Reclaiming the City

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey guys,

just posting a little update on maybe the last part of my healing journey after the BPD breakup that I had.

The girl I was with lived in a very specific part of city, which is full of trendy bars and nice places to go.

The end game of our situation was that - after breaking up with me - she kept contacting me, and I kept replying.

She was due to fly over to see me (I didn't invite her - she said she was coming, and I quietly hoped that we might've turned a corner); and then she disappeared.

I saw her holding hands with a new guy while out in her city (where I study), and told her I'd have to step back from contact now via voice note.

I was deliberately gentle in my tone of voice, and tried hard to tread a line between expressing my hurt, but also not being *too* blamey or accusatory.

The next day, her bf called; accused me of stalking, harassment and risking her life(??). He threatened physical violence if he saw me.

There are two sides to every story of course, but I'm confident that those accusations of his are entirely, demonstrably false.

------

While I've been studying in her city, I've stayed well within the city centre, and never ventured out to the area with nice bars etc.

But it's been about eight months now, and I woke up the other day feeling annoyed that I was running my life around a girl with obvious mental health difficulties; and a strange-sounding guy who was talked into making a threatening phone call a month or two into a new dating relationship.

I've reported that incident to the police, and a trusted member of this girl's community; friends and family know that it happened, and my therapist knows it happened.

I believe that I've done everything appropriately, above board and and I think I'm wholly in the clear.

I have written proof that I treated her well (in the form of texts and letters).

And so - with all of this in mind - I'm going to start going back to her area again.

I have no interest in seeing her, and I have no interest in seeing him; but going for a coffee in a trendy coffee place, in a nice part of a city isn't a criminal offence.

I'm not doing anything wrong, and I don't want to be intimidated out of a whole area of a city by a very troubled girl with a difficult life story.

For me, this is also a late part of my healing journey - taking back the entire city, not seeing areas as a 'no go'; and not living in fear of bumping into someone who didn't treat me well.

I won't provoke anyone or do anything to get attention - I specifically do not want anything like that - I just want to know that I'm free and able to walk around, as a law-abiding citizen and a good person; without feeling scared or bullied.

So, hey - I'm just declaring that plan here.

If anyone thinks it's literally a terrible idea and they're speaking from direct experience, I'll bear it in mind and maybe change my thoughts.

Otherwise, it's what I'll do

[SnailShell]

Hey guys,

just posting a little update on maybe the last part of my healing journey after the BPD breakup that I had.

The girl I was with lived in a very specific part of city, which is full of trendy bars and nice places to go.

The end game of our situation was that - after breaking up with me - she kept contacting me, and I kept replying.

She was due to fly over to see me (I didn't invite her - she said she was coming, and I quietly hoped that we might've turned a corner); and then she disappeared.

I saw her holding hands with a new guy while out in her city (where I study), and told her I'd have to step back from contact now via voice note.

I was deliberately gentle in my tone of voice, and tried hard to tread a line between expressing my hurt, but also not being *too* blamey or accusatory.

The next day, her bf called; accused me of stalking, harassment and risking her life(??). He threatened physical violence if he saw me.

There are two sides to every story of course, but I'm confident that those accusations of his are entirely, demonstrably false.

------

While I've been studying in her city, I've stayed well within the city centre, and never ventured out to the area with nice bars etc.

But it's been about eight months now, and I woke up the other day feeling annoyed that I was running my life around a girl with obvious mental health difficulties; and a strange-sounding guy who was talked into making a threatening phone call a month or two into a new dating relationship.

I've reported that incident to the police, and a trusted member of this girl's community; friends and family know that it happened, and my therapist knows it happened.

I believe that I've done everything appropriately, above board and and I think I'm wholly in the clear.

I have written proof that I treated her well (in the form of texts and letters).

And so - with all of this in mind - I'm going to start going back to her area again.

I have no interest in seeing her, and I have no interest in seeing him; but going for a coffee in a trendy coffee place, in a nice part of a city isn't a criminal offence.

I'm not doing anything wrong, and I don't want to be intimidated out of a whole area of a city by a very troubled girl with a difficult life story.

For me, this is also a late part of my healing journey - taking back the entire city, not seeing areas as a 'no go'; and not living in fear of bumping into someone who didn't treat me well.

I won't provoke anyone or do anything to get attention - I specifically do not want anything like that - I just want to know that I'm free and able to walk around, as a law-abiding citizen and a good person; without feeling scared or bullied.

So, hey - I'm just declaring that plan here.

If anyone thinks it's literally a terrible idea and they're speaking from direct experience, I'll bear it in mind and maybe change my thoughts.

Otherwise, it's what I'll do

[PeteWitsend]

...
I'm not doing anything wrong, and I don't want to be intimidated out of a whole area of a city by a very troubled girl with a difficult life story.

For me, this is also a late part of my healing journey - taking back the entire city, not seeing areas as a 'no go'; and not living in fear of bumping into someone who didn't treat me well.

I won't provoke anyone or do anything to get attention - I specifically do not want anything like that - I just want to know that I'm free and able to walk around, as a law-abiding citizen and a good person; without feeling scared or bullied.

So, hey - I'm just declaring that plan here.

If anyone thinks it's literally a terrible idea and they're speaking from direct experience, I'll bear it in mind and maybe change my thoughts.

Otherwise, it's what I'll do

I think there are a lot of issues at play here, but the short answer is: there's no problem with doing what you're doing.  You shouldn't live your life in fear like that, and you have every right to go out in public and live your life.

That being said, looking at this from a practical concern, I think you need to weigh the actual risk here, i.e. what are the chances this guy seriously injures you.

I'd say they're probably pretty low.  I'm curious what others think.

It sounds like you're overthinking this in general; maybe take some self-defense classes and get a little more confidence in that regard.  Don't let people push you around like this. 

[SnailShell]

I think there are a lot of issues at play here, but the short answer is: there's no problem with doing what you're doing.  You shouldn't live your life in fear like that, and you have every right to go out in public and live your life.

That being said, looking at this from a practical concern, I think you need to weigh the actual risk here, i.e. what are the chances this guy seriously injures you.

I'd say they're probably pretty low.  I'm curious what others think.

It sounds like you're overthinking this in general; maybe take some self-defense classes and get a little more confidence in that regard.  Don't let people push you around like this. 

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah - well, my rationale for staying out of her area originally was..

Firstly, I didn't even know how fair it was to her if I was around - she's had some horrible experiences with men (which I do believe - even if some of the later experiences might've been seen through her 'trauma lens').

Secondly, I just didn't want to see her anyway.

Then - on the day I told her I was going to step back from contact with her, she said (twice):

'If you see me around the city, feel free to say hi!'

It was two days later that I got the 'stalking and harassment' accusations.

Nothing about any of it made sense, and I was nervous about being in her area in case it was somehow twisted into 'proof' that I was doing those things.

But it means that every time I've been over there for study, I've done nothing but hang around in the city centre - which is getting kinda boring now.

And I just feel like the time is here now to stop making her 'triggered-ness' a priority in where I choose to go.

She does live annoyingly close to those trendy coffee places (a short walk really), but... meh... I mean... I've been going to that city for a long time before I met her - and she doesn't own the place.

Her bf (if they're even together) COULD be a concern...

But when he called me, he spoke with a slow drawl, and sounded a bit... well... not the sharpest, anyway.

I just have a feeling that in public, in daylight, with me walking confidently and not doing anything wrong - I just sorta doubt that the worst case scenario is really likely.

You're right - self-defence classes might not hurt, one day!

I do feel a little nervous going back there, but also a bit excited; and I feel like I need to re-capture some positive aggression about life in general at the moment, and start making things happen for myself.

And part of that is not giving a (sorry if this sounds insensitive) sorta crazy person too much power over my movements.

It really is time to leave all of that in the past and act as if it's right behind me now - because that's exactly where it needs to be. 

[Under The Bridge]

Good for you! You were on this planet long before you met your g/f so no reason to let her affect anything you do.

Regarding her new b/f, see how long it takes for him to realise she's using him and that you were never the problem - she is. Be glad you're off the treadmill, get out there and meet people who will give back what you give them.

[PeteWitsend]

...

Firstly, I didn't even know how fair it was to her if I was around - she's had some horrible experiences with men (which I do believe - even if some of the later experiences might've been seen through her 'trauma lens').

...

I think it's a good sign of growth when you can recognize when to accommodate someone and when not to. 

Regardless of how traumatic someone's past may have been, that doesn't give them license to restrict or control others around them.  They need to confront their past, accept it, and move on, most likely with therapy to assist. 

Sure, maybe you need to be sensitive about certain things, but not doing otherwise healthy/normal activities because your partner had problems with someone else 5/10/20 years ago is just wrong.  Cut and run! 

It's also helpful to understand that you don't have to coddle everyone in your life or worry about their feelings, especially when they've repeatedly shown no concern for yours.  It's not being cold, cruel or rude. 

I think we've discussed this in one of your other threads, namely whether her traumatic experiences were legit or not.  Accepting them as true is foolish.  Questioning them is progress, but the end goal is to realize that whether they are true or not, it does not matter; you can do things you like to do, see friends, talk to your family, etc., and her problems - and they are entirely HER problems - should not affect that or govern your life.  If she - or anyone like her in the future - can't work through something like that with you, you should not be in a relationship with them because THEY are not ready for a relationship themselves.

[SnailShell]

Good for you! You were on this planet long before you met your g/f so no reason to let her affect anything you do.

Regarding her new b/f, see how long it takes for him to realise she's using him and that you were never the problem - she is. Be glad you're off the treadmill, get out there and meet people who will give back what you give them.

Thank you

[SnailShell]

Urgh - I wrote out a long reply and it didn’t post!

I’ll try again later

[SnailShell]

Good for you! You were on this planet long before you met your g/f so no reason to let her affect anything you do.

Regarding her new b/f, see how long it takes for him to realise she's using him and that you were never the problem - she is. Be glad you're off the treadmill, get out there and meet people who will give back what you give them.

Yeah, thank you I really appreciate that!

It’s been hard to feel so unsafe (physically and emotionally), but today went really well.
I hung out in her area more or less all day, arranged to grab a beer with someone at a pub near her’s, and I actually had a great time.

I feel like the ‘spell’ of that place has largely been broken!

[SnailShell]

I think it's a good sign of growth when you can recognize when to accommodate someone and when not to. 

Regardless of how traumatic someone's past may have been, that doesn't give them license to restrict or control others around them.  They need to confront their past, accept it, and move on, most likely with therapy to assist. 

Sure, maybe you need to be sensitive about certain things, but not doing otherwise healthy/normal activities because your partner had problems with someone else 5/10/20 years ago is just wrong.  Cut and run! 

It's also helpful to understand that you don't have to coddle everyone in your life or worry about their feelings, especially when they've repeatedly shown no concern for yours.  It's not being cold, cruel or rude. 

I think we've discussed this in one of your other threads, namely whether her traumatic experiences were legit or not.  Accepting them as true is foolish.  Questioning them is progress, but the end goal is to realize that whether they are true or not, it does not matter; you can do things you like to do, see friends, talk to your family, etc., and her problems - and they are entirely HER problems - should not affect that or govern your life.  If she - or anyone like her in the future - can't work through something like that with you, you should not be in a relationship with them because THEY are not ready for a relationship themselves.

Yeah thank you - I feel like I’m getting better at this.

At the time, I saw it as

‘She’s trying to recover from severe trauma, she’s told me about it, I want to help her by steering clear, and not showing up in her area etc.’

Plus, I thought there could be some kind of violence from that guy, or that she might falsely accuse me again if she ever saw me there.

I don’t think things were anywhere near as mutual then as I imagined - I don’t think she was confiding in me as a mutual friend when she told me about her trauma, I think it was something other than that…

And when everything played out as it did, I stayed away in a kind of self-preservation.

So I can understand my perception at the time, but even entering that area today felt like I was committing some kind of trespass.

And that’s wrong.

I realised that I’ve made her and that guy bigger than me - because I’ve given them a say over my life.

When I went into her area today, she started to feel smaller than me - and so did he.

I started to realise that I can actually go where I like, and that I won’t be bullied out of that freedom.

It really did feel good, and it felt like a massive shift in my healing.

[PeteWitsend]

...
So I can understand my perception at the time, but even entering that area today felt like I was committing some kind of trespass.

And that’s wrong.

I realised that I’ve made her and that guy bigger than me - because I’ve given them a say over my life.

When I went into her area today, she started to feel smaller than me - and so did he.

I started to realise that I can actually go where I like, and that I won’t be bullied out of that freedom.

It really did feel good, and it felt like a massive shift in my healing.

good for you. it's great you're making progress and moving beyond some of the co-dependent/controlling behaviors and standing up for yourself. 

I like to think through positives and negatives of things too, not because I'm a pessimistic person, but I realize it helps prepare me for things, and keep a proper perspective.  That way, when something does go wrong, I think "Well, I knew that was a possibility / there was a chance it could go wrong, and I considered that" and not "I was wrong for trying"

So like if you do run into them, and she does some BPD stuff (e.g. says hi and acts friendly, and then later sends you a message claiming you're stalking her, or vice versa), or he threatens you in person or something... you're thought isn't "I should've stayed out of the area" but "That was wrong what they did, and I'm not going to let it affect me."

Remember that things happen outside our control, and it doesn't change who we are.  You can make the right decision and have bad luck ruin it; doesn't change that it was the right decision.  And you can make the wrong decision but luck into a good outcome.  Doesn't mean you should do the wrong thing again!

[SnailShell]

good for you. it's great you're making progress and moving beyond some of the co-dependent/controlling behaviors and standing up for yourself. 

I like to think through positives and negatives of things too, not because I'm a pessimistic person, but I realize it helps prepare me for things, and keep a proper perspective.  That way, when something does go wrong, I think "Well, I knew that was a possibility / there was a chance it could go wrong, and I considered that" and not "I was wrong for trying"

So like if you do run into them, and she does some BPD stuff (e.g. says hi and acts friendly, and then later sends you a message claiming you're stalking her, or vice versa), or he threatens you in person or something... you're thought isn't "I should've stayed out of the area" but "That was wrong what they did, and I'm not going to let it affect me."

Remember that things happen outside our control, and it doesn't change who we are.  You can make the right decision and have bad luck ruin it; doesn't change that it was the right decision.  And you can make the wrong decision but luck into a good outcome.  Doesn't mean you should do the wrong thing again!

Yeah - this is helpful!

And I reflect that it's worth risking bumping into a crazy person and maybe even the (unlikely) worst case scenario happening, than limiting myself and losing my freedom.

In that second situation, they're still doing things to me every time I don't feel that I can go.

You're right as well, that a good or bad action/decision can end up going well or badly - and that doesn't always reflect on the action/decision.

Something I struggle with a bit, is when someone very confidently declares:

"You are 'x'!"

Either for good or bad, I struggle to see myself in a fixed way, and I can take a lot of my self-perception from the loudest voices around me.

I really need to work on that.

Part of the cognitive dissonance in my situation seemed to come from a place of:

"I KNOW I'm right here... I'm SURE I am..."

When she was trying to manipulate me or something.

And often I could stand firm (it's one reason that she broke up with me) - but I still had that voice saying:

"Are you sure you're right?"

And sometimes I'd find myself emotionally believing her, even if I didn't buy into her perception on an intellectual level.

When I'm in that place, the other person can seem very big to me - and I can feel small.

I was - at one time - very tempted to give up all of my power to her; and to simply 'go with' whatever she wanted - just so that I could keep her.

Luckily my sense of 'rightness' wouldn't let me do that - I knew it wasn't the right move.

But anyway, my point is:

I could do with strengthening my own self-perception so that when someone hysterically accuses me of something; I don't feel self-doubt.

Rather I can zoom out, view it intellectually, be a bit more detached, and decide to discard that voice.

I know I'm human - so it'll never be pleasant to be falsely accused; but that doesn't mean that I should live in fear of it.