Infidelity and cheating: Should I tell the kids and how

[awakened23]

Seeking some advice from those who have gone through divorce with a BPD partner where one of the reasons to exit the relationship was infidelity.

Did you tell the kids about the infidelity? At what point in the process and how did you explain your decision to split?

I am in a similar situation and keep thinking what conversation I will have with the kids when I first tell them my decision and reasons? one kid is an adult over 20 and the other is a teenager.

All that I have read on the subject seems to suggest that it is best not to hide the reason from the kids and tell them as a matter of fact that "cheating" was one of the reason and against your own core values, without going into too much detail of how when or with whom.

However I am not sure how telling the kids will fit with the BPD dynamic and if it will vitiate the divorce process further.

Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated.

[PearlsBefore]

She'll tell the Court you're alienating the children by telling these "falsehoods" about her and the Court won't even care if they're true or not. It is sufficient to say "she lost my trust" and your children are old enough to figure it out themselves as much as is necessary.

[ForeverDad]

Most states in the US have "no fault" divorce options, either spouse can divorce, even with no reasons given.  However, some "fault" claims can include infidelity.  There are nuances in each state to consider so verify with your family law attorney what your state process and limits are.  Proof would be required as well.

The children are grown or nearly grown.  It is doubtful that news of her infidelity will matter much to the family court regarding custody and parenting.  Teens, especially once they get a license and access to a vehicle, can "vote with their feet".

"Should you tell the kids?" is a different matter.  In this case they're older.  So this approach makes sense...

It is sufficient to say "she lost my trust" and your children are old enough to figure it out themselves as much as is necessary.

Too, the result can be unexpected, depending how the children feel about their relationship with each parent.

When my relative was getting married again, I (as the family genealogist) dropped by the courthouse to look at the licenses.  To my surprise, I saw his ex had gone the same day for her third marriage license.  When I shared that with him, he didn't know she had a hidden marriage in between his marriage and this next one.  But his kids knew, had been sworn to secrecy for financial reasons, and they asked what my ulterior reason was, "Why did FD do this?"  I never would have expected I had created an incident!

[EyesUp]

@OP,

You've got good advice here, it boils down to:

- will telling the kids hurt or help your divorce proceedings?  is infidelity a legal factor in your state? these are separate points, because even if you're in a no-fault state and pursuing a no-fault divorce, you may have some leverage in negotiation if you agree to keep your stbx's secret - with the kids, and with the community at large, and also with her AP...

- will telling the kids hurt or help your kids to process the divorce?  conventional wisdom suggests:  always act in the best interest of the kids, and avoid drawing the kids into inter-parental conflict.

I'm basically restating the advice you've already received.

Also, to answer your first Q:  yes, I've been through it, and no, I did not tell the kids.

Why?  My ex's AP is/was the father of my youngest daughter's classmate.  We live in a small town.  My ex agreed to settle so we never went before a judge except to formalize the divorce decree - I had already resolved to keep the affair to myself to protect my kid (obviously a very different age than yours), however this had a secondary benefit:  My ex didn't know what might be revealed if the divorce proceeded to a hearing... 

The point is:  there may be multiple reasons why it's in your best interest to keep things to yourself.

You may feel some compulsion to expose your ex... that's something to work on in therapy or in an anonymous divorce group, or to explore here.  Maybe that's what this is thread is about?

Sorry if I missed this - Do you know who the AP is?  Is the affair still going on?   Is the AP someone your stbx is likely to remain involved with?  Does this person know your kids, or is that a possibility in the future?

Hang in there.

[Notwendy]

I don't have advice but from the perspective of a teen/young adult. If my parents had divorced then, I wouldn't have needed more of an explanation. The kids aren't removed from the situation all this time. Whether they know your wife cheated or not- they've already seen/heard/ enough to realize it's a difficult relationship.

In my own situation, it was BPD mother who confided in me- it was triangulation, and I wouldn't have wanted my father to do that. Whether you intend it or not- it puts you as the one who is the victim- good guy- Mom "cheated on me" and your wife as the wrong one. Your marriage involved both of you. Your kids, by now, already have their own experiences with each of you.

I don't even know if "she lost my trust" is the best way to put it. It still makes it about her. You are the one who is deciding on divorce- so "we have difficulties that I am not able to resolve" and "no matter what, I am your father and I love you" and ask if they have questions. If they ask if mom is cheating, then they already know and probably an answer like "this is between me and your mother" is a neutral way of putting it.

Just my 2cents. I didn't want to hear about my parents' private info- and possibly your kids don't want to either.

[GaGrl]

My DH's situation might have been worse-case scenario. His uBPD/NPD the twice was blatantly and consistently unfaithful, from about 18 months the into their marriage, throughout his Army career. The children were exposed to it at a young age, not really understanding much of what was going on. The 12-yeR-old daughter walked in on her mother and "good friend" having it on the living room floor, after which she wrote a heartbreaking g letter to her father. By the time they were teens, all three had asked their father why he didn't divorce her.

He never discussed with the children any of the conversations he had with their mother about her affairs and behaviors...still not sure how invalidating that was.

[PeteWitsend]

... By the time they were teens, all three had asked their father why he didn't divorce her.

He never discussed with the children any of the conversations he had with their mother about her affairs and behaviors...still not sure how invalidating that was.

This is a good point: we may assume all kids want their parents to stay together, and to this end will turn a blind eye to problems in their parents' relationship, but it's often not true.  It's very frustrating for kids to see the parent they trust and respect  continue to take it, and - maybe even worse than that - essentially invalidate their kids' opinions, or take the cheating spouse's side against the kids.  That's what that parent does when the kids are like "END THIS CHARADE ALREADY!" and the mom or dad is like "no, you're out of line here, and I won't talk about this with you."  these are family issues, not just marital issues, and after a certain age, the kids have as much of say in the family as the parents.

Beyond that, this is my thinking:

- If kids are too young, say nothing unless forced to by the pwBPD's actions.  Keep it "G rated."

- If kids are old enough to understand infidelity, tell them, but for heaven's sake, do not include graphic details, even if they are known.  PG-13 at the most.

- Keep any objective evidence of the infidelity; don't volunteer it to the kids, but mention it's there.  They probably won't want to see it, but it takes this out of the realm of he said / she said, and its existence provides some closure in a way, for kids who want to understand what happened. 

Here's why I say tell them:

pwBPD are notorious for projection; they may very well tell the kids that their behavior all these years - however odious it may have been - was justified because YOU cheated on THEM.

What's a better position to be in?  Telling the kids pro-actively because you respect them and they deserve to know why their family foundation ended the way it did?

Or scrambling to deny it when confronted unexpectedly, and telling the kids your ex was actually the one who cheated,  not you? 

So short answer: yes, tell them.

[PeteWitsend]

I don't think telling kids the truth - no matter how serious of a matter it may be - is parental alienation either. 

It's wild to think that, given how awful pwBPD behave toward everyone close to them, it's the non-disordered parent telling the kids about the pwBPD's infidelity that does it.

Maybe in a "this was the straw that broke the camel's back" sense, but pwBPD do more than enough on their own to alienate them from their loved ones, including their own kids. 

[kells76]

It could be helpful for you and your kids to meet with a family therapist.

You could start with an appointment between just you and the FT to get a feel for how the FT works. Then meet with all of you, then maybe the next session is just you solo and you can let the FT know that you're divorcing because of your spouse's infidelity, there's definite proof, and because your spouse tends to blame and distort, you're concerned about what the kids are going to hear from her and trying to figure out the most loving way to share with your kids why the divorce is happening. Then, after getting feedback from the FT, meet again with you plus kids plus FT.

Once the FT gets a feel for what your kids are like and how you and the kids relate with each other, you may get some tailored advice for your specific situation.

It may be the case that the most loving thing to do for your kids is to disclose; or, the most loving thing may be another approach. It seems like a wise move to get neutral third party feedback on your options. Our feelings of hurt and betrayal can "drive the car" of our emotions in ways that accidentally hurt those around us, so getting that external perspective seems like a winning move.

...

In my H's case, while he wasn't aware of any overt or "classic" cheating, his then-wife had admitted to him that she had a thing for his then-best friend. And, the then-best friend "helped" H and ex during their marital troubles... then took exW out to dinner before the divorce was final... then got engaged to her ~3 months after the divorce... then they got married ~3 months after getting engaged.

H did not talk to the kids about that stuff (granted the kids were ~6 & 4 at the time of the divorce). Since then, ex-best friend got a new best friend, "helped" him when his marriage was on the rocks, "helped" the wife during the divorce, and is now dating the wife (but still on paper married to H's kids' mom). When H goes to Mom's house in the morning to pick up SD16 to take her to school, Mom and Stepdad are often out front arguing. Yes, it's a mess.

When SD18 was disclosing some stuff to H about what she noticed, H did finally tell her "that's just kind of what your stepdad does". She seemed surprised.

Each family dynamic is different, and the kids' ages are certainly a factor. SD18 may be ready to hear some more stuff, but SD16 likely is not yet (if ever).

...

Also, have you considered just asking your kids "how much do you want to know about why Mom and I are divorcing?"

They may be old enough to be able to articulate exactly how much they want to hear.

You can also let them know that they might hear lots of different perspectives about why it's happening, and they can always come to you with questions and for clarification.

[ForeverDad]

pwBPD are notorious for projection; they may very well tell the kids that their behavior all these years - however odious it may have been - was justified because YOU cheated on THEM.

Also, have you considered just asking your kids "how much do you want to know about why Mom and I are divorcing?"

They may be old enough to be able to articulate exactly how much they want to hear.

You can also let them know that they might hear lots of different perspectives about why it's happening, and they can always come to you with questions and for clarification.

All good points.  Setting aside the legal and financial reasons to include infidelity matters, there is another consideration... "the walls have ears".  Could the children already know about the other relationship and infidelity, even though you don't know that they know?

[Notwendy]

All good points.  Setting aside the legal and financial reasons to include infidelity matters, there is another consideration... "the walls have ears".  Could the children already know about the other relationship and infidelity, even though you don't know that they know?

Probably. I don't know if there was any cheating and I don't really want to know but we also knew more than we'd have wanted to discuss.

But even without any knowlege of cheating- we kids saw enough to know that my parents' marriage was very difficult.

What feels invalidating is negating what the kids have seen and know or diminishing it. IMHO, by teens/young adulthood-we didn't need to know this kind of personal information to know that something is going on that is different. We'd been to friends' houses - their mothers didn't act like ours did.

This is a difficult marriage that may end in divorce. This is enough reasons to have the kids in counseling. A counselor is a neutral third party and this avoids triangulation. The counselor would also know how to explain questions to the kids.

[awakened23]

Thank you all of your kind and thoughtful messages.

I have decided to not tell the kids directly but let them know that break down of trust was one of the core reasons for me to initiate divorce.

I will also let them know that - "they might hear lots of different perspectives about why it's happening, and they can always come to you with questions and for clarification." as kells76 suggested.

If either of them seek to know further details I will simply let them know she had a weird friendship with xxx and I did not approve of it and leave it at that.

[Notwendy]

One of the things we practiced in CODA group was to phrase things in "I" form rather than "you" or "she did". It's heard differently- it involves ownership of your decisions. This is about your boundaries.

This is your boundary: to you, infidelity is not acceptable in a marriage. Emotional and verbal abuse is not acceptable in a marriage. We can't control someone else's behavior- if they violate our boundaries- then we act accordingly.

So, I encourage you to put what you say to your kids in terms of "I". Your kids learn from what you do as well as what you say. Saying "she betrayed my trust" blames her and "there are trust issues" makes it uncertain. "I have lost trust" or "I see there are trust issues"  is owning it. I also like the "come to me if you have questions". Chances are- they won't ask more. They probably already know enough. As to the affair and who- say, this is very personal information.

My best guess is that they already know. They will indicate if they want to know more. They may even surprise you by saying they knew it.

[ramiroelliot]

No, if both parties agree, the divorce process will proceed normally or if the divorce is one-sided, do you have evidence of adultery?