Progress in growing a spine?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Last weekend I was visiting mom.

(Long history short, she can't put in her own eye drops because of Parkinson's, but has cancelled the home care eye service repeatedly in the past.  She's 88 and infirm.)

I hadn't even been there two minutes when she started right in on  how she couldn't handle home care coming 4 X a day to put her drops in.  She launched into it already on a roll...

In the past, I would have been kind, caring, listening, validating, you name it. I am soooo done with all that.  It's called full blown burn out.

"Mom I'm not having this conversation now.  You NEED the eye drops to retain what vision you have left.  You can't do your own drops.  So whether you like it or not they  have to come in to give you your drops.  If you speak of this further, I'm leaving". 

Then I realized I didn't have my phone on me, so I went to the door to my jacket to get my phone.  Her eyes were glued to me. 

When I got back with my phone, she never spoke of it again and we talked about other things.

I have heard from her friends that she's telling them the same thing.  They too are telling her she can't do them herself.

It just goes against my nature to speak like that to her.  I hate it that that's how I have to navigate a "mother".

[Methuen]

Last weekend I was visiting mom.

(Long history short, she can't put in her own eye drops because of Parkinson's, but has cancelled the home care eye service repeatedly in the past.  She's 88 and infirm.)

I hadn't even been there two minutes when she started right in on  how she couldn't handle home care coming 4 X a day to put her drops in.  She launched into it already on a roll...

In the past, I would have been kind, caring, listening, validating, you name it. I am soooo done with all that.  It's called full blown burn out.

"Mom I'm not having this conversation now.  You NEED the eye drops to retain what vision you have left.  You can't do your own drops.  So whether you like it or not they  have to come in to give you your drops.  If you speak of this further, I'm leaving". 

Then I realized I didn't have my phone on me, so I went to the door to my jacket to get my phone.  Her eyes were glued to me. 

When I got back with my phone, she never spoke of it again and we talked about other things.

I have heard from her friends that she's telling them the same thing.  They too are telling her she can't do them herself.

It just goes against my nature to speak like that to her.  I hate it that that's how I have to navigate a "mother".

[Notwendy]

In the past, I would have been kind, caring, listening, validating, you name it. I am soooo done with all that.  It's called full blown burn out.

"Mom I'm not having this conversation now.  You NEED the eye drops to retain what vision you have left.  You can't do your own drops.  So whether you like it or not they  have to come in to give you your drops.  If you speak of this further, I'm leaving". 

It just goes against my nature to speak like that to her.  I hate it that that's how I have to navigate a "mother".

Me too Methuen! This is not how I would want to speak to my mother but I do this too- because, I also feel at my emotional limit with her behavior.

You aren't being mean- you are establishing a boundary- correctly because a boundary doesn't control what they do, it lets them know what we will do. You didn't order her to be quiet. You said- I can not have this conversation- and stated the consequences if she continued.

You did good!!

[zachira]

Methuen,
I am so proud of you. You are working hard to figure out what boundaries to set with your mother. It seems that disordered people have a radar for knowing what they can get away with and with whom. Your mom is on notice that you will not listen to her toxic upsetting comments anymore, and you will leave if she does not respect your wishes.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother responds to unwavering boundaries. She's been in skilled nursing, refusing to get out of bed and saying she wants to go back to her assisted living. But if she goes now, she would be almost completely bedridden there and her care is not as high there- so she'd just have to deal with it there.

Medicare won't pay for staying for PT if the patient refuses to participate or doesn't make progress. So the natural consequence- the dischard was scheduled and plans were made to send her back.

Guess who is suddenly cooperating, getting out of bed, and walking with her walker?

The boundary wasn't mean, it wasn't intended to be hurtful. It is a fact- if you don't get out of bed and work with PT, you will be discharged. And it turned out to be a good thing.

Yours too. You won't get into the issue with the eye drops with her. She has to deal with home health and that is that ( and also better for her)

[Methuen]

Thanks guys.  Your approval means a lot.  Also the recognition of how yucky it feels to have to be like this as the daughter.

Coincidentally, I saw my T this afternoon. 

She put it in terms of Internal Family Systems Theory.

One of my parts is Resentment.  I've written about it on the forum.  This part is desperately needing to know that mother's needs and demands and behaviors are unreasonable, unfair, and never should have been put on the adult me, much less little Methuen.  Over the last 25 years (since dad's illness followed by his death) she has been life sucking.

Another "part" is Guilt.  Guilt feels like she hasn't been a good enough daughter.

And those two parts are at odds with each other.

Like you, she assured me I had done exactly the right thing, and took it a step further and said that if I had actually left instead of just getting my phone, it would have been a boundary she supported fully.

So I  guess I'm relieved and happy to have it affirmed I handled it appropriately.  Even though it felt horrible

[zachira]

It may not seem like it, and you are helping your mother by setting healthier boundaries with her. It does not help anybody to tolerate bad behaviors, including the person acting badly. You did not allow your mother to wallow in her unhappiness and to keep complaining.

[Notwendy]

Even though it felt horrible

It does feel horrible. We have been raised to feel it's not allowed to say no or have boundaries. Also, my BPD will go into waif mode and act hurt and that feels horrible, until you see her get what she wants and snap out of it.

BPD mother dislikes boundaries and will push against them. But boundaries are not a bad thing, and not a hurtful thing. Not having boundaries and enabling are possibly hurtful things.

Sometimes acting in someone's best interest is not the same as making them happy.

It's in your mother's best interest to rely on the home health workers. They can do a better job of meeting their medical needs than you can.

I have seen where health care workers do a better job with my mother because they don't feel horrible holding on to boundaries that are in her best interest. They don't have the same dynamics with her. They can be firm with her- which is what she needs.

You did good!!

[GaGrl]

Nothing you said was mean. It was a factual, objective statement with a clear boundary added.

You layered in the feelings. That's something to remember. It's just the consequence of not having been able to say No or Stop for most of your lifetime.

You did good!

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi Methuen 

Absolutely! Here's a revised version with a gentler approach:

I agree with others that you were not mean at all. You were kind and firm. As daughters of bps, we often perceive ourselves as "mean" when we don't give in to them or let them vent on us. This is our distorted thinking that we can work on for our own benefit.

I've noticed that when I gently but firmly tell my mother that it's best to move on from a topic, she actually becomes a bit calmer. It seems to interrupt her rumination on the subject and gives her a sense of control over her decision. It's similar to how saying "no" to a child can sometimes calm them down during a tantrum.

Kudos to you.

[Vanilla Sky]

Please ignore the first sentence. I am not a native English speaker and sometimes I sound too harsh due to the lack of the right words

[Notwendy]

Hi Methuen 

As daughters of bps, we often perceive ourselves as "mean" when we don't give in to them or let them vent on us. This is our distorted thinking that we can work on for our own benefit.

Vanilla Sky is a great movie. It's been a while since I've seen it but I did like it!

I can relate to the "feeling mean" when having boundaries with BPD mother. I have also noticed that if I let up on them, or show empathy- it becomes an opportunity for her to run over the boundaries.

I also agree that staying calm and firm- (not gruff or angry, but gently firm) helps lower the drama in conversations.