BPD Apology -- and Long-Term Change?

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Among the many commonalities in stories on this board and online from people who have a BPD (or anxiety, CPTSD, etc.) ex. is repeat apologies.

That is, their ex. transgresses in a major way and apologizes, frequently promising to not do it again. But seemingly invariably, that ex. then does something else or even the same thing -- like lying or cheating -- rendering the previous apology and promise meaningless.

My question is has anyone ever had an ex. with BPD (or anxiety, CPTSD, etc.) who apologized for a major transgression and made promises -- and then actually followed through long term?

Now, we can all define long term differently, but for the sake of the question, let's just say more than three years. Similarly, we might define a major transgression differently, but I'd define it as something that seriously threatens the relationship and not the minor things that couples can argue about -- breaking a date or a white lie about some minor issue to not hurt feelings.

[HoratioX]

Among the many commonalities in stories on this board and online from people who have a BPD (or anxiety, CPTSD, etc.) ex. is repeat apologies.

That is, their ex. transgresses in a major way and apologizes, frequently promising to not do it again. But seemingly invariably, that ex. then does something else or even the same thing -- like lying or cheating -- rendering the previous apology and promise meaningless.

My question is has anyone ever had an ex. with BPD (or anxiety, CPTSD, etc.) who apologized for a major transgression and made promises -- and then actually followed through long term?

Now, we can all define long term differently, but for the sake of the question, let's just say more than three years. Similarly, we might define a major transgression differently, but I'd define it as something that seriously threatens the relationship and not the minor things that couples can argue about -- breaking a date or a white lie about some minor issue to not hurt feelings.

[EyesUp]

Not in my case.

I had some temporary success with boundaries, but relatively little in the way of reliability on anything from her side.

e.g., when I said "If you continue to mention divorce, there will be a divorce" she stopped threatening divorce for a few years.

However, when she agreed to work on budgets together, or when she said that her affair was a mistake, in relatively short order she was still spending, accusing me of being financially abusive because I was concerned about spending (while she was voluntarily unemployed), and she hopped on Ashley Madison to start a new affair...

Sure, she'd apologize now and then, but with resentment. I wish I had spotted that last part much sooner...

[seekingtheway]

When I look back at my other relationships, I notice growth was possible in many areas. Not all areas, but many. A collaborative approach to problems was always there, and big transgressions were not usually repeated, though patterns of relating are quite deeply ingrained in most people and aren't simple to fix, so there were repeated problems in those relationships too. The unsolveable problems, I think the Gottmans call those? Which are normal and to be expected in any relationship.

But with my ex with BPD, no, there wasn't much movement on any of the things that were causing us issues. The same things happened and I can't actually think of a single thing that I raised that was then solved and not repeated. I think the thing was the very confident assurances that certain things would 'definitely never happen again', or promises of certain things happening. But none of those things came to pass. I think that's where the difference was, the confident assurance of something that he probably knew he couldn't follow through with, so as not to lose the relationship. In the future, that's something I will need to be more aware of, big bold promises being made and not coming to pass...

[HoratioX]

Not in my case.

I had some temporary success with boundaries, but relatively little in the way of reliability on anything from her side.

e.g., when I said "If you continue to mention divorce, there will be a divorce" she stopped threatening divorce for a few years.

However, when she agreed to work on budgets together, or when she said that her affair was a mistake, in relatively short order she was still spending, accusing me of being financially abusive because I was concerned about spending (while she was voluntarily unemployed), and she hopped on Ashley Madison to start a new affair...

Sure, she'd apologize now and then, but with resentment. I wish I had spotted that last part much sooner...

This tracks. I found my ex. would often express what seemed heartfelt apologies and then return -- sometimes within a day -- to the same behaviors.

I'd agree about wishing to spot things sooner. I will say, my instincts said pretty early on something was off, but it wasn't until much later I got actual confirmation (or at least more evidence -- I'm not sure much was ever 100% confirmed because even if she admitted to wrongdoing, she could contradict that later).

[HoratioX]

When I look back at my other relationships, I notice growth was possible in many areas. Not all areas, but many. A collaborative approach to problems was always there, and big transgressions were not usually repeated, though patterns of relating are quite deeply ingrained in most people and aren't simple to fix, so there were repeated problems in those relationships too. The unsolveable problems, I think the Gottmans call those? Which are normal and to be expected in any relationship.

But with my ex with BPD, no, there wasn't much movement on any of the things that were causing us issues. The same things happened and I can't actually think of a single thing that I raised that was then solved and not repeated. I think the thing was the very confident assurances that certain things would 'definitely never happen again', or promises of certain things happening. But none of those things came to pass. I think that's where the difference was, the confident assurance of something that he probably knew he couldn't follow through with, so as not to lose the relationship. In the future, that's something I will need to be more aware of, big bold promises being made and not coming to pass...

It ultimately all just felt like empty bargaining to me, for whatever reason, to keep me in her life.

I'm asking the question, in part, so I can feel more confident giving advice to those who are or were in a relationship with someone with BPD (or similar) and believes after breaking it off they gave up on something with hope.  I don't believe there is much hope, and breaking it off is always the right thing to do.

I hold out for the possibility there is someone out there who came to enjoy great change and happiness with their relationship with someone with BPD (or similar). But I've not come across any accounts of this.

What I have seen is some people claiming people with BPD can go into remission, whatever that means.  If that's a total cessation of issues and transgressions -- like lying and cheating -- for an extended period of time -- years -- then I might say there is some hope. But it still feels like anyone choosing to stay in that relationship will spend a lot of time either consciously choosing to ignore the warning signs or living each day in the relationship waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[seekingtheway]

I'm not sure - I think there are stories out there of people with BPD who have stabilised through committed therapy, but I think they are the minority rather than the majority.

I can only speak from my own experience, and what we read on the boards here, and it's clear that long-lasted, meaningful change is hard to enact - for all of us - but there are so many people in the world whose stories we don't know... and I don't think I can handle the idea of a world where there is no hope for someone who truly desires change for themselves. I think there has to be hope for everyone. What we do with that hope is up to us. For us, on the healing side of a relationship with someone with BPD, I think the hope is that we learn our lessons, get healthy, get strong, and put ourselves at least equal first instead of last...

[EyesUp]

it's clear that long-lasted, meaningful change is hard to enact - for all of us

THIS.

My uBPDxw has made conspicuous changes since our D and objectively appears to be doing much better now than in the 2 years that preceded the D.  

However.

She's still prone to outbursts of anger and rages, and not just with me - we still interact because: kids - so I have some visibility.

She cycled through another job, "didn't like the people"...

She's still prone to conflict - there's always something wrong with a kid's coach / teacher / therapist / doctor / etc. - the focus is rarely on productive engagement, it's generally "this sucks, we need to do something else" i.e., bail and start over.

"The schools in this town are terrible" - the schools are in the top 10% in the state, in arguably the best public education state in the country...

Still has the same dynamics with her mother, father, sisters...  hot and cold.

So - in fairness, she's made some observable changes: remarried, new job (actually second new job), etc.  

However deeply seated patterns and behaviors continue, from what I can see.

In a sense, she's like any other midlife person - experiencing change. However the BPD aspects appear to be persistent, if somewhat tempered, when she's engaged or distracted with, you know, actual life...   it may be that BPDs, like everyone else, do change as they age and go through life's stages.  Is it the BPD that's changing, or some other aspects of how the self interacts with the rest of the world?

Like everything else - It probably varies from individual to individual.

[HoratioX]

I'm not sure - I think there are stories out there of people with BPD who have stabilised through committed therapy, but I think they are the minority rather than the majority.

I can only speak from my own experience, and what we read on the boards here, and it's clear that long-lasted, meaningful change is hard to enact - for all of us - but there are so many people in the world whose stories we don't know... and I don't think I can handle the idea of a world where there is no hope for someone who truly desires change for themselves. I think there has to be hope for everyone. What we do with that hope is up to us. For us, on the healing side of a relationship with someone with BPD, I think the hope is that we learn our lessons, get healthy, get strong, and put ourselves at least equal first instead of last...

I do think long-term change is a challenge for everyone, though that sentiment also, perhaps, creates a sense of parity that is unrealistic between someone who is flawed but healthy versus someone who is profoundly mentally ill or emotionally unstable and unhealthy.  I'd say the same about a sense of hope, not because I don't think on a moral level everyone deserves hope, but on a medical level, someone who is already quite ill has a much tougher road to travel.

A big reason I'm saying this is because I think these sentiments are what, unfortunately, can keep someone in a relationship with someone with BPD (or anxiety, CPTSD, etc.) much too long, to the degree that now they suffer greatly from the trauma inflicted.  Many, if not most of us, began to see problems in our exes that told us to run, but out of sympathy or empathy, as well as hope, chose to stay in that unhealthy relationship even though it had become toxic.

There is guilt involved, too, which is to say believing that ending a relationship with the ex., it could feel like we were abandoning them in their greatest time of need. We might well have been.  But the problem is if they're unlikely to change and their behavior is toxic and/or traumatic, now we are, to some degree, inflicting harm on ourselves.

So, this is why I look to see if people with BPD (and so forth) actually do in large numbers both apologize and then follow through with the appropriate changes in behavior. I think many of us are or were looking for that until it finally sunk in it wasn't going to happen. But if it's rare for such apologies to come, along with profound, meaningful change, I think it can be easier for us to not accept that ending the relationship was appropriate but also to advise others to consider doing the same.

[HoratioX]

THIS.

My uBPDxw has made conspicuous changes since our D and objectively appears to be doing much better now than in the 2 years that preceded the D.  

However.

She's still prone to outbursts of anger and rages, and not just with me - we still interact because: kids - so I have some visibility.

She cycled through another job, "didn't like the people"...

She's still prone to conflict - there's always something wrong with a kid's coach / teacher / therapist / doctor / etc. - the focus is rarely on productive engagement, it's generally "this sucks, we need to do something else" i.e., bail and start over.

"The schools in this town are terrible" - the schools are in the top 10% in the state, in arguably the best public education state in the country...

Still has the same dynamics with her mother, father, sisters...  hot and cold.

So - in fairness, she's made some observable changes: remarried, new job (actually second new job), etc.  

However deeply seated patterns and behaviors continue, from what I can see.

In a sense, she's like any other midlife person - experiencing change. However the BPD aspects appear to be persistent, if somewhat tempered, when she's engaged or distracted with, you know, actual life...   it may be that BPDs, like everyone else, do change as they age and go through life's stages.  Is it the BPD that's changing, or some other aspects of how the self interacts with the rest of the world?

Like everything else - It probably varies from individual to individual.

I do think people are individuals, too, but diseases tend to run similar courses. That's why the medical profession tends to operate not on absolutes but on percentages, with treatment not necessarily universal but following a methodology that subscribes to similar grounding. So, if a particular illness has a 90% likelihood of progressing the same way, the 10% where it does not is the exception, not the rule. Similarly, if 90% of people with BDP (and similar) apologize but then repeat the same behavior, perhaps multiple times, that's a pretty good predictor to be able to warn others in a relationship with someone with BPD their best course of action might include not taking an apology serious nor expecting a promise to be kept. 

[seekingtheway]

A big reason I'm saying this is because I think these sentiments are what, unfortunately, can keep someone in a relationship with someone with BPD (or anxiety, CPTSD, etc.) much too long, to the degree that now they suffer greatly from the trauma inflicted.  Many, if not most of us, began to see problems in our exes that told us to run, but out of sympathy or empathy, as well as hope, chose to stay in that unhealthy relationship even though it had become toxic.

This is very true - the empathy and hope does keep many of us stuck in relationships that are clearly unhealthy. We hope for many things, including for them to get treatment, we hope for the relationship to return to the honeymoon state that swept us off our feet, we hope for promises to be kept, we hope we are good enough for them to want to get better etc etc. It was the first thing my therapist said to me when I went to see her, that we need to obliterate hope, which was keeping me stuck.

But I think this kind of false hope is a separate thing to the hope that we can hold for our own growth and healing... because false hope is based on someone else changing, whereas hope for ourselves is something we have a lot more influence over.

Just re anxiety - I would class myself as someone with anxiety, and when I look back, I do still struggle with it just as I did when I was younger. But it's changed over the years. The way I manage it is different, and the awareness I have about how it affects people close to me is different. So in terms of how I am able to show up in a relationship, yes, I have changed... quite a lot, and I hope I will continue to change for the better in this regard. It's a longer, harder road for those who have more serious conditions than just straight-up anxiety.

I've seen enough stories of people with BPD making improvements, and enough experts who seem to collaborate with these claims that I do believe it's possible to make gains, though I think BPD is a life-long condition that is maintained rather than cured. And although I'm no expert, I suspect the likelihood of change depends on the skills, values and co-morbidities that already exist within that person. But again, I do think it's a minority, so it's a big risk to ever depend on someone changing.

To be honest, no matter what we tell people to do, I think most people are on their own learning trajectory... and the best we can sometimes do when others come for advice is to listen and encourage them to get in touch with their own intuition and knowing, to take care of their own needs and have as much empathy for themselves as they do for our partners - I think people tend to come to the right decision for themselves when they are able to do those things for themselves.

So. all in all, I think keeping hold of hope for ourselves and the human race is important... but learning when we are holding onto false hope in an unhealthy relationship and letting go of that is what allows us to break free and stay safe.