New Here

[RevScot]

Hello, I'm new here, this is my first post.  

I'm a Christian man in full time ministry, married, with 4 incredible children still in school living at home.

Several years ago my wife and I were having some marriage issues we couldn't overcome.  Our organisation placed us with an in house licensed counsellor, who happened to be my boss, which in hind site was a huge mistake.  After an initial 2 meetings with me the counsellor said he'd be happy to continue to meet with me if I wanted support, but he didn't feel that I needed professional help.  My wife on the other hand began meeting regularly with him for a couple years.  There is a lot more I could say about the counselling, but will keep it short by noting it ended abruptly when my wife found herself in sexualized transference with him.  They both swear nothing happened, but I have significant suspicions, especially considering his lack of character.

Towards the end of the counselling he privately told me that he very strongly suspects my wife has BPD, that he wouldn't diagnose because he didn't think it would help, and that if I told anyone he would deny ever saying it.  I know, great guy and a terrific counsellor, highly recommended ;).

Since then it has been a real struggle keeping our marriage together.  These are some of the things I'm trying to manage on a regular basis: name calling, put downs, extreme emotional reactions, taking blame for everything negative while not receiving credit for anything positive, she can't connect on an emotional level, she can't stand any type of physical touch, physical intimacy happens 1-2x/yr despite my efforts, constant unfair accusations.  

I struggle with the lack of fairness sometimes, feeling like I have to do everything perfectly while she gives no effort to our marriage and takes significant offence at the littlest things.  I feel like she is constantly working to sabotage our marriage and family, but also that she desperately wants both to be healthy.  Conversations about these things always end up with her saying "I won't be accused", or her accusing me of gaslighting.

This is the first interaction I've had with any type of support group.  I'm not really sure what to expect here, but appreciate being able to express some of these things.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi RevScot, glad you found us, and

Definitely a difficult situation you're coming from. Your description of the blurred lines in "counseling" with you, your wife, and your boss/friend/counselor, really hits home -- briefly, long ago, when my H and his kids' mom were together and having marriage problems, they asked H's then-best friend to "help them". The best friend ended up suggesting to H that divorce "wasn't a big deal", didn't help them resolve their issues, and got engaged to the kids' mom ~3 months after the divorce was final. Blurry boundaries do seem to come with the territory, and can be stressful -- and you're not alone in being in that kind of situation, where you're trying to get your marriage healthier, but something isn't right. Really gut-wrenching stuff.

Just a few questions to get a better sense of what you're coping with:

how long have the two of you been married?

how long ago did the "counseling" end?

how old are your kids, and how do they seem to be doing with stuff? Are they homeschooled?

is the "counselor" still your boss?

does your W use violence at all (throwing things -- whether at a person or not; breaking things; hitting; spitting; punching; driving unsafely; etc)?

...

This is a lot to juggle:

Since then it has been a real struggle keeping our marriage together.  These are some of the things I'm trying to manage on a regular basis: name calling, put downs, extreme emotional reactions, taking blame for everything negative while not receiving credit for anything positive, she can't connect on an emotional level, she can't stand any type of physical touch, physical intimacy happens 1-2x/yr despite my efforts, constant unfair accusations. 

What would you say is your #1 priority that you want to address, or have be "less bad"?

What has it looked like so far, when you try to "manage" these things? I.e., do you say something, do something, say certain things, leave the house, try to reason with her, reference a book or plan, try to have a conversation...?

Knowing what you've tried so far can help us understand what new, different (and often unintuitive) paths forward might be effective in your situation.

...

This is the first interaction I've had with any type of support group.  I'm not really sure what to expect here, but appreciate being able to express some of these things.

Just getting it all out there "on paper" can be huge.

You can share how you're feeling and what you're struggling with, research new tools and approaches and ask questions about how they work, share moments of success, learn from others, reply to other members, and just relax knowing that you're in a community where people really, really get it about what you're living through.

Fill us in on more of your story, whenever works best for you;

kells76

[RevScot]

Hey Kells, apologies for the slow reply and thank you for replying. 

We've been married 24 years. 
Her counselling ended around 6 years ago, and thank God he is no longer my boss. 
Our kids are 11, 13, 14 and 16 and are all a mix of homeschooled, online school, private school.  The youngest 2 are girls, and seem to somehow manage to steer clear of her episodes.  The older 2 are boys and are neck deep in much of the same that I am.  It is so difficult to try and manage constant conflict, trying to not discredit their mother while encouraging them to behave as they're supposed to.  Many times they both rage against her and chaos ensues.  I long for the day the boys are old enough to move out for uni and really find themselves.
80% of the time violence isn't an issue.  Interestingly, just this morning we had a significant episode.  I placed a small suitcase on our bed to unload it from a work trip.  She apparently didn't like that, yelled at me, called me names and shoved me several times hard.  The last shove hitting my face and knocking me off balance.  She was standing between me and the door otherwise I would have just left the room.  But in order to stop the attack I pushed her away from me once.  There was no falling or damage, I simply let her know I will not be physically abused.  I'm not proud of this, but I also didn't want to be physically injured.

I can't say one thing I wish wasn't as bad.  It's all bad.  We wouldn't still be together if it wasn't for our kids. 
Trying to manage it has looked like me doing a lot of verbal defence and justifying.  Which seems to fuel the fire.

Strangely enough her previous counsellor connected me to this group but I've been in pretty hard denial, thinking I could manage on my own until now. 

[kells76]

We've been married 24 years.  
Her counselling ended around 6 years ago, and thank God he is no longer my boss.  
Our kids are 11, 13, 14 and 16 and are all a mix of homeschooled, online school, private school.  The youngest 2 are girls, and seem to somehow manage to steer clear of her episodes.  The older 2 are boys and are neck deep in much of the same that I am.  It is so difficult to try and manage constant conflict, trying to not discredit their mother while encouraging them to behave as they're supposed to.  Many times they both rage against her and chaos ensues.  I long for the day the boys are old enough to move out for uni and really find themselves.

It can be common in families with BPD dynamics for it to impact the kids differently, and for the kids to find different ways to cope. In our case, SD18 (my husband's oldest) tended to be more confrontational/outspoken with the dysfunction at Mom's, while SD16 would retreat/disappear.

Are your kids in any kind of extracurriculars -- sports, clubs, etc?

Do they have friends they spend time with? Do you know the friends' parents/families?

And do you have any family in the area that your kids like to spend time with?

When home is stressful, it can be important for kids to have somewhere safe and calm to go, to give their nervous systems a break, and to focus on other, age-appropriate things. SD16 has a sport and is in the school play, and has one very good friend that she'll invite over, both to Mom's and Dad's. SD18 graduated from HS last spring, and just got a full time job out of the house, so she is no longer spending the whole day at Mom's.

80% of the time violence isn't an issue.  Interestingly, just this morning we had a significant episode.  I placed a small suitcase on our bed to unload it from a work trip.  She apparently didn't like that, yelled at me, called me names and shoved me several times hard.  The last shove hitting my face and knocking me off balance.  She was standing between me and the door otherwise I would have just left the room.  But in order to stop the attack I pushed her away from me once.  There was no falling or damage, I simply let her know I will not be physically abused.  I'm not proud of this, but I also didn't want to be physically injured.

These are really tricky situations. It makes a ton of sense that you did not want to be physically injured. That's not good for you or the relationship.

You may already know this; in some areas, there can still be biases against males -- like if there's a DV incident and a male is involved, and law enforcement shows up, he may be treated as a perpetrator, even if he's the victim.

I wonder if you could consider reaching out to a local DV hotline to share what happened, and learn from them what is typical in your area, and new ways to evade that kind of situation? I've had to call a DV hotline, too, so you wouldn't be alone. It's totally anonymous and they are good listeners. You are in control of the call and don't have to do what they suggest if you aren't up for it (though it can be good advice). When you call, let us know what they suggested.

I can't say one thing I wish wasn't as bad.  It's all bad.  We wouldn't still be together if it wasn't for our kids.  
Trying to manage it has looked like me doing a lot of verbal defence and justifying.  Which seems to fuel the fire.

OK, that can be a place to start. Let's just focus there for now -- we don't have to solve or improve everything at once.

When the fire gets fueled, things escalate and get out of hand. Right?

She "shouldn't" be so easy to set off and sensitive... but she is, and that's not under your control. She is the one responsible for her sensitivities and responses. You can't make her do or not do anything.

What is under your control is if you contribute to things escalating. I think it's really prescient that you could call out that your defensiveness and justification seem to fan the flames.

Have you had a chance to read our article on Don't "JADE" (justify, argue, defend, explain) yet?

Really, really good stuff in there -- especially how we all tend to JADE when we feel wounded, unfairly blamed/attacked, and unheard... but how JADEing stops others from hearing us, so our pain increases.

When you get a few minutes, I'd encourage you to read the whole thing and share what seemed to resonate with you.

I'm thinking that that's a doorway in to helping things be less bad in your relationship... maybe a little more livable, so you can catch your breath.

Strangely enough her previous counsellor connected me to this group but I've been in pretty hard denial, thinking I could manage on my own until now.  

It's hard to accept that a loved one may have a serious and impactful mental illness. It's really hard when that mental illness shows up relationally, like BPD.

In addition to posting here, I want to let you know that the National Education Alliance for Borderline Personality Disorder offers free online classes for family members (including spouses) of pwBPD. I took it last year and it was worth it -- I learned some helpful new tools for managing my own emotions and responses.

...

How have the last few days been for you and your family?

[RevScot]

I really appreciate your replies Kells, it's very grounding to know I'm not going crazy with all the ups and downs.

The kids all have pretty regular youth clubs, and it seems like they've figured out even if they're not particularly fond of the clubs, they need some time off the front lines.  One of the really tough things for all of us is that we're expats.  We've lived as expats since 2009, so we're accustomed to it, but community and family are very different for us.  We'll be going back to the U.S. for a year to help the kids feel grounded.  I'm very much hoping that time will be healing for all of us.

It's good to know the DV hotline is there.  I don't know that I'm comfortable with using it at this point. 

JADE seems to be a good place to start gaining ground.  I have no problem walking away from a blowup.  Some of the comments in the JADE conversation don't seem particularly helpful for my situation.  Comments like "I can see how you felt..." are interpreted as my admission of guilt and significantly turn up the attack on me.  But it doesn't seem to help when I walk away without JADEing.  The house just gets quiet and very tense, and continues on for days like this.  This is also a time when she tends to quietly destroy/take my things, or rip all my shirts off their hangers leaving a pile of my clothes in the closet.  Good fun.

Last night my wife accused our 16yo son of playing games on his phone all day, which he wasn't.  Everyone knew she was lashing out, he just happened to be the easy target.  It all flew out of control because my son has a strong sense of justice, and not much control of his words when treated unfairly.  After the dust settled he lost his phone for 2 days for speaking disrespectfully, and I was accused of being a deadbeat father for not jumping on her side of the argument.

I find these situations incredibly difficult.  To side with her when she's clearly wrong I believe damages our kids emotional growth.  To not side with her brings out a rage and hatred in her towards me that I'll deal with for weeks if not months.  I've tried to calmly communicate with her that it would be more effective to ask questions before lashing out or accusing.  I've also tried to suggest in tense situations she and I get on the same page before disciplining.  This seems to be a good option because before she explodes on the kids I can help turn the volume down on the event, then we agree on any discipline and I communicate it to the kids.  But it all goes to hell when she's triggered. 

Hard sigh.  It feels like we're all living with a trapdoor spider.  The question is not if we'll trigger her, it's when and how bad.  And of course all of this mess throws such difficult tension into my Christian faith, where principles like justice, love, peace, joy are very significant values.

Do you find there are sometimes historical trigger points that bring on BPD?  It seems like she completely changed after a traumatic life event we experienced between 2010-2013