Career choice and troubled childhood

[Depression = 72% of members]

I grew up with a mentally ill mother and very narcissistic father.  As a teenager, I went from rebellious and wild to an overachiever.  I went to college, worked awhile and then went to law school.  The problem was that my personality was never a good fit for a career in law.  I stumbled through it and worked from college to age 50 as either a paralegal or attorney.  So five years ago, when I was abruptly laid off from a law firm, I couldn't find a job and I opened my own law firm.  I did that for three years and then it became too much.  I was unhappy, stressed out all the time and just hated it.  So I closed my law practice.  I tried to find less stressful jobs in the field of law with no luck.  I couldn't afford to go back to school and start a totally new career so I sought alternatives.

I found out I could train to become a medical coder  (in hospitals and doctors offices coders read medical charts and figure out the correct code for billing/insurance purposes), with just a short time in school/certification and very inexpensive.  My trouble is I am struggling with telling other  people what I am doing.  Like why would an attorney choose to start over after all that schooling for such a low pressure routine type of job.  I decided to volunteer at a local hospital to get some exposure to the health care field.  On my first day I told the person supervising me that I had been an attorney, hated it and wanted to get into medical records/health care field.  She abruptly stated something like that's a lot of schooling to hate it and then proceeded to have me put folders together for new patients.  So far in my volunteer work all I have done is these very menial tasks.  I had hoped to be social with others and patients and learn some valuable things about the health care industry.  When people approach me and see me putting together folders I feel quite unable to talk about myself or why I am volunteering.  It feels demeaning.  I am going to ask the volunteer coordinator to find me a different opportunity with more direct patient contact or higher skill level.

I guess I am just struggling with losing my identity as an attorney.  It stems from early painful childhood experiences with others that reinforced the need to be seen as an achiever, successful, high profile career etc.  Has anyone dealt with this or have any advice for me?

[thduda]

I grew up with a mentally ill mother and very narcissistic father.  As a teenager, I went from rebellious and wild to an overachiever.  I went to college, worked awhile and then went to law school.  The problem was that my personality was never a good fit for a career in law.  I stumbled through it and worked from college to age 50 as either a paralegal or attorney.  So five years ago, when I was abruptly laid off from a law firm, I couldn't find a job and I opened my own law firm.  I did that for three years and then it became too much.  I was unhappy, stressed out all the time and just hated it.  So I closed my law practice.  I tried to find less stressful jobs in the field of law with no luck.  I couldn't afford to go back to school and start a totally new career so I sought alternatives.

I found out I could train to become a medical coder  (in hospitals and doctors offices coders read medical charts and figure out the correct code for billing/insurance purposes), with just a short time in school/certification and very inexpensive.  My trouble is I am struggling with telling other  people what I am doing.  Like why would an attorney choose to start over after all that schooling for such a low pressure routine type of job.  I decided to volunteer at a local hospital to get some exposure to the health care field.  On my first day I told the person supervising me that I had been an attorney, hated it and wanted to get into medical records/health care field.  She abruptly stated something like that's a lot of schooling to hate it and then proceeded to have me put folders together for new patients.  So far in my volunteer work all I have done is these very menial tasks.  I had hoped to be social with others and patients and learn some valuable things about the health care industry.  When people approach me and see me putting together folders I feel quite unable to talk about myself or why I am volunteering.  It feels demeaning.  I am going to ask the volunteer coordinator to find me a different opportunity with more direct patient contact or higher skill level.

I guess I am just struggling with losing my identity as an attorney.  It stems from early painful childhood experiences with others that reinforced the need to be seen as an achiever, successful, high profile career etc.  Has anyone dealt with this or have any advice for me?

[Notwendy]

Over achiever here too. Then I became a stay at home mom. It was an identity adjustment as well as the loss of an admired career. But I think there was a silver lining - especially doing a job that gets little recognition and no paycheck. I learned that I was me- and my self worth didn't come from a title or career. Now I am back at work doing something different and I love my job.

My BPD mother has a college degree. In her era- women were housewives. Had she been my generation- it wound have been evident that she would not be able to function well in the workplace. She didn't do much of taking care of house and kids, but being a housewife was a acceptable position that hid her dysfunction. It still is an acceptable position! But women have other choices now too.

Although she didn't achieve professionally- there was expectation for her kids to. This is a good thing but we were her narcissistic supply. My being a stay at home mom didn't supply that for her.

I've encouraged my kids to make the most of their abilities and pursue a job or career that brings them satisfaction- for them . I also believe that people contribute in valuable ways - jobs don't have to be high profile to be important. Education should fit the person - whether it's community college, learning a trade, or an Ivy League school. Prestige is nice but not if someone is completely miserable. Happiness doesn't depend on prestige.

I think it's a good thing that you are exploring what pleases you, not what pleases your parents.

[KateCat]

Ah, putting together folders for new cases?   I think it must be a special kind of hazing. I experienced it again and again when I put aside my doctorate in an unrelated field and dove into a paralegal training program at my local community college.

Anyway, huge props for being a "complete esquire" and hanging in for so long in a demanding career. No one can take that away from you. And props as well for knowing when to take another direction.

I like what Notwendy says about the value of knowing who you are. (Or, as Ralph Ellison put it: "When I learn who I am, I'll be free."

Medical coding sounds not half-bad to me. I live in Seattle and may be very, very spoiled when it comes to community college offerings, but I wonder if you live in a metro area where you could pop in and out of classes at such schools. I found great camaraderie and acceptance of people of different ages and walks of life when I attended community college classes. Really a great, great way to meet people and be exposed to different fields of endeavor.

ADDED: I meant to say classes in the various fields of medical assisting. Those trainees always seemed to me to be so engaged and excited. Walking around with great props like giant toothbrushes, scrubs, stethoscopes, model skeletons.

[thduda]

Thanks for the replies.  I am just struggling with depression and it has affected my self esteem.  I am also realizing just how screwed up my thinking about myself has been.  That I am only o.k. if I have a successful career.  I have a wonderful marriage and I raised a son who is thriving in college studying what he is passionate about.  I should be proud of those things too.

[KateCat]

Just got myself caught up by reading your previous posts.  You have a lot of strengths and what sounds like a good therapist. I just want to say that I agree completely with your therapist about steering clear of your family of origin, at least for now.

And also that I so admire a person who can walk away from practice of the law when it does not suit. I have seen so, so many miserable attorneys who feel they have no choice but to march on and on. And I also see my nephew who is a fairly new attorney. It's who he is and what he's always wanted to be! He's braving all the misery and debt of being a recent law school graduate, and it's so clear that that is what he actually is, a lawyer. (Kind of like sexual orientation or something. You are or you aren't, it seems to me. Nothing to do with intelligence or work ethic.)

[Notwendy]

When I became a stay at home mom, my family treated me as if I had failed- "how could you waste that education". I stopped telling people what I used to do because I didn't want to deal with the questioning.

My mother, who has not ever had a career, is the most critical of her children's career choices. I have a sibling who also chose low profile work, and she is very critical of that sibling. But for narcissistic parents, they see their children as extensions of them- not as their own individual people. When we do something impressive, I guess they see it as they are impressive, and vice versa when we do not.

I don't believe education is wasted. Even as a mom, I was involved in my kids' schools, volunteer tutoring in the subjects I was good at, and using my skills in the school setting. I agree with asking for more patient contact- you must have good people skills. I wonder if there is some way you could be a patient advocate. Many hospitals assign patient advocates to help then navigate things like patient rights and billing concerns. Seems like a good combination of law and medicine to start with.

If you really like health care, you may even consider something like PA school in the future. You would probably need to go back and take the science pre-requisites, but since you already have a BA, it may not take that long.

[KateCat]

If you really like health care, you may even consider something like PA school in the future. You would probably need to go back and take the science pre-requisites, but since you already have a BA, it may not take that long.

I think something along this line too. This time in your life could be a great opportunity to use everything you're learning about yourself to move forward in ways that fit you, rather than anyone else. Try a bunch of things, always knowing that you can say "no" or "no more" when necessary.

[Turkish]

I agree that this sounds like hazing, and am indication that your boss is jealous.  She owns that, but may be using you to justify (be responsible for) her feelings.  No (boundary).

From what I see,  you accomplished a great deal and were successful. It was your choice to change careers. This doesn't diminish your previous accomplishment in the least! You chose to shift gears, and you chose your new path for you. 

Ten years ago, I went to visit an old friend in the state I lived in for a few years.  My buddy invited over a fellow engineer we'd worked with at the same start up fab  (semiconductor factory). He heard I was coming into town and wanted to see me. We hadn't been friends,  but were friendly colleagues. 

After I had left,  he had gone through a horrible divorce with a likely pwBPD. He thanked me profusely for teaching him a certain machine skill. Despite having an MS in engineering (I only have an A.A., but also have a technical certification), he decided due to personal reasons to take a job running a machine on the night shift. I got that he didn't want to deal with people,  and this was his way of coping yet still making a living.  It's a niche skill,  much like Radiology. He may have given up some salary, but not much.  I wasn't jealous at all.  He did what he felt was right for him,  even if it was basically a senior technician job.  With the shift bonus and possible overtime,  he was probably making good money anyway.  He did it for him,  and I've remembered that. 

If I had to say anything,  I'd be careful of oversharing in the future.  People have their own agendas. 

My mother tried to pull the "you aren't successful, you should do this, " on me 5 years ago.  I'm past the point of caring. The only valid thing is that I'm taking care of myself well  (and my kids). It can be tough,  having grown up with PD'd parents especially, being strong in the face of criticism. 

[Notwendy]

I recall seeing some news on depression where routine type- low stress jobs are beneficial to depressed people. Now, I understand that some repetitive tasks ( like making charts) aren't satisfying to you- but there are others. Every job has some stresses to it. But I think I recall from the article that lower stress- and regular work was helpful. This may be your happy place- in medical coding, or a stepping stone to the next stage- as it allows you to clear your thoughts and feel better over time.

If my mother says something, I consider the source. What is success anyway? In the grand scheme of things, it could be a good relationship with your children, being kind to others, being kind to yourself.

[Fie]

Hello 

Please let me congratulate you for having taken such a brave decision.
Stories like this always make me feel happy. Not hearing that you are depressed - I am btw sure you eventually will find a way out of that. But just hearing that some people are able to actually choose the things they *want* and clear out the garbage.

She abruptly stated something like that's a lot of schooling to hate it

I would like to echo here what Turkish said : everyone has his own agenda. A lot of people are unhappy and lack the courage to change that. Because of that they are not able to validate other people's efforts to become happier. Don't let this discourage you. Take a lesson from it : try to surround yourself with positive people. People who want the best for you. When someone tells you : well done, good on you !, try to keep him close to you. When someone doesn't cheer you on, try to avoid him and move on to better. It really works that way. I truly believe you can only be happy if you surround yourself with positive people.

A good friend of mine started a new career around 50. She has never been happier.
It doesn't matter that you went through a lot of schooling in law school. I am sure it brought you a lot. But now it's time for something new. Why is there this idea that we should only have one career in our lives ? We live long enough to want different things at different times.

Next to your career and your family, do you have a specific hobby, is there something your really like doing ?
Now that you have more time, it could be an idea to take up some classes, to go for walks, etc. ? Something you really like for you.

[ijustwantpeace]

I had a similar upbringing and it caused me to want to have nothing to do with people.  I drew a mental connection people=pain so I gravitated toward career options where I would not have to deal with people.

Having a BPD parent was a serious handicap for me in life.  My mother was unable to have successful interactions with anyone due to her lack of boundaries.  She had no sense of self and would try to help others whether they wanted it or not.  People don't like to be told what to do even if it comes from a place of concern.

As I reflect on my life I can see where I have had lots of collateral damage due to my lack of boundaries and interpersonal skills.  The sad part is that my true strengths are in more people oriented areas.  I also found myself constantly burned out trying to save people that did not want my help.

I had it in my head that starting a business on "small scale" to just help certain clientele was "selfish", and that I need to create something that could help everyone.  So much needless suffering in my life.  Last year I did not even know what boundaries are.  No I am clean on that, and it is really helping out.

I am alot happier, and the people around me are happier as well.  As a rule of thumb most people just want to live the netflix life and not be told what to do.  So I let them, and am happier than ever.

I would not give up on law completely.  As for a reason to do medical coding just say you need "normal hours".  I used mileage as my excuse to not do tech work 50k miles per year too much.  Just say the hours were unpredictable and  you could not go on like that.

Boundaries have had such an amazing effect on my life.  It is more for me than my BPD mom.  I am having much more successful interactions with others and most of the credit is boundaries.  I also work on getting rid of limiting beliefs, but I would go easy on that as they are tough.  I was a big time quitter, but promised myself that I would finish projects and developed persistence.  Also, don't have grace on yourself and don't try to do too much self work at once it can spril you downward pretty quickly.  Just a little at a time and you will be ok.

Hang in there.  Things will get better.

[thduda]

Thank you all for your replies.  I am in month one of a nine month program to become certified in medical billing.  I am already committed to that.  I really don't have the desire to become a physicians assistant or nurse or anything that would require a lot of schooling.  I have explored radiology but I had no college math whatsoever and I couldn't even get into that program.  I explored a degree in health information management but again - my math skills aren't up to par.  It requires a statistics class which requires other math prerequisites and it just isn't working for me.  I haven't been exposed to any math in any form since 1982.  I tried to do some math skill building on line and it was awful how bad I was.

I started the volunteer work at the hospital simply to get out of the house (to help with my depression), be around other people and get some health care experience to put on my resume. 

I think I did overshare with the person supervising my volunteer work.  I felt judged.  I don't think she is happy in her job.  As far as hazing goes, with putting together the folders-I don't think that is the case-it was simply the work they have available for any given volunteer that chooses to work in that clinic. 

I spoke to my volunteer coordinator and he is switching me to an acute care nursing floor where I would be answering phones and having direct contact with patients-not stuck alone in an office putting together folders.

I guess I could approach the people in the new volunteer situation a bit differently.  Something like, I've decided to explore working in the medical field and want to get some exposure to it before I commit.  I mean who cares what I did before, I could have been a stay at home mom or simply in a different field.

As far as hobbies, sadly my depression has been hindering me from pursuing them.  I used to hike, run, do photography and other creative stuff.  I just haven't felt like doing them.

[Grandmotherbear]

The Florida Bar Journal has in the past few years featured articles on lawyers who switched fields out of law totally. There are widely felt to be too many lawyers in FL yet the law schools keep pumping out graduates.  To me, that is part of the problem. So, remember that you're an adult, and you are free to make any decisions you want. As I used to tell some of my new-to-the-Hospice field nurses and social workers, freedom includes the freedom to be a damned fool, or else what good is it?

As for feeling the need to be a super-achiever, my 45th birthday suddenly released me fro the onus of HAVING to be a child prodigy outstanding in the fields my parents chose (which did NOT include nursing)
Good luck.

[thduda]

Yes, I know a lot of unhappy lawyers.  Its adversarial, clients can be nasty and lie to you, other lawyers can try to trip you up.  Its just not a nice profession.  I am happy to be leaving it.  Just trying to find my way to a new me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey thduda:   

I understand that you don't want to deal with clients and a courtroom. Just wondering if you you might be a fit for a large company that has it's own legal department?  I'm thinking they have various levels of support personnel.  Perhaps it could be a job reviewing purchasing and service contracts for a company or perhaps HR issues.

I know you indicate that you searched for a job in the legal field before, but you can keep a resume out on the internet.  You never know when you get a nibble from an employer, if only for temp work.  Many people find great jobs by working through temp agencies, or connecting with headhunters.  I guess if you live in a small community, it might be more of a challenge.  Just sharing some thoughts.  I'm even thinking that hospitals have employees supporting their legal needs.

[thduda]

Most of the in house counsel jobs want experience.  I have looked for compliance jobs/HR etc.  Nothing.  I have been trying for two years.  I am burned out from the search and just want to move on.