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Healthy88
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« on: January 05, 2017, 09:51:21 PM »

Hello All,

Have just recently realized my SO more than likely has undiagnosed BPD, with some Narsisstic & possible Sociopathic traits. We have had a very stressful 20 yr marriage from my pt of view, r currently separated & have 2 amazing & intelligent children.

I am dealing with depression, anxiety, extreme OCD, confusion & isolation. I feel like BPD is so complicated that I don't understand & I feel stupid for taking this long to figure it all out. We did not date long before marriage. I began seeing red flags (repetitive lying) after we were engaged & the wedding was in full swing. I asked my father to postpone it to give me more time, he would not. Here I am 20 yrs later.
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drained1996
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 12:11:37 AM »

Hi Healthy88,

Welcome

Sorry to hear about your difficult circumstances, you will find it's a common theme here.  If you read some stories others share here I'm sure you will find you are not alone.  I understand why you may feel bad about not knowing about BPD... .I didn't either... .most do not, and it's not really commonly known socially.  But it certainly exists... .as we have learned in our lives. 
What are some of the everyday struggles you face? 
Also... .what are you feeling?  What are you looking to gain from being here?  Sharing a little more of  your story... .and what you feel and want can help us guide you a bit better. 
You have found the right place for knowledge, understanding, and sharing. I learned the more I shared the more I got in return.  We are here 
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Meili
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2017, 09:50:05 AM »

 

I want to join drained in welcoming you.

Twenty years is a long time to be in a stressful situation. Are you receiving any sort of counseling to deal with the issues you mentioned?
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Healthy88
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2017, 07:58:49 PM »

Thanks guys,

I am not in counseling at this time, but am under a Drs care and receiving medication, as well as focusing on my nutrition & natural supplements. Until the last few wks, I didn't realize what was wrong with my SO. Nor did I realize that my symptoms could merely be the result of the stress of the relationship. So I was
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drained1996
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2017, 11:54:55 PM »

Seems your last post got cut off a little early there.  We are here to listen to and help you with your situation when you get a chance to share some more details.  Good for you for getting some help and being open to some medication.  Equally impressive you are taking care of yourself through nutrition. 
We did get that you were not currently seeing a therapist.  Have you thought about seeking one?  Many of us here have found a professional guide in these tough situations worth their weight in gold!  Hope to see you get a chance to finish your earlier post.  We are here!
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Meili
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 11:03:45 AM »

When I first discovered what was going on in my life, I followed pretty much the same path that you are. It had to be something physically wrong with me.

In addition to what you are doing, I added exercise (and a lot of it to burn off the energy!), house cleaning (it's amazing how much cleaning the baseboards can use excess energy too!), and meditation. All are completely natural, free, and beneficial to the body.

Have you thought about doing any of those things?
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Healthy88
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 09:34:46 PM »

Meili,

I guess great minds work in the same direction! Naturally, when this all came to a head my knee just went out on me. It took months to come back and I still have to be careful now. I think exercise is what got me through the last 20 years. I am walking as often as I can right now, while the knee heals. Possible torn meniscus, or so one kind doctor told me. I wasn't there for my knee, but she looked at it anyway and gave me some instructions.

Honestly, unless you can give me some tips, I have never been good at meditating. I have a really hard time maintaining focus and quieting my mind.
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Meili
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 09:49:40 AM »

I'm sorry to hear about your knee. Having to deal with physical pain on top of the mental/emotional is rough. I don't envy you. Hopefully it will get better soon with the instructions from the doctor.

When I first started to mediate, I found that my mind would wander all over the place. I could not relax or stop the thoughts from dancing around my mind. Then I stopped fighting them. I just let them flow in and out without focusing on them or getting frustrated with myself for having them. Others could mediate without ruminating, why couldn't I after all! But, when I stopped working against myself it got much easier.

I also learned that guided meditation helped. Listening to someone else guide the meditation rather than just trying to be quiet gave me something to focus on other than my own thoughts. Of course, at first, I was concentrating so much on the words and their meanings that it was a struggle. I finally let go of doing that also.

There are websites and free apps that provide free guided meditations. They helped me a lot. Do you think that something like that would work for you, or do you have a different problem from the one I described?
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Healthy88
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 03:05:00 PM »

You know what they say, when it rains it pours! I appreciate the suggestions with the meditation. My issues are the same as yours. It was almost comical reading your response. I guess I need to just try and work at it a little harder and maybe I will eventually be successful too.

I began wondering, if some of this could be due to uADD? I don't seem to have the hyperactivity, just the racing mind. Did discuss it with one of my doctors, but he said he wouldn't dream of putting me on a stimulant. Smart man!
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Meili
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 03:31:04 PM »

I've wondered about ADD myself, well, ADHD in my case. Whether I am or not is not so relevant to me as how to deal with it all. I just do what I can every day and keep moving forward. That doesn't work for everyone, but it has to me since I started my journey to heal and improve my life. I sincerely hope that you find what works for you in short order.

Again, I'm not suggesting that this is how things are for you, but I did realize that once the constant stress from the intense relationships in my life subsided, it was easier to think more clearly and focus better on what I needed to focus.

My relationship(s) had become the most important thing in my life. My mind would race from problem to problem trying to figure everything out and put all of the pieces together. Things that happened years prior were mixed with the current events in an effort to make sense of it all.

When the fog began to lift, the ruminations started to slow down. I had been in one dysfunctional relationship or another for so long, I didn't know that my mind worked any differently.
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Healthy88
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 04:02:49 PM »

I have only been in one marriage and only began seeing a couple of years ago that it is unhealthy. I couldn't put my finger on why exactly and of course, my SO either couldn't or didn't want to see it. If it is dysfunctional, it is naturally all due to me, in his opinion.

I think my first awakening was when he said he likes himself as he is, has no plans on changing, but doesn't like himself when he is around me. I suspect it is because I simply mirror who he really is back to him and that is not how he sees himself so he doesn't like it and would prefer to avoid it.

My big question is, have you had to maintain those relationships in some way due to children, etc. That is what I am struggling with the most right now. Trying to figure out how strong I truly am, how to stabilize myself again and my children's lives while still dealing with my husband, even if from two homes. I feel my kiddos will do best if I find ways to continue to work with my SO and try to help him also, as much as he will let me. I just don't see why there has to be any anger, meanness or ill will in the situation. I have let go of all of that from my side, I just wish he could too.
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Meili
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 04:27:00 PM »

I think my first awakening was when he said he likes himself as he is, has no plans on changing, but doesn't like himself when he is around me.

I heard these very same things from the two pwBPD traits with whom I've been romantically involved. They had no plans to change because they couldn't face their own problems as a result of the intense emotions. As a maladaptive survival technique, they would blame me rather than looking at themselves. That's where the anger, meanness, and ill will that you described came from.

My exwife, who I believe has been diagnosed, and I did not have a child together, but she was my daughter's stepmother. I had to constantly walk a tight-rope because I was getting hammered on both sides as a result of the BPD traits. To this day, years later, I still defend my exwife to my daughter.

Looking back on all of it, I can see how I escalated situations unnecessarily and how I triggered her. I would invalidate and JADE. I would get angry because I had no idea what was happening and how this woman who seemed so loving and caring could turn into such an angry and violent person in the blink of an eye.

Knowing what I know now, if I could do it all over again, I would still try. As I said, much of what happened between us probably could have been avoided had I but known how to talk to her. The broken dishes never would have happened had I been more empathetic. Fights about laundry, dishes, and daily chores would not have been an issue. I thought that she was just an angry person. I had no idea about BPD until many years later.

My guess is that you are strong enough. When we stop taking the words and actions of our pwBPD personally, it gets a lot easier and takes less strength. When we learn to communicate in a healthier manner, the meanness and rages seem to decrease in intensity and frequency. When we define and maintain healthy boundaries, it is even harder for our pwBPD hurt us.

There are no guarantees, but I have seen these things work in my own life and other members here have successfully used them as well.

What did you mean by, "I have let go of all of that from my side"?
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Healthy88
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 06:32:42 PM »

Just that I no longer harbor any anger or resentment towards SO. In the beginning I just thought he was selfish, immature, irresponsible, impulsive and reckless at times, etc. He is older than I am and I thought I was dealing with another somewhat emotionally healthy individual, so his behavior always amazed me, but I was just waiting for him to grow up.
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Meili
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 06:52:12 PM »

That makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.

I know how frustrated and angry I was before I started to understand what was going on. I took it all so personally. I actually started to believe that I was the horrible person that my ex claimed that I was.

Please do not get me wrong. I am not suggesting that the disorder is any excuse for the poor treatment. It isn't. But having some understanding about what was going on allowed me to look at the situation in a different light.

It also caused me to look at my own actions and how I responded to her. My own lack of maturity in my communications with her became evident. I started to realize that it had become so important to me to be right about whatever she was accusing me of that what she was conveying about how she felt was completely missed in the equation.

I'm sure that not every fight could have been avoided, but most probably could have.
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Healthy88
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 07:07:36 PM »

The scariest thing that I have read so far is that the longer one is in an unhealthy relationship, the more likely they are to suffer from depression, anxiety even PTSD or Complex PTSD. If the unhealthy relationship is with someone with BPD, they may even begin to take on traits of BPD themselves. So how does one stay in it, stay healthy and navigate healthy children out of it?
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Meili
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 07:24:19 PM »

Defining and maintaining boundaries will be a big help. We use boundaries to protect us and our values. I had trouble with boundaries. The thought that maintaining a boundary would push my ex away scared me. It is a pretty natural reaction.

If you don't want to have a discussion, and have decided that your boundary is that you won't, then don't. Ask him to stop or for time to consider what he's saying, go to a different room, or take the kids and leave if necessary. It is up to you to maintain the boundary when he ignores it.

There is a good read about boundaries HERE.

Also, I stopped believing what she was saying when my ex would call me names. She would tell me what a horrible person I was, that I was a worse mate, how I was less than a man because I wouldn't fight with her, and any number of other things. It took realizing that, if she actually believed such things, it was just her opinion and I don't have to agree with it. That's part of not taking it personally.
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Healthy88
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 09:56:14 PM »

Thanks for all the suggestions, clearly I have a lot more to learn!

My issues with SO are more about his lying, poor communication (the same word can literally mean two totally different things to us), no concept of how his actions effect others nor does he seem to care, him pretty much doing whatever he wants... .whenever he wants, him assuming he knows what I want because it is what he wants and then gets frustrated when it doesn't make me happy, his quick mood shifts and often he is just disconnected. He does get angry when he doesn't get his way. It is just like being in a relationship with someone who doesn't even know you or realize you are in the relationship with them. How can you not learn who someone is in 20 years, if you put in any effort at all?

A few months into the marriage, when things seemed not quite right to me, I asked him what his idea of marriage was. His response was that, it was for someone to fit into HIS life. I will never forget that conversation and the feeling of oh no, what do I do now?

I guess I am at that same place again 20 years later. We will never have an authentic  relationship because he is the only one in it.
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Meili
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 10:12:51 AM »

The lying was particularly frustrating to me. What I learned with my ex was exactly what you wrote about yours and communication:

Excerpt
the same word can literally mean two totally different things to us

It wasn't so much that she was lying as it was that we had two completely different understandings of the meaning of the words that she was using. To make matters worse, the meanings would change based on her mood at the moment. From what I understand, the reason behind this is because to a pwBPD, feelings = facts. So, how she felt in any particular moment was her factual reality. Because of this, it wasn't a lie as much as a distortion of what I considered reality because of the emotions involved.

To combat this, I had to learn to stop listening to the words and start listening to emotions behind the words. Also, I began to define and maintain healthy boundaries and not allow her to be responsible to anything that was important to me because she may or may not do what she promised, actually have done what she said that she did, or hide what she did and say that she didn't do it.

Additionally, pwBPD can view their non as objects. That seems to me to be what you are describing. Sometimes validation of the fears behind the actions and words can be helpful in this situation. There is an thread on here, written by a pwBPD, that may shine some light on this for you (BPD BEHAVIORS: Objectifying the romantic partner).
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Healthy88
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2017, 08:28:08 PM »

Wow. Firstly, that is a difficult read and a lot to wrap my head around. I think I will have to read it a few more times, in order for it to really sink in. 

Secondly, it was great to see how well someone with BPD can recover, if the commitment and treatment is there. I also was wondering if it is possible for a person to have more than one personality disorder. Sounds like maybe so and my SO is definitely more on the boarder of BPD & NPD. Originally, I thought he was all NPD, as I was completely missing the BPD component. I have also read, which is equally confusing to me, that the false self in BPD can project narcissism. Yet, that is not supposed to be the same thing as NPD? So does he truly have NPD or traits of it, or is this all just BPD? Needless to say, I am a little confused at the moment.

Thirdly, it was also an insightful read for me as it stirred up some anger feelings, which I now realize are due to feeling completely used and neglected by SO for the last 20 years. I guess I kind of felt like I was the best opportunity that ever came across his path and he wasted no time trying to capitalize on it. He did a wonderful job of fooling everyone else and has continued to for all of these years, but I was seeing through him pretty early on... .just wasn't able to get myself out of the relationship, unfortunately. I sadly felt more anger towards him than empathy for him, after reading it. I guess no one really likes feeling used much, hence, my reactions to how I felt I was being treated; whether justified or not. It certainly does not bring out my sweet, loving side, which only angers him!

Valuing people as objects may also explain, why the only thing he has ever complimented me on repetitively has been my looks, even though I think that is pretty shallow and totally objective. What is attractive to one, is not to another. Regardless, the way he treats me, makes me feel anything, but attractive. Matter of fact, a complete stranger made me feel more attractive within 15 minutes of meeting him, than my husband ever has in 20 years. I would think that if a man was truly attracted to his wife, that he might actually enjoying spending some time with her. However, I am thinking of an emotionally healthy and mature man, which obviously my SO is not.

Lots more to ponder. Your guidance and insights are very helpful so I hope you will continue with them.

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Healthy88
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2017, 10:57:44 PM »

Meili,

After some more reading, I think you sadly hit the nail on the head! I am learning so much, but also beginning to think that maybe ignorance was bliss
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Meili
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2017, 11:14:27 AM »

Yeah, I remember feeling that ignorance was bliss. It seemed like it was easier to handle everything when I didn't have any idea what was going on.

After I began to get more accustom to the realities of it all, I decided that it was more blissful to have an actual understanding and less chaos.
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Healthy88
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2017, 10:03:48 PM »

Hi Meili,

I imagine I will feel that way in time too. At first it just feels great to finally understand, but as reality begins to sink in it becomes a little overwhelming. It is great to finally get that he is the crazier one, but I actually feel like I am right now. I just wonder how long it is going to take to undo a lot of the damage? I guess it will continue to get easier with time and with T.

Below is a great article on Objectification for anyone else interested. After reading it, I kind of feel like most pwBPD Objectify to some degree in one way or another. It really does help one to realize what has happened and cleary see they were being mistreated, neglected and/or abused.
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