Communication Strategies During Divorce and Custody Disputes

[Bara]

I'm currently navigating the process of finalizing a divorce after a marriage to an UBPDw that began almost 10 years ago. My ex and I share a 5yo son, and are working toward a co-parenting plan with joint custody using a 2-2-3 schedule. We do not have a court order in place, this was just mutually agreed upon and has been working for the better part of this year.

We have been living apart for nearly a year and things have generally been calm beyond the occasional flair up from her that eventually fizzles out. It is clear she is still carrying a lot of hurt and abandonment from me ending our marriage.

Now for where I need some help. I want to emphasize that I already have legal council, the help I am seeking is more how best to respond to her in order to try and de-escalate the situation. In the past ignoring her causes her to ramp up as opposed to fizzle out.

She is now threatening to not let my son come back to me. Again I am leveraging a lawyer to help navigate the implications of this.
The last few days she sends me a flurry of text messages around how I'm a liar, a bad person, untrustworthy, and a litany of other insults. She caught wind that I have been dating and is now enraged. Accusing me of breaking boundaries and it's clear she is prodding our son for any information she can get about what I'm doing in my spare time. She also is drawing conclusions about his behavior that are totally one sided and devoid of any understanding of what might actually be happening, just automatically blaming me for everything.

Overall, I am compelled to respond to her and at the same time I know nothing will be heard or understood. In the past the ONLY way to appease her is to beg for forgiveness and say she is right about everything. She calls it accountability, and in reality it is control and self riotous form of justice.
Finally she is looping in other people in her circle in a way that is turning them against me as I have no avenue to correct the wild accusations.

Can anyone help advise me on ignoring v.s. engaging?
Is this just a lost cause and I must simply go the legal route until we have a legal agreement in place?
Has anyone been in a similar situation that could tell me their experience and how it played out?

At this point I'm actually in so much fear and anxiety that I'm afraid she will somehow see this post and get even more angry.

[kells76]

This stuff is so stressful. I really get it; we've lived through it, too.

I'm currently navigating the process of finalizing a divorce after a marriage to an UBPDw that began almost 10 years ago. My ex and I share a 5yo son, and are working toward a co-parenting plan with joint custody using a 2-2-3 schedule. We do not have a court order in place, this was just mutually agreed upon and has been working for the better part of this year.

Is the date that the divorce will be finalized coming up soon?

Have you been documenting (handwritten journal, google doc, fridge calendar, etc) the times S5 was with each parent?

Is the mutual agreement "on paper" somewhere (email, text, etc)?

We have been living apart for nearly a year and things have generally been calm beyond the occasional flair up from her that eventually fizzles out. It is clear she is still carrying a lot of hurt and abandonment from me ending our marriage.

Now for where I need some help. I want to emphasize that I already have legal council, the help I am seeking is more how best to respond to her in order to try and de-escalate the situation. In the past ignoring her causes her to ramp up as opposed to fizzle out. 

What were the "flare ups" from her -- angry texts, angry emails, blame, threats about S5, in person arguments...? Am I tracking with you that you didn't engage with those flare ups, and they died out on their own? Or that you engaged with them somehow, and that seemed to contribute to them dying out?

She is now threatening to not let my son come back to me. Again I am leveraging a lawyer to help navigate the implications of this.
The last few days she sends me a flurry of text messages around how I'm a liar, a bad person, untrustworthy, and a litany of other insults. She caught wind that I have been dating and is now enraged. Accusing me of breaking boundaries and it's clear she is prodding our son for any information she can get about what I'm doing in my spare time. She also is drawing conclusions about his behavior that are totally one sided and devoid of any understanding of what might actually be happening, just automatically blaming me for everything.

Is S5 with her for a longer stretch of time as part of winter break, or are you still on the 2-2-3 schedule?

When is he scheduled to return to you (i.e. later today, next week...)? Are you supposed to go there and pick him up, or is she supposed to drop him off with you, or something else?

Overall, I am compelled to respond to her and at the same time I know nothing will be heard or understood. In the past the ONLY way to appease her is to beg for forgiveness and say she is right about everything. She calls it accountability, and in reality it is control and self riotous form of justice.
Finally she is looping in other people in her circle in a way that is turning them against me as I have no avenue to correct the wild accusations.

What is it that you feel compelled to say?

Do you think she will rope others in in such a way that they would actually and physically impede your access to S5? Or is she roping them in in terms of smearing you to them, but not to the level of prodding them to act to impede your time with S5?

Can anyone help advise me on ignoring v.s. engaging?
Is this just a lost cause and I must simply go the legal route until we have a legal agreement in place?
Has anyone been in a similar situation that could tell me their experience and how it played out?

Is there any parenting content in the texts -- i.e., even if 95% of it is "you're a horrible person, you've abandoned me and S5, you're not his real family" etc, is there anything about logistics?

Even if not, you can choose to respond by saying something like "I'll be by on the 3rd at 5pm to pick him up, like we chatted about last week. Thanks; Bara"

I wouldn't engage with any dysregulated content. I would only engage with topical content (about S5 logistics), or initiate engagement about logistics. Otherwise I'd lean towards No. What does your L say?

At this point I'm actually in so much fear and anxiety that I'm afraid she will somehow see this post and get even more angry.

Unless you are using real names or a screen name that she knows, or you've told her about the site, or you're sharing devices and you leave tabs open, she won't find you here. The fraction of a percent of members that are "found out" are found because of using a duplicate screen name from other social media, using their real names, or actually telling the pwBPD "hey check this out". If you're not doing that stuff you're fine.

Been here almost 10 years with some really weird one of a kind situations, and have never been found. And believe me, I would know right away if she found me here.

[kells76]

This was one of our more stressful (but ultimately resolved) experiences with that dynamic:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=347972.0

[Bara]

Thanks so much for the reply. Knowing I'm not alone helps a lot. Here are some answers to provide more info.

Is the date that the divorce will be finalized coming up soon?

I am working with the final settlement but we do not yet have a date to finalize in place.

Have you been documenting (handwritten journal, google doc, fridge calendar, etc) the times S5 was with each parent?

I have extensive records of the schedule up until now. Including screenshots, and calendars.

Is the mutual agreement "on paper" somewhere (email, text, etc)?

I couldn't find anything definitive that is written. We have mutually verbally agreed that we want to be as close to 50/50 as possible. She is now saying she no longer agrees to that. So I guess I have written proof that she is "no longer agreed to 50/50" implying that that was the previous understanding.

What is it that you feel compelled to say?

I feel compelled to explain the context around and facts around the false accusations. She is using half truths and drawing incorrect conclusions because she does not have all the facts. For example she says that I talking to our son about "crushes" on other kids and that it is inappropriate. In reality he came to me asking me about this because another kid at school brought it to him and he had questions.

Do you think she will rope others in in such a way that they would actually and physically impede your access to S5? Or is she roping them in in terms of smearing you to them, but not to the level of prodding them to act to impede your time with S5?

She is smearing me. I don't think these people in her circle would actually get involved.

Is there any parenting content in the texts?

Yes. She is saying that she is no longer willing to follow the agreed upon schedule and not comfortable with letting him come back to me as planned. I have attempted the suggestion of "I will stick to the plan and pick up as we discussed" she simply says. "No."

I am waiting to hear back from my lawyer. Generally he has advised me to not engage unless it is a question of logistics. Right now, he is scheduled to be with her until tomorrow so I'm leaning on just not responding until then but again I'm worried this will cause her to amp up even more. I also feel like I need to accept that there is nothing I can say that will diffuse anything. Finally the ping pong thought comes back to "I'm getting railroaded and I can't sit idly by while I'm accused of teaching my son to be a liar." but I'm not sure if that is just a fear and anxiety reflex or if I do need to set the record straight over text.

 

[kells76]

Sounds like there are two things going on --

-the "smear campaign" and "I can't believe you told S5 blah blah blah" stuff is chronic
-the "you can't pick up S5 tomorrow" stuff is acute

Sometimes it helps to keep different issues in their own lanes.

I'm guessing your priority issue right now is making S5 gets picked up at the scheduled time tomorrow.

I might be leaning towards not discussing the chronic stuff during an acute priority -- though you know her best.

If things work better this way, you might be able to weave both together -- but it's tricky:

"Hi S5's Mom;

Thanks for raising your concern about what S5 talks about. While I didn't initiate the convo with him about "crushes" (he brought it up), I agree with you that us being on the same page about it is a good idea. Let's put some time on the calendar next week to chat, does Monday work for you? If not, let me know a better time, or feel free to email.
I'll be there at 5pm tomorrow the 1st to pick up S5.

Best;
Bara"

That's one option -- puts the ball back in her court. If she's concerned about this stuff then she can take the lead in setting up a discussion. It does do some mild JADE-ing and that's where, given you're picking S5 up tomorrow, it's a hard call whether right now is the time to make that play. Could work better after you pick up S5 vs before... but again, you know her best.

I wouldn't necessarily give the false accusations airtime (given that the people she's involving won't likely actively impede your time with S5) unless your L suggests otherwise. Some people do respond with a BIFF email only on that topic (not mixed in with kid logistics); our workshop on B.I.F.F. Technique for Communications could be a good resource.

The BIFF approach comes from Bill Eddy, I believe; his High Conflict Institute is rolling out a lot more coparenting material than they used to have. Also worth a look.

...

Is the plan that you pick up S5 from her house, or from somewhere else (meet in the middle)?

[Bara]

Thank you for the incredibly helpful response!

The breakdown of chronic v.s. acute is very accurate. The interesting thing is with how her personality works, it seems that the acute issues are a direct result of chronic issues not being resolved in her mind so she does something severe. In this case she is pointing at the chronic issues as the reason for not allowing him to come back to me. "You have shown XYZ, so I'm not ok with him going back to you."

We live very close together so we usually just decide in the moment who will do the actual pickup. So that is a bit murky. I fear showing up at her house will cause unneeded conflict, but I will consult my lawyer on the best course of action here. My assumption is that she will refuse via text and my best course of action will be to document it and wait it out for another day. I could follow up on Thursday as he goes to a day camp then and I could inform her that I will be picking him up from there to see how she responds.

Thanks for the BIFF tip. I will check it out.

Overall, I think it will be best to decouple the chronic v.s. acute as you mentioned.
Also my L informed me that in the short term if she refuses access it will not be looked upon kindly by the courts when it comes to it. I may miss some time with him in the short term but it will not go well for her if this is the path she chooses.

I find the most helpful thing for me, besides getting excellent responses like this thread, is to hear other's stories and how things ended up playing out for them. I will continue to look through the board, but would appreciate any anecdotes or links to threads that anyone would think is helpful.

[ForeverDad]

Sounds like there are two things going on --

-the "smear campaign" and "I can't believe you told S5 blah blah blah" stuff is chronic
-the "you can't pick up S5 tomorrow" stuff is acute

This is a good insight to cultivate for the future too.

Is the plan that you pick up S5 from her house, or from somewhere else (meet in the middle)?

The exchange location does make a difference.  A neutral location may not be convenient but it reduces risk of an incident if you do pick-ups at her home.  She would probably perceive her residence as her 'turf'.

Also, remember tonight and tomorrow is a holiday.  Many people with BPD traits (pwBPD) get quite sensitive/triggered around holidays, anniversaries, changes, etc.  So be aware that these triggers may be a factor in deciding your approach.

Also, once this immediate issue is past, then you can start looking ahead to court orders concerning holiday schedules.  Likely your local court has a default holiday list including every possible holiday.  Strike out any holiday you and your ex won't observe.

Also, vacations are possible with your child.  Your ex can get vacations too.  If your son isn't returned as scheduled, perhaps you can rephrase for your own resolution that until you get court orders, then when your ex seizes extra time with your child, as as though it were vacation time?  If that lessens your pain and angst.

Also my L informed me that in the short term if she refuses access it will not be looked upon kindly by the courts when it comes to it. I may miss some time with him in the short term but it will not go well for her if this is the path she chooses.

While what she does will not be looked upon kindly by a court, do not be surprised that courts expect and even - to some extent - excuse some conflict as the marriage is unwound.  Focus on strategies to get the best (least bad) order.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Bara -

I’m so sorry that you’re going through this difficult situation.

Does it seem to you that the current escalation arose directly as a result of your soon to be exW believing that you’re dating?  If in fact that IS your thinking and / or you are dating, it may be in your (and your child’s) best interests to keep this part of your life separate… meaning do not bring any women around your son.  At least not until your divorce and custody are finalized.  You do NOT want your divorce decree or custody agreement to state that you are forbidden from having your child around other women.  I’m not sure whether that’s enforceable, but please use caution.

Case in point, although opposite - a million years ago, when my (now exH) was going through his divorce… he had been separated for several years before we even met.  His exW wanted a caveat in their decree that he could only have the two kids when I was WITH him!  I was NO NO NO!!!  We did not even live together and had never spent the night together when he had visitation so the entire concept was ludicrous.  And i refused to be dragged into their mess.

But more meaningfully, if you are dating and your 5-year old son knows this, there is the potential for your exW to place your precious child squarely in the middle by questioning him.  That is so unfair and harmful to any child but your exW likely won’t see it that way.  She likely may see it as her potentially being *replaced* as his mother.  So please use caution in how exposed your child is to your private life at this point.  He needs protection from the emotional exploitation of his mother.

You have every right to have a private life and to seek a loving and healthy partner; but you’ve got to tread lightly when dealing with a high conflict divorce from a disordered individual who truly cannot put anyone’s emotional interests before whatever lies in her (or his) path.

I truly wish you the best.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Bara]

Thanks for this advice—it's been a guiding principle for the past month.

I have no intention of involving the person I’m dating in my child’s life, but my ex seems to have other plans. They accessed phone records (we’re still on a family plan, which I’m trying to leave, but they control the account), reverse-searched a number, and have since started harassing this person.

They have been:

Sending repeated messages
Friending them on social media
Threatening to contact their employer
Even mailing them a package of used items that were once given as gifts

This morning, I woke up to my ex creating a group chat with me and the person I’m dating—clearly an attempt to provoke, control, and sabotage.

So far, both of us have been ignoring these messages, but the situation keeps escalating, and it’s becoming concerning. I’m unsure of the best course of action.

I also worry that my ex will start questioning my child about this. While they wouldn’t have anything to say since I’ve kept my dating life entirely separate, I’m concerned about how this might affect them. I don’t want them to feel caught in the middle or start asking me questions about something I’ve been intentionally keeping separate for their well-being.

I feel inclined to continue ignoring it and stick to the parenting schedule as planned. I’ve been in contact with my lawyer, but progress is slow. At what point should I directly call out this behavior? Or should I just keep documenting and ignoring it?

[ForeverDad]

Well, the cat is out of the bag already - so this may be a moot issue - but you could just get yourself a new wireless account with a different carrier and a separate phone.  Not sure if you could drag your current number with you so the switchover would be as painless as possible.

If you can't control the account, are you paying for it?  It may be another financial cost of unwinding the marriage.

[Pook075]

I'm really sorry you're going through this as well.

The best advice I can give is to remember the big picture here- you'll be co-parenting together for the rest of your lives.  Even when the kid is in his 20's and 30's, you'll still have interactions and it pays to be civil.  Everything you can do to move towards that now will pay massive dividends in the future.

Now I realize you have to follow the advice of legal counsel and I'm not saying to do anything different there.  But when you do communicate with her directly, it's essential that you can find a path towards having a conversation without (a) blaming her (b) defending yourself and (c) talking about the past. 

I know that sounds impossible today, but these communication tools are what all of us spend a lifetime learning to avoid these blowout drama incidents. 

I also went through a no-fault divorce without lawyers, and it went shockingly smoothly because I put in the efforts to rebuild trust with my ex.  I ultimately did it for the kids, but it has served me well in so many other areas of my life post-marriage.