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Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
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Topic: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse (Read 1393 times)
WanderingLove
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Relationship status: Married
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Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
on:
January 19, 2025, 07:53:45 PM »
Seeking Advice: Supporting My Husband and Stepchildren in a BPD Family Dynamic
Hello All,
Thank you for being such a valuable resource. I’ve read extensively here and in books, but I need advice on a situation I haven’t seen addressed.
Background
My husband’s ex-wife is undiagnosed BPD (uBPD), and while my husband is kind, caring, and insightful (he’s a therapist), he is incredibly passive about protecting his two daughters from her emotional abuse.
When we met in 2018, I noticed the mother’s controlling and intrusive behavior toward the kids. For example:
She called the children up to 12 times a day when they were with him.
She guilted them into staying on the phone by saying they were “ungodly” if they wanted to hang up.
Exchanges were chaotic, filled with her manipulative and gaslighting behavior.
Despite this, my husband encouraged the girls to be polite and obedient to her, even when she was clearly being abusive.
The Move and Parenting Plan
After we married, his ex-wife announced she was moving to Alabama. My husband agreed to the move, and we relocated to Louisiana to be closer to his family. However, she changed her mind at the last minute, forcing him into a 4-days-a-month parenting plan since he now had to travel 2,500 miles to see his kids.
I expressed my fears in writing about how unsafe the girls would be in her care and urged him to seek therapy to understand his passive and permissive approach. He always said he’d “think about it” but never followed through.
The Current Situation
In recent months, both daughters have disclosed severe emotional and psychological abuse at their mother’s home:
Screaming, raging, and controlling behavior.
Throwing away their clothes in anger.
Denying them contact with safe people, including the ability to call the police.
The older child has even attempted suicide. The children are now begging their father to fight for full custody. However, my husband says he will only pursue 50/50 custody and insists that their mother is “just sick” and not intentionally harmful.
He has a lawyer and is pursuing 50/50 custody but refuses to read books, follow advice, or disclose the full extent of the abuse to his lawyer. Meanwhile, I’ve read books like Bill Eddy’s Splitting and have outlined strategies, but he won’t engage with them.
History with His Ex-Wife
He was married to his ex-wife for 15 years and endured significant emotional and physical abuse:
She ran him over with a car, scratched, bit, and hit him, and took the phone out of his hand when he tried to call the police.
He never filed charges, and he never initiated the divorce; she filed after he emotionally withdrew from the marriage.
Since their divorce, she’s remarried and divorced within four months, had multiple boyfriends, and continues to stall parenting negotiations.
My Concerns
I’ve told him I cannot stay in the marriage if he doesn’t get help to understand and address the core wounds that made him tolerate years of abuse and continue to freeze in the face of protecting his kids.
I’ve set a boundary that I won’t be available to him until he starts therapy, but after a week, he says he’s too overwhelmed to find a therapist or take action.
Meanwhile:
I’m states away from my support network, raising his nephew, and only able to contact the kids when they are with him.
The denial, passivity, and protection of his ex-wife are causing resentment and making me question if there’s any hope.
Seeking Insight
Has anyone experienced something similar and seen meaningful recovery from passivity like this?
Are there strategies to help someone like my husband recognize the need for therapy and take decisive action to protect his children?
Is it reasonable to have hope for our marriage and his personal growth if he continues to freeze in the face of this trauma?
Thank you in advance for your advice, stories, and insights.
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Notwendy
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #1 on:
January 21, 2025, 07:56:23 AM »
This is a difficult situation.
I'm the adult child of a mother with BPD. She is emotionally and verbally abusive. My father, like your H, was an intelligent, kind, and caring man. For some reason, which I can not explain, he seemed to "not see" my BPD mother's abusive behavior towards us children.
One unspoken but a main family "rule" was secrecy over BPD mother's behaviors. Not only was it expected we maintain that she's "normal" but that she also is a good mother.
I have some ideas of why it is possible your H might not "see" this. One is if he was raised with similar dynamics. As children, our family of origin is the only "normal" we know. If it is "normal" to us, we may not recognize it as not normal. It's hard to prove emotional abuse. We were not physically abused and our basic needs were met.
One reason for not addressing the abuse is that sadly, my father also was subjected to it and this has an emotional affect. Your H also experienced 15 years of it. Looking at an abusive relationship from the outside- one might see the abusive person as the issue and the partner a victim- but it is more complex than that. The partner is also part of the dynamics.
I also perceived my father as the victim of my BPD mother's behavior- until I had to work on my own co-dependent behaviors and understood how co-dependency is part of dynamics in relationships. I didn't "see" that these were not "normal" behaviors at first. They were "normalized" in my family of origin.
Be mindful of triangles. If your H's "normal" is denial and defense of his ex wife, your making direct statements about it may put you in the persecutor role on the Karpman triangle. Your H's rescuer behavior to his ex may be automatic for him. He may love you and his children, but lack the perception about his own behavior.
I think the two of you would benefit from therapy. If your H refuses- I think it would benefit you. This is because in any relationship - there's a dynamic between two people. You can not change him, but you can decide on your own responses. If it's a boundary on your part- that is OK- we all have our boundaries for relationships. But understanding the dynamics and how to best proceed might help and therapy can help untangle this.
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ABetterWay
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #2 on:
January 28, 2025, 09:43:37 AM »
I'm in a similar boat to you - a "stepmom" trying to navigate these rocky waters with a uBPD BM. I put stepmom in quotes because we aren't married, but do live together and operate as if we are. Looooong reply incoming:
This is... a really tough situation. Because we can't force someone to act. And there seems to be an extra layer of... dismissiveness or attachment to the BM by these guys if they haven't processed the prior full situation. And by that I mean the breakdown of the marriage, their role in it (because none of us are perfect), AND the fact that they were with a disordered person and all that entails. Until mine started working through the third item and setting some definitive boundaries BM was able to keep her pull on him and he seemed...scared to go against her. Instead when decisions were made (or not made) concerning the kids that he didn't like, he would just ostrich about them. He'd vent to me all of his frustrations, I'd help him make a plan/let him know my opinions that it wasn't "normal" and he should step up for his kids, and then he'd do... nothing. Because doing nothing was easier and/or it meant he wasn't getting screamed at. For us we were dealing with smaller issues - kids in need of haircuts, a non-emergent dental appointment (that turned into a bigger deal/abscessed tooth), and involvement with school to make sure schoolwork was getting done. It honestly took the kids coming to him directly for him to step in and do what he needed to do as a parent. There were giant fights along the way about how medical care and school were under "her domain", but it was becoming a big enough deal for him to just push through it. Now, if we hear from the kids that they need something and she's able to better provide it (kids are under her insurance, and she has them the majority of the school week), he brings it up to her. AND she knows that if she wants the "control" she needs to up and do it or he will. It took time to get to this place though.
And while he was working on standing up to her, I was in your shoes of being incredibly frustrated. I had the plans, the answers. I was the one doing the research, offering up solutions of how to broach things with her. Or encouraging him to just step up and parent - screw whatever she had to say as he had the same rights. It was exhausting. I tried posting on generic step parents boards, and those were not helpful. The general advice there is that the step parent cannot care more than the bio parents. Because our hands are tied in what we can affect, we'll just go insane. On a surface level, I hated it. These are KIDS - SOMEONE needs to step up and care! But deep down they are right. If So and I aren't on the same page about what needs to happen, I can't act. Individual therapy for me gave me the room to vent, ask hypothetical questions to see if what I thought were big issues that were being ignored were actually big or not, and the room/support to set my own boundaries in dealing with SO and BM. There were times where I told him that if things got to the point where it was needed, I would not hesitate to call CPS. And knowing that if I did so, he'd see it as a breach of trust and we'd probably be over. But I would still do it as a service to the kids. That I wouldn't stand by and see kids not get taken care of because their parents can't stop fighting/squabbling over whose "job" it is.
I also had to set boundaries around the venting and sharing of what was going on between him and BM. That I wasn't his therapist and he should go find one. In his need for transparent honesty he was going to tear us apart by heaping these problems and issues on my shoulders yet refuse to put in the work to fix them. He never did end up in therapy directly, but he did start confiding in some of his male friends (only to find they were in quite similar situations after all) and started doing the work himself with reading the books and seeking info. I have thrown out there before that I thought he was being abused in his prior relationship. He did not feel that way at all... and actually reacted viscerally against it. He's of the mindset that men don't get abused. Or they do, but not him. We were able to settle on the word choice of 'manipulated' and that seems to sit better with him. In my mind, they are one and the same, and he's processing his healing from that in the same ways. Now we can still have that honesty and it comes with what he has as a plan OR just that he's frustrated but feels it's small enough to not be a battle picked. In that case we log it for later in case we need to establish a pattern. I've also had to chill out and not see everything as an emergency/harmful to the kids. Refer back to me being in therapy for this one. I am big on fairness and injustice and personal responsibility. If you know anything about someone with BPD it's that... they are always the victim and responsible for nothing. He chooses to let things go for his own well being that I would fight for mine. However, I'm not the one getting yelled and screamed at or having to actually DO the fighting.
We have the kids much more often (every weekend and on Wednesdays) and we both use that time to focus on stability for the kids and showing them what's "normal". We encourage schoolwork and projects to get done and do what we can on our time. We're setting consistent bedtimes and even small things like a "structured" breakfast and lunch time seems to make a difference. Dinner is cooked at home 90-95% of the time AND it's eaten at the table all together. We encourage the kids to talk/ask BM for things they need (a form signed for school, the boy is ready for a haircut, etc) and let them know to a) tell us once they ask and b) if it hasn't been done (or an appt set up) and it's getting close to the due date or they can't stand it anymore, to let us know. At that point SO just signs the forms and for haircuts, he gives BM options. Get it done in the next week or he'll take care of it the next time we have them. (Side note - BMs control over hair for an 8yr old boy is in-sane to me. She won't let him have a say in how it's cut, and he always complains it's too short and he hates it. Poor dude). Same goes for needed non-emergent medical appointments - get it scheduled in a week (with proof), or he'll handle it himself. And we both make ourselves available during her custody time to support in either getting a kid to/from an appointment or in watching one or both of the other kids.
And all of this is working. The kids are finding their voices in asking for what they need. We're giving BM a chance to show that she can take care of something, while giving the kids a safety net for if it doesn't happen. BM can't stand it because we're still kind of calling the shots, but there's also not a whole lot she can do about it as she's given the option to be the "hero" first. Fights have settled, and there are now times where she steps up that she wasn't before. They make comments about the differences between houses and if there's a complaint we can fix, we do us. Example is Sunday exchange used to be at noon. The kids would say that BM didn't "feed them lunch". Food is available, she just doesn't turn off the flow of snacks and suggest a sandwich or leftovers or whatever. Whereas we do. In response, SO asked if we could move the exchange to 1pm, and now the kids eat lunch over here before going back.
If your H is going for 50/50 custody, I assume y'all are moving back to where his kids are? If not, how is he proposing the 50/50 schedule? I do agree that with the kids reaching out to him, 4 days a month and 2500 miles just aren't enough for the kids to get what they need OR the parent to be effective. I COMPLETELY understand the want for primary custody and how hard it is knowing that you can do a "better job" than BM. That's something I struggle with a lot - especially because I wasn't able to have kids of my own (adding an even more fun layer to all of this!). If your H is pushing for the 50/50, take that as a win and know that even with that the two of you can have a real and direct impact in improving these kids' lives. My SO will not make the move to be the primary parent, as he feels like he doesn't want to be the one to "tell" the kids they can't be with their mom. Instead he fully believes they'll make their own choice and in our direction as they get older and pick up on the differences. And he's... not wrong. We're already seeing the 8 and 7 year olds make comparisons and comments that while they love mom and their school and their house, they prefer the way we do things and that they kinda wish they could have both. The road hasn't been easy, and we aren't done by a long shot. We've both had to be very deliberate in communicating with each other and fixing any assumptions or misunderstandings on the spot. I call out when he gets defensive, he calls out when I assume the worst. One of the things I've learned in therapy is to get curious with each other. Why was that decision made? etc. It's really been within the last 6 months or so that we've seen big improvements in all of this. Hang in there!
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PeteWitsend
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #3 on:
January 28, 2025, 01:10:27 PM »
Quote from: ABetterWay on January 28, 2025, 09:43:37 AM
... I have thrown out there before that I thought he was being abused in his prior relationship. He did not feel that way at all... and actually reacted viscerally against it. He's of the mindset that men don't get abused. Or they do, but not him. We were able to settle on the word choice of 'manipulated' and that seems to sit better with him. In my mind, they are one and the same, and he's processing his healing from that in the same ways. ...
I was in his shoes in a r/s (it ended at engagement, but we never married) after I got divorced and lived with my fiancee for a while. We broke up for other reasons, but she struggled with this stuff. I did my best to shield her from the conflict, but for practical reasons, it would still affect us (e.g. my daughter would tell us about bad things happening at her mom's house, and I would have to drive long distances to pick my D up from school or drop her off there, b/c BPDxw moved out to the country).
I would remind my fiancee that it was easy for her to sit back and nitpick all this, because she didn't have to get actually get involved and get screamed at/insulted/etc. She could just point out the unfairness of the situation and basically cheer for a fight that she didn't have to get involved in. But really, the custody rules as set forth in most states tie your hands in terms of what you can and can't do; and courts aren't there to make things "fair" but just prevent actual child abuse, which they define very narrowly. As long as a child isn't starving, isn't being physically abused, and is getting to school most of the time, a court's not going to get involved.
And a lot of the things pwBPD do is intended to get a rise out of the other person... so as I would say, "
I'm not responding to BPDxw, not because I'm afraid of her, but because it's essentially wrestling in the mud with a pig.
"
She WANTS to argue and fight, so I'm not going to give her that. She tells my daughter I did this or that or don't really love her? I address that with my daughter, but I don't go and pick a fight with my XW b/c that's what she wants!
As far as the difference between being "abused" and being "manipulated" I think it's good you guys were able to work out how you discuss that. As a man, suffering abuse questions your ability to stand up for yourself and your family, so you telling him that - whether intended or not - he probably perceived as you questioning whether he could provide for you, or be the man you needed or wanted.
Quote from: ABetterWay on January 28, 2025, 09:43:37 AM
I've also had to chill out and not see everything as an emergency/harmful to the kids. Refer back to me being in therapy for this one. I am big on fairness and injustice and personal responsibility. If you know anything about someone with BPD it's that... they are always the victim and responsible for nothing. He chooses to let things go for his own well being that I would fight for mine. However, I'm not the one getting yelled and screamed at or having to actually DO the fighting.
...
Yes, like I said above, courts don't care about fairness. Some of that is just practical... they need consistent rules for divorced couples to follow, and it's not possible to draft a divorce decree that will operate fairly, considering the amount of events that can happen, especially given the length of time the decree will be in place (depending on the child's age at divorce, that could be 18 years!)
So as a non-custodial parent, there's only so many rights you have, and plenty of "gray area" around which a manipulative co-parent can make your life difficult.
And going back to court is expensive. I spent close to $20K to try to modify my decree, and while I got some concessions temporarily, the judge dismissed the matter without any permanent ruling. BPDxw was able to shape up and get her house in order enough that the inspections by the guardian ad litem attorney ruled in her favor for keeping the custody arrangement as is, this despite two calls to CPS about the house from one of BPDxw's family members that felt the conditions in the home were unhealthy for my D.
If it had gone to trial, I could've easily spent over $50K.
Fairness costs a lot...
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ABetterWay
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #4 on:
January 29, 2025, 09:23:17 AM »
Everything I was writing was from the viewpoint of the 3rd party/"step" parent, and my thought process and changes over time. Which is what the OP is. And quite frankly, there's not a lot of current/recent info or people in this position on the board right now. Kels is pretty much it, and has clearly put in the work/already worked through some of these issues and insights yet can still struggle with knowing when to step in and when to not. Like everyone else on here dealing with someone with BPD it takes time, and we have to figure things out as we go. It's not a "normal" experience - none of it is. Stepping into a blended family is hard on it's own. Stepping in to one with a dysfunctional relationship(s)? Whole new ball game. So while yes - grace and understanding and all needs to be given to the guy that has left the BPD BM, the same needs to be extended to the one coming in. Or - it doesn't work. A foundation and boundaries HAVE to be laid or the new party will always feel less than. Jerked around. Not as important. It takes a lot of communication and work, and from the side of the ex to the BPD as well. If my SO continued his "it is what it is and you just have to accept it" routine, we wouldn't still be together either. OP is struggling with the fact that her husband is a bit stuck in the "is what it is" phase and isn't helping his kids set boundaries around phone time, chaotic exchanges, or more recently, being available to his girls.
And no, not everything can be solved in the courtroom. That gets talked about a lot here. But what is ALSO talked about is the importance of being the stable secure household, and being available and involved when possible. To show the kids what IS normal... and what isn't. With OP's husband sticking his head in the sand some, he's not providing needs for his kids. My examples were to show that things can be done - outside of the courtroom - and without full/primary custody that still supports the kids.
Excerpt
As far as the difference between being "abused" and being "manipulated" I think it's good you guys were able to work out how you discuss that. As a man, suffering abuse questions your ability to stand up for yourself and your family, so you telling him that - whether intended or not - he probably perceived as you questioning whether he could provide for you, or be the man you needed or wanted.
I mean this as respectfully as possible but... no. Sorry - hands down, no. By definition it is emotional and often physical abuse. Is dealing with being a victim of abuse hard? 100% I know first hand from my own struggles and experiences. It absolutely brings up insecurities in EVERYONE - guys and gals. Our conversation actually sprung off from me talking about my experience, and then us noticing some similarities (my ex didn't have a personality disorder, but did/does have his own set of anger issues). I just pointed out the obvious in the moment. Regardless we have to put in the work ourselves to move past it, or it eats you alive. Calling it something else is what he needed to take the first step in healing. But I'm not jumping on the masculine fragility/"as a man" aspect of it. Nope.
Everyone
can feel "less than" in different ways and areas for staying, or letting it happen, or what have you. It's the guilt and shame of "allowing" yourself to be a victim that does you in. And that isn't limited or driven by our gender. The big part of that whole paragraph from my viewpoint was that sometimes it's helpful to reframe things IF it gets the other person to deal with their mess. Not band-aid and tip toe around it.
I'm not saying that what you have to say isn't valid from the guy's side, but I do disagree that things just "are the way they are" in these cases. I think there is room for the former BPD partner to heal to have a better relationship with the next person. And if the former BPD partner isn't willing to take those steps then... the new relationship likely isn't going to make it. Because it's not fair to ask someone to be involved and care about these kids, then not do their part in smoothing out the dysfunction where possible. And it doesn't mean OP's husband will. But there may be others in our shoes that are also struggling lurking and not commenting. Based on your prior relationship with someone that also had similar thoughts, I think it's fair to say that they are common struggles. All I'm offering is the path
I've
taken so far and what has (or hasn't) worked.
@WanderingLove - I see you and I fully understand the difficult position you're in. I'm here to tell you it is HARD, but if you can get your H on board to communicate and put in the work in dealing with his BPD ex, then it DOES get better with time. But without that willingness to move on, I can understand why you'd put up the ultimate boundary that you have. It isn't easy to sit back and know that the kids deserve something better, but in our positions we can't really force it. We can advise and influence, but only if the party that can act is open and willing.
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Notwendy
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #5 on:
January 29, 2025, 11:07:02 AM »
Quote from: ABetterWay on January 29, 2025, 09:23:17 AM
And no, not everything can be solved in the courtroom. That gets talked about a lot here. But what is ALSO talked about is the importance of being the stable secure household, and being available and involved when possible. To show the kids what IS normal... and what isn't. With OP's husband sticking his head in the sand some, he's not providing needs for his kids. My examples were to show that things can be done - outside of the courtroom - and without full/primary custody that still supports the kids.
I mean this as respectfully as possible but... no. Sorry - hands down, no. By definition it is emotional and often physical abuse. Is dealing with being a victim of abuse hard? 100% I know first hand from my own struggles and experiences. It absolutely brings up insecurities in EVERYONE - guys and gals.
As an adult child of a mother with BPD - thank you for standing up for these kids. My parents didn't divorce but we spent time with my father's family and they took on this role for us. This had a huge positive impact on us. I have also said this to Kells. I also recognize that being the step mother has its own unique challenges.
To address the sort of denial and passivity you describe with relation to the abuse in the relationship to the husband and the children, this also occurred in my family. There wasn't physical abuse, or neglect of our basic needs- and so it wasn't visible and it also was something we had to keep quiet about. My father- to whom I owe my well being to as a child, who supported us and provided for us, also somehow seemed to not perceive the situation as abusive.
From the adult perspective- I thought my father was in an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship, but there's no way to understand all that goes on between two people from outside the relationship. There was no physical abuse. Verbal and emotional abuse, manipulative behavior was "normalized" in our family. I think over time, it became accepted as "normal". I also think that the romantic bond has its unique dynamics. He had fallen in love with my mother and I think he wanted to see the best in her.
I also wonder if it's a "male role" or "female role" although these roles are becoming less traditional now. For my father, providing for us was a main role and a crucial one. He was the sole provider. We all depended on him. He also had the additional task of dealing with my BPD mother and her behavior. There's only so much a person can do. This doesn't excuse abusive behavior but as adult children, we need to accept that our parents did the best they knew to do, or were capable of doing, at the time.
Traditionally, mothers are expected to be the nurturers. It's possible that when we as mothers see children who are lacking in what they need emotionally- we become protective. It's possible you see what is lacking for your step children better than your H can. I do agree that if the step mother is doing most of the emotional work of parenting- it can lead to resentment. But if the consequence of you stepping back negatively affects the children, that compromises your values as a parent. And yet, also the marriage. It's difficult.
I think PeteWitsend also stated this when he wrote:
As a man, suffering abuse questions your ability to stand up for yourself and your family, so you telling him that - whether intended or not - he probably perceived as you questioning whether he could provide for you, or be the man you needed or wanted.
I think that bringing up abuse could feel shaming. I think that (in the traditional sense) a man sees himself as provider and protector of his family. Domestic abuse to men does exist, and yet, I think it's less reported because of this shame.
ABetterWay - you make some excellent observations. I think that anyone who is or has been in a relationship with someone with BPD would benefit from counseling- and also for spouses and even both together if this impacts their marriage.
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...
Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #6 on:
January 29, 2025, 01:48:03 PM »
Quote from: WanderingLove on January 19, 2025, 07:53:45 PM
She called the children up to 12 times a day when they were with him.
She guilted them into staying on the phone by saying they were “ungodly” if they wanted to hang up.
Exchanges were chaotic, filled with her manipulative and gaslighting behavior.
Exchanges were always a difficult time for me, my ex would always complain about me and make scenes. While the pickups were okay with my son running to me, drop offs initially had him crying and begging to stay with me. In a few years he became accustomed to them.
Repeated calls to the children and refusing a reasonable end to a call is unreasonable. That is an abuse of phone privileges. Younger children especially don't have the attention span for extended calls.
My court order listed the standard non-specific "reasonable phone calls". One weekend my cell phone got wet and died and took a few days to get replaced. I set up my cell's greeting to state that and to call the house phone. Well, she didn't. Rather, we had a court hearing the next week and she immediately claimed I wasn't letting her call her child. Without asking me my side - what really had happened - the magistrate ordered a set time for daily evening phone calls, thereby that inflexibility cut into all our activities. A few years later another magistrate removed that restriction.
Quote from: Notwendy on January 29, 2025, 11:07:02 AM
Traditionally, mothers are expected to be the nurturers.
Going back a few centuries, men had the authority. Gradually society moved away from that perspective until we had the nurturing aspect of the "Tender Years Doctrine" favoring mothers. The problem is the same as before, not all fathers nor all mothers are the better or more nurturing parent. So in recent decades many family courts - or states - have taken a new position that the default should be 50/50. That seems more equitable except that it's still quite expensive and time consuming to set or fix an appropriate court order.
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Notwendy
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #7 on:
January 29, 2025, 03:40:28 PM »
I agree, FD, one shouldn't assume that the mother is nurturing in custody cases.
I was wondering about this situation- husband of BPD wife has been in an emotionally and verbally abusive situation, but he's also concerned about his job, earning a living, and there's only so much he can handle. In addition, he's emotionally stressed out by BPD wife's behavior. BPD wife is blaming him for the issues. Eventually, this becomes a "normal" for him. He's just trying to get by.
Marriage ends and now the husband has chosen a caring and nurturing wife, and step mother to the children, who sees the disorder and becomes concerned. His way of coping has been to not "see" it. Pointing it out feels unfair to him- he's done all he knew to do for the family. The shame that he and the kids have been ( and still are) abused is very difficult emotionally.
Just an idea--
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Notwendy
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #8 on:
January 29, 2025, 04:06:14 PM »
It's difficult for the step mother - which is the topic of this thread. Trying to post the other perspective to hopefully share some insight on the dad's situation- why there's denial. That doesn't make any abuse acceptable. These are tough situations.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #9 on:
January 30, 2025, 04:45:12 PM »
Quote from: ABetterWay on January 29, 2025, 09:23:17 AM
... Stepping into a blended family is hard on it's own. Stepping in to one with a dysfunctional relationship(s)? Whole new ball game. So while yes - grace and understanding and all needs to be given to the guy that has left the BPD BM, the same needs to be extended to the one coming in. Or - it doesn't work. A foundation and boundaries HAVE to be laid or the new party will always feel less than. Jerked around. Not as important. It takes a lot of communication and work, and from the side of the ex to the BPD as well. If my SO continued his "it is what it is and you just have to accept it" routine, we wouldn't still be together either. ...
I agree 100%, and was not trying to excuse any misbehavior noted in this thread. I took pains to keep my issues with my BPDXW separate from my then-current relationship. It is hard to do so perfectly, but I never allowed my XW to come into our home, meet my new partner, call excessively, or have any control over our lives. I set pretty clear boundaries up front after I got divorced, so I wasn't involved. Perhaps BPDxw was less demanding of me because she got into another relationship soon after we divorced, but regardless, if she was calling my daughter multiple times a day, asking for money beyond the child support I paid, limiting my contact with my daughter, or asking other demands of my time, there was no way I was going to go along with any of that.
By the time I entered into a later serious relationship, I think BPDxw had given up trying to ask me to do things or intrude on my parenting time.
That being said, I don't think my fiancee appreciated everything I had done to set boundaries, nor was she very understanding of the situation. of course, before we lived together, she was very different on all these issues, leading me to suspect that she was somewhat dishonest in terms of her behavior because she really just wanted to move in with me and have me take care of everything, and my daughter became a hindrance to my fiancee's own wants, so I felt like she pulled a bit of a bait and switch. Heck, she might've been on the spectrum too.
I often felt like I was damned if I do, damned if I don't, and she would frequently include criticism of how my marriage went south & my coparenting, with complaints about our current relationship, so I was almost fighting a war on two fronts.
I am
NOT
saying you're doing anything like that to your partner, just letting you know where I was coming from. It is a rough situation all around when a pwBPD is involved. I always made it a point to acknowledge that, but in my view it had been getting better, and I tried to communicate that to my fiancee, that the situation would eventually be over when my D was older and could look out for herself more. And of course, when she was an adult, we'd have no further contact with my ex whatsover.
Quote from: ABetterWay on January 29, 2025, 09:23:17 AM
And no, not everything can be solved in the courtroom. That gets talked about a lot here. But what is ALSO talked about is the importance of being the stable secure household, and being available and involved when possible. To show the kids what IS normal... and what isn't. With OP's husband sticking his head in the sand some, he's not providing needs for his kids.
I also agree with this. Concern for my D was really the only reason I stayed married as long as I did, and took pains to read about how things would go for her and how things would play out in the long run. Both this board, and some of the books on the topic emphasized that giving kids an example of how to behave was essential and could counteract the negative parenting and behavior they'd learn from the BPD parent. My calculus was that if I stayed married, my daughter would be exposed to the fighting and "BPD behavior" 100% of the time, but if I got divorced, at least I could give her peace and a calm environment when she was with me (which is not 50%, but the maximum default I could get in my state, which comes out to about 40% of the time)
I made sure our D had a competent therapist and he validated this, and went further telling me that kids are smarter than we give them credit for, and even at an early age reason and weigh the credibility of the adults in their lives. The important thing was to help the kids learn that they can trust their instincts and their own experience, and not allow the BPD parent to skew their perception of the world.
Quote from: ABetterWay on January 29, 2025, 09:23:17 AM
I mean this as respectfully as possible but... no. Sorry - hands down, no. By definition it is emotional and often physical abuse. Is dealing with being a victim of abuse hard? 100% I know first hand from my own struggles and experiences. It absolutely brings up insecurities in EVERYONE - guys and gals. ....
I also agree with you here. I was just complimenting your approach to discussing this, and explaining why your partner may have had a hangup over the word "abuse." But yes, pwBPD - men or women - absolutely abuse their partners, and gender here isn't the issue in terms of the dynamic.
I was just thinking he might've felt it was an attack, especially if you had been disagreeing with other things generally, even if you didn't mean it that way.
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PeteWitsend
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #10 on:
January 30, 2025, 05:01:27 PM »
Quote from: WanderingLove on January 19, 2025, 07:53:45 PM
...
My Concerns
I’ve told him I cannot stay in the marriage if he doesn’t get help to understand and address the core wounds that made him tolerate years of abuse and continue to freeze in the face of protecting his kids.
I’ve set a boundary that I won’t be available to him until he starts therapy, but after a week, he says he’s too overwhelmed to find a therapist or take action.
Meanwhile:
I’m states away from my support network, raising his nephew, and only able to contact the kids when they are with him.
The denial, passivity, and protection of his ex-wife are causing resentment and making me question if there’s any hope.
Seeking Insight
Has anyone experienced something similar and seen meaningful recovery from passivity like this?
Are there strategies to help someone like my husband recognize the need for therapy and take decisive action to protect his children?
Is it reasonable to have hope for our marriage and his personal growth if he continues to freeze in the face of this trauma?
Thank you in advance for your advice, stories, and insights.
Your situation is really tough. Even though I was in your husband's position, I never allowed BPDxw to behave to the extent he has, nor did I invalidate my D's complaints about her mom's house like that. Maybe that's because I was more assertive up front, or maybe it was because my BPDxw was just not as aggressive and violent as his. I did feel like I was in a bad position sometimes, when my D asked why she couldn't spend more time with me.
The advice I got from several people (including her T) was to mention the divorce decree and how a judge made the rules, and I couldn't change them right now, which I did.
I did sue at one point to flip custody, but as I mentioned above, for a variety of reasons, despite two CPS calls on BPDxw's house and other issues, a judge and GAL attorney didn't agree with me and tossed my case.
I think you're right to place an ultimatum like that on your husband. His behavior is absolutely baffling here, and the fact that he tolerates so much of this speaks poorly of his ability to maintain healthy boundaries, and stand up for himself. So much so that I think it could be a sign of future problems for you even in your marriage, although I'm not sure what those could be.
Are there strategies to help someone like my husband recognize the need for therapy and take decisive action to protect his children?
I know we talk about the prospects of getting a pwBPD to recognize their issues and seek therapy, and they're not good. And not just seek therapy, but seek meaningful therapy and actually work through their problems to improve the situation. I don't know.
I think all you can do is what you have done, namely inform him that you cannot stay in this marriage given his behavior, and provide specifics of what you want to see done.
I think also that you should acknowledge you know he's not going to be able to control his wife, but you need to see him manage her behavior more assertively. You're not looking for perfection here, you're looking to see some effort.
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Notwendy
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Re: Spouse's Ex is uBPD and Abusing Children, Spouse is Passive About The Abuse
«
Reply #11 on:
January 31, 2025, 01:19:45 PM »
I have empathy for WanderingLove- I also would want to intervene at any abuse of a child. With my own children, I did have boundaries with BPD mother. (they are adults now and have their own), even though this caused friction between me and my parents.
What was different about my situation is that my mother is not the custodial parent. My children weren't mandated to spend time with her. I could have more control of the situation.
As an adult, I also stepped in naively in an attempt to mitigate abuse of my father- and learned just how difficult it is to intervene in these situations. Sometimes our attempts to intervene even made it worse for him and also us.
Your H may be passive, or he may be "battle weary", or both. I wish you all the luck in this endeavor.
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