Dying on This Hill, but Can't Get Past Circular Argument

[HurtAndTired]

Hi all,

In my most recent post I related that my dBPDw and I have recently gone through a conflict that ended up with me sleeping in the guestroom for my own safety. In summary she got drunk and flipped out at me for spending three hours working on a term paper for grad school. Only a day or two later I found out that two close friends had died in the past year, but no one was able to contact me about it at the time due to my long-term withdrawal from friends and social media (me trying to avoid triggering her jealous rages). Both friends died deaths of despair. One from complications of alcoholism and the other committed suicide. Both of these friends had been roommates during college and I was close with not only them but their families. They were more like family than friends.

Needless to say, I was devastated. However, when I tried to express my sadness to my wife I got zero empathy. She turned the conversation back to her and she got angry at me for being sad about people who I hadn't talked to for years (I self-isolated to cover up her DV of me and ongoing verbal/emotional abuse). She also was furious that I was mourning them instead of mourning the child we lost to miscarriage five years ago (I have and still do mourn that loss). Because of her callous reaction to my loss, I decided that I would continue to stay in the guest room. I do not feel like pretending everything is ok when I am hurting and she won't give me one word of comfort. This is a pretty basic spousal function and would normally be extended even to co-workers, or even complete strangers (i.e. I am so sorry for your loss, etc.).

To make matters even worse, just this past weekend she had an old friend call her up out of the blue at around 8 PM. Apparently this friend had just gone through a breakup of a long-term relationship. My wife was drinking at the time and left the room where we were watching TV with our son to concentrate on comforting her friend. Our S3 has a bedtime of 8:30 and she was still on the phone (and still drinking) so I went ahead and got our son's teeth brushed and started going through his bedtime routine. When it came time to put him to bed though, he refused saying he wanted to wait for Mommy. I entertained him and cuddled for another half-hour, while my wife was still on the phone (and still drinking). At this point S3 was getting visibly cranky and upset, so we went downstairs to ask my wife to please come up and give him a goodnight kiss. I kindly suggested that she could call her friend back as soon as S3 was in bed. She impatiently said she would be just another few minutes and shooed us off. She did not come upstairs to give him his goodnight kiss until 9:51. I was incensed, but did not show it. I just went to the guest room and went to bed. Later on she came into the guest room, visibly drunk. She made a half-hearted apology saying "I know you are sad about your friend and you have been stressed with school, but you're ignoring me and that's not ok." She laid down on the bed next to me and started physically indicating that she wanted sex. I have a rule about not engaging with her sexually if she is drunk and her half-hearted apology was only said to get what she wanted - sex. I told her that I was tired and that we could talk about it when she hadn't been drinking. She blew up and the whole thing continued on into the next week.

I am still stressed out about my final papers for grad school, and am still sad about my friends passing in such sad and awful ways (and feeling guilty about not being able to attend the funerals).  Yesterday she sent me some passive aggressive texts about me staying in the guest room which I did not respond to (I have a rule about not responding to angry texts as it never solves anything). I have been keeping my interactions with her positive/neutral over the past several weeks and have not been bringing up the points of contention (her yelling at me, drinking excessively, and complete lack of empathy) hoping for her to reset and be in a place where we can have a productive discussion about what I find to be unacceptable behavior. Last night when she got home, I could see that she was upset, but made dinner anyway and tried to remain positive/neutral and watch some TV with her and S3 while we ate. She spent the first 20 minutes of that time making snide remarks about me not responding to her texts, so I just paused the TV and said "I didn't respond to your texts because I have told you that I will not respond to negative texts and argue with you that way. However, if you want to talk about me sleeping in the guest room, let's talk about it."

She expressed that she was upset with me because she felt like we were living like roommates and let out a lot of venom (in front of S3). I had to ask her to try to not swear and watch her tone of voice in front of S3 several times. I kept my cool, but it was hard. I tried to practice SET, but S3 was getting upset and kept saying "Mommy be nice!" I told her that I was sleeping in the guest room because I was hurt that she didn't seem to care about my friends passing. I said that she spent nearly two hours consoling her friend on the phone about a breakup, which is a good thing to do for a friend, but that I needed to be consoled too. "If you can do that for a friend, shouldn't I be able to count on you to do that same thing for me as your husband?" At this point she completely lost it. She started swearing, flipping me off, her face was a distorted mask of rage and she stalked off upstairs leaving me with S3. He asked me if I was ok. I told him "Daddy is just sad because he lost some old friends, but he will be ok. I love you and everything will be alright." I put S3 to bed and went to the guest room, again.

This morning she burst into the guest room as I was getting up and told me how angry she was at me because I got up twice during the night to go to the bathroom, which kept her awake. I again told her that I just want her to be nice to me and show me at least some of the same empathy that she showed her friend the other day. Instead of just saying that she was sorry that I was hurting, she started running through the litany of everything that I have ever done to "wrong her." I don't participate in circular arguments, so I disengaged and excused myself from the conversation. I don't know how this ended up being the hill that we have both chosen to die on, but it is. She cannot give me any consolation over the loss of my friends, and I cannot move on and act as if everything is normal until she does. We are at a standstill.

I know that BPD makes everything more complicated and difficult. I know that it is a disorder that effects interpersonal relationships. I know all of the things, but I still cannot understand how what I am asking for is to big of an ask from even an emotionally crippled person. I am just asking for a sincere acknowledgement of my loss (a sober one) and perhaps an apology for not being more forthcoming with this basic human courtesy. She is just further digging in her heels though. She has acknowledged her lack of empathy in a roundabout way, but blames it on her antidepressant. I know that blunted feelings are a side effect of antidepressants, but this is just an excuse. I just watched her (at least pretend) to care about her friend's breakup and console her for two hours. I didn't go through a breakup, I had two people close to me die. If she can fake it for her friend for two hours, she can fake it for me for five minutes. This feels important to me to get straightened out. I have two elderly parents and God  forbid anything should happen to them, I am seeing that she will be of zero comfort to me and might even make me feel worse (she has blamed my friends for being a drunk - death from pancreatitis, and a coward - death from suicide).

I don't know what to do. I will continue to hold my position because it feels like I am not being true to my core values if I don't, but I am getting increasingly uncomfortable with how making this stand is increasing my wife's dysregulation. I see my therapist in two days and will go over this with her, but need advice now. Do I continue to remain positive/neutral but also not give in until she acquiesces and gives me a sober "I'm sorry your friends died, I'm sorry that you're hurting, etc." or do I give it up as a lost cause? If it is a lost cause, do I continue to stay in the guest room? I cannot stomach asking to move back into the master bedroom when it is her who has driven me out, nor can I imagine being intimate with someone who cares so little about my feelings. Sex for her is just a physical act that makes her feel better...a dopamine hit, but for me it needs to be based on wanting to be with a person and being able to be vulnerable. You know, actual intimacy?

I have scheduled a lunch this weekend while she is working with an old friend who knows both of my friends who died. I will be able to talk about things openly with him and grieve together. It is also a part of me re-establishing my close friendships that I have let whither. I have been friends with this guy for over 30 years, so I know he will be supportive, but I just can't get over my wife being so cold and heartless about this.

Any advice would be appreciated.

HurtAndTired

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi HurtAndTired;

The death of your friends at relatively young ages is incredibly painful news to receive. I know what you mean about having college friends who are more like family, and that would be such a heavy blow. It's a lot to handle when you're trying to make it through school, on top of everything else.

I want to make sure I'm tracking with the situation, so apologies if these are obvious questions -- getting clarity for myself.

dBPDw and I have recently gone through a conflict that ended up with me sleeping in the guestroom for my own safety. In summary she got drunk and flipped out at me for spending three hours working on a term paper for grad school.

Am I following that after she got drunk and flipped out on you, that is when you decided to start sleeping in the guestroom? (vs: that happened, then your friends passed, then you moved?)

I don't know what to do. I will continue to hold my position because it feels like I am not being true to my core values if I don't, but I am getting increasingly uncomfortable with how making this stand is increasing my wife's dysregulation.

Is your position: you will continue to sleep in the guest room and not be intimate with her until she genuinely apologizes for not caring about you when your friends passed? If it's something else, how would you summarize it in one sentence?

I agree with you that your current approach is likely contributing to your W's dysregulation. I think we may be on the same page about you wanting to find other options.

[quoteI see my therapist in two days and will go over this with her, but need advice now. Do I continue to remain positive/neutral but also not give in until she acquiesces and gives me a sober "I'm sorry your friends died, I'm sorry that you're hurting, etc." or do I give it up as a lost cause? If it is a lost cause, do I continue to stay in the guest room? I cannot stomach asking to move back into the master bedroom when it is her who has driven me out, nor can I imagine being intimate with someone who cares so little about my feelings. Sex for her is just a physical act that makes her feel better...a dopamine hit, but for me it needs to be based on wanting to be with a person and being able to be vulnerable. You know, actual intimacy?[/quote]

Do you think she can apologize to you in a way you experience as genuine?

...

The NEABPD Family Connections course suggests that there are four approaches to problem solving in a BPD family system (those are old slides and won't list all 4 of these, but will get you close, esp around pgs 39-42):

*Coercive: this may involve making a demand or ultimatum, or using force to solve the problem. It may be one-vs-one (spouse telling spouse), or two-vs-one (two parents telling a child what to do), or other combinations. Sometimes this is necessary when there is a legitimate safety risk (for example, forcibly taking car keys from a drunk person). This is not a relationship building model and there are negative consequences.

*Solo/one sided: one party proceeds with doing what s/he can independently, which opens a door of invitation for the other partner to follow (or not). There are no demands or ultimatums. There is no guarantee that the partner will follow. This approach may take time and patience. It is not necessarily destructive to the relationship.

*Collaborative: both parties find some common ground. There may be agreement about what the problem is or about some facet of the problem, and agreement on a path forward or some options forward. Many other DBT and FC skills will likely be in play (DEARMAN to express feelings/make requests, validation/not invalidating). Relationship building.

*Non-collaborative: "for now", if no other problem solving model seems to be effective. Must be preceded by attempts at collaboration. Not a permanent solution -- needs to be revisited periodically. Non-collaborative problem solving can have negative impacts on the relationship (comes at a cost). It is not coercive (there are no demands/ultimatums) but there may be announcements of what one partner plans to do that the other partner does not like. It is critical to validate the partner's sadness or upset about the plan (this does not mean changing the plan). It's important not to take the position that "this is forever"

...

You have a problem in your relationship. DBT tells us that committing to an "either-or" is a dead end. We have options, including "both-and". "Either-or" escalates and isn't effective: either-or is "dying on the hill", "not giving in", "giving up as a lost cause".

There are other approaches, though when things are very difficult in our families, it is hard to see those other options.

These Family Connections slides can help us learn more about what it is in ourselves that hinders us from seeing those options or from acting effectively (or less ineffectively). All of us have unique backstories and wounds that contribute to why the family environment is difficult, painful, and wounding:

This is a big excerpt but I think it's important:

Relationship between individual functioning and family functioning
We are all aware that relationships can make us feel good or bad about ourselves or others. The degree to which someone might be affected can be disturbing, no matter the combination of factors that cause an illness or disorder. (italics mine)

What makes it difficult for us?
There are some factors that make it especially hard for families with someone with BPD. All families experience some distress at some point, and even with most chronic conditions, after a number of months, people can marshal their resources. But with BPD, the disorder can go on, and the level of distress is high because of its chronicity, episodic depression, and other stressful factors. Often families have no feedback to guide them, and so these factors make it difficult to get organized in a useful way. For many people, after six months of trying to deal with chronic irritability, they will just quit. With a chronic condition it’s hard to know if you are helping. People often go from anger, to attacking – and end up in an emotional spiral. Such patterns of reactive behavior are not specific to BPD; they can turn up in any chronically distressed family situation. Once you get to the secondary emotion of anger, and people react defensively, then you have a distressing situation for everyone.

Anger and judgment reinforce each other, and in the unpredictable contexts such emotions cause people to stop letting themselves feel vulnerable and to stop expressing themselves accurately. Understanding is impossible without accurate expression (#5). It leads to conflict (#7), lack of acceptance, and becomes a vicious circle.

This list focuses on us (not the pwBPD) and asks us to identify what about ourselves makes it difficult:

Families: We don’t know very much about family functioning in families with
a member who has borderline personality disorder (neither family of origin nor
current family). However, data are clear that it is very difficult for patients and
their family members.
 What Makes It Difficult for Us? (Fruzzetti)

1. Severe individual distress and disorder
2. Bad habits, patterns: forgetting that this is a person you love
3. Judgments (right/wrong; should/shouldn’t)
4. Anger (it can be toxic in families)
5. Poor (inaccurate) self-expression
6. Lack of understanding
7. Poor conflict management skills
8. Lack of acceptance

Exercise #1: Using this list, put each factor in the order of relevance for your family. Which one(s) of those do you think can change? What will it require?

For me, #1 was big (my own anxiety, depression, etc), along with #3 (judging what the kids' mom "should" be doing as a mom), and #8 (not accepting the reality that she is going to be this way).

I wonder if as you're feeling like you're in this deadlock, looking at different resources (the two links above) can help you find a different direction besides "holding my ground" and "giving everything up".

I also want to remind you of another FC skill that they term the "STOP skill". When we aren't sure what to do or say, we can emply the STOP skill so that we don't inadvertently make things worse. Stopping and not doing anything in the moment is a skill. I don't think I'm going to remember the exact acronym words, but these are close:

Stop: don't follow the urge to say the first thing on your mind
Take a breath: pause, breathe
Observe: what do you notice about the situation? about people's feelings? about yourself?
Plan: a mindful path forward, which may or may not involve saying or doing anything

Over the next few days, before your T visit, consider using the STOP skill to get you through.

...

These are extremely difficult circumstances and it makes sense that you're feeling so challenged, with the stress of your family situation, school, and deep loss. I'm glad you're going to check in with your therapist soon. Please keep us in the loop on what your T suggests (if you're comfortable sharing that).

[HurtAndTired]

Thanks for your reply Kells,

Let me answer your questions.

You are correct on the timeline. She got drunk and flipped out on me, which caused me to move into the guest room for my safety (door locked.) A day or two afterward, we had still not reconciled and I was still staying in the guest room (door unlocked - as she was no longer drunk and dysregulated, and I was not in danger but was still upset with her and couldn't deal with the drama during the end of the semester). This is when I found out that my friends had died, shared the news with her, and she reacted to it very poorly, which further upset me.

At this point, my wife upped the ante by locking the door to the master bedroom each night, even though I was not trying to go in there to sleep and was choosing to stay in the guest room (in the past she had banished me to the guest room as punishment/silent treatment when angry at me).

My position is that I am going to continue to stay in the guest room at least until the end of the semester (Friday) so that I can get a good night's sleep and not have to stress out about her dysregulation when I have finals to worry about and desperately need to get my sleep. However, I am unsure of what to do after that.

I have not wronged her. I have not yelled at her. I have not called her names. I was the one who was yelled at, sworn at, and called horrible names (in front of S3). I will not beg to be let back into the master bedroom. I have done that too many times in my caretaker days when she would abuse me and I would be the one apologizing just to restore some semblance of normalcy.

My being in the guest room clearly upsets her. It is not so much that she misses me as that she feels rejected and also cannot control me (she is always paranoid about me masturbating and watching porn, even if it is just with me being in the bathroom for 5 to 10 minutes). What I intuit she wants is an apology (or perhaps even a good grovel) for her to let me back into the master bedroom, but I can't give that as I have done nothing wrong.

I could just unilaterally move back into the bedroom on Friday night when the semester is over, but I sense that she would get very angry at me for doing that without her permission. She typically acts out and after a day or two pretends like everything is normal. I guess that I don't get to do the same thing but also don't understand what she wants from me. From my viewpoint, I am the wronged party here and don't know what I can do to mend things without betraying my core values.

Out of the four options that you provided, the only one that seems workable to me is "solo/one-sided solution." I can tell her that I am not mad at her, but that I need to know that I can count on her to console me when I am hurting because that is what family does for each other. I am willing to move back into the master bedroom whenever she is willing to be that person for me.

No ultimatum. I am perfectly happy staying in the guest room forever. I won't even ask for an apology. I just need to know that if something were to happen to my parents, that this is not the type of reaction to expect from her. I need her to know that this type of reaction to a death is not ok going forward. That is a core value of mine. If she can't offer kind word of consolation, then she should at the very least keep her mouth shut and not insult the people who died to the person who is mourning. A mumbled "I'm sorry for your loss" and silence after that would be perfectly acceptable and much preferable.

I will let you know what my therapist says about this after seeing her tomorrow.

Thanks again,

HurtAndTired

[thankful person]

Hi Hurt and Tired,

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your two close friends, as well as you having such a hard time with your wife.

I relate to your post so much. My wife split on me for the whole of last year and treated me and spoke to me similarly. I don’t expect there’s much you can learn from me but just wanted to share. Last year was the first year of our third child’s life and I think that had a lot to do with her mood swings and rage. She has recently given birth to our fourth, and things are so much better, though I do not trust her an inch. I feel like I so have massive walls up to protect myself, and any attempt to feel close to her may be somewhat fake. Honestly it doesn’t sound like much of a life but at the moment I’m happy with things because I just want my kids to grow up in as stable an environment as possible and at the moment surprisingly it is. I am worried for the year ahead though. When she sees me as such a bad person there is literally nothing I can do to change her mind. I hate the children seeing her dysregulated, angry, and shouting at me.

I know you probably do all this. But I try to remember that she is sick. She would not choose to have such a traumatised brain that she can’t see reality, she can’t see or feel love. I see her as a child, but one who is traumatised and think of it as a special needs relationship. Not for everyone, but I have chosen it. I have no interest in trying to foster a better relationship with someone else. I’m very over it. So I do not have expectations. At all. I have given up on thoughts such as, “I just wish she’d acknowledge

• ” No matter how upsetting things are for me.

I also have elderly parents and my father is very sick. I am trying to prepare myself for losing them. For the fact that my wife will not support me and I don’t expect her to. I will try not to share my feelings with her. Especially at such a vulnerable time. Even then she will be jealous and threatened (or that’s how she will perceive it).

The boy who was my first true love from when I was a teenager, we split up and lost contact in complicated circumstances when I was 17. A part of me always wondered if we were meant to be together. And wondered if we might be that couple that finally get back together in old age or something. In September this year, I found out he died by suicide back in 2013. I found this out just by googling his name. I have also lost touch with everyone from my past for similar reasons to yours. I have been grieving this lost love alone. I have not shared this with my wife. For a start she would not be understanding of why I would be googling anyone from my past, especially someone I loved so much. Secondly, she would not understand why I am devastated. Is there some kind of infidelity about these feelings? I have taken some risks with contacting some of his friends and family but through linked in where my wife doesn’t check my messages (I say that, but it’s only because no one messages me on there so she could find them if she looked). I have written a song for him on the piano whilst at work. I have the music written down but not the lyrics.

I know (feel like) it all sounds crazy. We non bpd partners have to be so strong. What Kells shared I found useful. I try to do what I can to avoid all this conflict, but as I said, when my wife paints me black, I try to remember how little I can do to change anything. I am still in the guest room too, but that is ostensibly because my wife has never managed to get the kids out of her (our) bed with any permanence so she has two of them in the bed every night and sometimes all four.

Thinking of you and sending strength.

[Notwendy]

I am sorry for your loss. You are in an emotionally vulnerable situation. I learned in counseling/12 steps CODA/ACA that when we are feeling emotionally stressed, it's a sign that we need some self care. It's also not the time to get into circular discussions or discuss emotional topics. You have got a lot going on right now. If sleeping in the guest room is a form of self care for you- then this is what you need to do. If you are doing it to send a message to your wife, that isn't self care.

I think understanding the Karpman triangle may help. I have a mother with BPD and she perceives herself to be in victim position. If someone else is feeling sad, or hurt, or tired- that - to her- feels like she is being attacked. One can not approach her from a "need" position. One is likely to get the opposite reaction from what one might expect- she gets angry rather than empathetic. It triggers an angry reponse from her.

BPD affects the ability to regulate emotions. If someone is already overwhelmed by their own emotions, they don't have the emotional space to deal with anyone else's. You haven't done anything wrong to turn to your wife for some understanding of your situation. However, she may not be capable of this.

So how to get emotional support? Other family members, friends, therapists. For me, also 12 step CODA and ACA have helped. Alcohol is another dimension to your situation. My BPD mother also used alcohol and this brought out her rages more.

One example that made me realize the inablility for empathy is when my father passed away. Understandably, this was difficult for my BPD mother but there also was no empathy for us, his children. I recall saying to her "I just lost a father" and her reply was a louder retort about losing her husband, as if this was her only concern. In fact, her BPD behavior increased during the time he was ill and passed away. If we think of these behaviors as disordered ways of coping (drinking is also one of them) it makes sense that they'd increase during stressful times.

There's another saying in 12 steps- "don't go to an empty well to drink". I am not saying your wife is doing this on purpose. I don't think my mother is purposely like this. I think this is her level of emotional capability for empathy and looking to her for emotional support is expecting her to do something she isn't capable of.

Since you are on the bettering board-  how can understanding this help your relationship? To start- when we expect people to be different from who they are- we are "making them wrong". Nobody likes to feel they are wrong or incapable. It may be making things worse to tell your wife you want something she can not provide.

Yet, you need some emotional support while respecting the boundaries of your marriage. You don't want to be triangulating against your wife with family and friends. It is good that you are seeing a therapist. 12 steps (CODA, Al- anon) are helpful too.

[HurtAndTired]

Thank you for your replies Thankful and Notwendy,

I spoke to my therapist about this situation yesterday and the first question she asked me was, "Do you want to move back into the master bedroom?" I was a bit shocked by the question because I hadn't really thought about it in such a clear and simple way before. The short answer is no...but.

I do not want to move back into the master bedroom because:

• My wife has a history of physically attacking me while I am asleep. More than half of the incidences of DV that have happened to me have been while I was sleeping. This makes me hypervigilant when I am in bed with her and I don't sleep as well.
• My wife snores.
• My wife likes to start arguments with me just as I am starting to go to sleep, which activates my anxiety and makes it hard, if not impossible for me to sleep. I have told her that I will not engage in arguments before bed, but this has only slowed her down a bit, it does not stop her from trying to engage me in one.
• I do not feel emotionally close to her at the moment and her physical proximity is not comforting to me.
• I am able to watch whatever TV show I want to watch and unwind on my own terms in the guest room. I have been sleeping better because of it.

However, I do want to move back into the master bedroom because:

• I simply want to make her feel better to help things go "back to normal."
• Avoid escalating the situation further.

My therapist has also said that my wife's behavior is a choice. She is prone to heightened emotions and emotional dysregulation, but she is able to control her actions when she is in public/around other people. She used to control her misbehavior around me because she was concerned about how I would react to it. She chooses to use foul language and scream at me because she feels like it is safe to do so now. Her initial drunken outburst at me two weeks ago may have been the result of her losing control and being dysregulated, but two weeks of consistently negative behavior toward me have been a choice. I have been careful not to "poke the bear" during those two weeks by being positive/neutral in my interactions with her and she has consistently chosen to respond with verbal abuse. I have been through plenty of splitting events with me and I know she is not splitting on me. We have gone out to a family lunch, and gone to a church event and she was positive/neutral toward me during those events. This doesn't happen when she is splitting. She also cooked dinner and offered me some food the other day. This also never happens during a split. She is 100% choosing to behave like this on this one issue. My therapist is the one who said to me two weeks ago "I can't believe that she is choosing THIS hill to die on..." due to how unreasonable it is to deny someone you purportedly love basic human decency when someone close dies, but to not have splitting or dysregulation to excuse the behavior.

Like Notwendy, my therapist told me that I have been staying in the guest room because I have not had the emotional bandwidth to deal with my wife's dysregulation on top of everything else going on in my life at the moment. I have been doing so to protect myself. Now that I have successfully completed my first semester in the doctoral program and don't have any more homework for a month, I can finally decompress and that bandwidth will increase. Furthermore, as a teacher, today is my last day of work for the next two weeks. I no longer need to stay in the guest room for self-care. This is where I have to choose what I will do going forward.

My therapist suggested that I could use the approach of saying something along the lines of "I have needed to stay in the guest room to get my rest over the past two weeks due to the pressure of my finals. Now that I am done with that, would you like me to come back and sleep in the master bedroom?" Something along those lines would put the ball in my wife's court and would allow her to back out of the situation without having to apologize to me. We could use her preferred method of resolving conflict, which is to pretend it just never happened.

I told my therapist that I am ok with letting this go without expecting an apology. However, I am concerned about her inability to give me a basic level of human consolation over the loss of my friends for a few minutes when she was able to do the same for her friend for nearly two hours only a week later. This, again, was a choice. She chose to console her friend. She chose not to console me. I am not ok with that due to the fact that it is inevitable that loss is a fact of life and it will come up again at some point in the future. I don't expect her to console me, but the bad-mouthing of the person or people who passed to a person who is mourning their loss is unacceptable behavior. Period. I need to know that this will not happen again going forward. It is crossing a red line for me.

My therapist suggested that I wait until my wife is sober and regulated and bring it up using "we" language. Something along the lines of "It is unfortunate, but death is a part of life and I want to make sure that going forward we are going to be able to offer at least some minor words of comfort to each other if one or both of us experiences a loss. We need to be able to count on each other to be there for whoever is mourning without judgment or negative comments."

I will give this a try and see how it goes. In the long term, I am ambivalent about moving back. If my wife was ok with me sleeping in the guest room, I would move there permanently. I feel safer there and am able to sleep better. It is only because my wife is obviously not ok with me sleeping in there that I am in this dilemma at all.

Also, to put things in context, I am continuing to post on the bettering board because I DO want my marriage to be better. However, there is definitely an expiration date on that if my wife does not get help. I am getting my financial house in order and have another 2 and a half years to finish my doctorate. By that time our son will be old enough that he can speak for himself (six and a half to seven years old) and I won't be as concerned about her making false allegations of child abuse against me should we divorce.

Once my doctorate is done and our son is older, I am going to tell her that I need her to get treatment (for her alcoholism as well as her BPD) as a condition of my continued investment in the marriage, fully realizing that this may be too much for her. It is a bottom line for me. I can and will not continue to suffer indefinitely and expose our son to behavior that no child should have to see. I am documenting, on the advice of my therapist, all the drinking, dysregulation, and abusive behavior online with times, dates, and descriptions each day and have a watch camera on the way in the mail which can make secret video recordings of abusive behavior.

I am also holding out hope that she may hit rock bottom before this deadline arrives. I am hoping that she will realize that she needs help and will seek it on her own. I know it is unlikely and am not counting on that happening, but I can still hope that it does. Until then, I will try to do my best to make my marriage better, more tolerable, and more liveable for myself and for my son. I am resolute that I am staying...for now. My son is little, and vulnerable, and protecting him physically, psychologically, and emotionally is my number one priority.

HurtAndTired

[Notwendy]

Your therapist has a point- her behavior is a choice and she is accountable for her behavior. That said- why is it that she can console her friend and not you? BPD affects the most intimate of relationships. It is a choice but emotionally, they are the most disordered with the people closest to them due to the emotionality of that relationship. People without BPD also change how they behave with people according to the relationship but it's not disordered behavior. We act differently with our boss at work than we do with our spouses.

Even if it appears she's consoling her friend, the relationship isn't "normal". It's less of an emotional connection. My BPD mother also has a public persona that is different than what we see at home. I don't think she is capable of empathy or consoling anyone but she is able to appear as such with people less close to her due to maintaining this "persona". She is also sometimes more generous to others than to her own family. It's the people she is closest to who experience her BPD behavior the most.

I am not opposing that her behavior is a choice but trying to frame it in a way that you don't see it as personal to you or about you. We can not control other people's behavior- but we can decide ourselves how to react to it. She has the choice of consoling you or not. Your choice is how to react to that.

A reason I recommend 12 steps is because it helped me. I don't have an issue with alcohol myself and being that I don't live with my mother, I was surprised when it was recommended. The dynamics in a family where there is someone with BPD are very similar to that of a family where someone has BPD. We also play a part in this dynamics. You can start now with gaining the benefit of the program at any time. There are people from all walks of life in the groups I have been in, and also all different belief systems. There is the idea of a Higher Power but people interpret that as they wish.

I think you are wise to protect yourself financially, and document/record as you are doing.