He knew.

[GirlWithCurl]

Dad always let mother abuse us and he didn't intervene on our behalf.  In fact,  he would join in from time to time.  Having both of them gang up on me when I was a child felt like having someone rip off an arm and delight in devouring it.  Recently, she has upped her rages and directed them at him.  It must be really, really bad because he has taken to emailing me and my sister to call and help mother... .be there for her because he thinks she is lonely and depressed.  It triggered me strongly to come to the rescue but I did catch myself before I harmed myself running into rescue.  What he meant with his pleas to us is rescue him from her.  He was enraged in a way I have never seen before.  He even sobbed to me.  He told me things about her and the grandparents that I have never heard before.  Grandpa on her side actually killed two men in the deep south when certain types of killing were ok within certain groups.  Murderers.  He told me things I didn't know he realized such as, and I am going to paraphrase slightly here, I don't know how your mother could pick a favorite child over another.  I could never do that.  Then he imitated her by saying oh my beautiful son is this and that and so wonderful and she doesn't even enjoy her two daughters.  Somehow he knew that was wrong but made the conscious decision not to do anything good.  He chose his own peace and quiet and sacrificed his kids to get it.  I was wondering if anyone other than me saw her favoritism in her children.  Well, I got my answer.  He saw it.  He did nothing.  He didn't step into fill any gaps for me and my sisters.  Lazy.  Know what I see with these people sometimes?  I see their narcissism rendering them stupid.  He was so upset with her that he told the ugly truth about himself.  Just wanted to throw that out there.  Wonder if anyone else has a story about when they slip and let their sinfulness into the light.

[Kwamina]

Hi GirlWithCurl

That must have been very tough for you as a child, having both your parents gang op on you like that. It is very sad what can take place when parents are disordered.

I can definitely understand why receiving the e-mails and calls from your dad would trigger you so, given what you've been through with them. It is good though that you are now able to see the dynamics at play here. Some elements of what you describe remind me of the so-called Karpman Drama Triangle:

The drama triangle was originally conceived (1968-1972) by Karpman as a way of graphically displaying the complex interaction that occurs between people embroiled in pathological conflict.
... .
Karpman observed that in conflict and drama, there is "good guy vs bad guy" thinking. He also observed that the participants become drawn in, even seduced, by the energy that the drama generates. The drama obscures the real issues. Confusion and upset escalates. Solutions are no longer the focus.
Karpman defined three roles in the "transaction"; Persecutor, Rescuer (the one up positions) and Victim (one down position). Karpman placed these three roles on an inverted triangle and described them as being the three aspects, or faces of drama.
... .
Karpman's triangle is a simple tool for conceptualizing the dynamics of dysfunctional roles in conflict and for mapping the role changes as the conflict grows.

Were you already familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle and do you feel like it applies to some of the dynamics within your family?

There's also a so-called Caring Triangle / Winning Triangle that helps us stay out of Karpman Drama Dynamics:

In 1990, Acey Choy M.Ed., PTSTA, introduced the Winning Triangle in the Transactional Analysis Journal as the antithesis of the Karpman Triangle. Her work has been heralded by Dr. Karpman as "excellent". Choy contrasts the unhealthy dynamics of each role of the Karpman triangle with healthy dynamics:
- Assert rather than persecute
- Be vulnerable, but not a victim
- Be caring, but don't overstep (rescue)

You can read more here: Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

Many of our members have come to similar realizations as you about the 'other' parent. Your mother was abusive, but your dad clearly played a role in this all too and was way more aware of your mother's dyfunction than he might have led on. Those revalations about your family's past are also quite shocking and I can imagine only added to your sense of getting triggered.

I lived alone with my uBPD mother for many years and I sometimes wondered if my way older siblings were (still) aware of just how dysfunctional my mother was. Well a few years ago after a joint BPD rage from my uBPD mom and sis, I found out that both my sisters were still very much aware of my mother's dysfunction yet looked the other way after they moved out of the house. Realizing this angered me too because not only did they look the other way, although they are much older than me, they often tried to 'dump' their emotional baggage on me (assuming a victim role) all the while fully aware that I was still dealing with our uBPD mother. This has caused me to look at my siblings differently and I have set certain boundaries with them too now. So yeah, I think people will be able to relate to you here.

Welcome to  bpdfamily

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi there,

I am currently working on reprocessing early ages within my T.  This week was a bit much for me tbh.  Am doing ages 0-3 atm.  Therapy was on Tuesday but it seems days after stuff pops up for me.  Anyway, I do recall potty training.  I recall getting terrified by Her and another one in Her family.  I recall them claiming some darn victory over this and so proud to terrify the snot outta a toddler till she sorted out what she was supposed to do. (Meaning me, srry)

I just know with training and raising my own kid, the victories I celebrated were never about dominating over him, but were about him achieving something or such.

I was recalling a couple of folks in that family that "were in on it" and who was good and who was bad and why the heck was there this one lady, an aunt type, who was actually nice and never would hit anyone, but how could she go on about herself and I found out she KNEW!  So my mind did bends to grasp how good people could be ok allowing bad stuff to happen.

So here I am 2 or 3 and I saw she was a good person, but then how could she pretend like what was happening to me was ok stuff for me but not her own young girl my age?

Anyways, just sharing cause I relate to others being in on abusive stuff even if they are occassionally, or in some indirect way communicating with their behavior, that I am less than them or deserve less than what their own precious kid deserves.

Logically, I can see how the Karpman triangle stuff is great and works, when I am not feeling stuck in this state of feeling.
Emotionally I am feeling trapped by some thoughts and feeling I am going to have to work with my T to sort it out cause I cannot at the moment take the leap to combine my logical thinking and integrate it with the emotional side.
(I don't usually get trapped in these thoughts, but not sure why I am after last session, so that pretty much sucks)

[Notwendy]

My father knew too, but he wouldn't fully acknowledge it. He also both loved me but would sell out his relationship with me to rescue her in the moment. For me, the drama triangle model explained this behavior. They had their marital issues but they were most strongly bonded when united against a common "persecutor". Basically, if I didn't walk on eggshells or comply with my mother ( and sometimes even if I did do all that) I would "upset her". She would go into victim mode. That's her preferred position. My father would step in to rescue her, then the two of them would be angry at me.

I think having a golden child and a scapegoat child is common. I was the scapegoat child, a sibling was the golden child. I think the golden child is actually the more susceptible to being enmeshed with the BPD parent. The GC probably got more of the "good stuff" from the parent and so feels a loss by standing up to them. There wasn't much good feeling between me and my mother. However, I was very bonded to my father. My mother knew this, and so would use it as collateral. My father would sell it out to her for her good favor.

I wanted to rescue my father, but being unaware of the drama triangle, my attempts to help him in his elder years became fuel for this dysfunction. As he aged and got sick, he was unable to do all the things he usually did for her. She was angry at the loss of the difference in their roles. Although they had denied the emotional abuse she did to her children, I realized it really happened when I saw her do it to him. So, I naively stepped in to rescue him by confronting her. She snapped into victim mode, my father "rescued" her with raging and anger at me.

Yes, it is an ugly truth to see the part our "normal" parent played when it came to the dysfunction. Horrible to learn a grandparent was a racist, but also you know that one terrible person in the family doesn't make the whole family that way. One thing that helped me come to terms with the role of the "normal" parent was understanding co-dependency- and dealing with my own co-dependent tendencies. My parents are not bad people. They matched in this dysfunction- which is in a sense an addiction. Just like an alcoholic is powerless over his/her drinking, I think my father had as strong an addiction to his relationship with my mother.

[GirlWithCurl]

Ever since my dad asked me and my sister to step in and "entertain" mother I have done so.  I call everyday to check on her/them because he asked me to.  I find funny bits and pieces in the news or the world at large to distract her with.  I let her go on and on about how rotten dad is to her.  I let her gossip which is a sin.  I let her divide which is something God HATES.  I might not have always known that gossip was so very sinful but now that I do it would be sinful of me to ignore His way and listen to it.  It is my relationship with God that is the most important thing and not my relationship with my parents. I won't do it anymore because listening to gossip is a sin.  I was rescuing when that really isn't something that can be done by me.  I don't believe my mom and dad are BPD's.  I do believe BPD is a mental illness and should be treated as such.  I believe both of my parents are narcissists and that cannot be treated by humans.  Only our Lord can do that.  This week I found solace in the Bible and the answer to how I am going to go about protecting myself and doing what God wants.  I read in the Bible that He says stay away from evil.  He doesn't say unless they are your parents.  It also says to honor your parents.  There are numerous ways of honoring the parent without being in their lives.  One, I can go on and try to be healthy and happy.  That should be honor enough.  But, the greatest honor I can give to their position is stop enabling them.  The way I see it the most important thing now is that they get saved.  That won't happen when they are caught up in their anger.  Anger blinds.  They seem to be happy with occasionally spewing their venom at us.  It is their way of handling their pain I guess.  Thing is, it doesn't work.  It destroyed one of their children and impaired the rest of us.  It is impairing my parents now and blinding them to the love and wisdom of our Lord.  They are so angry they can't find Him.  I have turned it over to God and will run everything past Him before responding to them.  I realize that my words are wise but I could get sucked back in.  I cannot get sucked back in.  I have to get out of God's way and let Him work on them if He so chooses.  He may not given that they are narcissists.  He might though and all things are possible through Him.  I can't tell you the relief it is not to feel responsible for them in the old way.  I am so glad that God will take this burden.  When I think about it I sort of chuckle that I thought little old me could handle it.  

Anyway, their games have begun.  After being given the silent treatment from them, which was wonderful, dad emailed me yesterday.  He wrote only this... .I sent a pigeon for you which is His way of saying ET (enmeshed twit) phone home.  I decided to grant myself 24 hours to think about how to respond.  Yes, I did respond because if I didn't it would feel passive aggressive.  They are already angry enough and if I ignored it completely it would just add fuel to their noxious fire that has simmered and flared for 80 years.  The angrier they stay the farther from seeing God's way they will be; therefore, it was with careful consideration for all concerned that I wrote back this morning... .What's up?  Minutes later my phone rang.  I let it go to voice mail because I think I will always take at least 24 hours to mull over any future, land-mine filled correspondence.  They didn't leave a message and I am glad.  They need to sit there and simmer in their own juices without any narcissistic supply.  Maybe then they will hit a personal rock bottom and look outside themselves and hopefully to God for wisdom and healing.  Or not.

[Panda39]

Hi GirlWithCurl,

I just wanted to say that I think you are doing a couple of really good things. 

 Letting go of trying to rescue and fix your parents and giving that up to God.  Making their life and relationships better is not your job to fix, it is theirs through God or on their own, but not your job.  Letting that go seems to be a very healthy thing for you to do.

I also love your wait 24hours to respond to messages if you decide to respond.  That slows everything down and allows you to mindfully process the message, what is going on behind the message, process your emotions related to the message, decide if the message deserves a response, if so to think about your response.

Panda39

[Sunfl0wer]

I also love your wait 24hours to respond to messages if you decide to respond.  That slows everything down and allows you to mindfully process the message, what is going on behind the message, process your emotions related to the message, decide if the message deserves a response, if so to think about your response.

Just agree here with Panda and wanted to add another good reason to wait 24 hrs for contact.  Often pwPD are reaching out in a "state of in the moment emotional crisis." Allowing time beofre you respond may allow the other person to get out of the frame of mond they were in when reaching out, which is often from a place of a specific trigger.  Allowing some time to pass to remove you from being an immediate target for soothing themselves by provoking immediate interaction.

Not sure I phrased that well, but what I mean, is my sis would reach out in a moment of panic, so if I responded fast, I would get a panick ridden person.  If I waited, she had to look elsewhere to soothe that immediate panick.  So, not to say she would not dysregulate if I wait to contact her, but sometimes it was a bit less heightened, a bit more reasonable... .sometimes.

[GirlWithCurl]

I hadn't thought about how a 24-hour hold (Ha!) might protect them from themselves.  You are right.  They are in a panic right now and any response I get will be panic based.  Ewwww.  Something happened when I saw my dad's responsibility in this.  I can't say why but everything changed for me, for the better, when I did.  I am definitely trying to investigate the connection between acknowledging his role in all of this and why until I saw it could I not just say that's it.  I don't feel this debilitating sorrow for you anymore.  I don't feel guilt.  I am not guilt.  They are.