Update

[kells76]

Always a mix here, as usual  

SD18 was job hunting for months and nothing turned up. I randomly asked a manager at my work if his department (entry level stuff) was hiring, and he said yes, they were desperate for people, and send the resume! I asked SD18 if she would like me to do that for her (she'd already emailed me her resume so I could print it at work for her, but I didn't want to overfunction) and she said yes. Long story short she started last week, different building but same worksite as me  

It feels... purposeful, somehow, that nothing else worked out but this. Not sure the meaning of it yet, but grateful SD18 has full time employment that is safe and indoors and not too difficult or stressful.

We accidentally wore the same outfit on her first day   and she was OK with me giving her a hug and kiss when I dropped her off. I go over and visit a couple times a week but am working on giving her space. She is using our car (different shift than I'm on) so H and I need to set up time to talk with her about expectations for contributing to gas/insurance. It is good that H and I are on the same page that yes, we want to give SD18 100% support in being gainfully employed, and it's good for her to not have that be "free".

What's also interesting is that Stepdad works in job coaching/helping people get jobs. For the longest time the kids would always be like, no, we won't really need your help with finding a job or writing a resume, because Stepdad does that stuff. So it's interesting and again feels meaningful? somehow, that I was the one making this happen; not in an "I'm so great" way, but for the two-family dynamic we've had for over a decade, this is a new role for me to be in, where I'm not holding back and trying not to step on toes.

I haven't heard anything yet about Mom or Stepdad having a problem with SD18 working at my workplace. Mom struggles when there is positive information about me or H that the kids hear and that she is not party to or in control of. People at my work telling SD18 nice things about me would seem to qualify. She may be too distracted by her own adult relationships right now (sounds like she still has a girlfriend... maybe?), though, to care? We'll see.

...

We're still taking SD16 to school most mornings, so that's good. It's been tricky because she's been either sick or at school events on H's weekday afternoon with her for a few weeks in a row. I have to work at not getting anxious and wound up about H losing time with SD16. That feeling goes back many years.

I was doing the school drive the other day and SD16 was venting about being sick and getting her period at the same time, so I commiserated. Then she said it was annoying because there were no pads at Mom's house. I didn't have any on me, but offered that we could stop at the store before school (she hates the school pads). She said she thought she'd be OK. I also texted later that I'd be happy to grab some and drop them off with her, but she didn't reply, so I assumed she solved it herself. But hearing that kind of thing sends me back to the many years where we'd hear the kids say something that was like a 5/10 on its own -- rats in the basement at Mom's, then rats under the bedroom door, mattress broken, no smoke detectors, stove broken, etc etc -- and while each instance wouldn't warrant intervention, after a while it all built up and then when SD18 disclosed the DV, it was like, we had to call. So hearing "there's no pads at Mom's" I think is reminding me of that buildup of "little" things, so are we back to that again?

SD16 has a good friend (maybe best friend?) right now who seems like a great person, and SD16 invites this friend over to our place and to Mom's place. The friend tends to be pretty blunt and outspoken and not really have a filter, so we do hear things about Mom now and then ("nobody at your mom's house wants to do chores or clean").

We were out with SD16 and the friend recently, and ran into Stepdad. It's not like we live in a small town, so it was difficult to feel like I was "safe" and then suddenly there he was. The place we were at was big enough that H and I just turned around and did something else. I think SD16 chatted with him for a bit but we didn't have the "can my friend and I just go with Stepdad to Mom's" move that maybe would've happened in the past.

I felt like I had no skills, though. As soon as I realized it was him, it was like all my tools were gone and I was in tunnel vision survival mode. It was extremely stressful, including physically. I could not be around him or look at him, I just wanted to be gone and for it to be over. So that's still going on.

Later, after the friend went home, I was saying something like "wow, it's so different to be eating together without Friend", and SD16 said "well, once Friend turns 18, she's going to move into Mom's house" -- and then SD18 gave an odd look to SD16.

For context, Friend lives with her dad (mom not in the picture for a few years) and the way the kids describe the dad is "abusive" though it's hard to say how accurate that is. The dad sounds more on the authoritarian side of the parenting spectrum (controlling, not direct communication) but I'm not sure I've heard anything more than that.

Part of me is irked that Mom, who literally had a CPS call about her house, is now talking about "rescuing" another teen from an "abusive" home... as if her own home and behavior (and Stepdad's) wasn't abusive and neglectful.

But I'm not going in mental circles on that. There's nothing I can control about that situation, there are actually some logistical hurdles that might make it not happen, Mom tends to say all kinds of wonderful/amazing things and not follow through, and I've learned to "believe it when I see it".

H brought up on his own, and I agreed, that SD16 seems to be behind developmentally compared to chronological age -- maybe a year or two, so age 16+ but acting more 15. It's fine, and it's good that we are on the same page about it, and I think we'll just have to keep an eye on what SD16 needs at 18 & 19. Probably going to be a different trajectory than SD18 who is a little more independent right now.
...

H and I are doing okay, but it's not easy. The last ~4 years have been extremely difficult. My T has suggested that we never had a normal start to our marriage and in a sense, we're doing the Gottman stages of a relationship in reverse -- we didn't start with "just us" and building a life as a couple before adding kids, and our instant start with kids was at an 11/10 and took essentially all our focus and energy for years. So we have done a lot of conflict management as a couple, and now, as the kids are kind of "aging out" of family life, it's like we're reversing through the stages back to "couple with no kids".

We have never grieved together about the losses and pain over the course of our marriage, and I still don't know if now is the right time to start doing that. It feels like we have to grit our teeth and "hold it together" a few more years because at any moment, there could be a new crisis where we have to be functional, not puddles on the ground.

I don't know if there's a "good" way vs "bad" way to navigate this. Maybe there's just "worse" and "less bad" ways to cope with being a couple and processing the past while the potential for crisis still looms.

...

This has not been easy and has made it hard for me to recommend stepparenting to anyone. But I think our situation was also an outlier, especially psychologically (emotional manipulation/enmeshment of the kids).

I guess in terms of the kids, my goals are to preserve our relationships and keep open communication, and to make it thru the next 1-2 years without needing to call CPS again. My T occasionally hears things about Stepdad (friend of a friend type social connections) and I asked her that if she ever hears something that might merit a call, that she just do it without telling me. I think it might be better for the kids if I'm not the one calling again.

The kids are healthy and funny and I love them and also (most of the time ) like them. Our setup isn't exactly what I'd want (time split is nowhere near fair) but it is what it is at this point. We have some future plans with each of them to look forward to, so that's positive.

Hope this update is as exciting as it gets for a long, long time  

[ForeverDad]

Always a mix here, as usual   ...

What's also interesting is that Stepdad works in job coaching/helping people get jobs. For the longest time the kids would always be like, no, we won't really need your help with finding a job or writing a resume, because Stepdad does that stuff. So it's interesting and again feels meaningful? somehow, that I was the one making this happen; not in an "I'm so great" way, but for the two-family dynamic we've had for over a decade, this is a new role for me to be in, where I'm not holding back and trying not to step on toes.

While life is surely a mix, this validation deserves

[Notwendy]

Kells, I think you have done a phenomenal job with the kids. It's a difficult situation, at best, but you have been a stable mother to them.

As teens, they aren't fully aware of all the positive impact you have for them- but it's there.

Relationships with adult children still continue. I think you are seeing this with SD 18- and it's a positive one. What will change is that you will have less to do with the kids BPD mother. One situation to explore - in therapy- is how to handle the chance or occasion encounters with her and SD. Contact with them will happen on occasion- if there are weddings, graduations, and how to manage these situations, so you don't feel like you froze and didn't know what to do.

The rescuing the friend situation- at times, my BPD mother seems to have made friends with women my age and acted in the role of "motherly person" to them. It does feel odd.

Looking at this through the BPD lense- since BPD affects the closest relationships the most- they tend to "hold it together" better with people they don't know as well. It would then make sense that she's able to act "motherly" with people she doesn't have the same connection or history with- or the responsibilities. She doesn't have the responsibilities of motherhood with these people- she can interact in a way that somehow meets her needs with them.

Whatever the kids mother is doing with this friend, it's meeting her needs somehow. Maybe it's her own way of dealing with the possible empty nest. Maybe it's a way of keeping SD 16 attached to her since it's her best friend. Also, it may not happen. BPD mother may change her mind. The friend may decide on other plans at 18.

I hope you and your H can find more time to be a couple.

[kells76]

While life is surely a mix, this validation deserves

Thanks for being here on the journey all these years, FD -- it's meant a lot.

Relationships with adult children still continue. I think you are seeing this with SD 18- and it's a positive one. What will change is that you will have less to do with the kids BPD mother. One situation to explore - in therapy- is how to handle the chance or occasion encounters with her and SD. Contact with them will happen on occasion- if there are weddings, graduations, and how to manage these situations, so you don't feel like you froze and didn't know what to do.

I have my therapy appointment today, so I think I'll bring that up.

The rescuing the friend situation- at times, my BPD mother seems to have made friends with women my age and acted in the role of "motherly person" to them. It does feel odd.

Looking at this through the BPD lense- since BPD affects the closest relationships the most- they tend to "hold it together" better with people they don't know as well. It would then make sense that she's able to act "motherly" with people she doesn't have the same connection or history with- or the responsibilities. She doesn't have the responsibilities of motherhood with these people- she can interact in a way that somehow meets her needs with them.

Whatever the kids mother is doing with this friend, it's meeting her needs somehow. Maybe it's her own way of dealing with the possible empty nest. Maybe it's a way of keeping SD 16 attached to her since it's her best friend. Also, it may not happen. BPD mother may change her mind. The friend may decide on other plans at 18.

I hadn't thought of those angles; those make sense, too. If change is difficult for a pwBPD, and kids leaving home is a change, then "empty nesting" would be extremely challenging. SD18 plans to move out of the country in a year or so (of course, things can change), so that could be hard for Mom.

I hope you and your H can find more time to be a couple.

Thank you -- I think we need to.

[kells76]

Hope this update is as exciting as it gets for a long, long time 

Spoke too soon.

A family member of mine gave SD18 a hand-me-down computer for Christmas. At first, SD18 had it at Mom's house, and got it mostly set up. Then it started having some issues, so she brought it to our place so we could help troubleshoot. SD18 & H worked on it for a bit but it didn't sound like it got resolved. I had some free time yesterday so I thought I'd try to diagnose it, too. I was texting back and forth with this family member for help with the problem. I'd heard that only one app was the issue so I tried opening every other app to see if those worked.

Apparently SD16 & SD18 had somehow linked the computer to Mom's account so they could stream music/watch movies/etc. What that did was link everything from the cloud.

The computer now has >5 years of all of Mom's phone's photos, contacts, appointments, reminders, some messages, and videos. It shows real time locations of all the phones associated with Mom's account. It covers the years when the DV/neglect at Mom's started and got bad. Some of the photos are inappropriate. I didn't try to look at everything but I did scroll some (to see how far back stuff went) and they popped up.

I'm not as torqued out by this as I would've been in the past... but it's not nothing.

It's years of "evidence" showing what they were doing, who they were with, and what was (in a curated way) going on as things deteriorated at Mom's.

I feel strangely neutral about this.

Part of me is proud that I have chosen to be the kind of person who respects others' privacy. I'm not immediately driven to pore over this data dump and "get the evidence". Past me might have felt obligated to comb through it ASAP. Now I feel like I have time to make a wise decision. I also know that if this went the other way, I would not want Mom looking at my private info.

Another part of me is wondering -- I've made a change in how I approach information about Mom/Stepdad in the last ~8 months. I used to be so committed to not being gossipy, not oversharing, "being the bigger person", respecting privacy, etc, that many people in our community didn't know how challenging life was, and I didn't ask others if they had concerns about the kids. During/after the CPS call, though, I decided that shining light on their behavior was important, and also for the kids' safety, I was OK with telling others what had happened and asking them to tell me if they noticed anything off.

So I'm not as hard-line committed to "respect their privacy, don't snoop, it's not your business" because they made choices about neglect and safety that made it my business.

Not really sure how I plan to move forward with this. Leaning towards not poking around in it, especially given that the kids are 16 & 18 now. If they were younger, less able to take care of themselves, more closed off with H and me, not as able to articulate what was going on there, then yeah, I might have more of an obligation, maybe, to "snoop"? At least I'm not feeling an anxiety-driven urge to "do something". Feeling weirdly calm.

Definitely getting talked about in therapy today, sigh.

[ABetterWay]

I have appreciated your update posts, and when I first found the site went back into older ones to see how other people handle situations from the step mom side.  In fact, one time you posted about asking hotlines and/or mandated reporters about hypothetical situations (instead of saying that it is what is happening) to find out if something is a big enough deal OR what the next steps would be, and that really stuck with us.  Because unfortunately we know there's a line between not good for the kids and what is actually an actionable offense.  And then - it's weighing the cost of reporting, and is it going to lead to more issues of drama/retaliation.  Anyways - it's something I've put in my toolkit when needed as well now.

Later, after the friend went home, I was saying something like "wow, it's so different to be eating together without Friend", and SD16 said "well, once Friend turns 18, she's going to move into Mom's house" -- and then SD18 gave an odd look to SD16.

We had a similar-ish situation where BM was acting as a better parent towards her on and off again boyfriend's kid.  She was also more willing to participate in bonding activities like taking the kid to get their nails done together without our older SD.  Bf's kid is 5 years older than middle SD.  Who is our "big feelings" kid (and the oldest girl), and can be quite perceptive and hold it in until she can't.  SO was picking up on middle SDs discomfort, and we had to navigate the whole "mom cares about you, but sometimes acts to impress one person without thinking about how it hurts someone else's feelings" situation.  In this case, BM parenting another, less attached child seemed easier AND she could present herself to friends / the outside world of how giving and self-sacrificing she was.  The disconnect between what she thought was acceptable for her to do in taking on a "step mom" role vs what she felt was appropriate for me to do did make me giggle and the absurdness.  Especially when looking at a consistent live-in relationship vs one that wasn't.  Because giggling was all I could do instead of getting worked up over it.

Part of me is proud that I have chosen to be the kind of person who respects others' privacy. I'm not immediately driven to pore over this data dump and "get the evidence". Past me might have felt obligated to comb through it ASAP. Now I feel like I have time to make a wise decision. I also know that if this went the other way, I would not want Mom looking at my private info.

This is INCREDIBLE and shows some real growth.  I can't say that my anxious levels are at a point where I could resist going through it all.  Which ultimately would be bad news for me in that it would feed into the drama, get me more worked up about what I didn't/couldn't prevent, and would likely just send me in a full out spiral increasing SO's (and overall the family's) stress levels.  Don't you just love when these things pop up right before therapy? 

[kells76]

I can't say that my anxious levels are at a point where I could resist going through it all.  Which ultimately would be bad news for me in that it would feed into the drama, get me more worked up about what I didn't/couldn't prevent, and would likely just send me in a full out spiral increasing SO's (and overall the family's) stress levels.

Talked through it with my T yesterday, and she suggested I ask H if he was aware of the synching stuff going on. I asked him, and he knew that the kids had used Mom's ID in order to stream movies/music, but he didn't know that that meant that we saw almost everything from her phone. He was pretty hardnosed about it and was like "for your own sanity, you probably shouldn't look at it" -- similar to your thoughts above.

My T could see how it could be a safety issue, especially if there are/were more inappropriate photos that the kids could see (or that, God forbid, the kids were in "artistically"). The ones I saw were, to me, right on the edge, but could conceivably be called "artistic". Male torso but no head, so IDK who it was.

I told her that honestly I didn't want to look at it all, it was more that I was angry at the intrusion into our house and annoyed that for the second time, I had to wonder who was in a nude photo that Mom posted somewhere. (Had to do that back around ~2017 or so at an art show she did... long story).

What feels bigger to me is this sense that -- OK, SD18 got a job at my work, and that feels... planful? meaningful? not random?

And now, soon after that, basically all of Mom's info gets dropped in my lap from above.

I'm not big on woowoo stuff but I find myself wondering why? Like, is there some meaning to this? Am I supposed to know what to do with it? Is it a "test" or task of some kind?

Right now I've settled on not digging. A big part of it is that SD18 especially has come to trust me and see me as a reliable, honest person. I suspect that it would feel like a betrayal to her, in a way, if I were to dig through her mom's phone. It's more important to me that she can trust me than that I find something in there.

I still worry, like, what if there's incriminating stuff in the pictures or videos (even if it's "just" that Mom left adult content where minors could see it), and I need to report it. IDK. Not really an easy answer.

I think I'm trying to trust that if there's some "reason" I'm supposed to do something with this info, it'll become more clear to me later, even though it isn't clear now.

Don't you just love when these things pop up right before therapy?  

It's uncanny... but I'm grateful I knew I had somewhere to take it. My T is acquainted with both Mom and Stepdad, so that helps with explaining everything, too.

[EyesUp]

Keep up the good work, Kells.

It's nice to read a positive story!

Rock on.

[ForeverDad]

I didn't have to deal with your precise situation but one factoid is you can't be expected to unsee what you already know.

Years ago when first separated the police filed a Threat of DV charge against my then-spouse.  The law stated making threats was illegal.  Case dragged on for a few months with a few continuances but eventually a trial was held.  To my surprise the judge ruled she was Not Guilty and dismissed the case.  The basis was that "case law" in a nearby county ruled a drunk was not guilty of a similar charge since he was drunk and didn't own a gun anyway.  Though she wasn't drunk, the case was terminated since she didn't have a weapon in her hands.  (I suspect that her being a woman and no priors might have been factors as well.)

My ex was arrested, that triggered our separation and eventual divorce.  It was dismissed eventually but a couple years later she must have had the case expunged, one day it was searchable on the court's web site, then it wasn't.

I couldn't unsee it, possibly I still have screen shots of the expungement order in the case history, somewhere.

[Notwendy]

Aside from you not choosing to look at it at the moment, I don't think the kids should see it. What can be done to get it off the computer so they don't? Assuming the kids linked for the music- they also got this?

[kells76]

It's nice to read a positive story!

You're right that there's a lot of good going on, all things considered. The fact that I think SD18 trusts me and sees me as reliable... hope that's good for her.

I didn't have to deal with your precise situation but one factoid is you can't be expected to unsee what you already know.

That's part of what makes it hard -- that there's not a 0% chance that if I were to go looking through that info, I would find something reportable. There's history there making it so I can't just say "not my business, nothing to see", because there's a real chance there is something "there".

The fact that the kids are the ages they are (almost 19 & almost 17) does make it easier not to dig -- they're not as defenseless/without personal resources. They may still need H and I but in a different way than if they were elementary school age.

Aside from you not choosing to look at it at the moment, I don't think the kids should see it. What can be done to get it off the computer so they don't? Assuming the kids linked for the music- they also got this?

H and I chatted about the situation a bit more the other day, and we're considering telling SD18 -- "hey, not sure if you knew, but a lot of Mom's stuff synched over with the username/password. We didn't look through it but weren't sure if you knew it showed up?"

It's unfortunately possible that that kind of content is like "wallpaper" to the kids -- so typical and familiar that they would not have my response to it. "Oh, that's just Mom's art", or "yeah, all our phones synch, it's super weird but whatever".

IDK... but H and I agree we don't really want to do more with the computer. He did a software update for it and plans to hand it back to SD18 with a suggestion that she download a free browser from the app store. Seems important that we aren't involved with it in our house any more.

...

I'm still in the place, though, of feeling like I've been hit with a ton of non-random, non-coincidental occurrences over a really short time frame, because on Friday, I brought SD18 with me to a coworker's going away party at work -- to help her meet some more people and get comfortable here. I knew a very personable coworker would be there and thought she'd be a good person for SD18 to meet, so we went over to say Hi, and the coworker was like, "you look soooo familiar, do I know you from somewhere?"

It turns out that the coworker lives above Stepdad's girlfriend and is acquainted with them (and, of course, thinks that Girlfriend is totally great and they're friends).

I don't know what the heck I'm supposed to be doing with this info. It seems beyond coincidental. I feel totally in the dark about if there's something I should be doing or knowing about this. It's like there's a ton of neon arrows flashing but all in different directions. This stuff has all happened in under 2 weeks.

[Notwendy]

As you mentioned- this can be kind of like wallpaper- the background of a child's experience because it is the norm in the home. On one hand, as teens, we knew some experiences at home weren't "normal" but it's our normal and so it doesn't surprise us.

At this point, the kids are almost grown, (they are far from being mature- but legally adult) and the exposures to whatever happened in BPD mother's house is what it is. They still need stable adults who care about them.  What you are doing for SD 18 is wonderful- helping her to become a capable and independent adult. You will likely do the same- maybe in a different context as she's a different child- for SD 16.

The Universe works as it does and we don't understand the whole of it. If you are presented with information without a clear reason, that is just a part of it. Keep being the stable adult and role model for the kids.

[PeteWitsend]

...
We were out with SD16 and the friend recently, and ran into Stepdad. It's not like we live in a small town, so it was difficult to feel like I was "safe" and then suddenly there he was. The place we were at was big enough that H and I just turned around and did something else. I think SD16 chatted with him for a bit but we didn't have the "can my friend and I just go with Stepdad to Mom's" move that maybe would've happened in the past.

I felt like I had no skills, though. As soon as I realized it was him, it was like all my tools were gone and I was in tunnel vision survival mode. It was extremely stressful, including physically. I could not be around him or look at him, I just wanted to be gone and for it to be over. So that's still going on.

It is really hard to keep your wits about you in situations like this, especially if you're more introverted or introspective, or just more conflict-averse than some people.  I also struggle with it. 

The best advice I've received is to remember to take a deep breath and think about a "prompt" or something you can use to slow things down and get your wits back.  I think maybe practicing with a couple phrases like "Oh, hello there, it's so great to see you." (whether true or not) gives you a way to redirect the conversation.  Maybe even practice with someone who's open-minded and you trust, saying a couple lines to get used to it.  I found that helped me prepare for job interviews well, which are also stressful situations. 

I was at a professional conference last year and one of the topics was dealing with confrontational people.  The speaker mentioned Bill Eddy's "BIFF" communication method.  I asked him after how he remembered to stay calm when presented with an unexpected call & sudden high pressure situation like that.  He said he actually printed out the BIFF rules and some other stuff and keeps it near his phone at work.

That's obviously a less stressful situation in some ways (i.e. it's not in person and face-to-face), but I'm thinking to analogize that to an in-person meeting, you'd practice saying some go-to lines, and taking a deep breath, or thinking about breathing (get some oxygen into that brain).

Later, after the friend went home, I was saying something like "wow, it's so different to be eating together without Friend", and SD16 said "well, once Friend turns 18, she's going to move into Mom's house" -- and then SD18 gave an odd look to SD16.

For context, Friend lives with her dad (mom not in the picture for a few years) and the way the kids describe the dad is "abusive" though it's hard to say how accurate that is. The dad sounds more on the authoritarian side of the parenting spectrum (controlling, not direct communication) but I'm not sure I've heard anything more than that.

Part of me is irked that Mom, who literally had a CPS call about her house, is now talking about "rescuing" another teen from an "abusive" home... as if her own home and behavior (and Stepdad's) wasn't abusive and neglectful.

But I'm not going in mental circles on that. There's nothing I can control about that situation, there are actually some logistical hurdles that might make it not happen, Mom tends to say all kinds of wonderful/amazing things and not follow through, and I've learned to "believe it when I see it".

...

yeah, that's kind of a hallmark BPD behavior... a lot of plans and promises that never come to fruition once actual work or effort is required.  I wouldn't worry about it until it happens.

I could write a short story just listing out every idea BPDxw had, or wanted to do that never moved forward... even if I was required to help out or do something and did my part.  They are incredibly lazy and work averse.  And a lot of the time you wonder if they really wanted to actually do the thing they claimed, or are just using it to "test" everyone around them. 

I remember BPDxw wanting to make a "family tree" for our daughter.  Of course, I needed to buy the art supplies for it.  Paints, and markers and a big poster board.  Then I got a lot of grief for not painting the tree.  Then she picked HUGE fights with my family members when they didn't send pictures as soon as she demanded.  After everyone else did their part, the painted poster board sat there unused for the next year... she never added the pictures and captions to the tree as she planned to do.  It was still there a year and a half later when I moved out and filed for divorce.  I assume it's in a landfill somewhere now.  And I'm sure if you asked her about it, it was everyone else's fault she didn't finish.

So I think you're right to just listen and smile and nod, knowing there's a 0.0001% chance it happens.  And even if it does, you'll likely be dealing with other problems when it falls apart in a week or two...