05:10:31 PM »

Joanna,

   That was a great article.  Sometimes what should be obvious isn't so obvious.  Many times I've accepted things as almost normal.  We all know physical and sexual abuse is wrong yet our society tolerates verbal abuse more than it should.  Social services won't interfere if a child is emotionally or verbally abused (as I learned when I talked to them about a neighbor).  They want actual physical signs of abuse.  Yet who knows how much damage is occurring in the brains and hearts of those who are abused verbally, emotionally and psychologically.

   I think schools should teach a class on good mental health.  They teach kids about drugs, sex, physical health but mental and emotional health isn't talked about much.  The neighbor kids who were abused just thought that was normal.  When you grow up in a dysfunctional environment, you don't always know what is healthy.
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2008, 03:21:34 PM »

Wow!  Your timing for this poll and article could not have been better!

This is exactly how my exBPDbf used to act over small things.  I felt very much like many of the descriptors in the article said the "abused" person might feel.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

~DH
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 09:19:46 AM »

This was a great article.  MY GF often uses the words that she is "shutting down."  Then I don't hear from her for days.

I used to think she just needed space and time.  Now I see it as punishment.
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 10:00:05 AM »

I would have to confess that I have used 'withdrawal' as a kind of control (though i don't think I realised that's what I was doing at the time).  Before I knew anything about BPD and before I entered OZ fulltime, there would be times I felt 'under siege emotionally' in some way and I think the only way I could regain control was to not say anything because I knew that was the one thing that drove him nuts.

Having been on the receiving end bigtime including actual silence (don't think I was ever silent - just didn't share), I hope I never manipulate someone in this way again!

And yes, I've done the frantic trying to pull him out of it even though I'd done nothing wrong to start with.  Still learning... .


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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 11:27:07 AM »

I had so much exposure to silence I thought I wasn't worth talking to.  When I first asked what was wrong (many years ago) she would say she was just a "quiet" person.  However when the rage surfaced she was very loud.  Silence was always explained away with something plausible.  I would say to myself I know she said she loves me, but she doesn't talk to me, or sit by me.  Long periods of silence meant an eruption was coming.   

A number of years ago I started reading Paul Ekman.  He invented the facial action coding system and is the worlds leading expert on deception.  The Gottman Institute can use 90 seconds of video of a married couple discussing an issue (no audio is needed) by scoring the gestures with the facial action coding system they can predict with 85% accuracy the success or failure of the marriage.  That was fascinating to me, considering my marriage.

It is Ekman's theory on lies that made me start wondering about my situation.  Any action to mislead is a lie.  His book talked about silence as a tool of deception and a lie.  His concepts on "leakage" was the first step for me in understanding what I had gotten myself into.

So silence was the most important warning sign in my case because it was the most visible. It took so much energy and critical thinking to understand. I was  lost until I stumbled upon Ekman and the Gottman Institute.
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 11:40:08 AM »

The Gottman Institute can use 90 seconds of video of a married couple discussing an issue (no audio is needed) by scoring the gestures with the facial action coding system they can predict with 85% accuracy the success or failure of the marriage. 

This might be a little off topic, but I wonder if the Gottman Institute considered NPD ?

My uNPDxh convinced most everyone, including myself that he wanted the marriage to work/would do what it took.  In the meantime there was a lot of deception re: money, alcohol.  We were with our MC over a year before he realized that my husband was likely NPD (and I know that he also felt betrayed).  The diagnosis was suggested to me via a third party who communicated with MC, with my written consent. 

Could a person with BPD/NPD "pass" the 90 second eval ?  Or would they automatically fall into the 15% that could not be decided ?
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 10:51:58 AM »

My ex was master at the silent treatment.  He often raged and left me (as he still had his place to go to) but he also gave me the silent treatment quite often.  He had been married 3x before our relationship.  During those relationships he had no place to go to, so he would go silent.  He told me he would go for as long as two weeks without saying a word to his wives.  I was luckier, b/c he could leave me so the silent treatments didn't last that long - usually five days or so.

Imagine you sit down to dinner together - he turns his shoulder so he is looking away from you.  His body language is complete withdawal.  He speaks only politely to pass the pepper, or whatever.  Our usual routines would be interrupted - normally, we'd have a cup of decaf before bed - I would ask him if he wanted some - In a snidely pinched way he would respond, "No, I don't think so."  This is withdrawal of love to the extreme - it is not only punishing, it is cruel.  It is incredibly uncomfortable, incredibly controlling and downright inhumane.  Yet, I don't think he could help it.  Very Strange.  It was unbearable, along with the rest of his abnormal behavior. 
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 01:08:07 PM »

So does this qualify as silenet treatment?  My ex-gf, who I believe is a quite BPD, calls me very week since April after she told me she did not love me anymore.

Last Monday I called her and tried to speak to her.  She claimed she was only calling me to be "friends."  I told her that was not true, and I could prove it by letting her know I am seeing someone else, where upon she started to cry, which Ipointed out she would not do if it was just about freindship.

After I told her that I was really not seeing anyone we had a frank conversation.  I told her I still cared about her, and loved her, but would not be treated the way she has been anymore.

She told me "not to push" and would "think about seeing me agian." Now that is pretty funny. 

Well, it has been one week and I have not heard from her.  Is that silent treatment as you speak of?  What do ya think?  Is she going to call again and still keep playing this stupid game?

I won't call her, so will she break down and call?

This is strange stuff.
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2008, 02:38:51 PM »

So does going LC/NC with the BPD qualify as verbal abuse from us to the BPD? 

Many people with BPD parents have gone NC with them, not to get a reaction from the BPD but as a means of terminating an unhealthy relationship.  Are they being verbally abusive to their BPD parents?  Is that what is implied?  Or it is abuse only when the BPD gives the silent treatment as a temporary mechanism to create an emotional response in others? 
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 02:37:19 AM »

Wow,

Does this read familiar!  I'm separated 4 years, divorced for two.  Yet when i read the consequences of verbal abuse, i can say "Been there.  done that.  got the anxiety, legal bills and counseling bills." 

My other installed the buttons, the BPD ex wife pushed on them during our marriage and now that I am co- parenting with her, these are her primary weapons of choice. 

Rich
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2009, 04:31:47 PM »

I found this article to be very enlightening and very helpful as I am experiencing the silent treatment by a BPD co-worker/estranged friend.  I think I needed to read this to realize that she is probably not going to change and what I need to do now is to distance myself from her as much as I possibly can.
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2009, 07:08:09 PM »

Joanna,

I didn't rate this very high because I tried to read it from the staNPDoint of my exBPDgf... .As if she were reading it. The silent treatment was her number one tactic when she felt she'd been wronged. Sometimes it lasted days.

I just don't think she'd have gotten it. And if that's the case, what good would it be if I got it, being the one that's abused.
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2009, 07:53:40 PM »

Question:

I can see that intentionally not being communicative with my SO except to make her worry, as being abusive.  How about in the case where my SO has been consistently verbally abusive to me, and I withdraw refusing to discuss it, because my boundary has been violated so many times.  Am I being abusive in return?



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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 08:53:05 PM »

I do remember begging my mother to speak to me. BEGGING. So sad for a 6 yo to beg her mother to look or speak to her. Of course, it is still sad that I am 30 and find myself still begging her to speak to me. I am getting better!

And now, I see myself. Punishing my husband by not speaking to him. I am trying really hard to remember if I have done this to my own children. I am ashamed to say I think I have. Again, I need to unlearn these behaviors.

Thank you for a great article that brought me more awareness.
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 10:28:07 PM »

Thank you! I needed to read this now... .

And now a word of thanks, from my favorite mascot... .

Where would I be without your help?

Welcome

js
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 12:44:51 AM »

  This is an excellent article and illustrates in all points, how I lived.  One of the repercussions I have come to realize is that I would look at articles and workshops like these and begin taking my own inventory (essentially a good thing... .right?) yet I would do so in the ways that my ex would project from herself... .back on to me.

i.e.

Read article and... .

Point A (omg that's what she says I am)

Point B (same)

and so on.

I'm seeing how damaged I had become in this.  I'm now seeing things not only to dig within myself but also just trying to look at the facts as though I'm looking objectively at two people I care about.

Question:

I can see that intentionally not being communicative with my SO except to make her worry, as being abusive.  How about in the case where my SO has been consistently verbally abusive to me, and I withdraw refusing to discuss it, because my boundary has been violated so many times.  Am I being abusive in return?

Yes my ex was very abusive.  Point made.

True and fair enough, I was verbally abusive at times too. 

When she would be screaming, stopping only long enough to interrupt and redirect my replies to an issue she wasn't screaming about until after I did reply, physically trying to restrain me and making paragraphs of different issues into one sentence by injecting the word "and" where a period should go.  I did yell things like "God, would you just shut the (word) up."  I'm not in defense of it nor am I proud of it even in this scenario but I did learn allot about who I don't want to be in this life.

Verbal abuse and the silent treatment were things we both participated in so it gets pretty tough to point fingers.  I guess I feel that I could lend my own legitimacy if I had walked away from it "the first time" instead of staying in the relationship to participate in the dance... .which is what I did.

When verbal/non-verbal abuse is intentionally, and with forethought of malice used to manipulate and control that's another story imo.  I wasn't interested in damaging my former.  I just wanted it all to stop.  I guess that's a form of being controlling too as I'm not taking the responsibility to walk away instead of engaging because short of a T-90 (Tank) nothing was going to stop the war between us and at times I was that Tank.  Again, not good.   

So... .when I did walk away... .when I couldn't find a kind word in my head for what was going on between us, I got silent.  I couldn't speak a kind word without it all starting back up nor could I speak a harsh word without hating myself for it and simply saying "please stop" never stopped anything.  I even tried saying "I love you" in the midst of some of her most abusive episodes which was only met with bitter, venomous, sarcasm.

I don't think going silent in order to calm things down is abuse as much as it is a sign of emotional damage.  Maybe I'm wrong here and if I am I'd really like to know.  In the end, I had almost nothing left to say and it really had nothing to do with controlling her but everything to do with controlling myself while trying to find a way out of what was like living in hell to me... .to us both.

As going silent is concerned, I guess (and it is only a guess) it will depend on one of two agendas in an abusive home. 

One would be an agenda to stop the abuse and that if the abusive person can't be stopped then only my participation in it can and in the extreme... .I had nothing left to say.

The other agenda would be an agenda to perpetuate the control and manipulation; emotional blackmail to get the other person to bend to the will of their partner.  It's a "want" driven motivation and not a "care" driven one.

Thank you and peace, UFH

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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2009, 02:45:53 AM »

I enjoyed this article. For years I was treated with the silent treatment and completely ignored, unless my ex husband controlled the conversation. It was devastating to my sense of self and self esteem. When I returned to college, I was afraid to join in on class discussions due to self doubt.

For years I made excuses for his behavior "he is a quiet person, he is shy".  One time at a Christmas party, his drunken secretary was at our table telling everyone what a wonderful listener he was and offered so many insights and was a very compassionate and empathetic man. It was the one of those moments where I knew something was terribly wrong but there was no framework to understand the behavior. This article is validating to read. I think back on how confused I was and am thankful I am no longer in the marriage. I feel so free and thankful I left.
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2009, 07:42:42 AM »

I'm struggling with this right now.  I know there were times when I had been so hurt and frightened that I withdrew into a little cocoon and the last two years of our marriage I'd spent alot of time in there.  He was drinking, spending more money than we had, angry at me all the time and claiming I was the source of all our problems.  It seemed like every time we tried to talk it was a diatribe of how I had changed and not for the better and he needed more (attention, sex, money, respect, the list goes on).  I've been seeing a therapist for a year now and we are working on my issues, but to hear him talk about it, he was being mentally abused when I crawled into my shell.  I wasn't doing it to hurt him, I was doing it to protect me.

But while I'm trying to protect me, I'm also hurting him.  So is is possible I WAS the cause of some of the lunacy?
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2009, 12:13:39 PM »

Well,

What about the times when you know , "everything you say will and shall be used against you"?

I spent plenty of times not speaking a word to my stbxBPDw, because I knew just one word would send her into rampaging.

Yes, it was silent treatment, but to protect myself.
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2009, 01:28:20 PM »

This is an excellent article and addresses exactly what I deal with re: my BPD daughter.  She has verbally abused me for years with both words and the silent treatment. 

Meanwhile connected to what this article explains so clearly- was the fact that besides being exhausted and hurt by her verbal abuse - I also ALWAYS have had hanging over my head 24/7/365 - the FEAR      that my D would cut me out of her life and that is one reason why I have put up with her verbal abuse for years.  I doubt this is a new concept. 

My D has cut me out of her life on and off and each time it felt was so UNFAIR and I felt devastated and was in disbelief.  And when she "took me back"  I would go on allowing her to continue verbally abusing me  ? because I wanted to be in her life and I kept hoping she would change if she could only realize how much I love her.

Having said that I VERY recently was able to let go of the FEAR of her cutting me out.  That fear was very draining so now I do not have the FEAR- and I know that not having the FEAR does not = the fact that she could cut me out- she has on and off.  Still I feel a gain ofsome energy back from the way my FEAR of her cutting me out has taken a toll on me BUT... .

I was/ am still left with  - what is in the article was/ is still whirling in my mind- the way I put up with her verbal abuse - some of it is silence - some has been actual words.  Putting up with verbal abuse is terrible-because as the article says there is no way to have a rational discussion about such a thing with a BP.  But I have put up with her verbal abuse because of my Fear that she would cut me out again if I made waves with her.  Now that Fear is gone so where does that leave me?  I don't know yet. 

All I know is that I have used much of my energy living with her abuse (she does not live with me presently) and I was/ have been/ am drowning it -the pain of her verbal abuse- until I am aching in my bones- I am still suffering from years of that... .the pain of it all- the energy used up from suffering- how many years taken off my life.  My own daughter! 

But nonetheless- I went for a walk and came home and came to this site and here it was in black and white- maybe what the next leg of my journey will be about- i.e. understanding what has been going on... .the way she abuses me.  I feel validated by this article.  I see in the article what she exactly has been doing.  And maybe now seeing will be believing as even though I have said it out loud to my support system and wrote it in posts on one of the boards that she takes out all of her angst on me - that I am her scapegoat- I for some reason did not exactly believe it

But... .now it is time to work on this- to start believing that she DOES verbally abuse me... .  it was as if I was SUSPECTING that she was verbally abusing me (strange as that sounds) instead of BELIEVING it.  Now it is time to learn to BELIEVE IT!  I am bookmarking this article! 

Thank you
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2009, 06:23:05 PM »

OOhhhh!  This is my question exactly.

Excerpt
Question:

I can see that intentionally not being communicative with my SO except to make her worry, as being abusive.  How about in the case where my SO has been consistently verbally abusive to me, and I withdraw refusing to discuss it, because my boundary has been violated so many times.  Am I being abusive in return?

when he has pushed alllllllllll of my buttons and I am ready to blow up, sometimes I will just be quiet because anything that pops out of my mouth right then cannot be good.  I don't want to yell and scream because that is how his mother caused his emotional problems and sometimes I am pretty sure that is the reaction he wants from me.   I want to discuss the problem when my mind is clearer and I am not steaming mad so I will take a break and take a nap, walk away, turn up the TV and tell him I really want to watch this show- whatever to collect myself.  (by the way, I have found out the hard way that if I leave the house my BPDh takes it as abandonment, again reminds him of mom walking out and not returning for days when he was 5)

I had not intended this to be emotional abuse but I was trying not to escalate the situation.

Now I am confused.
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2009, 02:33:25 AM »

Wow - thankyou. I am enjoying a silent periods often lately. And I appreciate the insight. The silent treatment usually starts with "shut the f**ck up". And he often contrasts the silent with happy phonecalls to friends. I am going to double my focus not to take it personal and that I should consider myself alone during these times.
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2009, 07:01:15 PM »

Used to call it "Michigan J. Frog" behavior after the old Warner Brothers cartoon -- you know, how the "Hello My Baby" singing-and-dancing frog would shut down on cue whenever an audience appeared, much to the dismay of the manager.

Well STBXH adored the public spotlight but would deflate the moment the spotlight turned off, when it was just me and him, when we weren't around others anymore.  The switch would go off immediately, like the instant we dropped off our friends at the end of some social outing -- sorry, no energy left anymore for interaction with me.  (And this from a guy who always complained we didn't have enough of a social life.)

And yeah, the tone would automatically perk back up again if he saw something funny on TV or if he were on the phone with someone else -- wouldn't ever want to show them that darker side of course, not from such a nice guy.

What a darned easy way to act out towards me.

I got tired of trying to energize us or him, and after a while, would just talk to myself and tell myself jokes.  Then he'd complain that I was mumbling, not loud enough for him to hear.  Whatever. 
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mssalty
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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2009, 09:08:02 PM »

I never realized I was in a verbally abusive relationship. until I came here.    I just assumed I was inadequate as a spouse, never finding the right words, reactions, thoughts, justifications for anything I ever did.   I spent my life with parents who argued but made up, and who, when they would treat me badly, would realize it and apologize. 

Oddly, living in a normal world didn't prepare me for noticing that things were abnormal in my current relationship.    I assumed that everyone had natural empathy and ultimately desired relationships in which friction wasn't the only constant.   

With every abusive comment, shifting of the truth, lie, crazy making statement, fight, silent treatment, refusal to apologize or treat me like a human until I apologized (regardless of fault), and halfassed apology that began with "I'm sorry but... ." I assumed that I was the one who couldn't make things right, so I drove myself nuts, with only my gut and subconscious screaming "THIS ISN'T RIGHT". 

I realized in the past year that the verbal abuse had lasting effects.   I lost my self confidence, I lost my ability to process information rationally, I lost my compassion, and my psyche has shifted to being depressed and unhappy. 
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Carnelian

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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2009, 08:16:06 AM »

as a newby to this site I have learned so much about my BPD husband I loved the article and just like mssalty I found myself apologizing for everything, have lost alot of confidence.  Even now he is vascilating beween his mistress and whether to be with me but can't say what he wants so switches the mobile off and I'm sure he is doing that with her too.  No remorse for the situation either so I cut and pasted the article for him and he can read it at leasure.  Thank goodness for this support group it is allowing me to understand more about what has been going on for 20 years and how awful it must have been for him as a child

Looking forward to growing in strength and moving out of the fog 
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