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Happy1
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« on: January 13, 2017, 12:29:28 PM »

Hi All,

First time poster here. I just found this site and have learned a lot from friends of mine who told me about it.

It's been several years since my break up from my xUBPD girlfriend.

When I hear from mutual friends or look on social media (I know, bad me) it always appears that the person I and others had so much trouble in having a relationship with is so truly happy and normal today.

When she broke up with me, it was traumatic for me, but essentially I was replaced by a guy that she barely knew, but thought was the greatest person she'd ever met. Of course, she told me this during the break up, making me feel even more inadequate than she had already done so in the entire relationship. I was skeptical that it would last since nothing prior to me lasted more than a year or two. Our relationship, fraught with term oil, by and large, lasted two years or so, because I was always hanging in there for her. When we ended things, I really had hopes that she'd not make my replacement relationship work, but she apparently has for about 15 yrs. She's gotten married to the guy replaced me with, had kids, the kids are star athletes, and I hear from friends all the time that her and her husband are on this and that exotic vacation together, etc. She's active in a local women's business group and now appears to be doing great. Their wonderful home was recently featured in a local magazine, etc.

I've gone on myself to have some successes too and am happy I'm no longer involved with this person, but it doesn't appear that she ever went through any really tough times like I had to to move on. She found a replacement for me and really seems to have made it work. But with me (and prior, because she told me all about her previous relationships) she was truly bat-xxxx crazy (BPD, 6 out of 9 criteria easy).

Any insights as to what you think happened or is happening would give my psyche and moral a bit of a boost. Can things be as rosy as they appear? I'm skeptical. Is it all an facade to cover up the term oil I suspect has continued to exist? Are the husband and kids just objects in her image making? Or, has she simply found the right person and grown out of her behavior from her early 20s and matured enough to have a very normal and happy life? Is all of this "wonderfulness" really just a cover for crazy life?
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2017, 01:26:13 PM »

Welcome,
This is a very common question.

Truth is unless she got treatment she hasn't changed. Everyone thought my marriage was perfect. Only I knew the truth.
We cannot see the truth through social media, we only see what people want us to see.
For example, try dating, how many profile pictures are at all accurate? LOL

If you were still together, or got back together with her she would be exactly who she was before. Nothing has changed.
You know her reality is not what you see on social media. Don't beat yourself up over it. She will crash and burn again. Just takes time.
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schwing
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 01:27:13 PM »

Hi VeeG8s and Welcome

When we ended things, I really had hopes that she'd not make my replacement relationship work, but she apparently has for about 15 yrs. She's gotten married to the guy replaced me with, had kids, the kids are star athletes, and I hear from friends all the time that her and her husband are on this and that exotic vacation together, etc. She's active in a local women's business group and now appears to be doing great. Their wonderful home was recently featured in a local magazine, etc.

You never know what's going on on the inside of a relationship (looking from the outside). That said, people with BPD (pwBPD) can establish relatively stable relationships with other people with "compatible" issues. My parents, for example, are a pair of BPD (mother) and NPD (father).  I would never want their relationship in a million years, but it works for them; for whatever reasons, they stay together (40+ years).

If one side of your ex's relationship is a narcissist, then they will have the motivation to present an "ideal" appearance on social media.  You don't know what it is like on the inside.

When she broke up with me, it was traumatic for me, but essentially I was replaced by a guy that she barely knew, but thought was the greatest person she'd ever met. Of course, she told me this during the break up, making me feel even more inadequate than she had already done so in the entire relationship. I was skeptical that it would last since nothing prior to me lasted more than a year or two. Our relationship, fraught with term oil, by and large, lasted two years or so, because I was always hanging in there for her.

My understanding of borderline personality disorder, is that closeness and intimacy, is a big trigger for pwBPD.  Your experience of "always hanging in there for her," could have possibly exacerbated her issues; non-intuitive I know.

It would have been a completely different dynamic if you always kept her at a distance as narcissists are wont to do.  That's how I think my father manages to stay with my mother... .at some level, he doesn't care or connect; and that makes him far less likely to trigger my mother in the way that my siblings and I have in the past.  But how my parents conduct their relationship is not an arrangement I would choose for myself.

... .but it doesn't appear that she ever went through any really tough times like I had to to move on. She found a replacement for me and really seems to have made it work. But with me (and prior, because she told me all about her previous relationships) she was truly bat-xxxx crazy (BPD, 6 out of 9 criteria easy).

Again, you don't know what goes on on the inside of their relationship.  And arguably, you shouldn't care.  But I understand that you do, if for no reason than to understand that what you went through was true... .that it did happen.  And it was not all in your head.

I understand that it would validate your experience if you could witness her current relationship implode. But she's in a different relationship, with a different person.  She still has her issues, but it is manifesting in a different way.  Not all BPD relationships explode catastrophically.  Even in these forums, there are examples of BPD relationships lasting for years and decades before the partner realizes that they are left as the shell of the person they once were; or that their relationship is closer to that of a child and parent, or of distant roommates, rather than as life partners.

Any insights as to what you think happened or is happening would give my psyche and moral a bit of a boost. Can things be as rosy as they appear? I'm skeptical. Is it all an facade to cover up the term oil I suspect has continued to exist? Are the husband and kids just objects in her image making? Or, has she simply found the right person and grown out of her behavior from her early 20s and matured enough to have a very normal and happy life? Is all of this "wonderfulness" really just a cover for crazy life?

Maybe. I find it very difficult to believe that anyone can spontaneously "cure" themselves of personality disorders. And people can co-exist in dysfunctional but stable relationships. You would have to be close to them to truly get a hint of whether or not they are truly happy. But if you are not close to them, why would you care?

Look into why you still have this curiosity.  What's going on in your life in those moments that you have an itch towards looking into how she is doing?  Something is still haunting you and it would be worthwhile to look into what is going on in your life that makes you question your experience with this exBPDgf.

Best wishes,

Schwing
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 02:04:43 PM »

Vee,
  Please keep in mind, a BPD never just replaces you with someone. Usually, it's been in the works for awhile.

BPD's don't just leave a relationship, they leave for another relationship.

They cannot be alone. They need someone to mirror.

Looking at FB is not healthy. I've been there. You do know that it's also called FAKEbook, right? Your ex is not posting the bad times with her significant other. She is only posting the good, for all to see.

It took me a long time to realize this. There is no way in heck this person who treated me like garbage is all of a sudden "America's Sweetheart". Now, 2yrs into her new relationship the cracks are starting to show (through mutual friends).

Don't compare yourself to your replacement, it's fruitless. Your replacement is getting the same person you got. It doesn't matter how long they are with your replacement either. When it comes down to it, this person was NOT healthy for you and you are free of it.
 
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 05:51:25 PM »

Schwing & Pretty Woman,

I know you guys are right. I'd say that I still care, because the pain has never left me that she literally claimed the new person was much better than me in very way (e.g. better looking, more intelligent, better mannerisms, etc.). She actually would say these things to me. When I think about it today, I say to myself, "Who says those things to someone, in person?" Only evil people, really. So, yea, there's that side of me that is still wishing that some relationship pain will befall her. She certainly deserves it.

Then when reading your responses one of the things that I never considered was, she might have gotten exactly the relationship she wanted. As Shwing sort of put it, the relationship may not be that deep or really all that rewarding, from my perspective. And that may have been the whole thing about trying to have a relationship with her to begin with. She literally wasn't going to be capable of having the same level of a relationship I desired for the two of us. Which is likely true. That's why it didn't work out ultimately, right? So, I suppose their relationship is probably really different from what I'd view a successful intimate relationship. Maybe, it's just about showing off, together and doing things like exotic trips and telling the whole world. Or, about making sure your home is featured locally and everyone sees it as a success. Maybe, that's why it works, it's all about the show.

On a side note, for others that might be reading. A couple of weird things happened in our relationship. You have to remember that I'd never had any inkling about BPD or anything related to personality disorders at the time, but I still thought these were strange. She once called me bawling that she'd been alone in her apartment for sometime and that she hated herself for being so selfish. Also, once while riding with her in her car, I was rummaging around in the messy console she kept and found a small snapshot of myself that I had sent her a couple of years before. I asked her why she had been keeping it there and she said she didn't know, but she like looking at it at times just to remember that I was still "with" her (fear of abandonment issues, big time). Often I'd come over to her place to hang out, as couples do, she'd retreat to her bedroom claiming she wasn't ready yet. She'd go to her bedroom for an extended period of time. One time when I checked on her, I caught her half dressed just staring at herself in the mirror. When she saw that I'd caught her staring at herself, she went ballistic. I wasn't doing anything creepy or anything, just concerned as to what was taking her so long. It was if I'd invaded so sort of weird private mental prep time or something. Finally, when we first were going out, she called me once and started to tell me that if she died in her apartment that likely nobody would know for days and that made her distraught. Again, so weird. There were other weird behavior anomalies too, but I leave those out for now. However, when she needed to be on, around people or company, there was nobody that could be more on than her, whether it was sex appeal or the simply the life of the party.
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 08:06:13 PM »

When I think about it today, I say to myself, "Who says those things to someone, in person?" Only evil people, really.

Think of it this way: she wasn't really talking to/about you.  She was venting/attacking the person she believed abandoned/betrayed/denigrated her.  And at that moment in time, she believed that person was you; it will be someone else in the future.

Her venom was disproportionate (or completely disconnected) from how you actually interacted with her.  Her venom was for the injury she imagined that she sustained from you.

She literally wasn't going to be capable of having the same level of a relationship I desired for the two of us. Which is likely true. That's why it didn't work out ultimately, right?

Not only was she incapable of sustaining that kind of relationship, your effort to make it so was probably aggravating the issues of her disorder.

She once called me bawling that she'd been alone in her apartment for sometime and that she hated herself for being so selfish.

You probably didn't think she was acting in the way she described.  Perhaps she perceived her thoughts (which she probably didn't share with you) as "selfish."  And later on, when it got worse, she projected that "selfishness" onto you.  She wasn't selfish, you were.  Better to paint you "black" than herself.

My exBPDgf described herself as a "chameleon."  I had no idea what she was talking about at the time.  It made sense later.

Also, once while riding with her in her car, I was rummaging around in the messy console she kept and found a small snapshot of myself that I had sent her a couple of years before. I asked her why she had been keeping it there and she said she didn't know, but she like looking at it at times just to remember that I was still "with" her (fear of abandonment issues, big time).

This instance describes an even more specific quality of people with BPD (pwBPD).  PwBPD lack "object constancy."  And this instance is a great example of the "lack of object constancy."  In brief, the lack of object constancy is like the inability to retain your emotional attachment with someone when they are not immediately interacting with you.  You cannot keep "constant" (in your mind) the emotional "memory" of your "object" (i.e. your loved one).

This is why when were are not around, it is easy for pwBPD to become overwhelmed by the fear that they will be abandoned: they cannot recall the degree of their emotional attachment when away from their loved one.

It is almost literally like "out of sight is out of mind."

One time when I checked on her, I caught her half dressed just staring at herself in the mirror. When she saw that I'd caught her staring at herself, she went ballistic. I wasn't doing anything creepy or anything, just concerned as to what was taking her so long. It was if I'd invaded so sort of weird private mental prep time or something.

I wonder if this is an instance of "identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self."  She was perhaps staring at herself to objectively convince herself that she is an attractive woman?  If she were not sufficiently attractive then you might have cause to abandon her?

This kind of insecurity/instability might explain why it is important for her to convince everyone else that she is happy, attractive, successful, etc... because it is so hard for her to believe it herself... .if she can convince other people, this is as good as it gets... .for her.

Finally, when we first were going out, she called me once and started to tell me that if she died in her apartment that likely nobody would know for days and that made her distraught.

Would it have made more sense if she said that she was afraid that if she died, then nobody would know who she ever was?  She herself probably does not know who she is... .only who she's supposed to be... .at that moment.

I don't really know how to communicate what it must be like to not know who you are.  I have inklings of what it might feel like... .like some awful teenage angst plus the emotional temperament to boot... .x 1000.  It cannot be any fun.

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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 06:48:59 AM »

Schwing,

Okay, this is helping me a lot. I'll throw out a couple of more anomalies:

When I was first getting to know her, she talked about how she'd been a high school cheerleader. And that the day they named her as one of the five cheerleaders was the best day of her life. I asked her why it felt that way and she said, "I literally went from being a nobody to a somebody. Before that nobody knew I even existed."

When I'd talk to her about our relationship she'd say, "... .I do love you. Just not the way you want me to love you." This was so confusing, because we'd do tons of stuff together and have a blast, then when it became time to intimate later, she'd very often say, "I really don't want that with you." Then the next week or two, I'd catch her cheating on me, where I'd find out that she went out with another guy, had apparently a great day out on the town (similar to what we might have had) then retreated to his place and had "wonderful" sex. F course, once we were back together and I'd try to work through understanding this behavior, she'd often say, "Well, that person is different than you. I like him in a different way than I like you." But then she may or may not ever se that person again. After a while, as you can imagine, I was ready to throw in the towel, and she'd say, "You can't leave me. If you do you'll be like all the others." And that would be the hook for another round of this. In this same vein during another period that I had trouble understand, she said, "We have everything a couple has in a relationship accept the sex (very rarely, if ever did we have sex) and I don't want that (sex) with you." My retort to that was, "Why is that." to which she'd say, "Because that's not what I want with you."

As you can likely decern, I was so confuse. She'd say, "We're not boyfriend/girlfriend. I don't want people to think we're together." But then it didn't matter to her, if I heard through the grapevine that she'd been seen with someone else. She'd just say, "... .I told you we aren't a couple. I can date whoever I want." Then as  said, if I tried to leave there was tons of drama, guilt trips, and historonics.

Then lastly, when she said she was in a very serius committed relationship with this knew wonderful guy (the guy she ended up marrying) after only three weeks, I said I was done. She begged me to stay. I pointed out the numerous huge flaws in what we had and how my needs likely at her own insistance would never be met. She try to decribe to me in the most bizzare fashion, this new guy would fulfill xxx part of her, here, taking her two hands as if to demonstrate one pile to her left and then another pile (meaning me) to the right. My response was like, "huh?" And sill is. Any insights on this? I'm still confused about hat logic.

Sorry everybody for the long post. I've read a lot about BPD, but some of these old things still linger for me to try and sort through and understand what I was experiencing at the time.
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 03:03:11 PM »

When I was first getting to know her, she talked about how she'd been a high school cheerleader. And that the day they named her as one of the five cheerleaders was the best day of her life. I asked her why it felt that way and she said, "I literally went from being a nobody to a somebody. Before that nobody knew I even existed."

My understanding is that for some people with BPD (pwBPD) their primary abandonment/betrayal/denigration trauma occurs sometime during the formative stage of their emotional/personality development.  This mental development becomes arrested and so disordered people lack certain qualities that non-disordered people take for granted. 

For example, identity.  In spite of your difficult time with your BPD loved one, this experience did not make you question who you are.  Actually - perhaps this is a bad example.  Consider your other non-BPD relationships: when these relationships ended you did not suddenly become someone different.  There was a progression from who you were before the relationships, to who you were after the relationships.  And most people can see that who we are today evolved from who we were starting in adolescence -- and we see how our experiences between that time shaped us.

Not so for some people with BPD.  My understanding is that for pwBPD, who they are, is highly dependent upon whom they are currently attached.  When they switch between partners, they are in a sense switching between identities. And depending upon their partners, their identity can become drastically different.

What your BPD loved one said about "nobody knew I even existed" can be interpreted as adolescent angst and exaggeration.  But for some pwBPD, it could describe how they literally feel -- without attention and attachment to other people, pwBPD can feel as if they do not exist ("feelings of chronic emptiness".  And I argue that they can feel this way because of their arrested emotional development (due to their disorder).

When I'd talk to her about our relationship she'd say, "... .I do love you. Just not the way you want me to love you." This was so confusing, because we'd do tons of stuff together and have a blast, then when it became time to intimate later, she'd very often say, "I really don't want that with you."

Another difference between pwBPD and non-disordered people might be the way we form attachments.  As you spent more time with her, your attachment started forming and increasing.  But for pwBPD, my understanding is that as their attachment begins to develop, the attachment can become a trigger for their disordered feelings (perhaps associated with their primary trauma).

Then the next week or two, I'd catch her cheating on me, where I'd find out that she went out with another guy, had apparently a great day out on the town (similar to what we might have had) then retreated to his place and had "wonderful" sex.

As they experience their disordered feelings (i.e. fear of abandonment/betrayal/denigration), they impulsively act on them.  And in order to avoid this imagined abandonment, they abandon first.  So after you two became too close for her, she felt that she had to abandon you first. And she got together with another person -- in a sense, became another person, and thus avoided her disordered feelings (as opposed to finding constructive ways to deal with them). Once those disordered feelings subsided, she returns to you.  So from my perspective, she could have "recycled" you without you even being aware of it.

F course, once we were back together and I'd try to work through understanding this behavior, she'd often say, "Well, that person is different than you. I like him in a different way than I like you." But then she may or may not ever se that person again.

Honestly I don't think most people with BPD look too deeply into why they do what they do. In a sense their whole modus operandi is "to avoid."  And maybe they might understand that there is a pattern to when they might do what they do. But "why" is a very loaded question for them.

What she told you is nonsense, right?  "I'm with someone else because I like different things about them than I like about you."  Well using this "logic" she'd had justification for being with anyone and everyone.  And this is more or less what she wanted: she wanted the license to be with whomever and whenever she wants/needs and she could not tell you with any certainty when or why.

After a while, as you can imagine, I was ready to throw in the towel, and she'd say, "You can't leave me. If you do you'll be like all the others." And that would be the hook for another round of this. In this same vein during another period that I had trouble understand, she said, "We have everything a couple has in a relationship accept the sex (very rarely, if ever did we have sex) and I don't want that (sex) with you." My retort to that was, "Why is that." to which she'd say, "Because that's not what I want with you."

So when you were ready to throw in the towel, abandonment became no longer imagined but real. And in order to avoid "real" abandonment she either had to have someone else waiting for her or else she had to seduce you back.

She probably avoided having sex with you because that would only increase the degree of her attachment with you and make her disordered feelings worse.

As you can likely decern, I was so confuse. She'd say, "We're not boyfriend/girlfriend. I don't want people to think we're together." But then it didn't matter to her, if I heard through the grapevine that she'd been seen with someone else. She'd just say, "... .I told you we aren't a couple. I can date whoever I want." Then as  said, if I tried to leave there was tons of drama, guilt trips, and historonics.

I don't think she was trying to confuse you.  I think she was confused herself.  As if not being "official boyfriend/girlfriend" would reduce her attachment to you and reduce the degree of disordered feelings she was experiencing with you. 

She try to decribe to me in the most bizzare fashion, this new guy would fulfill xxx part of her, here, taking her two hands as if to demonstrate one pile to her left and then another pile (meaning me) to the right. My response was like, "huh?" And sill is. Any insights on this? I'm still confused about hat logic.

I think that if you were to talk to her now (if she did not know who you are) you would not recognize her.  She is in a more or less stable relationship with this new guy.  But for all you know this new guy could be posting here anonymously about his wife.

What occasions make you think about her now, after all these years?  Sure it will be nice to understand all the confusing aspects of her behavior. But is something going on in your life now that is resonating with that past?
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 09:38:49 PM »

Hi Schwing,

I tend to think of her most during the holidays and new year period, from time to time. Not every year, but if I'm going to reminisce it's likely this time of year.

She was the first person I ever really fell in love with. Understanding BPD and my part in this dance, she mirrored and fulfilled a lot of the psychological things I was missing early in the relationship and like everyone else it was a strong and powerful feeling to have been met, even it was just for a short time. In the long view, I know that that was just part of the BPD pattern and through work on myself I also realize that the person I idealized in my mind was not then nor is now the person that she is. So, it's likely true to me as well, from help you've given me here, that she is also likely not the person she portrays herself to be to the public and on social media. So, all of it in my mind and with her portrayal is really just an illusion, and not likely real. So, why do I still have this issue or fantasy? The most honest answer I can give you is, that if I let even the hurting part of me that holds on dearly to the fantasy go, then I not only will have a lot of work to do that will be hard and likely painful, but I'll have to admit that the fantasy was just that, too. It's easier to live with the little bit of pain she still causes me, to hang onto the belief and knowledge to know that even as wrong as it was and messy the relationship was, that it felt good and part of that feeling good was that I was at least for a little while admired, "loved", and in love. Hopefully, that makes sense. I know it's pathetic, but I never have loved anyone like I loved her, nor felt love from someone like I felt while she was mirroring me. Because that felt so wonderful, letting it go would be like committing myself to the acknowledgment that a part of myself is dead forever. An analogy would be like having a dead appendage (e.g. an arm), letting it hang there dead and lifeless as part of a reminder of when I was whole, without much sacrifice and nuisance, just so, that I didn't have to admit I have to admit or think of myself as being less than whole, by having the appendage removed. For once it's removed, there's no denying to yourself that you'll never have that appendage again.

This women doesn't get in the way of my life really any longer. My ideations about her don't really cloud my current relationships. I enjoy my current life immensely and I've gone on to really do better things through much of my work on myself after our separation. I feel good about who I am and where my life is going to go. Plus, I know rationally that she and I couldn't have been made to coexist long term. It just wasn't going to work. She was too screwed up and by being involved with her, I too became mentally screwy too, but it spurred me to address deeply many of my own issues. But as I said before, holding on to this one bit of fantasy and not real real experiences I shared with her, it makes a part of me satisfied that I too had an unreal lovely romantic time. The kind of time, you see in movies and read in books. How many people get to experience that? To me that's why most people seem to be here too, right? The unreal experience touched something they'd never had before, sometimes to an extent so, dramatic that the craving for more of this "drug" is as deep as an addictions. And a lot of folks here seem to be reconciling why they'd ever want more, but yet they still do. That's the paradox and conundrum of being involved with a BPD.

What I was looking for here, and what you've help me with was answers to specific weirdness that I experienced from her. Things that seemed very out of place. Aiding me to put more pieces of the puzzle together. Though deep down you might say, "... .but you already knew the answer, nothing was to make sense due to her BPD. Move on." But by getting answers, I store the information and assess and see other illogical things and map those things against what I've learned as a means of identifying and seeing crazy making behavior in the real world. Something I was totally blind to and inexperienced about when I was younger. Hence, my stepping into something like this with this BPD'd person. At least now, my "radar" and "identification skills" are much more astute.

Lastly, I'm certain she's not the same person I knew. And you're right, she likely would seem very foreign to me and visa versa. Again, analogy: When I think back, all of the guys she was involved with, including me, were like a woman trying to define herself via a wardrobe. Each of us represented articles she'd adopt and try on. If she like certain portions of our individually unique characteristics, she'd keep what she liked and throw the rest away (leave it on the rack). Then move on, trying one thing on after another. When she landed on Mr. Wonderful, the wardrobe could then be completed and she was ready to step out on the town to show it all off. He met her need to have someone hanging on her arm (a date) to complete the fantasy of being someone unique and whole. He completed her fantasy picture she had for herself in her head. Kids, model home, exotic vacations, all are apart of telling to the public (and herself) her story (identity), which makes her feel whole (or at least appear to be whole). This is why years ago, she couldn't commit to me. She was on a quest. She mirrored  to get close to me, learned from me, acquired the traits of me she wanted to assume and then moved on. All of the individuals she was involved with are portion of who she is. There's no true authentic self there, really. How do I know this? She explained it all to me over time. In our relationship I asked her a lot of questions. A lot of the questions I asked had to do with her personality, which I found attractive. She would claim that she had gotten a lot of her knowledge, and personality from the men she'd dated previously. When I asked her about her attraction to Mr. Wonderful, she said, "He completes me. He's like a combination of all of the best parts of the rest of you all (men she'd dated previously) (e.g. "wardrobe complete".
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schwing
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 01:48:00 PM »

So, why do I still have this issue or fantasy? The most honest answer I can give you is, that if I let even the hurting part of me that holds on dearly to the fantasy go, then I not only will have a lot of work to do that will be hard and likely painful, but I'll have to admit that the fantasy was just that, too. It's easier to live with the little bit of pain she still causes me, to hang onto the belief and knowledge to know that even as wrong as it was and messy the relationship was, that it felt good and part of that feeling good was that I was at least for a little while admired, "loved", and in love.

Very honest. And a choice I can understand.

In my experience, I found that I had to let go of the familiar pain (and eventually do the work) in order to move past making (or being drawn to make) the same mistakes that led to that pain in the first place.  That is, I found myself continuing to be attracted to and drawn towards (I assume) people who presented the same attributes as my exBPDgf.  Right now my goal is compassionate and neutral feelings.

... .I never have loved anyone like I loved her, nor felt love from someone like I felt while she was mirroring me. Because that felt so wonderful, letting it go would be like committing myself to the acknowledgment that a part of myself is dead forever. An analogy would be like having a dead appendage (e.g. an arm), letting it hang there dead and lifeless as part of a reminder of when I was whole, without much sacrifice and nuisance, just so, that I didn't have to admit I have to admit or think of myself as being less than whole, by having the appendage removed. For once it's removed, there's no denying to yourself that you'll never have that appendage again.

Here is food for thought: learning how to be vulnerable and allowing someone to love you that deeply (and also choosing to love someone in such a manner) can be a conscious choice.  Because that part of you is not dead but dormant.  And if you do not learn how to reach it, someone else (like your ex) might at a time when it is least convenient.

As I see it, you felt great love towards her while she was mirroring you.  That is, you were able to love and appreciate your own qualities (when reflected back to you) through her... .but are you able to love and appreciate these very same qualities in yourself?  And what would that look like?

I don't believe love should only be sought from with-out; I think a large part of it should be sought with-in.  Otherwise we might find ourselves "collecting" people in the same way that your ex does.  Collecting other people's love and still feel ourselves not getting what we need.



But as I said before, holding on to this one bit of fantasy and not real real experiences I shared with her, it makes a part of me satisfied that I too had an unreal lovely romantic time. The kind of time, you see in movies and read in books. How many people get to experience that? To me that's why most people seem to be here too, right? The unreal experience touched something they'd never had before, sometimes to an extent so, dramatic that the craving for more of this "drug" is as deep as an addictions. And a lot of folks here seem to be reconciling why they'd ever want more, but yet they still do. That's the paradox and conundrum of being involved with a BPD.

Well, I would argue that the kind of love you see in movies and read in books is only a simulacrum of the genuine article. Then again, the ancient Greeks describe love having five different kinds... .perhaps there are more kinds of love than that?

In any case, whatever it is you need, don't deny yourself for so long that you become willing to purchase a poor substitute for it.

Again, analogy: When I think back, all of the guys she was involved with, including me, were like a woman trying to define herself via a wardrobe. Each of us represented articles she'd adopt and try on. If she like certain portions of our individually unique characteristics, she'd keep what she liked and throw the rest away (leave it on the rack). Then move on, trying one thing on after another.
... .All of the individuals she was involved with are portion of who she is. There's no true authentic self there, really. How do I know this? She explained it all to me over time. In our relationship I asked her a lot of questions. A lot of the questions I asked had to do with her personality, which I found attractive. She would claim that she had gotten a lot of her knowledge, and personality from the men she'd dated previously. When I asked her about her attraction to Mr. Wonderful, she said, "He completes me. He's like a combination of all of the best parts of the rest of you all (men she'd dated previously) (e.g. "wardrobe complete".

That sounds like quite a quest. And once the quest is completed, what happens if she doesn't feel "completed"?  All the different outfits were used to cover up what was inside of herself -- what is inside her is still there.  She is very good at hiding it from others, can she continue to hide it from herself?
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 03:34:16 PM »

Schwing,

Thanks for all of your guidance in the last several posts. That's why I came here, to help unravel things in my mind that still are not clear. As I said, I've been on a good path for many years, but at times there are lingering issues. You've helped me immensely in thinking about some of my past, my past BPDgf's behaviors, and more than anything thought patterns, as well as my own issues yet to resolve. Very inspired, again.
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