Big decision

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello there,

I split up over 2 years ago with my wife as a result of her increasingly difficult behaviour. The usual story. I tried so hard to help us avoid this but to no avail, with things deteriorating and me feeling my own mental health crumble. We are from different countries, and I moved back to my home country to try to rebuild my life here, all the while still hoping there would be sufficient evidence that would make me want to try again with her. I say me, because she has always expressed a strong desire in me 'coming back' which is genuine but perhaps a bit unhealthy due to its strength.

The only way I could explain what I needed was by telling her I wanted 30 days without any arguments or harsh behaviour. And until now she has not managed it. There is always a nasty message out of the blue from some misperception. I can't blame her for it as she seems to struggle to control it. Perhaps it is unfair of me to set that task, but I need evidence that things are moving in a positive direction.

I did actually go back once for a week for a flying visit. It went fine. I was very worried prior to going but I had some time free, wanted to see her again and needed a couple of documents she had. But equally it didn't make me want to jump back in immediately anyway, and sure enough within a week of me being back home again she got quite aggressive just because I didn't reply to her messages quickly.

I hoped that she would meet someone new with a more stable job and higher salary that she could be happy with, so we could move on in separate ways. She probably has met a few new people but appears uninterested in moving on and wants desperately to rebuild things with me. So my hope that she would instigate the divorce was a foolish one. A few weeks ago, after speaking with her about it, I decided to start the divorce proceedings, which are fairly simple in her country. They are now in place and if neither of us does anything, we will be divorced by the end of the year or maybe much sooner.

She doesn't want to divorce, but she is not the kind of person to go to the courts to try to stop it, though she would probably think about doing so or threaten it. I imagine she will be totally broken if it goes ahead as it is the ultimate abandonment. And perhaps a rekindling would be really beneficial for her. I hoped we could both move on but she hasn't and I barely have as I still feel a huge amount of affection towards her. At the same time, in the last few weeks I have met someone new here. It is early days but I feel like it has great potential and I would hate to jeopardise that by taking a risky step.

Anyway, a terrible incident happened a week or so ago. My wife was attacked, apparently by a random stranger. She was injured, left unconscious and doesn't know fully what happened but she has been in hospital for the last few days, something I contributed a fair amount of money towards as if she had stayed at home her healing process could have been disastrous. She keeps saying 'don't divorce me'.

She has been incredibly emotional since this incident, as have her parents. No surprise, must have been a huge ordeal. They are all begging me to try again and cancel the divorce proceedings. I think they see me as the fix to the problems in her life. I have chatted at length to them that to cancel the divorce would be a huge risk to me financially and emotionally and I still worry we will have similar problems to those we faced in the past. It's no excuse for the bad days, but our many good days really were brilliant and we did and do gel together. But I can't live with the bad days as they were too bad, and I have made this clear. Her incidents, often due to poor decision-making, happen every month. But this time I don't think it was her fault at all and she could well be lucky to be alive. We spoke once this week on the phone and she was remarkably lucid, unusually so, but said she had no energy left. She needed my emotional support and still does, as you would expect.

Nevertheless, this awful incident may be the 'low point' or 'turning point' and perhaps she will, as she has promised repeatedly, improve her behaviour if we get back together. Of course, lies and BPD go hand in hand, but even if there end up being some small lies in what I have been told about this incident, it is too elaborate a situation for there not to be a lot of truth to it. I am sad I even have to say that, as it shows how lacking in trust these relationships can be. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

Anyway, I have asked them for time for me to consider things in great detail. A lot of deep thinking, whilst at the same time offering her emotional support in her recovery which I want to continue regardless. But we don't have a lot of time to cancel the divorce. Of course, we could always marry a second time later but it's not ideal at all. I don't have a job at present and am trying to find something remote which would be suitable for whatever outcome. But the lack of a job unfortunately means dwindling funds which I do not want to blow on a high-risk endeavour.

I am not asking anyone to decide for me, as this is for me alone to decide. But any perspectives on what I may be missing from my own understanding here. or any similar stories, may be useful.

Many thanks for all contributions and for what is an invaulable resource.

[silverberry]

Hello there,

I split up over 2 years ago with my wife as a result of her increasingly difficult behaviour. The usual story. I tried so hard to help us avoid this but to no avail, with things deteriorating and me feeling my own mental health crumble. We are from different countries, and I moved back to my home country to try to rebuild my life here, all the while still hoping there would be sufficient evidence that would make me want to try again with her. I say me, because she has always expressed a strong desire in me 'coming back' which is genuine but perhaps a bit unhealthy due to its strength.

The only way I could explain what I needed was by telling her I wanted 30 days without any arguments or harsh behaviour. And until now she has not managed it. There is always a nasty message out of the blue from some misperception. I can't blame her for it as she seems to struggle to control it. Perhaps it is unfair of me to set that task, but I need evidence that things are moving in a positive direction.

I did actually go back once for a week for a flying visit. It went fine. I was very worried prior to going but I had some time free, wanted to see her again and needed a couple of documents she had. But equally it didn't make me want to jump back in immediately anyway, and sure enough within a week of me being back home again she got quite aggressive just because I didn't reply to her messages quickly.

I hoped that she would meet someone new with a more stable job and higher salary that she could be happy with, so we could move on in separate ways. She probably has met a few new people but appears uninterested in moving on and wants desperately to rebuild things with me. So my hope that she would instigate the divorce was a foolish one. A few weeks ago, after speaking with her about it, I decided to start the divorce proceedings, which are fairly simple in her country. They are now in place and if neither of us does anything, we will be divorced by the end of the year or maybe much sooner.

She doesn't want to divorce, but she is not the kind of person to go to the courts to try to stop it, though she would probably think about doing so or threaten it. I imagine she will be totally broken if it goes ahead as it is the ultimate abandonment. And perhaps a rekindling would be really beneficial for her. I hoped we could both move on but she hasn't and I barely have as I still feel a huge amount of affection towards her. At the same time, in the last few weeks I have met someone new here. It is early days but I feel like it has great potential and I would hate to jeopardise that by taking a risky step.

Anyway, a terrible incident happened a week or so ago. My wife was attacked, apparently by a random stranger. She was injured, left unconscious and doesn't know fully what happened but she has been in hospital for the last few days, something I contributed a fair amount of money towards as if she had stayed at home her healing process could have been disastrous. She keeps saying 'don't divorce me'.

She has been incredibly emotional since this incident, as have her parents. No surprise, must have been a huge ordeal. They are all begging me to try again and cancel the divorce proceedings. I think they see me as the fix to the problems in her life. I have chatted at length to them that to cancel the divorce would be a huge risk to me financially and emotionally and I still worry we will have similar problems to those we faced in the past. It's no excuse for the bad days, but our many good days really were brilliant and we did and do gel together. But I can't live with the bad days as they were too bad, and I have made this clear. Her incidents, often due to poor decision-making, happen every month. But this time I don't think it was her fault at all and she could well be lucky to be alive. We spoke once this week on the phone and she was remarkably lucid, unusually so, but said she had no energy left. She needed my emotional support and still does, as you would expect.

Nevertheless, this awful incident may be the 'low point' or 'turning point' and perhaps she will, as she has promised repeatedly, improve her behaviour if we get back together. Of course, lies and BPD go hand in hand, but even if there end up being some small lies in what I have been told about this incident, it is too elaborate a situation for there not to be a lot of truth to it. I am sad I even have to say that, as it shows how lacking in trust these relationships can be. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

Anyway, I have asked them for time for me to consider things in great detail. A lot of deep thinking, whilst at the same time offering her emotional support in her recovery which I want to continue regardless. But we don't have a lot of time to cancel the divorce. Of course, we could always marry a second time later but it's not ideal at all. I don't have a job at present and am trying to find something remote which would be suitable for whatever outcome. But the lack of a job unfortunately means dwindling funds which I do not want to blow on a high-risk endeavour.

I am not asking anyone to decide for me, as this is for me alone to decide. But any perspectives on what I may be missing from my own understanding here. or any similar stories, may be useful.

Many thanks for all contributions and for what is an invaulable resource.

[ForeverDad]

The family of course does have their perspective, they're related to her.  So they're coming from the emotional perspective.  But ponder this incident, assuming it's on the up and up and not somehow contrived.  Did it change her?  Would she stop creating discord?  Or would the old conflict patterns emerge again?

We often note that unless a person is in meaningful therapy for an extended time, even years, actual long term change is unlikely.  You have been in a close relationship and people with BPD traits (pwBPD) don't truly listen to us because of the emotional baggage of the close relationship.  Do you have a reason to believe she has improved for the long term?

[silverberry]

Thanks ForeverDad.

I do not have any firm evidence she has changed for the long term. As I mentioned previously, the evidence I was looking for in previous months was "simply" 30 days without any arguments or issues. But this incident has left her in a near-constant state of weeping and her mother is asking me what to do. She is obviously highly traumatized. Add that to her original condition that is linked with trauma and shame and there is a possibility of permanent change, but by no means necessarily in a positive direction. More like extra mental scars to contend with. Hopefully her condition will improve over the coming days. Someone without BPD would be traumatized by this incident, so presumably it will have a much stronger impact on pwBPD. Could it impact the original condition in a positive way such as being a wakeup call to how precious life is, how petty some BPD complaints are, and so on? I don't know.

I wish I was closer and could visit easily but it's the other side of the world. It's exactly the wrong time for this to happen, as the divorce process has started and I, after 2 years, finally felt like I could move on. I also do not want to make a decision based on emotions, however extreme the situation. Yet I really want to help here and it is as if she will only be consoled properly when I am there, which obviously puts a great deal of pressure on me. To an outsider, we can appear as heartless to those who only know half the story - your wife has been injured and is traumatized and you are not jumping on a plane immediately! When I left her first, a friend of mine said 'you've abandoned your wife' as if I was in the wrong. If they knew there was an incident every month it might be very different, though admitedly this issue seems to be on a much higher level than normal, as her parents do not normally behave in the way they are currently behaving. It also coincides horribly with the divorce process and me meeting someone in my own country.

I will pouring a large glass of red wine shortly and trying to reach some kind of conclusion on how best to help but also protect myself financially and emotionally.

[Notwendy]

It's not being selfish to think of yourself in this situation. You aren't being heartless or uncaring. You made the decision that you don't want to stay married to this person, and now, people expect her situation to somehow change your feelings about this. Of course they want you to do it because they are thinking of their own best interests. Your wife is thinking about hers. But what about yours?

You are not being neglectful of the situation. You have real financial concerns to consider. Even if married- your ability to help financially is determined by these finances. It's also possible to help without being married.

I don't know what country you and your wife are in but in the US, one financial concern would be health insurance- is she on your policy and is it possible for her to remain on your policy if you two are divorced? If not- can you help her with paying for that premium? Paying her insurance is one way to help without actually being married.

Does she need a caregiver to help with recovery? While you could fly there and be her caregiver, that also means being unemployed yourself as you won't have time to seek employment or work. How will you manage? Another option is to remain where you are, continue to seek employment and if you wanted to help - help pay for some of the caregiving if needed.

One of the difficult aspects of being in the position where people want you to be the solution is that if we don't do it in the way they want, we become the "bad guy" and we don't want to be. There are probably other ways to help your wife that don't require staying married to her. Whatever you choose to do about this- if it's not staying married but still helping- you will need to hold on to knowing you are doing what you can, even if they are critical of it.

[silverberry]

Thanks for your reply Notwendy.

Neither of us is in the US. She is in a country where the healthcare is not great but it is also not too expensive either. Still financially challenging in these circumstances. Her family are helping as much as they can. It is complicated because she does have other underlying health issues. The BPD behaviour only exacerbates them. Indeed, her whole family appears never to sleep for a full 8 hours without interruption. If you don't sleep or eat properly and your emotions are constantly on high alert, then any unrelated health problems get much more serious.

When we lived together, I am pleased to say that she didn't spend a single night in hospital for her ailments, which seem to relate to a blood disorder. Perhaps this is because I put in place a routine which meant sleeping properly every night, and we also had sufficient funds to eat well. Her family are not rich and do not eat well.

I mentioned the boy who cried wolf before. She is crying wolf about many topics, and for some of them there really are plenty of wolves. The link between mental stress and physical ailments getting worse is really apparent in BPD. One of my family members thinks she is just a liar because she has lied in the past. The problem is that she has lied about some serious things but she is definitely not lying about others. Me starting the divorce process has clearly added to the stress, but how can that be avoided? I'm doing as much as I can but it feels that however much I do or try it doesn't create a positive outcome. It is the same with my career. I am capable and have done a huge amount of impressive projects, though none of them was profitable. I had a job here for 18 months until recently a merger meant my contract was not renewed. I am applying for lots of positions but almost all require 5 years in an identical field. But perhaps I will be lucky soon and find something that can alleviate this.

The rules from governments only make things worse. My own government demands I earn a fairly high salary to be allowed to invite my spouse to live here, higher than I have ever been on despite being more than capable. And her government limits what foreigners can do to a few select areas such as poorly-paid English teaching. So there is no easy way to make this work even if we did want to make it work, unless I accepted teaching English or found a remote job with a decent salary. I did make plans to arrange a visa for her before we split up, and if she had been stable and not verbally attacking me all the time then it may have worked out ok. But she wasn't and so it didn't, and now the visa rules are even tighter. So it is like facing not just one barrier but ten. If she didn't have BPD we would still face horrendous visa rules and underlying health issues.

My way of dealing with this has been to make notes and tell myself I am going to write a book. If life is not good, it is at least interesting.

[Notwendy]

Her parents may assume you have a greater ability to take care of your wife. Even with financial constraints, it seemed that you took care of her better than they could. To a parent, this is huge. But you also found this marriage to be troubled and made steps to end it. Of course the divorce is stressful- divorce is a difficult and stressful situation. But people do it when they feel they need to.

To be more realistic- if you are not employed at the moment, and are in job seeking mode. Your resources- emotionally and financially are limited. It's distressing to be framed as the "bad guy" or blamed or judged, but what can you realistically do and what are you willing to do?

[silverberry]

Her sister sent me a photo about her blood disorder. In many ways I might be better off asking Chat GPT than here about that, so I won't bore you with the details. It's not great.

Her parents are definitely embarrassed about their own behaviour during her early years as she was an unwanted child. Her original birth certificate was thrown away. Now she has two birthdays, like Queen Elizabeth, an official one on documents and the real one.

If anything, her country gave me more opportunities than my own to earn money, even if the jobs had no future. I was treated with kindness there as opposed to total indifference here. I have applied for around 100 back here in my own country yet all of them have had over 100 applications most likely and I only got shortlisted for one so far.

All of us can find additional emergency funds when we need to by selling things we don't want to sell or borrowing from relatives. It's not ideal. But I am considering it. At the same time, I wonder if being more heartless would be in my own interests, simply by moving on rather than allowing this into my current life when I have already started the divorce process. I do still love her.

[ForeverDad]

A perspective that may be helpful so you can make a decision you're comfortable with (well, less uncomfortable with) is this...

Put yourself in someone else's shoes.  What would that person - relatively neutral and not emotionally conflicted - say?

Another perspective... Imagine yourself 5 or 10 years from now.  Looking back, what would you in the future inform yourself now how to perceive the current dilemma?

These are two ways of looking outside the box, or stated another way, to step outside your current situation - where you had already separated and started divorce and she found herself in this bad situation - and see the entire matter somewhat more objectively.

[silverberry]

Thanks ForeverDad.

They are both really useful tools. If I hadn't already used them both prior to leaving back in 2022 then I would use them now. Perhaps there is scope for an article with ten bulletpoints, each of which can help those in these situations view things from a new perspective. A third one might be to look back on life from a possible deathbed scenario several decades into the future. But does this help or merely heighten the emotions and tighten the apparent responsibilities as they current exist?

Maybe a playlist would be good. The experience of being closely linked to a pwBPD certainly heightens the aesthetic sense, or it does for me anyway. Not just music, but films and books too.

My passion is music so I will start with this:
Suede - High Rising - "stop making me older, start making me new" amidst mellotrons. The coda of personal renewal is astounding here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAWJzrJuRTg
Tindersticks - My Sister - This is the horror story of someone who may have BPD that ends up dead before their time. It sounds like wallpaper music until the last bit. The trumpet part when they announce the funeral is heartbreaking. I remembering being tearful when I heard it when I was 19 years old. And today I listened again and cried as it was too close to my own life and that of my wife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4gE7EEXzs

[Notwendy]

Maybe it would help to compare the assistance with or without being married.

Financially, it would not change much- if you don't have a current job in either place.

Time wise- being with her, you'd be devoting more time to caring for her and have less time to job hunt.

Feelings- you'd be married to someone you have decided you don't want to be married to. Or you'd not be married but still care about her in some ways- which is OK. We can still care about someone and want to help them but not be married to them.

Looking at this from an objective standpoint: feelings or not- you have basic needs- to eat, to have shelter, to be able to support yourself and so your primary need right now is to find employment.

Your wife has emotional needs and also basic ones and for these- for food, for housing, for health care- there is a financial need. If you found employment - you could meet your basic needs and help with hers too.

Regardless of the emotional wishes of your wife and her family- there's an economic aspect to their needs. I know other people who also have gone through the job search process currently. It seems like one has to apply hundreds of times to get even a lead. It's not only you but it does feel discouraging.

[ForeverDad]

A truism we have to acknowledge... There generally never is nor will be a "perfect" time to separate or divorce.

Most here separated/divorced by incidents largely beyond our control.  Those of us who felt obligated* to return found that it was hard to restart leaving again, there was always something to obstruct or delay.

* BPD FOG = Fear, Obligation, Guilt

[silverberry]

Another good experiment is to write the two main options on pieces of paper and pick one at random as if you must follow it. And, mostly importantly, then note how you feel with the one you picked. Do you feel like you wished it was the other one? If so, that says a lot. For my own situation it really is 50-50. I have to actively search for negative comments from my ex that I saved (for 'research') in order to calm my desire to fly out there. Trying to convince myself that she is a bad person to reduce my urge to assist. Finding a reason to care less about someone who I am still married to and who might die this month. The truth is, even at the worst of times she is not a bad person, but BPD is undoubtedly a bad illness. But an illness nonetheless. We don't hold it against our loved ones if they have cancer, the difference with BPD and similar is it reduces our own mental wellbeing in such a significant manner. The older I get, the less I see any scope for free will. Determinism fits better with my experience of reality anyway. Which of course leads to the conclusion that whatever I choose it will have been preordained anyway. But we need the illusion of free will to function.

Financially, I can scrape by if I teach online at below minimum wage a few hours a week. I also have a couple of books coming out soon which I am due to begin promoting. But it would be a struggle out there with a few extra costs and possibly less reliable internet.

My preferred course of action is unrealistic, having my cake and eating it. To be able to go out there for a month to help her recover, which really could be the difference between life and death by the sounds of it, but then come back here and continue getting to know the someone new. I don't think either of them would be satisfied with that scenario though. My wife would demand the divorce be cancelled and push for a return to the 'good old days' and the new person would decide to look elsewhere and avoid all the hassles, understandably.

[Notwendy]

Yes, of course you want it all. I think we all wish for things- but also what is realistic?

What happened to your wife is unfortunate, but how much do you actually know about it? You could be of emotional support but if it truly is "life or death" then she needs medical professionals to manage that. You can't do it. You are not responsible for the medical outcome.

I don't doubt that her situation is a real issue. My BPD mother also has had real issues for which we are empathetic- but she also might embellish them. If I want to know more facts about her situation- I try to speak to the nurses for accurate information.

Of course her family wants you to stay married to her. You are a hope for them.

But you are part of this situation. What about you?

I agree, pwBPD should not have their mental illness "held against them" but being realistic isn't doing that. It's looking at the situation and how much you can manage.

Juggling two possible relationships? This is confusing and you can't be emotionally available to either one of them while you are doing this.

Rather than go with your feelings, which you haven't resolved yet, try to look at facts. Income here (and potential for that) vs income there. Get some medical facts- ask to speak to one of her nurses who will tell you more about what is going on with her. 

[silverberry]

Much to think about here, thanks Notwendy.

I decided to get on with it and be completely open about this to both of them. To my wife... me going back is to help you get better. The marriage is a different topic. And to the new person... an honest explanation of my week so far and asking her thoughts on it. If my wife was against me coming back unless I promised to repair the marriage too then I would struggle to book flights. And if my new acquaintance, who hasnt replied yet, didn't show some sort of compassion then I wouldn't be all that keen on continuing with her anyway. I'm a fairly tolerant guy, and I appreciate that quality in others.

So we will see. Maybe I will book tickets tonight. And maybe not. I feel a bit of a weight lifted from my shoulders as I have shared my thoughts the the people involved. Maybe that was the original problem... trying to shoulder too many conflicting feelings. Be honest, and the answer may emerge.

[Notwendy]

My best advice if you do decide to go visit your wife is to be sure of your boundary on what you are willing and able to do before you go.

Unless you are willing to do everything she and her family ask you to- you will eventually have to say no. You will need to accept that at some point, they will be upset and disappointed at not having what they want. In this sense- unless you are planning to agree to all of it- you can't have your cake and eat it too- be the good guy and have your boundary. You need to choose which one.

As difficult this is for you now, it will be even more difficult to say no to them in person.

With my BPD mother- if she wants me to agree to something- and she knows I won't or likely won't- she does it in increments. Asks me to do a smaller thing, something I won't likely object to- then adds to it, and with each "yes" the next request gets closer to her actual request. Sometimes I don't even know what the actual request is. Eventually, I have to say "no". Saying "no" to her cancels out anything I previously said yes to because those weren't the actual thing she wanted. So, I will be the bad guy if I say no.

My concern with your posts is that you are undecided and wavering and basing your decision on what someone else is doing, rather than what it is you actually have as a boundary. It's good that you were honest with the new person, and looking at her reaction, but this is between you and her and not something to base staying married on.

Know your financial limits- what you can do and what isn't feasible. Take some time to consider- do you want to be married to this person or not- even if you are single- take the new woman out of the picture for this decision. That relationship outcome is unknown at the moment.

[PeteWitsend]

I want to note a couple points I picked up on in your original post, that I think you should pay more attention to. 

...

I did actually go back once for a week for a flying visit. It went fine. I was very worried prior to going but I had some time free, wanted to see her again and needed a couple of documents she had. But equally it didn't make me want to jump back in immediately anyway, and sure enough within a week of me being back home again she got quite aggressive just because I didn't reply to her messages quickly.

So, this goes to the ideas you have of her maybe appreciating the value of your relationship and changing, yet, even knowing how detached you've gotten and close to divorce at this point, she was angry again over something as silly as not responding to her messages quickly enough. 

This is her established behavior.  If it didn't change after a long separation and with the threat of divorce hanging over her head, you shouldn't expect it to change, well, ever, really.

I hoped that she would meet someone new with a more stable job and higher salary that she could be happy with, so we could move on in separate ways. ...

This comment to me, shows that you think her BPD-type complaints have some validity.  They don't.  If she is a person with BPD, she's not going to be happy with her partner, ever, because her issues are going to be unreasonable fears of abandonment and enmeshment that forever keep her agitated and blaming her spouse for her own feelings. 

She's not going to be happy with someone else, just like she's not going to be happy with you if you come back.  It's not in her nature.  You visited her, you made an effort; she didn't. 

Don't go back into this with your eyes closed...