The challenges I'm facing

[Bowman]

I am currently struggling in a profound way, and a way that is new to me. In my life I am typically the fixer for others, I always make time, I always put in everything I got. And, now I find myself in a paralytic bind, entirely arrested by the emotional onslaught that befell me.
My wife and I have been together for five years now. I adore her. She came into my life serendipitously through a mutual friend, and our paths had been crossing prior over the years in unknown ways until we ultimately came together.
I was aware of her diagnosis from the beginning, as what I have come to understand as 'the discard' phenomena happened to me within a few months of us starting to live together. Within a couple months she did return to living with me after a stint at her mothers house and an ex's place. Cohabitation was difficult, many responsibilities lapsed, many fights over innocuous things, but in my adoration I resolved to be her foundation such that recovery could be possible in her tumultuous life. I believe in her and her recovery, and I know that I cannot ever give that up, even after experiencing the most emotionally excruciating events my faith in her is unbroken.
I am writing now as I believe I am traversing a second 'discard' phenomena, and I am at a total loss as to how to work through this and be a committed husband, as that is how I have constructed and conducted my life for our entire time together.
A few key events have occurred recently. Many events have happened over our five years, but i'm not attempting to write a novella here. My wife was on the greatest upswing of her life early this year, it was absolutely beautiful and inspiring, my pride in her could not have swelled any greater. Leading up to that moment, we made a lot of changes. She had been seeing a therapist regularly along with a physician, and was regarded as very stable. We worked to titrate her off an anti-epileptic she had been on for many years that was damaging her gastrointestinal system. We quit nicotine. We moved into our own place by working together, eventually through our concerted efforts we found a home to rent and started truly feeling like we belonged somewhere, something unknown to us considering our lives. She was working at a job she thoroughly loved, attuned to her interests that was community facing, she found friends, community, fulfillment and purpose there. We felt blessed and spoke of our blessings often and how we wanted to keep working hard to keep things going in the direction we were going, it was magnificent. It was giving us such beautiful visions of tomorrow, especially when contrasted with our difficulty to get where we were, both in our individual lives, and the life we had lived together.
The decline began when she lost her job. It was a crushing blow, but I supported her through her decisions that lead to her loss of a job. Whereas I have come to expect her to be confrontational and historically poor at resolving conflict, I believed in her ability to resolve conflict, and I did not have that same faith for the owner of the company she worked for. The owner has a highly dysfunctional personal life romantic, social and otherwise—and I believe that the success of his business is the reason everything is held aloft, and the success of his business hinges primarily on a cornered retail market in a remote place. In saying that my wife and the company owner came to a disagreement on how to create a new process for the store. She relayed to me that he became exasperated and stated he was going to leave for the day, after she offered valid criticisms to the process. She relayed to me that she felt uncomfortable by the reaction and was fine with him leaving, but that she would help the final customers and close the store if he were to do that. So she ultimately left and he stayed. A day later I received a text message from the owner stating that he was reaching out as a friend and that he could not currently deal with my wife with respect to his own mental health. This message felt disingenuous, he wasn’t a person who worked on his own short comings, and it felt like he was taking advantage of the candor my wife had when she divulged her mental health journey and how that may affect her attendance. Additional background to provide would be, my wife was very open and candid about her journey in recovery and needing time off, this was seemingly graciously understood by the owner. Also, my wife having a keen interest in what the store sold was making record sales with respect to her affability and merchandising ability, she was a huge boon, and the owner was aware. She was the community’s darling. My response to the owner’s message was that he should reach out to her and not pass through me to resolve conflict, and that I found it disrespectful that he would circumvent her autonomy. His response back was then to after no contact of any kind and no relaying of the schedule for the following week, was to terminate my wife’s employment. This was of course devastating for her and I and the community we were a part of. The community turned on the owner immediately, and he is likely still suffering from record low sales, the last I checked in with friends who still communicated with him, this was the case. My wife and I survived alright, my income was enough to keep things going and for us to not be wanting, and we of course had our friends and family’s support.
Our focus was shifted for us, and I think we were attempting to adapt gracefully as best we could. My income was enough for us to figure out what our next steps would be, but not enough to coast. It was a few difficult weeks right after her termination, but I had been handling the majority of our expenses, and our favourite movie finally got a U.S. theatrical release; so there were some baffles in the way softening the blow. Eventually her depression set in, fiercely so. Soon she became listless, and I did my best to curtail the worst affects. Kept cannabis use to a low, encouraged her to get out and see friends,  encouraged her to limit social media use, made sure I provided the tools and environment for her to do productive activities outside of the ‘doom-scroll’, talked about what her next serious steps would be in life and how we would go about getting her a higher education. We were doing ok, but something changed a month in and it got suddenly and violently worse. She assaulted me twice in the following month of her termination. She had certainly got in my face, and she had pulled knives on herself and myself in arguments, but I was always able to de-escalate and bring her to baseline—this time, however, was different. She struck my chest and collar, and I’m thin so it bruised me for weeks, she forgot how the bruises got there and asked me what happened and then sobbed in revelation when I cried silently in response. A few days later in another innocuously originating fight, that went on for hours, ending with me face down in bed pleading for her to stop such that I could sleep and work the next day—she struck my back while I was laying down. After these two events she resolved herself to return to therapy and understand herself better, I of course supported her and we worked on a new care plan for her that included a path to a GED and higher education, she was serious and determined, however shaken. We had a renewed plan that incorporated mental health care, but the stresses and responses did not really improve. I was not assaulted again, but the strain of being the sole provider weighed on me heavily and in conjunction with fights occurring every three to five days, I fell very ill. My immune system crashed from lack of sleep and food, such that I got shingles. It took a few days to recover, and I worked through each day remotely, my wife did provide some care and made me meals on most of those days. The next turn was awful, as my wife did not get chicken pox as a child, she got the pox from my shingles as an adult. It was very difficult for her, as she was immuno-compromised from nearly dying from valley fever half a decade earlier. She was reluctant to go to a walk in clinic, or the ER, and wanted to wait for her primary care physician. We did much to her agony, and it was a struggle getting her properly seen such that we could get antivirals prescribed. My persistence and amenability got her what she needed, we got medications that began to alleviate her worse symptoms. I also worked from home for a week and a half and made sure she was prepared home cooked meals as often as she could eat them. It was a very difficult time for me as I was still reeling from the assaults and getting sick as a result of the abuse, but I had to hold that in while I allowed her to recover from what could have been come grievous illness. She eventually recovered, and got back to her typical level of health. She was much affected by being so sick and having the trauma of nearly dying from illness only years prior.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Bowman]

Part 2:
The next few months were punctuated by fights of innocuous origins and attempts at figuring out our future together, with my sister’s wedding at the end of that few month period. My concerns for income began to grow, and I did not feel like we had too many options prior to seeking state assistance for food and grants for school. My wife’s former employer had also lied about terminating her, and we could not collect unemployment despite the multiple cases we opened with the Board of Labor regarding the owner’s practices, we even involved three other former employees who had a similar experience, that was a crushing process. My wife was also denied state assistance for food as somehow I made too much, despite us barely keeping our heads above water—later we learned her identity was stolen and someone had been collecting state benefits. With all these financial woes we began to feel that we may need to actually be divorced to maximize what would be available to us, so we had a better food hold. Neither of us wanted to do that, it caused a lot of fights, we filled out the documents for divorce more than once, she destroyed them multiple times. Simultaneously she had also been threating to divorce me since we had become married, as her threats largely shifted from self harm to separation after we married. It was confusing and trying, but I continued my habit of non-confrontation, de-escalation, and resolution.
About a month out from my sister’s wedding, my Wife’s personality and social/ emotional habits with me shifted dramatically. She had reconnected with an old friend from where we used to live, she also appeared to be drawn into an internet community. It was troublesome as the last time this occurred was when she was mildly famous on a social media platform, and the distortion of that echo chamber of fans precipitated a lot of struggle for her and for us early on in our lives together. She also started drinking most evenings in this month prior to my sister’s wedding, at first it was when were at my brother’s working on projects or watching baseball, then it became habitual at home. She shifted emotionally to becoming aloof and disconnected with brief punctuations of adoration and dedication, usually this cycle correlated with fights. On the weekends we needed to travel to nearby towns to get her clothing and other accoutrement for the upcoming wedding, we lived in a rural spot. This was difficult for her as she had grown accustomed to being in a remote spot with few people, the density of shopping malls stressed her out and we fought each weekend we went out to prepare.
The week prior to us leaving was very difficult for me at my place of work. I was the only member on my support team of five that was on call, so I was working 11 hour shifts alone with no senior staff for the week, and a mass lay off occurred, and I’m the one responsible for offboards. It was hellish, very defeating in many regards, and generally just a lot of work to do solo.  But, I got through it, and my wife kept giving me encouragement that we were about to go on a really nice vacation with my father and his wife, leading up to my sister’s wedding. She expressed enthusiasm and support, it kept me strong. The week we were set to leave, was still difficult for me at my place of work, many issues cascaded as my team was also slashed and affected by the lay off, and at that point on Monday only one other staff member had returned, everyone else was returning from vacation in the following days. That Monday is when everything went into upheaval. Thankfully that day I did get a lunch, and when I got back home I found that there wasn’t any quick food prepared, and it stressed me out, I was struggling to get through my day. I told my wife I felt unsupported and that I was very stressed out, she suggested we go get something to eat, but I had very little money to do so until Friday, I relented and we got something to eat, however what I got soured my stomach and I did not finish what I got. She got upset with what I had said, and I apologized, I did feel like it was uncalled for in that moment. She went to town to enjoy her day, and I returned to work. She walked home, and eventually I got home too. We were both excited to see each other and spend our evening together, we said as much, and started catching up on our respective days. Quickly our conversation soured. I was in the process of trying to explain why I felt like the world wasn’t going to end, because calamity seemingly keeps being averted. Of course, calamity here is the operative word, and I was attempting to define it clearly to make my point, but she kept interrupting me stating why this or that wasn’t calamity as I was trying to define it to make my point, it was weird and really combative. After five to ten minutes of being interrupted, I paused, told her I’m really confused by why I cannot speak enthusiastically about seemingly inconsequential things without being interrupted repeatedly, and that I was going to go outside for fifteen or so minutes and spend time with our cat to reflect. I did so, and I came back inside, and she appeared to be fuming and having not moved whatsoever since I went outside. I really did not want to pick things up again with her in that condition, so I went to go clean the kitchen as I had barely at that day at this point and there were a lot of dishes to get through before I could prepare a meal. In the midst of washing dishes, she asked if I was ignoring her. I responded that I was not ignoring her, but that I really wanted to talk about what upset me, and that at the moment I did not feel like that conversation was going to be productive and I didn’t know how to bring it up aside from being asked just in that moment. Also, I was very hungry and wanted to get dinner going. This then launched us into a huge fight, over what I’m still not certain, I guess you could say because I drew a boundary and stuck to it? The fight went on for hours like many of ours did, with the primary focus being berating and belittling me, and airing all the grievances she had with me and all the mistakes I have made. It calmed down for a  short while, and in the moments of silence and reflection, I prepared food for us, she rejected it, I barely at any due to the discomfort. Shortly after the fight picked up again, over what I still don’t know. It raged until midnight, maybe 1AM, with me now laying down in bed again, hardly having ate all day, needing to sleep for my next work day. She kept laying into me. Then I snapped. I wasn’t mean, I wasn’t demeaning or denigrating, but I did speak to my truth. I told her I felt like she took me for granted, I told her that I felt alone in keeping things going for the both of us, I told her my fears for her future and our future, I told her that her words were hurting me and that our fights were making it hard for me to make progress let a lone tread the water we were in, then I told her the thing that cut her and what I imagine destabilized everything making the next events unfold as they did, I told her that she did not take the relationship seriously. I do truly regret having said that, deeply remorseful, despite all the duress that got it out of me.
After another ten or so minutes of yelling at each other we collapsed in bed, she stated she was sorry and that she was the worst, I told her I was sorry and that I love her, we embraced, and we fell asleep, and morning eventually came. The following day she did not wake up with me in the morning, but I made sure to leave her a message of apology for what I said and how I said it, hoping that we would find resolution in the day. But, we did not, things got so much worse. She became entirely inconsolable, and resolved to not go with me to the wedding, and that she would be leaving for Phoenix to live with her mother prior to my return from the wedding. I could not reach her in any way, and the pattern she was exhibiting was one I was familiar with, with her prior attempts on her life or self-harm. I had access to the house, but she went into a rage every time I attempted to communicate. That Tuesday I left work early to try and go to her and de-escalate. Which is what I have done for years at this point, I have so many missed hours and shifts, bringing her back to baseline—and, this is not a complaint I know she needed this stable foundation to heal and its what I pledged to be for her. My attempts were ultimately futile in that moment. We were set to leave for Saturday, and it was not Tuesday. I called her mother multiple times to get additional insight as to how she had navigated similar scenarios, we tentatively planned for my wife’s return to her mother’s care. To note, my wife and I had discussed her moving back in with her mother so I could live with my brother and support her from afar well enough to put her through school, she of course refused stating she could not live with her mother again, her former abuser. I made multiple attempts at communicating with my wife, but each time was breaking down fantastically. At this point I was concerned that she had not ate, and was pushing everyone away to self-harm. So I leaned on our group of friends I had been making sure I built around us since we moved out to the rural spot we lived in. I asked everyone to either reach out to me or her if they felt they were in a position to help. I got a good response and people started checking in with her. I did overwhelm her and she got upset with me, however most folks I consulted said I did the best thing that I could do. Unfortunately she did not feel differently about me, from what I understand she began to gaslight all of our friends into believe that I have been emotionally abusing her for our entire time together and imprisoning her within our home. The friends who responded the most were folks who really want to be accepted and get attention, and they are very impressionable, I think they did a lot to crystalize my wife’s feelings. I did have one good friend of mine visit her, who used to be a caregiver for severely mentally ill folks, and he relayed to me his conversation of him breaking through a lot of her more deluded claims of our relationship. But she eventually pushed him away, and he had his own life going on. Throughout the remaining week I attempted every day to communicate with her, eventually one of the impressionable friends suggested we do a mediated talk. I desperately wanted resolution, but many misgivings about the scenario. The would be mediators were two people almost a decade younger than me, the male to my knowledge had never been in any serious relationships and potentially has never been in one, the female had just got married and has a history with being confrontational in high school and as a cohabitant according to other friends I have in the area. Those two people also had no knowledge of my wife’s diagnosis, or any meaningful details on her journey to recovery with respect to her mental health. I declined that mediated talk, I offered to go and find someone at my wife’s therapists office to mediate for us, or for us to have different mediators, it made her explosive. I tried and tried until Saturday evening when none of my efforts had any effect. I felt like I needed to prioritize attending my sisters wedding over staying and attending to the madness that unraveled.
The pain kept coming in the worst ways. I now had to spend a week with my father and his wife attending events and dinners planned for four. It was going to be my wife’s and my first vacation together, and the first vacation we had taken as adults. It was devastating in a way I’m still reeling from, still being actively traumatized from. My father was thoughtful and planned places she would like to have gone, and all the while she was sending me messages of nothing but invective, and then demanding I do not contact her when I started responding. Eventually she had some script kiddie scammer start harassing me with texts and phone calls when I responded to her vitriolic messages. Eventually I dropped contact, it was really hard. Attending the wedding was next to impossible, thankfully my brother was there and helped. It was beautiful, but I was barely present, disassociated the whole week.
When I got back, she had left. I had arranged a flight and date with her mother, and made sure one of our friends could get her to the airport. She packed maybe half of her things, she destroyed all of our photos, and every gift she ever gave me is presumably packed or destroyed. I am now a week or so into having returned. She demands that I pack the rest of her things and work with her mother to freight them. I can last about an hour in the corpse of our once beautiful home until I’m sobbing dysfunctionally and have to leave. I haven’t made much progress packing. I visited the courts yesterday to get a road map of what getting a divorce will look like. But, I don’t want any of this. I don’t want to be the one dismantling our lives, I don’t want to be the one ending our union. I really don’t know what to do.
   My resolution currently is to be patient, that is what her mother, her grandmother and the tarot have all told me. My brother and my brothers in friendship have all advised me to remember that I have been the abused and aggrieved party, despite my few mistakes, I have been saintly in the face of her abused, and I have been a passionately dedicated husband who always made the best decisions available. But, I still don’t know how to move forward. I’m barely present at work, I’m sobbing constantly, I haven’t heard anything but cruelty from my wife in weeks. I’m unraveling. I don’t know what I seek to accomplish in sharing my story here, but writing letters to her and writing this has been cathartic, and any positive or encouraging response will be greatly welcomed..

[kells76]

Hello Bowman and welcome to the boards  

This is a good place to do exactly what you did -- get it all out "on paper". So clear that there's a lot of history, and a lot of pain and confusion in the relationship.

It makes sense to me that you'd be feeling unsure about how to proceed. After all -- maybe you feel like you've already given 110%, been supportive, been understanding, etc, so if that didn't "work", what options are left?

My overall thought is that an analogy for your situation is that you are driving on a long road trip, say from New York to Los Angeles across the USA. You are motivated, and so you start driving west as fast as you can. Most issues or roadblocks get solved by continuing to drive quickly with the car pointed west. But you've come to a dead end. You try your tools -- that seemed to "work" in the past -- of pointing the car west and stepping on the gas... but it doesn't work this time. You're stuck at the end of a dead end road and you're not sure what to do now.

The thoughts and approaches that members may share with you here might sound like someone coming up to you in your car and saying "you need to drive north". You'd be like "what are you talking about, to get to my goal we have to drive west". The tools and skills here may sound equally "opposite" to what you think would be effective. But to get out of being stuck, sometimes you have to drive north instead.

If you're open to learning and applying some new, unintuitive, possibly uncomfortable approaches and tools, we can walk with you on your journey. Hard stuff — but that’s what the “Bettering a relationship” board is all about.

…

Sorry if I missed answers these questions earlier —

Is she still living with her mom?

Is she initiating any kind of divorce process?

[Bowman]

Is she still living with her mom?

Is she initiating any kind of divorce process?

She left for Phoenix 8/12 the day I was returning from our planned vacation to my Sister's wedding, and is currently living with her mother in a different state.

She is expecting me to file for divorce, and she is expecting me to continue to pack her things and freight them to her mother's home.

She is hostile to communication and has been since our fight on July 29th prior to my sister's wedding, and it has resulted in her claiming I'm harassing her, that i have been emotionally absuing her, and that i have been isolating and imprisoning her, and usually a vicious rejection of us ever being back together..

[Bowman]

Update:

My wife is now stating that her adopted brother has assaulted her, I cannot say I know that person to be historically violent..

She is now imploring me to send her things such that she can leave her mother's home. To note: my wife has no income, no savings, cannot drive, and it's about two palettes worth of collectibles and clothing I would be sending to her mother's home.

Her mother states she will not stop her from leaving.

[Bowman]

Update 2:

Her mother has confirmed the person she is attempting to run away to is some male in Canada. Who I know she started talking to at most a month or two ago, and likely was the person harassing me over text and phone.

I believe she is being manipulated, I don't know what to do..

[Bowman]

Now concerned that my wife is being coerced out of the country we live in..

[kells76]

She is expecting me to file for divorce, and she is expecting me to continue to pack her things and freight them to her mother's home.

Did she text/call you asking/telling you to file for divorce? Or did that happen some other way?

If I'm tracking with you, you do not want to divorce? Is that correct?

She is hostile to communication and has been since our fight on July 29th prior to my sister's wedding, and it has resulted in her claiming I'm harassing her, that i have been emotionally absuing her, and that i have been isolating and imprisoning her, and usually a vicious rejection of us ever being back together..

Can you fill this out a little more -- when she's hostile to communication, does that mean that when you initiate communication (for example, you send a text), she responds and blows up? Or she doesn't respond?

Or does that mean that you don't initiate communication, but she does take the initiative to communicate all those negative things to you?

In terms of her assertions that you're emotionally abusive etc, does she communicate those things to you directly (sending you an email, leaving you a voicemail, texting, etc), or are you hearing about that secondhand (like, her mom calls you to say "my daughter said XYZ about you")?

Trying to get a better feel for the dynamics right now.

[Bowman]

Did she text/call you asking/telling you to file for divorce? Or did that happen some other way?

If I'm tracking with you, you do not want to divorce? Is that correct?

Can you fill this out a little more -- when she's hostile to communication, does that mean that when you initiate communication (for example, you send a text), she responds and blows up? Or she doesn't respond?

Or does that mean that you don't initiate communication, but she does take the initiative to communicate all those negative things to you?

In terms of her assertions that you're emotionally abusive etc, does she communicate those things to you directly (sending you an email, leaving you a voicemail, texting, etc), or are you hearing about that secondhand (like, her mom calls you to say "my daughter said XYZ about you")?

Trying to get a better feel for the dynamics right now.

We had initially planned on divorcing recently to apply for state benefits as my income was too high for her to receive anything with us as a household. It was not something either of us wanted, we delayed the decision a lot, we filled out the paper work once, it was a point of contention during fights.

I do not want the divorce. And, for what its worth, she didn't either until this fight on 7/29.

If I try to communicate anything beyond subordination to what she asks of me or anything beyond acceptance of her claims of me, she will be quick to anger—going to far as to state I’m harassing her if I try to convey information or my perspective.

She is usually more vicious as a response to me talking to her, when she has to convey information, like her identity being stolen, she is relatively cordial.

Her claims of my abuse are usually made in tandem with statements like; “everybody knows” “all my friends agree” “everyone I have opened up to agrees with me”. Everybody who knows of what’s going on and who knows both of us, feels very sorry for me and having to figure this out and unsure of what to do for me, including my wife’s mother and grandmother. My assumption is that whoever these ‘friends’ are, are folks who do not know me and are likely friends she has only had online and for a short while.

[kells76]

We had initially planned on divorcing recently to apply for state benefits as my income was too high for her to receive anything with us as a household. It was not something either of us wanted, we delayed the decision a lot, we filled out the paper work once, it was a point of contention during fights.

That's right; sorry I forgot.

I do not want the divorce. And, for what its worth, she didn't either until this fight on 7/29.

If you're in the USA, then to the best of my knowledge, she can unilaterally initiate and complete divorce proceedings without your cooperation. So, unless a lawyer in your state tells you otherwise, you don't have to participate in a "not just for benefits" divorce if you do not want to. The flip side is that you can't stop her from divorcing you, but realistically this is the year 2024 and she does not actually need you to do anything.

I wouldn't use that as a bargaining chip -- like, I wouldn't rub her nose in how you don't have to do anything for her to divorce you -- it's more to get educated so that you can be clear about what you will and won't choose to do.

If you don't want to get a divorce, it's OK to say (if there's a moment where this would fit) something like "Babe, divorce is the last thing I want. If you move forward with it, I'd be sad, but it's not something I want."

It gets you out of the "I have to do X for her so she won't be mad at me" position and also gets you out of a position that might be perceived as "controlling" by a pwBPD. You aren't trying to argue/convince her out of it any more; she is free to make her own choice about what seems best to her. You might be saddened by stuff she chooses but you aren't overfunctioning for her -- and her expecting you to file for divorce, and then you doing that, would be overfunctioning. I'm having a thought that overfunctioning behaviors may have been part of the dynamic in the relationship... part of the dynamic that wasn't working.

If I try to communicate anything beyond subordination to what she asks of me or anything beyond acceptance of her claims of me, she will be quick to anger—going to far as to state I’m harassing her if I try to convey information or my perspective.

Stuff is really raw right now -- for her, for you. Lots of wounds right at the surface. That makes it hard for her to hear you and hard for both of you to be effective.

If she has BPD and you don't, then fair or not it's going to be on you to be the "emotional leader" in the relationship, and make and model changes in empathy and listening.

There's a season for everything in relationships. Right now, to be blunt, isn't a season where she is going to be able to hear your perspective. In fact, that may entrench her in her perspective that (and I'll see if I can put it from her point of view) that you don't really listen to her, you don't hear her, you don't care about how she feels, you won't leave her alone, etc. There may be a time down the road where it's a good season for you to convey information and share your perspective... this doesn't feel like that time -- this is crisis time where it's critical to really, really tone down "trying to get her to hear you" and instead pivot to radically hearing her.

Someone has to stop the bleeding -- it might have to be you if she can't/won't.

If she doesn't feel heard -- if she doesn't feel like the emotions behind her words are radically understood -- then she'll likely keep escalating like she's doing.

We can practice on what you've shared she blames you for/accuses you of.

Her: you always harass me and you emotionally abuse me -- everyone I've told agrees.

You: "Oh my gosh, babe, that would feel awful to feel that way."

Because -- and this is key -- if you genuinely thought your spouse was emotionally abusing you, that would be awful, wouldn't it? You might feel hurt, afraid, alone, angry, demeaned, not heard, etc. And if you genuinely felt that, and then you felt like someone else agreed, you would feel validated, right?

None of this is to say "she's right about the facts". It's a really sophisticated, nuanced approach that does take a lot of practice, and is so much more than the binary choice of "yes dear you're always right and I'm subordinate to you and all your claims are factual" or "let me prove to you why what you're saying is incorrect". You don't have to agree with her (that's not validation) and you don't have to argue why she's wrong. It's a middle way. Once she feels more genuinely heard, that can lower the temperature in the conversation enough that at some point, she may have the bandwidth to hear what you need to share. Someone has to lower the temperature first and it's looking like it'll have to be you.

She is usually more vicious as a response to me talking to her, when she has to convey information, like her identity being stolen, she is relatively cordial.

Weirdly, that makes a lot of sense to me. She might be operating from a deficit of feeling understood. Moments where you can genuinely empathize/hear her might inch her back up to a baseline. She may have no bandwidth right now for not feeling understood/heard. It's easy to accidentally invalidate a pwBPD, and trying to share your perspective can be one of those ways.

Her claims of my abuse are usually made in tandem with statements like; “everybody knows” “all my friends agree” “everyone I have opened up to agrees with me”. Everybody who knows of what’s going on and who knows both of us, feels very sorry for me and having to figure this out and unsure of what to do for me, including my wife’s mother and grandmother. My assumption is that whoever these ‘friends’ are, are folks who do not know me and are likely friends she has only had online and for a short while.

Or they might not exist.

What's important isn't necessarily who they are -- it's how you respond to her.

Underneath her words is a person -- your wife -- who is feeling unmanageably overwhelming feelings. If you can take a beat, slow yourself down, put yourself in her shoes, and really get into how it would feel to feel that way, and then share that with her, that can be a turning point.

This is a lot to take in, I get it.

I strongly recommend -- given that you don't want to divorce, and you want to turn things around, and you care about your wife -- that you really dig deep in our validation workshops. The first one is Stop Invalidating Others; we also have validation examples and validation tips and traps.

Take a look at those, see what resonates, and we can keep digging deep here.

How you communicate with your wife -- and especially how you truly hear her feelings -- seems like a top priority right now.

[Bowman]

Underneath her words is a person -- your wife -- who is feeling unmanageably overwhelming feelings. If you can take a beat, slow yourself down, put yourself in her shoes, and really get into how it would feel to feel that way, and then share that with her, that can be a turning point.

Take a look at those, see what resonates, and we can keep digging deep here.

How you communicate with your wife -- and especially how you truly hear her feelings -- seems like a top priority right now.

 
I think the overarching feelings my wife has is that she feels like a failure of a wife, with respect to our fight 7/29, as I had yelled and stated; I feel taken for granted, I feel alone in the relationships logistics, and I feel that she doesn’t take the relationship seriously. This was on the verge of her finally agreeing to go to a family event of mine when she ducked everything for years, also to note; she had not seen her family in years. Another background point; she had been wanting to see her family for months now, she just could not be decisive about going.

I feel like what undergirds her feelings is also that she feels behind in life. She lost a job that she felt really good about, and has been entirely reliant on me. I think she feels an overwhelming pressure to achieve, but diligent and hard work seem to be hard for her to engage consistently. I do think she often felt like I was putting pressure on her to achieve something, as I often encouraged her to find something fulfilling to do with her time, aside from ‘doom scrolling’.

I mention these things as her mother has relayed to me that she is still talking about pursing self studied certifications for tech work, so I want to believe that she is primarily focused on her future, as that was the last focus I had with her after she was struggling with her job loss. Also, a friend of mine had a conversation with her before she left suggesting she remembered that we had discussions of having a long distance relationship involving me putting her through school.

When she was tearing up our lives right before I had to leave for the wedding as a result of our fight, she spoke frequently of feeling like a failure and feeling invalidated. I have always known her to be sensitive, and I have always been aware of her diagnosis of BPD and DID.  I am quite certain it relates to me venting my frustrations, as that must have been crushing to her when she has been working as hard as she has. I feel great remorse, for what I said, I wish I could have acted under the duress, I think this was the first time in 5 years I yelled in a fight.. I know she is hurting so much, and feels so alone and misunderstood, I wish I could convey that I see it all well enough and want to work through it.

Right now the last thing she conveyed to me is that she doesn’t feel safe at home with her mother long term. As, she physically fought with her brother and her mother got involved breaking it up. They fought because she was stating she has plans to leave, and her brother felt it was a bad idea. She is also asking that I hurry up and freight all of her belongings asap, despite the shipping bill being enormous.

I want to give her all my love and understanding, but I’m uncertain what to validate. I have been failing at conveying how I do not regard her as a failure with respect to our relationship since our fight and as I went to my sister’s wedding alone. I have been failing at conveying that a person can only operate under extreme duress for so long before changing from the stress or succumbing to it.

[kells76]

I think the overarching feelings my wife has is that she feels like a failure of a wife, with respect to our fight 7/29, as I had yelled and stated; I feel taken for granted, I feel alone in the relationships logistics, and I feel that she doesn’t take the relationship seriously. This was on the verge of her finally agreeing to go to a family event of mine when she ducked everything for years, also to note; she had not seen her family in years. Another background point; she had been wanting to see her family for months now, she just could not be decisive about going.

I feel like what undergirds her feelings is also that she feels behind in life. She lost a job that she felt really good about, and has been entirely reliant on me. I think she feels an overwhelming pressure to achieve, but diligent and hard work seem to be hard for her to engage consistently. I do think she often felt like I was putting pressure on her to achieve something, as I often encouraged her to find something fulfilling to do with her time, aside from ‘doom scrolling’.

Those are important insights. I agree with you that she may see herself as a failure and she may have felt pressured by you. She is making big moves to get away from you, someone who may have inadvertently reiterated those messages to her even through your best-intentioned actions.

Doing too much for her -- overfunctioning -- even though you meant it in love, may have inadvertently communicated to her:

you can't do it without me
you need me to do it for you
I don't think you can handle it
it's not your healing, it's ours
you don't get space from me
you're not really capable

Even though this article is designed for when the loved one with BPD is a child, parts of it stood out to me as maybe applying to your situation, too, especially this section:

Change is difficult.

Remember that change is difficult to achieve and fraught with fears. Be cautious about suggesting that "great" progress has been made or giving "You can do it" reassurances. Progress evokes fears of abandonment. The families of people with Borderline Personality Disorder can tell countless stories of instances in which their son or daughter went into crisis just as that person was beginning to function better or to take on more responsibility.

The coupling of improvement with a relapse is confusing and frustrating, but has a logic to it. When people make progress - by working, leaving day treatment, helping in the home, diminishing self-destructive behaviors, or living alone- they are becoming more independent. They run the risk that those around them who have been supportive, concerned, and protective will pull away, concluding that their work is done. The supplies of emotional and financial assistance may soon dry up, leaving the person to fend for herself in the world. Thus, they fear abandonment. Their response to the fear is a relapse.

They may not make a conscious decision to relapse, but fear and anxiety can drive them to use old coping methods. Missed days at work; self-mutilation; a suicide attempt; or a bout of overeating, purging or drinking, may be  signs that let everyone around know that the individual remains in distress and needs their help. Such relapses may compel those around her to take responsibility for her through protective measures such as hospitalization. Once hospitalized, she has returned to her most regressed state in which she has no responsibilities while others take care of her. When signs of progress appear, family members can reduce the risk of relapse by not showing too much excitement about the progress and by cautioning the individual to move slowly.

This is why experienced members of a hospital staff tell borderline patients during discharge not that they feel confident about their prospects, but that they know the patient will confront many hard problems ahead. While it is important to acknowledge progress with a pat on the back, it is meanwhile necessary to convey understanding that progress is very difficult to achieve. It does not mean that the person has overcome her emotional struggles. You can do this by avoiding statements such as, "You’ve made great progress," or, "I’m so impressed with the change in you." Such messages imply that you think they are well or over their prior problems. Even statements of reassurance such as, "That wasn’t so hard," or, "I knew you could do it," suggest that you minimize their struggle. A message such as, "Your progress shows real effort. You’ve worked hard. I’m pleased that you were able to do it, but I’m worried that this is all too stressful for you," can be more empathic and less risky.

and this:

Keep things cool and calm.

Appreciation is normal. Tone it down. Disagreement is normal. Tone it down, too.

This guideline is a reminder of the central message of our educational program. The person with BPD is handicapped in his ability to tolerate stress in relationships (i.e., rejection, criticism, disagreements) and can, therefore, benefit from a cool, calm home environment.

...

In terms of what to validate (again, remind me -- she is texting you?):

what would it be like, if next time she communicates something like "you always controlled me and my friends agree", you were able to validate the negative feelings behind those words... and leave it there, with no "but...." after it?

Her: "you were like a jailer! I could never do want I wanted"

You: "Oh wow... that would feel so crushing."

without any "but I never meant that" or "but I always said you could do whatever you wanted" or "but you said you wanted to stay home" ?

Too much positivity can accidentally leave some people feeling invalidated, like they can't mess up, regress, fail, or not be healing.

Could she be wanting you to just acknowledge how bad the bad feelings are, without anything else?

[Bowman]

Doing too much for her -- overfunctioning -- even though you meant it in love, may have inadvertently communicated to her:

...

In terms of what to validate (again, remind me -- she is texting you?):

what would it be like, if next time she communicates something like "you always controlled me and my friends agree", you were able to validate the negative feelings behind those words... and leave it there, with no "but...." after it?

Her: "you were like a jailer! I could never do want I wanted"

Too much positivity can accidentally leave some people feeling invalidated, like they can't mess up, regress, fail, or not be healing.

Could she be wanting you to just acknowledge how bad the bad feelings are, without anything else?

With respect to overfunctioning, would it be relevant to address this by validating her autonomy to have got down to phoenix on plane? Affirmations with respect to displays of autonomy?

She has texted me information recently about her identity being stolen, and her having fought with her brother, and that her relaying her identity being stolen is not a way for me to patch things up. The last meaningful exchange was me telling her that I know how hard she works everyday and that I have seen her be consistent, she then replied 'why are you doing this you hurt me so badly'. Prior to that was her relaying information about her having left and that she left things unpacked, and making sure i can feed the cats. Prior to that it was my fruitless attempts to explain how I felt with assurances that I loved her, to her replying horrible things and accusations of being a jailer, being a psychopath, being a child, being abusive and neglectful, that she hates me, that I have lost all face in front of everyone. Prior to that I was asking friends to check on her while I was out of town, to make sure someone could take her grocery shopping, she accused me of stalking and harassing her. Called me a snake and that I was upsetting everyone. Many things she brought up from our recent and distant past, many greivances. It was what she was doing the evening the argument was happening, hours of airing greivances and denigration, but drawn out slowly over text over many days.

I have wanted to respond to her statement regarding her not feeling safe and that her brother assaulted her, her last message:
"I don't mean to rush you but things are already going south here; I was physically assaulted by Shay when he was blackout drunk so I'd appreciate having my stuff ASAP so I can get out of here. I'm not safe here long term and have things lined up to get me out. I just need my stuff. Thanks for understanding"

me: "it must be stressful feeling unsafe and needing to hurry, i'm sure its has been difficult adjusting to living with different people suddenly"

I'm not sure how to address sending her things, or telling her I do not want to file the divorce, because of costs finacial and emotional, but its among the first few things that she will inquire about if not addressed. Also to note: she doesn't send a barrage of messages and I haven't been responsive, and she doesn't follow up with additional texts, which would be the usual response to unresponsiveness.

[Bowman]

Update:

I have spoken with her mother to get the details on the altercation and how it resolved.

My wife's brother was expressing to her that he did not think she should leave for Canada. My wife got into a physical altercation with him over this. I do not know her brother to be physically violent, but my wife has a history of it. My wife's mother broke up the altercation, and was also thrown to the ground.

My wife's mother reports that my wife and her brother have talked through the scenario, and made up. My wife's mother also expressed surprise in how quickly and cleanly the resolution played out. I do think.. that I have helped her develop resolution skills, hearing of that was something of a salve; knowing that five years ago she probably would not have been able to do that, and that I may have helped with her recovery.. small things, silver linings..

My wife also relayed to her mother that she did not intend on leaving for Canada soon, but in six to nine months, after she has completed coursework.

[Bowman]

Update:

I took a leap of faith in my ability to reach her and sent the following:
"I am concerned for your safety and well-being, it must be stressful feeling unsafe and needing to hurry, I'm sure it's been difficult adjusting to living with different people suddenly. I'm certain with time you can speak to your brother and find resolution."

She responded (paraphrashing):
she attempted to talk to her brother on monday, and is still waiting
that she is very stressed but not drinking or doing drugs to cope, she stated "since that night" referring to 7/29
that she hasn't hurt herself, nor had urges
that she is coping through art meditation, and that she escalated her identity theft to a federal level
that she doesn't know what to do except keep going and wait for her stuff
that she is doing her best to take care of herself as an individual
that she is doing alright and has been finding strength in handling things better than she ever has
she also stated that she hopes I have been taking care of myself and eating (she triggered my ED last time she left five years ago, I lost a lot of weight, and yes I am currently struggling with it again)

So.. I'm very proud of her, crying as I read this at first, and crying as I re-wrote this. I'm feeling more positive, this is the first kindness I have had from her since 7/29..

[Bowman]

Update:

Perhaps I was impetuous, I followed up with the following message, to only encounter silence. I don't know how to get our dialogue started..

"I am certain you attempted to speak to your brother, and I feel like your attempts will not be in vain, be patient.

You are showing awareness of yourself, being diligent with respect to yourself. I am glad you are able to exercise the control that you have. You are coping in a healthy way with art and meditation. It is good to hear you feel good about yourself, and that you believe in yourself."

[kells76]

The positive communication yesterday must have felt good -- I'm glad the two of you had that. That could certainly make not getting a reply feel pretty bad.

These dynamics have had years to grow... they won't "heal" overnight.

This is big picture stuff. Hanging a lot of feelings on one "bad" or one "good" interaction is a one way ticket back on the roller coaster. It's the overall trajectory that's going to matter, not one point on the line.

Less is going to be more here, is my sense. Slow it down, less words from you, less words about you, more openness to/curiosity about her.

I can share my intuition about this:

"I am certain you attempted to speak to your brother, and I feel like your attempts will not be in vain, be patient.

You are showing awareness of yourself, being diligent with respect to yourself. I am glad you are able to exercise the control that you have. You are coping in a healthy way with art and meditation. It is good to hear you feel good about yourself, and that you believe in yourself."

I hear you wanting to be supportive and loving. I'm wondering if that was the same approach you've used before.

To me, much of it would land as very you-focused, even though that may not have been your intention.

It's lots of words, and a lot of them are about you and your perspective, and some of them are telling them how you think she felt.

That may be accidentally invalidating. She may have opened that text and felt -- well, he's not really interested in how I'm feeling, because it's about him and how he feels and what his perspective is on why I did what I did.

Her going silent may be her doing the best she can with feeling unheard and unseen. She isn't lashing out, but might be hurt. It may take a bit for her to return to a functional baseline.

I do want to point out that your last sentence was actually pretty validating: that it's good to hear she felt good about herself. That was you noticing something she shared, and validating the valid, and leaving it there. Sometimes keeping it short and sweet (i.e., sending only that last sentence, nothing else) allows the pwBPD to feel like there's space for them and their feelings, too.

...

In the past, when she's "gone silent" or not replied to you, how long has it usually taken for her to reach out again?

Maybe follow her lead on this one. She may be coming off of feeling really engulfed and she has made big moves to get space. Too many words can also be too much/overwhelming. She has (hyperbolically) said you've been harassing her. That's not very skillful language -- but there's a feeling behind the words.

What would it be like to be patient and see when she reaches out again? Let her set the pace?

...

I really feel for you -- I know you want to preserve your marriage, and you care for your wife. This is hard and unintuitive stuff.

[kells76]

Also, the thought just hit -- are there "neutral" things that the two of you talk about, that are low-key and don't have strings attached? Does she ask how the cats are doing, for example, and are the cats a neutral topic?

Rebuilding more neutral-to-positive and low-intensity interactions, vs overwhelming/intense/negative/"about emotions" interactions, can be important.

[Bowman]

Also, the thought just hit -- are there "neutral" things that the two of you talk about, that are low-key and don't have strings attached? Does she ask how the cats are doing, for example, and are the cats a neutral topic?

Rebuilding more neutral-to-positive and low-intensity interactions, vs overwhelming/intense/negative/"about emotions" interactions, can be important.

Thank you for all you insight and attention Kells, you gaze is keen and your intuition more so. Honestly, this thread is one of the few things providing me a means towards sanity and not succumbing to abject malaise.

My intuition on her internal landscape right now is that she is becoming more aware of where she is, but less in touch of why she is there. There seems to be a strange and uncertain calmness to her tone now, and she specifically asked me to take care of myself, with the knowledge that her absence is difficult for me.

I don't want to double text at this point, but I did not answer her questions with respect to how I am caring for myself. Which is that I'm struggling profoundly and can only cry when I am at home being expected to pack. And, I do want to ask her about the identity theft, and I want to tell her about our friend being in the hospital, and about how are cats are wandering the house yowling in her absence and I would want to talk about a myriad of things, but I don't want to come off diverting attention from packing or the divorce, nor do I want to add the pressure of; 'your absence and actions are hurting me'--that is, until I can get how she feels to the surface, such that I can validate those feelings and get her to speak on her feelings.

In the past, when she's "gone silent" or not replied to you, how long has it usually taken for her to reach out again?

What would it be like to be patient and see when she reaches out again? Let her set the pace?

Usually when she has gone silent, she blocks me on all platforms. Currently i'm blocked on facebook, and her primary instagram. However she has many secondary instagram accounts, for art, memes, etc, and she hasn't blocked me on those. Also, she typically isn't one to be silent, but then again, we haven't been apart for more than a day in about five years, this is our longest distance physically and socially by an enormous margin. Our typical communication pattern has been incessance.

I have been exceedingly patient, and I am doing my best to remain so. Positive progress makes me want to be impetuous and sally forth.. My fear is that she will only start the dialogue by inquiring about her things or the divorce, and that she will only initiate contact after days of silence. We were set to have a mediated conversation prior to me leaving that I turned down due to the would be mediators immaturity, I desperately want to have a long constructed mediated talk, I feel so foolish for not taking that opportunity..

I want to move at her pace, she has done so brilliantly in our time together when she gets to move at her pace. And, in the short time she has been at her Mother's her mother remarked on how she has changed. Patience in the realm of heartache is foreign to me, despite being saintly in the face of adversity.

[Bowman]

Update:

I couldn't stop ruminating, so I pushed the conversation along again:

me: "What have you found through your meditations that has been a solace or a strength?"

her: "Its kind of difficult talking to you like this cause I feel like you're just getting a foot in the door and desperate to talk to me. I'm under duress and can't take this."

me: "you are under a lot of stress, and I do want to hear from you"

her: "I don't want to talk to you like htis because if I felt safe doing that I wouldn't have signed an annulment and left states. Can ANYONE treat me like a person and respect my boundaries? I knew putting you in contact with my mom would make everything worse and emolden you to shackle yourself to me like a ball and chain. If you care like you say you do just stop"

...Well I feel foolish, but I don't know that things would have been different waiting..

[kells76]

What do you think she really, really wants you to know right now?

[Bowman]

What do you think she really, really wants you to know right now?

Primarily that she needs space, and that she feels invalidated.

[Bowman]

I stopped after:

me: "It is difficult to not feel safe to talk, and to feel like your boundaries are not respected"

her: "Like you're doing right now. You're such a PLEASE READing idiot"

She pushed me away so hard in the first moment, I feel like I haven't been able to say anything except compliances to demand.. I don't really know how to feel, it felt like she had some positive sentiment to me for a moment, some kind of internal struggle with how she felt about me.

I think she mostly wants space, I just cannot accept that she doesn't want our relationship anymore. She has written me so many suicide letters with accompanying letters of reflection, so many thank yous for helping stop and change her..

I want to fight to the death to stay in her corner, I don't know what to do when she makes it so I can't be hers..

[kells76]

What do you think she really, really wants you to know right now?

Primarily that she needs space, and that she feels invalidated.

I agree.

...

Have you ever taken an adult relational attachment style assessment?

[Bowman]

I agree. Have you ever taken an adult relational attachment style assessment?

I have not.

[Bowman]

I am also struggling with the impetuousness, as I feel compelled to tell her I am not going through with filing the divorce, and that whatever she had tried to get me to do in a day at the courts as she was leaving was not the correct process, as I came to learn after my meeting with a court facilitator.

Very conflicted..

[kells76]

Though there is some debate over the validity of attachment style research, taking a quiz/assessment can still give you helpful insight into how you relate to others.

This is a good starting point: https://www.verywellmind.com/attachment-style-quiz-7562460

I got "anxious-ambivalent" which based on my FOO (family of origin) dynamics and early memories, makes sense.

Understanding what drives you in your relationship with your W may help you find more effective approaches.

...

I also want to recommend checking out our workshop on Distress Tolerance Skills. It's good that you recognize your impulses can sometimes take over. Finding alternatives may help preserve your relationship. Let us know what in that workshop stands out to your or resonates with you.