Best way to reconnect with her

[DeeplyLovingHer]

I feel the original post about this issue was probably too long and confused.

So I'll keep this question shorter, to address an issue that could help others as well.

So me and my ex GF (probably pwBPD) split up 4 months ago for the 3rd time.

How to reconnect with her after she split on me because I was late at our meeting (there are other reasons why she did that), 4 months of NC, blocked on WA and INSTA, and a new boyfriend?

We were talking to go live together and get married just a few days before, so it makes sense that I don't want to give up.

But of course I don't want to push her or harass her, so I'm asking for your advice on what to do.

I didn't text her for like 4 months, until I finally reached out again with a bouquet of flowers and a love letter (simple and a bit funny), but I just got her new bf texting me he will go to the cops if I text her again.

Would you:
1) Do nothing. Just wait and maybe she will change her mind (I'm afraid she won't)
2) Send her an email asking why she reacted like that, how she feels and if we can talk about it
3) Send her another long email this time address all the relationship issues we had, apologizing, telling her I do understand and I take responsabilitly, telling her how much I love her, and committing myself with her for a serious future together)
4) Wait a bit and send her a random email saying something totally unrelated to just restart the conversation (this is exactly what she does when she was reconnecting with me the previous times)
5) Any other idea would be appreciated. Thank you

I'm desperate and I don't want to mess up again!

Pls help me guys

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[Skip]

I feel the original post about this issue was probably too long and confused.

So I'll keep this question shorter, to address an issue that could help others as well.

Good idea  .  I went back and read your original for background. It helped.

How to contact her is a tough one. You have been advised twice, by third parties that she feels contacting her is harassment and that she is considering contacting the police. That's a hard "stop". Contacting her again will just raise the wall of resistance higher.

The hard part to see is that after you two split, you had entirely different 120 day experiences. Your experience ended up having you reconsider the idea of reconnecting. Her 120 day experience did not land at that the same place at day 120. She may have been sitting by her phone for a month waiting to hear from you and then mourned the relationship. People with BPD traits take rejection hard. At the same time, she may have done some dating like you did. but happened on someone that she kinda likes.

That's why the flowers got such a negative reaction. For example, if the flowers showed up at the workplace, everyone would be pressing her on who sent them and why. Co-workers often make a fuss when flowers show up and ask questions. The new boyfriend may have seen them and is questioning her.

That said, number 2, 3 and 5 aren't likely to work now.

Most relationships fail in 90 days, so if she is in one, it may fail soon. Waiting could work. However, if she took the end hard and is resentful, she may be done. Hard to say.

Never say never. I read here about people showing back up a year later. I rekindled a relationship 4 years after a breakup myself.

Do you know anyone that you trust that has some insight into her world?

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi my friend and thank you so much for taking the time to write these words.

It helps a lot.

In this situation, I have nobody to talk with as my friends don't understand what I'm going through and just kinda look at me wondering if I'm crazy cuz I want her back.

So this forum helped tremendously last time and after a while she texted me back again.

This time might be much worse honestly that's why I'm worrying a lot and I would do something.

The waiting is killing me.

You are right, I should have probably insisted more in the beginning, but I was also wounded by her hard treatment which has gone really harsh on me this time and ended up setting me up for failure and discarding me after I made so much effort to see her. I apologized many times, I was trying to resonate with her but it didn't work to stop the blaming on me.

I then started working on myself really hard to fix these things I was carry on my shoulder for such long time and that were destroying my life and our relationship. Then I was feeling very bad for the rest of the time and I reached out as soon as I could. It wasn't easy for me to step back again and take this action after I did already so many apologies and never got one from her side. But I really want to make this work. I know we can succeed if we want to, and I love her very much.

The (funny) thing is that she is now with this guy who is much younger than me and has absolutely nothing she was looking for, except he is an old friend and they live close, so he is much more present than me and this is a good point for him. But besides that, I don't think they have much in common honestly, as she always categorically told me she feels nothing more than a friendship for him. He was sticking around trying to be with her for a long time, and I knew it but never said anything because I trusted her. Maybe she changed her mind or she just felt alone and wanted someone closer to take care of her. Idk honestly but I feel this could be a real threat cuz it's not just a random guy. I think they started dating recently.

So just a simple email asking "How are you, can we talk please?" it's a bad idea?

I spent like 3 days putting together some very beautiful things I want to tell her...

[DeeplyLovingHer]

For your information, last time was pretty harsh as well (slightly less honestly), but she also threatened to call the cops if I would ever text her again and she started dating an ex bf of her. After a month or two she texted me and we restarted talking like nothing ever happened. She is much younger than me, so I guess it's also understandable that she might get disappointed with her only serious bf and want to test other options (she never had another long lasting relationship like ours), before settling with someone for good.

[Caleb91]

I'm in a very similar position, and invested in seeing how your breakup and possible reconnection plays out. 

In my case we've been broken up for just shy of 2 years and I've been blocked on everything except email. 

Like you, our history of push/pull and mixed signals have made this breakup hard to accept as permanent. During the relationship we had multiple breakups where she said that she'd never speak to me again, and in the second to last breakup told me "never contact me again" only to unblock a couple of weeks later and say that she wanted me to fight for her. So while this is a different ballgame, two years into being iced out, it's hard to accept and believe that this is forever. Every individual is unique, but there are far more stories on this board and elsewhere that say something to the effect of "it's never really over until the Non finally shuts the door" and "they always come back, even years later" than there are stories of pwBPD being done forever.

I'm interested in what other wiser and more experienced people on this board tell you, but here's my blind leading the blind advice:

4 months doesn't seem like much time and hardly indicates to me that this is permanent, and that your cycles won't continue. If I still believe I have a shot at 2 years, I definitely think you have a shot at 4 months.

None of your courses of action sound like a good idea to me. Having her current bf threaten to call the cops is very extreme. At worst you can get the cops called and at the minimum I think you reaching out will be fodder for her to talk about her "psycho ex" and bond with her current bf more. Some of the stuff I've read about triangulation is interesting.

My advice, again blind leading the blind, would be to do nothing, wait for this relationship she's in to fizzle (or go down in flames) which it almost certainly will, at which point you may hear from her.

Or take your approach #4 and reach out with something lowkey and random, but much further in the future, when you're more confident that she's not dating somebody and when emotions have cooled off and she may see you in a better light. 

I'm rooting for both of us and very curious to see how your story unfolds. 

[Skip]

None of your courses of action sound like a good idea to me. Having her current bf threaten to call the cops is very extreme. At worst you can get the cops called and at the minimum I think you reaching out will be fodder for her to talk about her "psycho ex" and bond with her current bf more. Some of the stuff I've read about triangulation is interesting.

Well said, Caleb91. I'd underscore this by saying, even if you send her a gold bar, her first reaction is going to be that you don't respect her and this is all about what "DeeplyLovingHer" wants - not what she wants.

4 months doesn't seem like much time and hardly indicates to me that this is permanent, and that your cycles won't continue. If I still believe I have a shot at 2 years, I definitely think you have a shot at 4 months.

Four months and BF is too long for flowers and poetry, but as Caleb91 says, it doesn't mean game over. It does mean that you be best advised to play the long game (not the short).

I spent like 3 days putting together some very beautiful things I want to tell her...

I'd set it aside and revisit in the future to refine it so you have it when the time is right. When she has expressed interest...

There are three elements of romantic gestures... the gesture, the place, and time. You have to get all these right. It's one thing to send unexpected flowers on an anniversary to the workplace - quite another to send them after an infidelity. Same flowers - very different reception.

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi everyone and thanks for your advice.

I just went through our last conversation.
We were supposed to meet and she told me not to go, then she blocked me on WA and I reached out via email.
We had an exchange of like 20 emails, where I was saying I was going to see her, no matter what.

And she replied not to go like 10 times, threatening twice to call the cops, but in the end, we met each other and had dinner together. She was really mad at me and at the end left my car while we were still talking. I never seen her again since then.

This time it's different tho, as it was her bf saying this so I don't know how the threat could be seen. Sometimes honestly I'm also thinking that it's kinda crazy I can't defend myself against all this emotional damage I've gone through.

Can you please take this info into account and advise me once again regarding sending a simple email with a text like this:

"Hey X, how are you doing?
I hope I'm not bothering you, but I can't stop thinking about what happened last time. I'm still holding onto hope for us because you mean the world to me. I'm really sorry about our argument and I've tried to apologize in every way I can. I take full responsibility for any pain I may have caused you.

I've spent the last four months grieving in silence, waiting for you to reach out. During this time, I've been working on myself, focusing on my health, and addressing the root causes of our disagreements.

I've had time to reflect on us, and there's something important I want to share with you that I think you'll be happy to hear. If you decide you don't want to see me after this, I'll accept it and move on. But please, let's talk like the mature adults we are, who shared so much love for a long time.

We had great plans and dreams for the future, and I really want to make them happen. Even if we've broken up, I think we deserve a decent conversation to make things right. I want to listen and understand how you feel. I care about you deeply, I still love you with all my heart, and it hurts every day not having you in my life.

I'm not trying to rush you or put any pressure on you, but I hope we can make this happen. I just want to do something nice and kind for you. Whenever you're ready, I promise you won't regret it. I miss you and I love you!"

An alternative version, the other way around very much lowkey, could be like this:

Hey X, how are you doing? I'm heading to City X for work next week (which isn't far from where she lives). On my way back, I'd love to stop by your town and have lunch with you. I've booked a place for us on this day at this time. I've had some time to think about us, and there's something important I want to share with you that I believe will make you happy. If you decide you don't want to see me after this, I'll respect your decision and move on. But let's have a mature conversation, considering all the love we've shared. I really want to understand your thoughts and feelings, and why you decided to break up with me. I care about you a lot and hope we can make this happen. I love you!

How is this? Good? Bad? Too long and overwhelming? Or can kinda work? Maybe a mix of the two? Or still better do absolutely nothing for a while and try this in a month or two? On one hand I'm afraid their relationship could consolidate and my chances fall deeply, and my depression increase. On the other hand I can hope the initial idealization of the new bf will fade over time and my chances will be higher. Which is my best bet in your opinion?

I want to thank you with all my heart for your support!

[kells76]

Hey DeeplyLovingHer, thanks for filling out some more background on the last time you two met up. I think that'll be really helpful for the group to understand your situation.

We were supposed to meet and she told me not to go, then she blocked me on WA and I reached out via email.
We had an exchange of like 20 emails, where I was saying I was going to see her, no matter what.

And she replied not to go like 10 times, threatening twice to call the cops, but in the end, we met each other and had dinner together. She was really mad at me and at the end left my car while we were still talking. I never seen her again since then.

That's a pretty intense last interaction and that's important context for decision-making going forward.

If I were a female in that situation, and I was having mixed feelings/thoughts towards a partner -- mostly negative, but maybe I was curious if we could get some closure if I just gave in and met in person -- or maybe I hoped that if I just agreed to meet in person, some of the "good parts" of my partner would be there -- it would be really, really easy for that last interaction to confirm to me what Skip is warning about here:

even if you send her a gold bar, her first reaction is going to be that you don't respect her and this is all about what "DeeplyLovingHer" wants - not what she wants.

We can be inadvertently invalidating and can accidentally shoot ourselves in the foot as we let our anxieties and preoccupations about our partners "drive the car".

This is a steep hill to climb back from, and doing/saying/communicating anything that reminds her of that last encounter would seem pretty counterproductive, at least to me where I'm sitting at the computer.

What will remind her of that last encounter isn't the specific words, necessarily, but more the tone/feel/focus/frequency/"invitedness" of communications. My thought is that if communications from you focus on you and your feelings, and feel intrusive or uninvited, she may mentally go right back to "that's just who he is, because he doesn't take no for an answer and steamrolls my boundaries". Not saying who is right or wrong here -- just pointing out that whatever your intention, communication that's about you and what you want and how you feel can come across that way.

...

I appreciate you sharing your drafts for feedback. I think that's really wise to get other eyes on those before making any decisions.

To me, the first draft would be a non-starter. It feels like it's about you, and that's how the last encounter likely felt to her.

The second draft is getting closer to effective.

If it were me, I'd pare it down to:

Hey X, how are you doing? I'm heading to City X for work next week (which isn't far from where she lives). On my way back, I'd love to stop by your town and have lunch with you. I've booked a place for us on this day at this time. I've had some time to think about us, and there's something important I want to share with you that I believe will make you happy. If you decide you don't want to see me after this, I'll respect your decision and move on. But let's have a mature conversation, considering all the love we've shared. I really want to understand your thoughts and feelings, and why you decided to break up with me. I care about you a lot and hope we can make this happen. I love you! Keep me posted if you want to catch up -- cheers, DLH

I still wouldn't send it yet.

What'll be really important is sitting with your own feelings about this, and what you mentioned here is key:

This time it's different tho, as it was her bf saying this so I don't know how the threat could be seen. Sometimes honestly I'm also thinking that it's kinda crazy I can't defend myself against all this emotional damage I've gone through.

That seems to be "driving your car" right now. What do you think?

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi Kells, I appreciate your help once again.

Yes, our last interaction was pretty intense.

Honestly, it was going on for about two weeks after the previous episode of me accidentally sharing the notes regarding BPD and my exes. This is the real reason for the breakup I believe.

I understand she would be upset about this, even tho I did nothing against her. I was just trying to make order in my life first since I had so many issues with memory loss, and after that to understand why she could have such strange reactions I couldn't explain (when I found this forum).

I can't be still certain if she has or does not have BPD, but the only reason it popped into my mind is that she mentioned it once a couple of years earlier when I was asking her about her mood switches. I never heard about BPD before, so if I started digging into it, it was just because she mentioned it to me and I really wanted to understand her.

And after reading all this stuff, I didn't run away, but instead, I decided to stay with her, because I do love her with all my heart.

My only desire was to finally understand what she could have gone through, and eventually learn some useful skills to better manage the conflict and improve our relationship.

She told me I wanted to manipulate her, but I had no intention to do so whatsoever.

She was off and trying to discard me for two weeks, I managed to cool things down and agreed to meet for the weekend.

But after two weeks of ongoing 24/7 stress, no sleep, and mental breakdown, I was very far from being the best version of myself. I booked a flight to see her two times, the first one she told me not to go, and I booked again the week after that.

She seemed happy and I was finally happy as well, but a few minor incidents messed up everything again the day before we were supposed to meet. She started blaming me again and trying everything she could to make me fail.

I stayed up till 2:30 am dealing with an argument over WhatsApp and didn't sleep much again that night. So the day we were supposed to meet I was late and she got mad at me and used this reason to split on me and blocked me everywhere while we were talking on WA and I was already on my way to meet her.

So that being said, everyone seems to agree to the fact that I should do nothing.

The thing is that I trust you very much, but this time I'm probably more afraid than before about the situation.

I tried NC for four months, hoping she would reach out again. I respected her boundaries and I took seriously her suggestion to work on myself, as I hoped she would do the same.

What is driving the car is mostly my desperation of losing someone I care about so much, as I put a lot of effort into making our relationship work, and I know she did it too. And I know I love her very much and she loves me too.
So I'm desperate thinking we could have messed up this forever for some stupid misunderstanding.
She wanted to give us a second chance, but it's like we never really had it.

[Caleb91]

Hi DeeplyLovingHer,

It's remarkable how similar our relationships sound. The fact that you got in trouble for doing something fairly innocent to "try to make order" in your life illustrates how many landmines there are in this kind of relationship and how hard, maybe impossible it is not to step on one.

I also relate very much to the idea of her "trying to make you fail" and you being kept up arguing til 2:30 am, and then getting in trouble for being late the next day. I too was dragged into draining arguments and then punished for the natural consequences of being drained. My ex created scenarios where I couldn't win.

Looking at your relationship from the outside, it seems like no matter what you did she would have found a source of conflict and you'd end up in the same spot. If it hadn't been the notes, it would have been something else. The "minor incidents that messed up everything" before you were to meet, or whatever you fought about on WhatsApp til 2:30 am, it's always something. And if you'd sidestepped those landmines you would have stepped on another one.

This is all to say that I don't think you should beat yourself up over whatever missteps you made because the fights and ultimate breakup seem inevitable.

I too have been reading everything I can about BPD, doing a deep dive on this message board looking for stories, clues, lessons about how to reconnect with my ex and keep things more peaceful when we hopefully get the opportunity. I do think I've learned a lot and could navigate her disorder more aptly in the next round, but I'm also realizing that with people like our exes, it might just be impossible not to step on a landmine. There are too many, everywhere. And especially when they set us up for failure the way they do, what are we to expect, is there really any other outcome?

Through your story of dating somebody remarkably similar to my ex, I'm starting to see how hopeless my own situation might be. That doesn't mean I wont continue waking up every morning hoping to see a text from my ex, for the time being, but maybe your story is starting to help me see the forest for the trees in my own situation. Thank you for continuing to share.

[kells76]

So that being said, everyone seems to agree to the fact that I should do nothing.

"Doing nothing" is one way to look at it.

Another one is: you are actively choosing to do something, and the thing you're choosing to do is be deeply strategic, play the long game, and be planful and non-impulsive about your communications.

it depends on how you want to see it.

The thing is that I trust you very much, but this time I'm probably more afraid than before about the situation.

I think anyone in your situation would feel afraid, too. That's hard stuff -- I'm sorry it's hitting you.

I tried NC for four months, hoping she would reach out again. I respected her boundaries and I took seriously her suggestion to work on myself, as I hoped she would do the same.

Going back to what Skip shared, there's some timeline stuff to think about. You were on a path for 120 days (4 months) and landed at "I really want to reconnect". Maybe you were angry first, then grieved, then were depressed, then at baseline, then activated to do a tangible thing (flowers). Your process all fit in that 120 day timeline.

I wonder if she is on a pretty different process timeline. Maybe her first step is grief, now she's at anger (big walls going up). But on a much longer timeline. You've "processed" and are in a place of wanting to do something tangible again. It may take her much longer to get to a baseline/action place. Her timeline might not be 4 months like yours was. Continuing to catch her in an "angry/walls up" place might not make her process go faster. She might take many more months to get to a more baseline place about you. Again, like Skip said, hard to say -- just me trying to think of ways to understand the dynamic.

I think she's done with the old relationship with you. She may at some point be ready for a new/different relationship with you -- it may be that she does not want to go back to how things were. That could be important to remember.

Were the two "big" relationship-ending issues her finding your notes about BPD, and you being late that one time? (I'm not saying who is right or wrong about those incidents -- just making sure I'm on the same page as you).

If so, would she see those as kind of emblematic of the "old" relationship? Because there's the content of what happened, but then there's feeling/theme of what happened. The content was: "I found your notes, I can't believe you'd hide that from me" and "why can't you ever be on time, I've been waiting for hours" (or something like those statements). But it's the theme of what happened that I think she doesn't want any more.

Core complaints/themes typically aren't about specific incidents, they're more about patterns of relating. Could the theme be: "DeeplyLovingHer doesn't respect me"? Genuinely, put yourself in her shoes: what is/was her core complaint, thematically, about the relationship?

What is driving the car is mostly my desperation of losing someone I care about so much, as I put a lot of effort into making our relationship work, and I know she did it too. And I know I love her very much and she loves me too.
So I'm desperate thinking we could have messed up this forever for some stupid misunderstanding.
She wanted to give us a second chance, but it's like we never really had it.

What are the pros and cons of having your fear of loss "drive the car" right now?

This is really difficult stuff. Glad you're here and talking through it.

[ForeverDad]

... My ex created scenarios where I couldn't win.

Looking at your relationship from the outside, it seems like no matter what you did she would have found a source of conflict and you'd end up in the same spot. If it hadn't been the notes, it would have been something else... it's always something. And if you'd sidestepped those landmines you would have stepped on another one.

This is all to say that I don't think you should beat yourself up over whatever missteps you made because the fights and ultimate breakup seem inevitable.

Likely whatever contact you attempt to initiate will fail, at least for now.  (Especially with the threats to involve the police!)  To you what you want to say or do feels right but you have to remember that you're reasonably normal.  Your logic, reasonings and perceptions are not her emotional perceptions.

Years ago I learned this insight... BPD is a disorder of close relationships and how they are perceived.  You have had a close emotional history.  That emotional baggage of the past relationship may be too much for her to overcome her perceptions and triggers and truly listen to you, especially if she doesn't avail herself of experienced and emotionally neutral therapy.

Unfortunately you've had on again, off again repetitions, or break up cycles.  Even if you do manage to get together again at some point, there's the old adage, "past history is likely to be future history" or something like that.

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi Caleb91,
thanks for your support. And yes, indeed the similarities are remarkable.
I did everything with the best intentions, or at least with no aim to do anything bad to her or our relationship.
In fact I did everything I could (in these conditions) to work on myself and our relationship.
I thought I needed to make order in my life first since I had HUGE memory loss problems after the traumatic brakeup.
I tried to date other girls, but I wasn't even remembering to text them after we matched on Tinder, so I had to write it down.
Just to make you understand how badly my mind was functioning. Of course she called me a maniac for this, but literally I had no interest on dating these girls, and this would never happen if she wouldn't brake up with me.

Also regarding BPD, since it's a super complex matter, I tried to understand it. And my point was if I can truly understand what's going on with her, I could make it better. I could deal with certain difficult situation in a more positive way etc...

Again she got super upset, saying she don't deserve to be with someone who think his GF has BPD (it literally popped up in my mind because she mention she could have it years before and I was mad at myself for not paying enough attention).

Lastly when this last break up happened, one day she told me: "We both know there is nothing you can do to make things right, cuz every path you might take could be wrong".

When I thought water were calm enough to meet and make peace, I made the biggest mistake to relax before it happened.
And some minor issues became the "excuse" to start another argument, setting me up for failure and eventually drop me like a garbage in the trash bin.

When she did that, she left some room for a different ending, telling me that "she didn't know if she would ever come back with me", and "she never loved someone else like me". I believe these statements, as I believe whatever I did she perceived as something I did against her, made her feel really bad and automatically I was turned into the "bad guy" who created these feelings, even tho it wasn't my intention AT ALL and I was begging for forgiveness and trying to explain myself a million time.

Maybe you are right and there was no way out, but I believe I was close and she also told me that. So if we could manage to spend the weekend together probably we could avoid the breakup. I'm so mad at myself for this, not trying to make the last efforts in order to avoid all this suffering (for myself and for her too). I thought we were fine at that point after we agreed to meet she seemed happy, but we clearly weren't already okay as I thought, otherwise she wouldn't react like that.

Sorry for taking so long to reply, but my mood got much worse since last time I posted, that I had to start taking pills and hire a psychologist to help me fight the severe depression and frustration, and sense of hopeless I'm experiencing these days.

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi Kells,
and thank you so much once again for the great insights!
Also my apologies for being away from here, but I had a mental breakdown and I couldn't deal with this for a few days.
I was just feeling desperate, empty and hopeless, without energy to go though this pain again.
Now I feel a bit better and as always, as soon as I feel okay I'm trying to make moves, to get better myself or do something positive for her and our relationship.

So, about what you wrote, yes I decided to don't act impulsively and slowly trying to understand what would be my best options and do whatever is better for both of us.

This is what I've done in the beginning as well and during these 120 days.

So I'll try to recap to make you better understand.

1) FIRST ISSUE (prior the breakdown): she started feeling doubts about our relationship and other things in her life. I was trying to calm her down, and help her making the right decisions regarding our relationship, and other stuff totally unrelated like family and work (but that I'm quite sure had some impact in her overall mood and also her decision to terminate our relationship)

2) SECOND ISSUE: we were navigating in these tumultuous waters for about two weeks and I started feeling very stressed as I had to be on alert all the time and I felt there was something off that could be a danger for our relationship.

3) THIRD ISSUE: all of this + my own problems (work, business, health, stress, etc...) drove me to committing the mistake of sharing these notes. Again I did it because I was totally DUMB and ofc as I didn't feel I did something bad I had nothing to hide (I didn't even think she could react like this). Also these notes were made months before (almost 1 year before), when we were NOT TOGETHER since we broke up for the second time. Also, as I explained to Caleb as well, I did this to make order in my life, since I had so many neurological issues, including memory loss that I COULDN'T remember my previous relationship and the girls I was actually matching and talking with during these days. When I realized how bad my memory was, I put this down to remember and trying to clear up my thoughts. The notes about BPD came later but still before we got back together and since everything was going pretty ok, I never opened them once again. -> FROM HER POINT OF VIEW: this was the proof I'm a predator, and a manipulator.

4) FOURTH ISSUE: for two weeks she was super off and wanted to break up with me in all the possible ways. I managed with a huge amount of effort, desperation and stress to resonate with her, and we agreed to meet to spend the weekend together. I was so relieved that I had to relax a bit after all of this. But it was too early, cuz again some minor issues were the source of huge arguments (usually it wasn't like that).

5) THE KAYTAKES: she is clearly disappointed by my goofy, dumb way of living, which I admit, is due to long covid, burnout and huge amount of stress and physical/psychological pain. I did many stupid things that could upset her, I understand. But she doesn't understand that she wants to break up with my problems and not with myself. I'm still the person she felt in love with, I just need a bit of support and understanding from her. She also suffered a lot the distance, which I did too. But for me it was just a temporary issue, while for her it seems to be something unbearable after sometimes. I see everything with the long term picture in my mind, like I'm doing sacrifices now for a better life tomorrow (like buying a place for us and finally move together which is the only thing I want), but she is focusing more on the today struggles instead. Last thing she is calling me out for not taking responsibility, not making efforts to better myself or our relationship, which is absolutely not true. I did my best to do that. Maybe not enough, maybe not what she wanted, maybe idk. But this is all I wanted and I put a huge amount of effort/time into helping and supporting her every time she needed, even tho I was already way overwhelmed by my personal problems, and unfortunately I didn't get the same from her. I'm not blaming her, just making sure my point of view is also clear enough.

I think these are the main reasons why she broke up with me once again.

MY HOPE: is that if we can talk when she is calm and deeply share our emotions, willingness to work on ourselves and our relationship, we can really be happy together. I never loved anyone else like her in my life. I strongly believe in her as a person and I don't want to give up on her, even after what happened was very painful. I don't want to get back to our previous dysfunctional relationship, but instead to a better version of it. More conscious and self aware, where we better understand each other and make steps towards ourselves and support each others to reach our personal and common goals.

This is what we already agreed to do, just a moment before I shared these notes that drove her mad and ended our relationship.

[DeeplyLovingHer]

I think I forgot the last 120 days analysis.

So it was like:

Phase 1 (immediately after the breakup)
ME = I won't believe it's happening again -> huge stress and frustration
HER =

Phase 2 (first month)
ME = trying to work on myself, resolving my personal life issues that were making my life more difficult and had an indirect impact on our relationship too
SHE = was still watching my stories on Instagram with a secondary account

Phase 3 (month 2)
ME = then trying to recover a bit mentally and physically by spending more time outside with friends and family
SHE = was still watching my stories on Instagram with a secondary account

Phase 4 (month 3)
ME = Got a new big client so I was overwhelmed by my work again, then started feeling very bad because of too much work and heatwave and stopped posting on social media
SHE. = Probably but not sure started thinking about the other guy

Phase 5 (month 4)
ME = I was still hoping she would break the silence but at that point Ive tried to date someone else (out of boredom mostly) until I realized that I didn't care at all and I was tired to wait / scared she wouldn't come back / quite feeling okay enough to find some energy to write that letter and make the move
SHE = Probably but not sure started dating the other guy

[DeeplyLovingHer]

So regarding what to do in this situation, firstly I think I committed a terrible mistake.

In the beginning even if she was so mad at me, I still believe I had the chance to fix this if I was insisting a bit more. Instead I've chosen to respect her decision and wait her, even if it's something I would have never accepted in another situation.

I was probably too focused on thinking she would be back whenever after some time, which is clearly a stupid idea.

She also told me something and did something to make me thinking it could happen again:
- she said "I don't know if I will ever come back with you again" and also "I loved you so much, I never loved anyone like you".
- she was checking my social media for about two months (then I stopped posting because I was overwhelmed with my work, sad, depressed, sick, etc...) and when I posted again after more than a month she has disappeared

Then I sent her a letter without addressing too much the issue and focusing on forgiveness and having a beautiful future together. I did it with the best intentions, but she is probably still mad, or she just have this guy in her mind now.

What can I do?

1) DO NOTHING MORE -> JUST MOVE ON AND PRAY AND TRY DON'T HANG YOURSELF MEANWHILE
2) SEND HER A SHORT TEXT -> ASK POLITELY IF WE CAN TALK, SAYING THAT IT'S IMPORTANT BUT SHE CAN DECIDE WHEN (I CAN WAIT AND RESPECT HER TIMING)
3) SEND HER A SHORT TEXT -> SAY THAT YOU'LL BE AROUND NEXT WEEK, AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HER AND TALK
4) SEND HER A RANDOM THING -> A REEL, A SONG, ETC... FROM TIME TO TIME, REMINDING HER I'M STILL ALIVE AND WAITING FOR HER
5) SEND HER ANOTHER LETTER -> THIS TIME ADDRESSING THE REAL ISSUES ABOUT WHY WE BROKE UP (I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN PERSON AND I STILL BELIEVE IT WOULD BE THE BEST OPTION, IF SHE WILL TALK TO ME)
6) SEND HER ANOTHER LETTER -> SAYING I'M GIVING UP AND MOVING ON AND I WISH HER ALL THE BEST
7) CREATE SOME BEAUTIFUL ART DESCRIBING OUR LOVE STORY TO CREATE EMOTIONS (like a photobook or a storytelling video) AND SEND IT TO HER AS CHRISTMAS GIFT -> I think she might like it and I always wanted to do this, but of course I would prefer to do it when we are actually together and not in this situation.

Please help me to don't make any more stupid things, but to save this beautiful love.

[Skip]

What can I do?

1) do nothing more -> just move on and pray and try don't hang yourself meanwhile

2) send her a short text -> ask politely if we can talk, saying that it's important but she can decide when (I can wait and respect her timing)

3) send her a short text -> say that you'll be around next week, and I would love to see her and talk

4) send her a random thing -> a reel, a song, etc... From time to time, reminding her I'm still alive and waiting for her

5) send her another letter -> this time addressing the real issues about why we broke up (I wanted to talk about this in person and I still believe it would be the best option, if she will talk to me)

6) send her another letter -> saying I'm giving up and moving on and I wish her all the best

7) create some beautiful art describing our love story to create emotions (like a photobook or a storytelling video) and send it to her as christmas gift -> I think she might like it and I always wanted to do this, but of course I would prefer to do it when we are actually together and not in this situation.

Please help me to don't make any more stupid things, but to save this beautiful love.

You can't do anything right now that will help you case.

You sent flowers two weeks ago. After four months, she now knows you would like to reconnect. You said it loud and clear. She heard you. But it's a seed right now and you have to give it time to grow on its own terms.

The next time she has an argument with her boyfriend, or he disappoints her, your interest in her will cross her mind. Give her some time to process that and her current relationship. It's not as if you can contact someone after months of silence and expect them to blow up their life and jump into your arms.

1. Clearly the boyfriend also got the message and he put up a barrier to you (cops), he has probably pushing on her to tell him she is not interested in you, and he is probably watching her very carefully. As caleb91 said above, anything you send is going to fuel negativity toward you. 2. If she does reach out, the last thing she wants you to do is smoother the situation with a list of everything that was broken in the relationship and why you "had to" and were justified, or explanations of why you are sorry, or romantic stories on why you went silent. You will be best served to let this all go. This is a very important thing to understand. If she contacts you it will be because she remembers the good and the bad has faded away. If there were problems, just don't do it anymore. But don't bring all the "ugly" back up... it can only give her pause. 3. Now is not the time for "some beautiful art describing our love story". Romantic partners love this when the relationship is going good but its way too much in the current situation. This will blow up the situation more than the flowers did. It's way out over your skis. 4. Spend time working on relationship skills. Listen and read. There is a lot of material that can help you here.

Just as an exercise, let's assume you had a do-over (assume the flowers were never sent). What would be a better way to reach out - and why?  Do you know why the flowers got the reaction they did? Can you explain why "beautiful art describing our love" is a problem?

[Caleb91]

You can't do anything right now that will help you case.

You sent flowers two weeks ago. After four months, she now knows you would like to reconnect. You said it loud and clear. She heard you. But it's a seed right now and you have to give it time to grow on its own terms.

The next time she has an argument with her boyfriend, or he disappoints her, your interest in her will cross her mind. Give her some time to process that and her current relationship. It's not as if you can contact someone after months of silence and expect them to blow up their life and jump into your arms.

Thanks Skip, this applies to my situation perfectly, so I'm right there with you DeeplyLovingHer, rooting for both of us. I love the metaphor of a seed that's been planted, that now needs to grow on its own terms.

It reminds me of this ficus I have, which about three years ago lost all of its leaves. There were literally just a few leaves left and it looked dead. I took it to work where I had a balcony, since I don't have any outdoor space at home, and put it outside to hopefully get some fresh air and come back to life. After a couple of months it still hadn't grown any leaves back. I was about to write it off as dead, when somebody said we should cut into a branch to see if it's green inside, because if there's still green it means the plant is still alive. It was green inside, so I kept watering it every week even though I was seeing no progress. I have a lot of plants both at home and at the office so watering it just became my routine for months while I stopped paying very close attention to this ficus. Work was busy so I had stopped focusing on this plant, and I remember some months later looking at the plant and seeing all of these new leaves and thinking "when did that happen??" I hadn't even noticed buds. Some months after that I was struck again when I looked at the plant and realized that it had completely filled in. I brought the ficus home and I believe it's now more full of leaves than it was before it "died" in 2021. In fact I was just comparing pictures, marveling at it.

I think about this plant a lot as it relates to the situation with my ex. My relationship looks dead, but I believe there's still some green inside. Between social media posts and music choices I've seen from her, and the emotions that still seem intense enough to have me blocked, I don't believe that our relationship is "dead inside"...I believe there's still some green. And so I've tried to put my focus elsewhere while our love "regrows." 

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi @skip and thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

1. Clearly the boyfriend also got the message and he put up a barrier to you (cops), he has probably pushing on her to tell him she is not interested in you, and he is probably watching her very carefully. As caleb91 said above, anything you send is going to fuel negativity toward you.

Yes it surely is like this as you just said

2. If she does reach out, the last thing she wants you to do is smoother the situation with a list of everything that was broken in the relationship and why you "had to" and were justified, or explanations of why you are sorry, or romantic stories on why you went silent. You will be best served to let this all go. This is a very important thing to understand.

If she contacts you it will be because she remembers the good and the bad has faded away. If there were problems, just don't do it anymore. But don't bring all the "ugly" back up... it can only give her pause.

About this I do understand what you mean, but on the other hand I believe I should be heard as well and we have to work on our relationship issues, otherwise even if we get back together we might fall again the same way. So we have to work on it individually and this is something I'm already doing on my side, but we have to find a common ground to work on this together as a couple. I don't want to jump back on the bad side of what happened but I think we should discuss it somehow.

3. Now is not the time for "some beautiful art describing our love story". Romantic partners love this when the relationship is going good but its way too much in the current situation. This will blow up the situation more than the flowers did. It's way out over your skis.

Ok yes I think you are right, it's too much in this situation.

4. Spend time working on relationship skills. Listen and read. There is a lot of material that can help you here.

Yes I'm doing this. I hope it's gonna work.

Just as an exercise, let's assume you had a do-over (assume the flowers were never sent). What would be a better way to reach out - and why?  Do you know why the flowers got the reaction they did? Can you explain why "beautiful art describing our love" is a problem?

The flowers were too much. Honestly I had two options and I probably chose the worst. One was the flowers + letter as I did and the other one was a simple email asking if she is still mad and we could reconnect.

I went for the flowers because this is what I felt. I feel good things, I wanted to do good things for her. Like sending flowers and a letter where I sincerely apologize and tease about an happy future together, like we both wanted. Also the letter was done with a bit of sarcasm and was supposed to make her smile. But I clearly failed.

I should have probably go much easier, taking little steps to reconnect.

Am I right?

So now I'm not doing anything but it still puzzling my mind that this time if I don't do anything anymore she could maybe never come back for many reasons.

I think she was pissed by what she saw and she felt betrayed (even tho I have NEVER done that).

She did everything she could to cancel me from her mind (blocked me everywhere, canceled all our pictures, avoid talking with me, trying to switch her mind to something new, getting in a new relationship, painting me black, etc...)

I think she is looking for an easy way to replace me and she found it in this guy because it's gonna be much easier.

They know each others for long time, he is the classic passive guy that she can easily manage and he'll do whatever she wants, they live close so distance it's not a problem anymore, they are about the same age, so this is not a problem anymore as well, they have common friends, so they are probably rooting for him and none for me).

On the other hand it will be much more complicated to break up with this guy for the very same reasons, I guess.

So I'm kinda hopeless about that right now.
If I can't re-establish some kind of communication with her, she will never come back this time.

That's why I was thinking about a more softer approach like sending a reel or short message asking how she is doing and if we can talk sometimes and nothing else, but as you said it's a very dangerous hand to play with and could have the opposite effect.

Last time we broke up, in the beginning we manage to talk again, then she started accusing me again and we had an argument and she blocked me everywhere. Then I was begging to talk and make peace, sending some songs and being ignored. Then after 2 months she reappeared like nothing ever happened. But again this time seems much worse honestly.

[DeeplyLovingHer]

I just had an epiphany.

Because I kept these notes about BPD and how to manage the conflict, etc...
And she is denial, I think now she is proving to me and herself that she has not BPD by not coming back again to me, reinforcing all her belief of how bad I'm and how she was right to split me black.

[ForeverDad]

And she is denial, I think now she is proving to me and herself that she has not BPD by not coming back again to me, reinforcing all her belief of how bad I'm and how she was right to split me black.

A person with BPD (pwBPD) - or if not diagnosed then someone with observed traits matching BPD perceptions and patterns - can display both behavior types.  Not just the repeating cycles of break-up and make-up, but eventually it can end with you permanently split black.

This might be a progression of her behavior... previously it was cycles of disfavor then favor, repeated... and now it has progressed to what may be a final stage where you can't expect her to come back to you.

I'm not the only one - there are many of us here - who have, as the saying goes, "been there, experienced that".

[Caleb91]

...but eventually it can end with you permanently split black.

This might be a progression of her behavior... previously it was cycles of disfavor then favor, repeated... and now it has progressed to what may be a final stage where you can't expect her to come back to you.

Thanks for your perspective, ForeverDad. This really caught my attention because I'm two years into a breakup, into being blocked and excommunicated from my ex's life. I never believed I would be here because each time we broke up she eventually softened, unblocked me if I had been blocked, and we reconciled. But after this last breakup, a week turned into a month into six months and here I am at 2 years, wondering if I'll ever get another shot with my ex. I've spent so much time on this message board learning from this community about BPD and I believe that I have so many more tools to be able to handle the challenges of a relationship with her. The thought of not getting one more opportunity to have a peaceful relationship is tragic, because I believe we could do it, and I still love her so much.

In your experience, is somebody in my position most likely split black forever?

I think some factors in my favor are that I was my ex's first ever intimate partner in her late 20s, and she has an incredibly hard time getting close to new people. Though she spun quite the villain stories to her friends after our breakup, she also did post some nostalgic things over the months, and as recently as a few months ago some song choices indicated to me that she wasn't over the breakup.

So I have hope. But 2 years is a loooong time. What's your prognosis?

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Caleb91 we understand your frustration and pain, and we are all rooting for you.
But please stay on topic, this is a post regarding my personal situation and I'm already struggling myself to find answers. Thanks!

[DeeplyLovingHer]

ForeverDad yes I've been probably influenced too much about the BPD stuff that I blindly believed that this would happen again without any question. And of course, this is wrong.

This time I'm very worried that she would never come back. But I remember as well that last time I had exactly the same feelings. When breaking up this time she added "I don't know if I will ever come back with you"... leaving room for a second thought. But then everything turned much colder and I haven't heard from her since back then

I'm talking with the therapist but he seems not the right person to help me with this. He is not even considering that she has BPD or anyway her over-emotional attitude towards me, saying I should just accept the reality and move on.

Well I do accept the reality that she is not my girlfriend anymore, but this doesn't change the fact that she could be my gf again in the future and we can be happy, or at least we can have a decent friendly relationship.

I think that when you care about something and you believe that you can still do something to improve it, you should go for it! This mindset has helped me tremendously during my entrepreneurial journey. Otherwise, I would have failed many times and probably just become a loser homeless or a 9to5 office slave (which is something I never wanted).

But instead, I have never given up!
And this is something she liked. My determination, my confidence, my resilience.
I think that this is something you should be proud of.

Now with all due respect for her feelings and the wall that she put between us, I would make a final little move and then disappear again and live my life the best I can do, while still hoping that she will make her own move to reconnect with me sooner or later.

During these months I focused on myself, on solving my problems, improving my life and my health. Now I'm far from being the best version of myself, but I do feel much better than back then, and I can better handle my problems and our relationship as well.

Please guys help me to answer a few questions:

1) In your opinion, it's a stupid idea to do anything at all, or should I put my effort into this as I explained? She left me saying that I didn't prove to her that I cared enough and she was suffering for this reason because she love me very much. At the same time she was always upset because when I was saying I'm sorry, I was pointing out that most of my fails were caused by my health or work related issues, so in her opinion I was just finding excuses. Another reason is that I was abroad and she probably felt abandoned or anyway I was out of her sight for too long to keep the love alive and it faded away. So I believe that it makes sense to show her that I care, otherwise in her mind I will be just the careless person that she left no?

2) Would you:
- A) send her an email which is the last way we used to communicate but I feel very impersonal and cold
- B) text her on her other Instagram profile that she used to check my account while she blocked me, risking she would block me there as well? (I think this might work better to reconnect on an emotional and personal level, but I never pursued this way cuz I'm afraid that if she reacts in a bad way, she will close this door too and never check on me removing the chance that she will change her mind by herself by seeing something she likes on my social media).
- C) Wait for Christmas and send her a gift + a letter (always did it even when we broke up in the past and it was appreciated, but I'm afraid to wait that long for many reasons (there are important stuff coming up in her life and for us in November and December, and I'm afraid that if I don't do anything, meanwhile the other guy will be consolidating his position while I can't and I will be discarded even more)
- D) Wait till half November when I'll be there and I can say that I'm already around and ask her if we can meet for a casual coffee date and talk

3) I think I might play a mix of these:
- First text will be short and concise saying that I wish she is doing well, asking how it's going and saying that I would just talk whenever she is ready for it
- If the first attempt doesn't work I might try a second short text that could be mid-November when I'll be around (just letting her know that I'll be close cuz I have a meeting with this new client (I think she might like to hear that).
- If 1 and 2 still don't get an answer, last chance will be Xmas and I'll probably never contact ever her again if I receive a bad feedback or no answer at all and I'll move on for good

Is it too much? Or is it a fair play for both of us?

4) The first message would be short and concise and will just focus on these things:
- showing her that I care about her, interest and curiosity towards her personal life and accomplishments
- highlighting that I respect her decision (I didn't contact her at all for 5 months and I don't want to be pushy)
- acknowledging my mistakes and making amend (I'm not sure about this because I did already apologized many times but it was never enough because she said I don't know how to apologize so I would try to exclude the "if", "but", etc...)
- saying that I understand and it's reasonable that she felt like that and decided to break up with me (I do think she has her good reasons to be upset, what I disagree on is just her reaction to it, instead of talking and solving the problem together).
- so playing the friendly card and just leaving the door open for her to make a move towards our reconnection, but without putting any pressure (whenever she feels ready for it, I'll just wait)

5) Last couple of things for which I do have some doubts:
- Would you tell her how much I'm suffering for this situation or it would be better to keep it for myself?
- Would you test the ground first, by sending a few casual reels or songs and see how she reacts to it? (We were used to do it very much and I miss a lot this sharing funny and interesting stuff with her)?
- How seriously should I be afraid of the new bf threats if I just contacted her once in over 5 months? I mean I don't feel like a criminal for just sending a bouquet of flowers and trying to apologize with her. And honestly I'm not 100% sure that they are really together, but ofc it could be.
- Would you just play on reverse psychology and just say that I'm leaving for good instead?

Lastly I would thanks once again anyone that will try to help me with this situation.
I just want to make the right decision for both of us.
You have been very helpful and kind with me.

Bless y'all!

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Just to be super straightforward about my end goal and intentions.
I want to just be nice and respectful. I don't want to play stupid games, don't want to be seen as pushy or insistent.
My first goal is to restart communicating with her hoping to get back together with time and trust.
The other goal is to be seen in a better way, like the person I truly am, the guy she felt in love with and wanted a future together, until she will eventually realize one day that she might have done a mistake and come back to me by herself.

That's  it, I hope I can find the right way.
Thank you!

[Amina]

Hi,

I've been on and off with a man for 5 years, and he threatens to call the cops sometimes and there is no logical reason. I generally remain calm, and he has split on me so often in the past 5 years, I have to understand this is unpredictable.  He will not be capable to get close to someone else unless he receives DBT.  I am certain.  So I would allow the focus to remain that this would be short-term for her, and she will split on him too.  When she does, she may reach out to you.

I sometimes reach out calmly after a week or two to see the responses. Ultimately, it is very sad and I am wholly invested in the larger scale of society that these types of people can somehow be helped when they so often refuse or are in denial.

[Notwendy]

I am wondering what you think your therapist should advise differently if he considered your ex GF has BPD?

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Well simply take into consideration the particular behavior I have to deal with and the impact it had on me

[DeeplyLovingHer]

Hi,

I've been on and off with a man for 5 years, and he threatens to call the cops sometimes and there is no logical reason. I generally remain calm, and he has split on me so often in the past 5 years, I have to understand this is unpredictable.  He will not be capable to get close to someone else unless he receives DBT.  I am certain.  So I would allow the focus to remain that this would be short-term for her, and she will split on him too.  When she does, she may reach out to you.

I sometimes reach out calmly after a week or two to see the responses. Ultimately, it is very sad and I am wholly invested in the larger scale of society that these types of people can somehow be helped when they so often refuse or are in denial.

Hi Amina, thanks for your support.
Yes the "I'll call the cops stuff" is really crazy and extreme!
Last fight she wished me to suffer like she said she suffered because of me.
At first I was kinda scared as she never told me something like that.
But now I'm okay, I understand what she was going through even tho is completely out of reality that I wanted to hurt her for any reasons I understand how she might have felt.
I'm not sure if this was the scope of all of this, but the level of pain and excruciating suffering she put me into, probably made me even more acknowledged about her emotional distress, and closer to her soul and feelings in general.
I hope you will find the way.
I'm sometimes quite positive thinking that I can make it work and help her overcoming her struggles, and together we can be happy again and even more now that I can better understand her.

But lately I started feeling more hopeless and discouraged as well. It's kinda of mixed vibes.

Sometimes I'm really wondering if I become crazy myself by thinking I would spend the rest of my life like this when you never know if one day this will happen again for any stupid reason, after you put into your relationship all the energy you had.

I just hope love will prevail

[Notwendy]

Well simply take into consideration the particular behavior I have to deal with and the impact it had on me

That makes sense. The therapist is going to focus on you- because you are the client. He wouldn't be able to make an assessment of her as he hasn't seen or met her.

So perhaps he can't assume she has BPD but I think/hope he'd be able to help you with your side of things.

As to what to do next to attempt to reach out- I don't think there's a "BPD approach"- they are still individuals. I think you have sent messages/gifts already and she hasn't responded. Of the ideas you mentioned- if you are already in town, you could ask her to meet you for coffee just to talk- if she doesn't want to do that, then you have tried.

If you communicate with her, I wouldn't tell her how miserable you are or that you disagree with how she's going about this- this is putting your feelings out there for her and pwBPD have difficulty with their own feelings, and so it's not likely to get you the response you would wish for.