Does it ever work out?

[heartandmind]

Hi everyone! 

To spare you my story and cut to the chase, does it ever actually work out in the end with lovers with BPD?

I try not to read too much online regarding people's opinions about pwBPD, as I know a lot of it comes from scorned ex-lovers or friends who paint pwBPD as these unfeeling, cheating, terrible, sadistic, unloving individuals.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with that. As someone who suffers from mental illness myself, I understand how self protection sometimes takes charge (unmeaningly) and people get hurt big time in the process. It has never ever been my intention to hurt anyone (I've felt terribly about it in the end) and when I was ready, I made my reparations. Perhaps this is what gives me the empathy and hope to "understand" them. Am I wrong?
Actually, I find it quite funny (and sometimes ironic) to hear from pwBPD directly about the way they truly feel and the battles they actually face in relationships versus how nons tend to view them from the outside (for example: a pwBPD's self-described shame spirals that send them into hiding versus a non's view of disappearance, cruelty, and callousness).

My ex and I broke up almost a year ago, but she has not been in a committed relationship with anyone else since. We have had four very positive interactions from then, but every time we speak, she runs away yet again, disappearing for weeks to months at a time until she returns to repeat the same act.
Now I know what people online would say about this: breadcrumbs, breadcrumbs, breadcrumbs, being manipulative in a negative/bad way, doesn't really care, feeding her ego, etc., but all I see is a scared girl who broke up with me because she needed to mature in the first place who is now trying to keep the door open in hopes to one day return when she is fit to. I know, I know... .those same people would call me beyond naive! Haha!

Anyway, are there any success stories out there? Or even quasi-success stories? Opinions and experiences please!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patrick1991]

Hi questioning 80. I'm kind of in the same position and I have the same point of view as you that pwBPD are just extremely scared and vunerable people who need to love themselves before anybody else. Mine BPD partner hasn't ever painted me black or been negative to me, it's seems as though when I get really close she pulls away and disappears for weeks at a time. It's been 6 weeks now since I last heard from her and that was very difficult over Christmas. I don't know if she will ever come back.

When you BPD partner contacts you what kind of conversation do you have?

[Beck20ish]

My world has recently gone nc after a whirlwind romance and daily contact since September. today is the first day I haven't text or tried to call her, as the last messages from her said she wasn't feeling well, then that she was sorry I felt like I do and that nothing was intentional after I'd text to say I was scared and felt sick all the time. We've not fallen out, had words etc the only thing was I was unable to meet her due to other things getting in the way.
It's been a week since she last text and hasn't answered calls for 2 weeks. How long should I wait before I accept she doesn't really want me?

[patrick1991]

Hi beck20ish. That is the million dollar question, how long should we wait? I've been 6 weeks now without a peep from my BPD girlfriend and I don't know if to call of quits or not. My gut it telling me to stick in there because I love her so much, but there is only so much I can take of this no contact/silent treatment. What is your gut telling you?

[drained1996]

Hello all, I see there are 3 of you newbies in this thread.  I'm going to focus on the original post and we all can go from there.

Yes questioning80,

There have been some success stories, and there are also many that are not.  It's really up to the individuals that are in the relationship and how they are willing to work to make things better.  I believe two people working their best towards the same goal can accomplish most anything. There are also experiences shared here that will show, that even just the non working with correct expectations and using the lessons and tools here can get a relationship where they find it acceptable.  Those tools and lessons I mention can be found in the upper right margin of this page. 
We will be here to support and help all of you the best we can to work through the difficulties of a relationship with a BPD.  I suggest you all take the time to read through the material on the right of this page.  It's the beginning of a blueprint to help move things in a more positive direction when you do get the chance.  One thing many of us have learned, we cannot fix or control them, but we can change how we react to and communicate with them... .and that can mean a lot.   

[Beck20ish]

Hi Patrick1991,
I'm unsure myself what I think if I'm honest.
In one sense she'd always told me how she becomes like this and pushes people away but we never discussed what I should or shouldn't do when she's like it.
I think the circumstances of our relationship just got too much for her and she's protecting herself in one way but in another I'm wondering if she took all the love I could give till I said ok by this summer we will be together and then just got bored as the chase was done.
She gave me a mug for Christmas with a rabbit hiding behind a newspaper, then she asked if I knew why she'd chosen it. I assumed it was because the maker had my name but jokingly said does it tell me I'm dumped at which point she snapped at me" oh you're funny, at some point you'll understand"
I thought she was depressed so have tried my hardest to be reassuring but after reading lots online it would seem she's basically abusing me by remaining silent while i'm pouring out my heart and heartbroken and that she will maybe at some point come back to get a feel good fix then kick me to the curb again!

[patrick1991]

Beck20ish, your story just resonates with me and has so many similarities. She told me the same as well that shes pushes people away, but when i tried to understand why she did it or what can i do in the future she didn't want to discuss it really and it was like at that moment i knew it would happen again, but i tried to put it to the back of my mind because i love her so much.

I've been pouring my heart out as well and the more i read it really doesn't help at all which is frustrating and i'm to think that at some point she will come crawling back so i can tell her how amazing she is before she goes awol again. I think the advice i've been given and what i've read is to stop contacting her because its making me look clingy and desperate (even though i feel like i haven't just telling her how special she is) and hopefully when shes ready she will contact me and then i can get some boundaries set in place for when it happens again. How do you feel about going no contact yourself? How often do you message her?

[patrick1991]

I agree ibean. You'll always have it at the back of your mind what your partner is capable of and how they can just detach from you so easily after loving you. I don't know whats going to happen with me and my partner after 6 weeks shes been quiet. I don't know if she will ever come back, but its definitely made me stronger and wiser if she comes back and does it again.   

[PeteWitsend]

I think if you read the "success" stories, you'll find that they really aren't successful.  And honestly I have to laugh at the word success. The relationships are still fraught with abuse and neglect for the non.   It all boils down to what do you want to put up with?  It will never be a normal loving equal relationship.  It's not possible.  And your kids will bear the scars their entire lives.

yeah... .At this point I'm almost completely resigned to this viewpoint.

The constant fights aren't as bad as the surprise ones.  and those are the ones that really get concerning & draining over time.  I can steel myself and acclimate to long weeks of constant fights and sniping... .(i may have a thousand yard stare by the end of it) ... .but There have been a number of times I think we're good, she started the day happy, we're doing something together or as a family and then *SLAM* I'm being confronted with something I said or didn't say, or something that happened a year ago, and told I didn't meet her expectations, or she's not over it.  OR Randomly asked if I really love her or would divorce her -out of the blue - and then dealing with her running away in tears when the answer she got wasn't what she hoped to hear (no matter how reassuring I tried to be).  OR How easily a happy situation - eg opening presents on christmas, or a date night - can get toxic when some random past memory or fight comes to her mind.

I've been married almost 4 years, w/2 kids, and I've pretty much given up hope.

I shake my head reading accounts from people who aren't in committed relationships with a pwBPD... .look there are more fish in the sea!  being lonely for a few months is much easier to bear than years of marriage where the only out is a painful divorce and separation of assets... .and it there are children involved, joint custody and continuous contact and fights over them.

if you're considering committing to a relationship with a pwBPD - or at least who strongly displays many of the characteristics - get help for yourself first.  Do it quietly if need be.  don't rush into this, and consider whether some personal issue is leading you into it... .fear of loneliness, abandonment, etc.  I should have done this a long time ago.

[Meili]

I have a totally different view on this than the last few posters.

It is possible to have a stable relationship with a pwBPD. There are success stories out there. BPD is just a challenge that both partners need to accept and deal with in order to make it happen.

It's very easy to blame the disorder for the relationship woes. But, the disorder is only part of the equation. The non is 100% for 50% of the relationship. Let's compare BPD to alcoholism. Can a relationship with a severe alcoholic work and become stable? Yep.

The intensity of the illness and willingness to deal with the problem become paramount in the success of the relationship. Just like with the severe alcoholic, the pwBPD has to be willing to work on the relationship.

In both types of relationships, the non can help keep the things alive, but it will eventually take both parties to make things sustainable long term.

[Beck20ish]

Today I have had mixed emotions, going from anger at myself for allowing myself to belive that I was everything she said she ever wanted and feeling so loved, and so special after such a short amount of time to anger at her for being so 100% perfect and everything I ever wanted,  which was a lie. Then I feel a great sense of sorrow for her as I know she is essentially broken inside and maybe feeling things 100x worse than I do as she believes I lied to her and didn't live up
To her expectations. Somthe silent treatment is obviously my punishment.
After talking it through with my mum a mental health worker I've identified "how I disrespected her" and as hard as it is and as lost as I feel right now I know I couldn't deal with the level of egg shells I'd need to walk on to be  with her as no matter I do it would never be enough!
It almost feels like I should have known better as if something seems too good to be true it usually is!

[Duped 1]

It's very easy to blame the disorder for the relationship woes. But, the disorder is only part of the equation. The non is 100% for 50% of the relationship. Let's compare BPD to alcoholism. Can a relationship with a severe alcoholic work and become stable? Yep.

I respectfully disagree with this. When dealing with a mentally ill person I don't feel the non can truly influence 50% of the relationship because these relationships are not-balanced and all about the self-centeredness and needs of the pwBPD in my non expert opinion. Now if the pwBPD is willing to own their part and seek the necessary help then it's probably closer, but still not 50% on the non in my opinion.

[Meili]

I can see why you say that Duped 1. I strongly suspect that most, if not all, nons don't completely understand what is going on in their relationship with a pwBPD. They are doing the best that they can with the tools that they have at the time.

I know that before I found the  bpdfamily, I lacked many of the tools necessary to navigate a relationship. I would JADE, had almost no boundaries, lacked empathy, and was forever invalidating. I escalated the chaos at every corner. My insecurities kept me involved and engaged.

That's what I meant when I said 50%. I was responsible for own actions. I chose to engage or not to engage. I escalated situations that could have been quashed at the onset.

When I learned to own my part in things, I was able to look at why I did them and understand how to change them. Had I simply blamed my x for most or all of the problems, I would have never looked at my own issues and I'd still be stuck in the cycle.

[drained1996]

To follow Meili... .by doing what he did... .which was to be introspective and understand and acknowledge his own part in the dance.  Once understood he was able to use the tools and lessons here to get things to a place that was better. 

I experienced much of the same, stubborn as I am, I learned my own part in the dysfunction in therapy.  I wasn't even taking care of my 50% by a long shot... .so she actually had some legit complaints!  Does it equal out to 50/50?  It may if they put in their work.  If they aren't willing, but we are, and we try... .then we can assess the situation and act accordingly.  In my own process, when I improved so did the relationship. 

[Duped 1]

To follow Meili... .by doing what he did... .which was to be introspective and understand and acknowledge his own part in the dance.  Once understood he was able to use the tools and lessons here to get things to a place that was better. 

I experienced much of the same, stubborn as I am, I learned my own part in the dysfunction in therapy.  I wasn't even taking care of my 50% by a long shot... .so she actually had some legit complaints!  Does it equal out to 50/50?  It may if they put in their work.  If they aren't willing, but we are, and we try... .then we can assess the situation and act accordingly.  In my own process, when I improved so did the relationship. 

Yes I certainly understand the the rs improved with a different approach and I was clearly part of the dysfunction with my reactions. That being said I still do not feel we can really positively impact half of the rs when the other is not willing to admit or acknowledge their part and provides a steady infusion of toxicity into the rs in the form of anger, belittling, constant criticism and blame, self centeredness no consideration of the others needs, verbal insults and attacks, threatening to leave over minor issues, etc.

[Meili]

For clarification purposes, I was not suggesting that a person can "positively impact half of the rs when the other is not willing to admit or acknowledge their part."

What I was saying is that we are all responsible for half of the relationship. The relationship consists of two people. Each person is half of the relationship. Each person is solely responsible for his/her actions, good or bad, within the relationship.

When we continue to blame the other person for our own actions, we fail to acknowledge our part.

If one person resorts to name calling (their 50%), we are 100% responsible for how we choose to respond (our 50%). Ignoring our half means that we are ignoring our own motivations and that's what keeps us trapped.

[SuperJew82]

Pete speaks from Wisdom.

 I'm trying to repair myself from a year and a half of emotional torture. My very good friend, who happens to be of the caretaking personality as well ( maybe that's why we are such good friends ) got stuck in a divorce with two kids with a BPD. We caretakers are open season specials for BPD sufferers. I would have a different opinion if someone was involved with a "recovering" BPD individual that was already going to therapy for years on their own accord - but this is rarely the case.

Mine got accidently diagnosed when I told her to stop stealing my adderall (ADHD meds) and properly get your own script. She expected to see the Dr and get a quick script, but instead walked out of the office dizzy with bewilderment and a personality disorder diagnosis. While she was in the daze, she shared the paperwork with me... .later to deny that it ever happened. I really think she believed what she was saying as they will distort past events to wrap around their emotions.

Right now you can easily do a course correction and make your life not suck.

Before you make any commitments - you better follow the words of the great philosopher Ice Cube and... .check yourself!

-rh

[talks to angels]

So it appears that some people believe in fairy tales.
How does anyone actually believe that they played 50% in the demise of these relationships? Well maybe you did, but I can say without hesitation that I did not. I tried, the "pick and choose your battles" approach with mine. No what it got me? Him pushing the boundary line further and further. I cant count how many times I told him I would never leave I was in it for life.
Questioning80, yes I get it when you say their shame spirals them, but for most of us they treat us with such cruelty, and when they go silent with no explanation, come back and throw it all back on us with no remorse. In what way is my expressing that I am hurt no acceptable? So if we actually never have feelings and do not express our hurt it can work. How is it that there is some expectation for us to just take the abuse from those who are not remorseful for their actions? In what way is having a mental illness an excuse to abuse? They wreck the person closest to them self-esteem, and confidence and leave them for dead.

[SuperJew82]

In my ideal world, BPD sufferers would have to go to a mandatory two years of solid therapy before they are issued their dating license... .

[SuperJew82]

joking of course... .but the sad part is that the disorder can be made tolerable if they stick in therapy long enough... .but mine couldn't and I hear that is not uncommon for them to avoid help. They seem to only do it if it is strategic to avoiding abandonment.

[Beck20ish]

My gf and I had only been together 3 months when she went silent so guess that's what i would have been in for a lot had the relationship gone any further, having read a lot since she went nc I've learnt that she was mirroring my need and emotion and that wasn't the real her at all.
I obviously have issues myself which need to be addressed, and although I feel sad and heartbroken, I see that she has in the short tamount of time together taught me a lesson x

[SuperJew82]

If she really was BPD and you are realizing everything this quickly. You have got off luckily. Yes , you can't blame everyone for these situations... .We made these choices. We have to figure out why and make sure we don't subject ourselves to it again. You are smart for figuring this out so early. I was not as intelligent - as it took me a year. I'm NC for a little over a month and I'm very proud of myself. It hurts, but man I was in hell. I did the right thing. I'm a single dad of two little girls... .I have to do it for them, if not for me.

[SuperJew82]

I still need validation everyday. I read articles and stories that mirror mine exactly and I know I made the healthy choice. Hopefully after a while I won't need to visit these pages for reassurance - but I am still afraid of falling back in. I had to block her on every form of communication that existed. I never had someone come back at me with that intensity. I'm free and you should be thankful you are as well.

Oh yea they will transform into your dreamgirl before they go turn into something from hell.

[heartandmind]

Questioning80, yes I get it when you say their shame spirals them, but for most of us they treat us with such cruelty, and when they go silent with no explanation, come back and throw it all back on us with no remorse.
In what way is my expressing that I am hurt not acceptable? So if we actually never have feelings and do not express our hurt it can work. How is it that there is some expectation for us to just take the abuse from those who are not remorseful for their actions? In what way is having a mental illness an excuse to abuse? They wreck the person closest to them self-esteem, and confidence and leave them for dead.

Of course, there are different "shades" of BPD. My ex always took full accountability for her actions but just couldn't break her habits. Because of this, she has shown great remorse after going silent and disappearing. She also never raged or picked fights. Of course, none of this would ever improve without a great deal of therapy, which she was not necessarily getting. She was most definitely a waif, so I had many other issues to deal with... .she would just shut down completely for months at a time, which quite honestly could be arguably more aggravating.

Should I have been in a situation where things were more hostile, perhaps I would react differently. However, this is not something that I can speak to given my situation and circumstance.

As unrealistic as this can sound, never taking it personally is the ultimate way to go. The minute I stopped relating her actions to be responses to myself as a person was the exact moment that I reached freedom, total sympathy (and sometimes even empathy), and inner peace.

It is a journey, for sure. I suppose it's just a matter of whether someone is willing to put in all of their time to even possibly make it work then or at some point in the future.

All just my two cents and experience!

[talks to angels]

I suppose it's just a matter of whether someone is willing to put in all of their time to even possibly make it work then or at some point in the future.

Seriously. I find this insulting! I put in the work I was patience, kind and loving. And I was not over sensitive.
 I think maybe yours was just depressed, either that or you were really not that close. what you are describing is not BPD. Trust me BPD destroy the ones closest to them.  You said she is not in treatment so how do you know she is BPD?

[heartandmind]

I suppose it's just a matter of whether someone is willing to put in all of their time to even possibly make it work then or at some point in the future.

Seriously. I find this insulting! I put in the work I was patience, kind and loving. And I was not over sensitive.
 I think maybe yours was just depressed, either that or you were really not that close. what you are describing is not BPD. Trust me BPD destroy the ones closest to them.  You said she is not in treatment so how do you know she is BPD?

She was clinically diagnosed. Multiple times. Had been going to therapy since she was just a child. She was simply not attending therapy regularly at the time that we were together.

I dated her for years and she was my best friend in the world. We knew no one better than we knew each other... .we were close. As close as close could possibly be.

She never raged or fought with me though, and that is still a certain form of BPD, of course! BPD is simply marked emotional dysregulation and an ultimate fear of abandonment and, at some points, intimacy. She did destroy me, trust me, but not in an outlash-y way like many here's SOs did. She was a waif, so she destroyed me in a way where she would dysregulate and disappear and leave me without my second half, my heart, my soul... .abandon me without any sign or warning at the drop of a hat, only to return soon thereafter. Of course, this is cruel and sent me into a downspin, whether she meant it or not.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was trying to say – I was the best partner in the world to my ex as well, but it was still never going to work out if she was not getting intensive assistance. Since our breakup I have put months and months and months into researching the disorder, speaking to sufferers firsthand, reading every book imaginable, and so on, just trying to learn the ropes so if she ever does come back, I am well equipped and will not make nearly the same amount of mistakes I did in the past.

No harm meant and it certainly wasn't directed towards you-- I do not know your story or your attempts, I was just speaking generally regarding how much work people are looking to put in to understand the disorder, its triggers, and downfalls. There are some people who don't think it's worth it to continue soldiering on, learning, researching, discovering, and that's fine as well. Doesn't make them any worse of a person, we're all human and have our breaking points. That is all that I was getting at.

[talks to angels]

i get it sorry, guess it just triggered me when I read that. I obviously have huge issues with anyone suggesting that if I did things differently we could have worked. I even tried the not pointing out any of the thousands of lies at one point and continual reassurance that I wasnt going to go anywhere. Did it work? Nope. In away I think they hate that we can feel and love with extreme depth, and it is such an extreme jealously that they are hell bent on destroying anyone that gets close to them.

[heartandmind]

i get it sorry, guess it just triggered me when I read that. I obviously have huge issues with anyone suggesting that if I did things differently we could have worked. I even tried the not pointing out any of the thousands of lies at one point and continual reassurance that I wasnt going to go anywhere. Did it work? Nope. In away I think they hate that we can feel and love with extreme depth, and it is such an extreme jealously that they are hell bent on destroying anyone that gets close to them.

I understand.

I think dealing with BPD is so frustrating as well because it really can be such a chameleon of a spectrum disorder. My ex partner never lied to me (or at least I never ever caught her?), so I can't relate to that. As silly as it is, I wish there were sub-forums where certain SO's of pwBPD could gather given their symptoms - rage, lying, abandonment, shut downs, etc. Though given that over 100 combinations of the 5 of 9 DSM4 symptoms needed for diagnosis exist, I suppose though the possibilities are quite endless  If only!

[Duped 1]

I don't feel it's realistic to suggest that the non would typically contribute 50% to the demise of the rs with a mentally ill partner. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe if the pwBPD is completely committed to improvement and actively seeking help but even then I feel it would be rare that it's 50/50. Heck there are counselors that understand the tools who still won't deal With these people because they can be so difficult. I know a couple Who have told me so

[talks to angels]

 Duped 1 - Someone ahem (clearing throat) has their mailbox full