Suicide threats - responses?

[SoVeryConfused]

Hi,
I'm sorry for another post. My 24 DD who lives in another town sent cryptic texts. "Good bye. I'm sorry. Please understand."

She tells me regularly on and off she just wants to die, but when I did tell the police she denied it.

I did call her now - she did answer and said she's leaving work and is not home - and yes, she meant it. And that there's nothing I can do. She's not home to call 911 on her - and when I asked her directly if she was talking suicide she said she is saying no more.

This could be a bluff to get us back in contact with her after holding some limits on calls last night. Or it could be real. How do you handle when you don't know where they are?

And do you typically call for help each and every time they say this, even knowing it may affect them in their job? She lives in a massive city that I'm not sure will even show up, but that may be beside the point.

Thanks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[kells76]

Hi SoVeryConfused;

Please do feel free to post as much as you feel -- we understand how gut-wrenching these situations are for you. I'm so sorry you're going through this with D24.

Can you tell me a bit more about this:

She tells me regularly on and off she just wants to die, but when I did tell the police she denied it.

Does that mean that she threatened suicide to you, then you called the police, then the police got in touch with her, and she answered them?

If so, then in a sense, that is what you could do again when you know her location. She won't like it... but it will mean that a real person is in touch with her, and that does verify that she is alive and talking.

In this case, where you don't know where she is, have you considered calling a suicide hotline yourself, or a local crisis line? You could explain that it's your D24 who has made threats, and you care about her and aren't sure how to confirm that she is OK because you don't know where she is. Either of those resources could have experience with similar situations, and could walk you through some options.

I believe the USA national suicide hotline # is 988, and you should be able to call or text it. The website is: 988lifeline.org

Let us know how things go... we'll be here.

[SoVeryConfused]

She says more general things like she doesn't want to be here anymore and she's done. Usually when upset with us.

We had a crisis a week or so ago, and police came and I told them everything she says and what's going on. She denied having a plan or being suicidal and so they did release her.

She works in a job that a police interaction could jeopardize it. And she has bluffed often. I did call the NAMI crisis line in her city and left a message. I will also try #988. Thank you.

I tend to this this is a bluff because her dad hasn't been talking to her due to her disrespect to him and I've been trying to set limits to the abuse I'll accept, too, so have turned off my phone at night. I did talk to her this am, but every call is terrible. From start to finish.  I do think she's despondent. 

[kells76]

It sounds like one of those tricky situations where unfortunately, you've developed a sense for if she "means it" or not. I don't have a ton of experience with a loved one making suicidal statements, but I think I've heard from other parents that yes, at some point, you can get a feel for if it's "real" or if it's maladaptive coping with stress.

That's smart to get in touch with NAMI in her city. Let us know what they say when they call back, and do also let us know if 988 is helpful or not.

Another good resource is the NEABPD Family Connections program specifically for suicidality in a child, called Managing Suicidality & Trauma Recovery. It's a free, 8 week (or one weekend) class. The 8 week sessions only start at set times during the year, but the weekend courses can happen all year round. They also have some links at the bottom of that page that could be worth a look.

I tend to this this is a bluff because her dad hasn't been talking to her due to her disrespect to him and I've been trying to set limits to the abuse I'll accept, too, so have turned off my phone at night. I did talk to her this am, but every call is terrible. From start to finish. I do think she's despondent.

I think you're right.

How does she respond when you use that as your validation target -- not arguing "don't kill yourself" but agreeing "you must be despondent to not want to be here any more"? You may have already tried that approach, so apologies if it's redundant.

[SoVeryConfused]

I told her we love and just because we have difficult conversations and take a breather, that never changes.

She does not respond well to validation most of the time.
Thank you for the class recommendation. I am on the waitlist for Family Connections.  But I didn't know about the other class. I will look it up now. Thank you.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I’m so sorry you have to deal with suicide threats and gestures. It’s scary and hard to know what to do, especially when you aren’t sure if the threats are credible or not. Sometimes people need to vent, or they may seek attention when they talk like that. And other times, they really are thinking about killing themselves.

My adult BPD stepdaughter used to talk like that all the time—how she couldn’t take it anymore, how she wouldn’t be around much longer, how her life was over, how she had nothing to live for. Sadly, she attempted suicide multiple times, each attempt more serious than the last. I felt like I was on suicide watch for five years. Every time the phone rang in the evening or late at night, I’d panic. There were times we felt she was teetering on the edge, and she’d make an attempt within a day or two or three.

Maybe what you could try is to ask why she feels that way, but I bet she’ll recite the usual litany of grievances, or break down and demand to be left alone. Maybe you could be direct and ask, are you thinking of killing yourself right now?  And if she is, you could ask, how do you plan to do it? By being direct, I think that you’re being validating, and that she feels heard. If she has the intent and the means (eg pills), you could take the pills away and call 911.  I bet she’ll be furious about that, but maybe that’s the way she can get the help she really needs.

One time my husband found his daughter throwing up a bunch of pills. She didn’t want to go to the hospital (again). Distraught, my husband told me what happened, and he asked me to pretend that she hadn’t tried to commit suicide, because she didn’t want to go to the hospital. I said, honey, you are not thinking clearly because you are upset. She is not well, and she needs to get help. She’s not thinking clearly either, because she’s very sick. A suicide attempt is a desperate cry fir help. You need to take her directly to the hospital. And that’s what he did. Fortunately, she got the medical and psychological help she really needed.  She had to hit bottom in order to accept some professional help.

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you for taking the time to share your stories and thoughts.

I did call the mobile crisis line and sadly, they will only go out in her city when the afflicted person calls for help, not family members. 988 wasn't helpful at all, other than asking me if I was suicidal. And I didn't end up calling the police because she lives in a massive city where these cops are super busy and often you can't get a crisis check. I know she would just have said,  I'm fine, my mom is nuts and no, I won't go for help.

I think today's threats were a kid that is living on her own, deteriorating mentally because she's not seeking MH help and feels stuck without friends or the energy to overcome depression to make new friends. AND the boundaries her dad and I have set around our interactions and phone calls, which led to me turning off my phone and her dad not answering. This feels like a frantic and response to that.

At the same time, she's getting worse and worse daily. It sounds like she's running out of steam, getting darker and darker, and in her view, we are not helping even though she's asked.

My husband happens to be in our home town for work the next 5 days, so I'm going to take a much needed breath, knowing he's close by. My hope is he will bridge things enough to get eyes on her. I'll talk with my new therapist on Friday, pray a lot and hopefully gain some wisdom on what to do next.

On another note, I appreciate the Family Connections class recommendation.

I also found another class at Tara4BPD? It's a paid class and not inexpensive - has anyone done it? I'm on the waitlist for Family Connections, but I feel like I have been forever.

This community is wonderful. I only hope at some point, I can be as helpful as you have been to me. 
 

[kells76]

I'm sorry to hear that 988 wasn't helpful. It's too bad that they don't offer that kind of "peripheral" suicidality support, where it's not for you, but your loved one.

And it sounds like you got some info about local intervention that will help you in your future decision making. Our local crisis team also is "voluntary" -- the person must "want" help -- and that frustrates me to no end. If I see someone rolling around in a ditch by the train tracks, but they "say" they are fine, I'm supposed to just leave? Very, very difficult situations. Sounds like you now know that 988, the police, and the crisis line are not suitable resources for your situation: they will not help or intervene in the ways that you would like.

Yes, the waitlist for FC can be long. I think I waited 7 months for my class. Hang in there -- you will get in, it just takes time.

The founder of TARA4BPD, Valerie Porr, wrote Overcoming BPD: A Family Guide for Healing and Change which is well regarded. I have not read the book or taken the class, so feel free to share your feedback here after participating -- would love to hear more about if you think it's effective.

Glad to hear your H will be around, and you can take some "time off" from your vigilance. What relaxing thing could you do for yourself, even for just an hour or so, during that time?

I hope that between here, your therapist, the TARA class, and FC, you have some helpful short term and long term supports. These are incredibly difficult family dynamics  

[CC43]

"I think today's threats were a kid that is living on her own, deteriorating mentally because she's not seeking MH help and feels stuck without friends or the energy to overcome depression to make new friends."

I could have written the very same words.  My stepdaughter had to try (and fail) at independent living several times before she decided to take therapy seriously.  Since she was immature emotionally, it's almost as if she was set up to fail, trying to navigate an adult world on her own.  That would include managing/cleaning her apartment, feeding herself, working, making (and keeping) friends, managing her own calendar, living within a budget, etc.  I think she had a hard time going to bed at a reasonable hour and getting up in the morning on her own, let alone studying, working and feeding herself.  It was simply too much, when emotionally, she was operating at a young teen's level.  Plus, I think she was lonely.  She couldn't handle living with other girls (they'd kick her out), and yet she didn't want to live alone.  She didn't want to work or go to classes, but staying home and sulking wasn't fun at all.  There's only so much video bingeing, internet scrolling and marijuana smoking one can take.  In addition, I think she was envious that "everyone else" had such a good life, whereas all she felt was misery.  She'd lash out at family members blaming them for her current problems, and she was in denial about her self-sabotaging decisions which were all her own.  Does that sound about right?  It's almost as if she was addicted to her misery--she wasn't willing to get therapy, or try medications, or do anything to improve her situation, because she wasn't to blame, everyone else was.  And she'd wrap up with her misery like a warm blanket, retreating from the world most of the time.

Sometimes I think that with addicts, you offer to help them get help, but you withhold the means (e.g. money) to enable them to continue their self-destructive ways.  My husband had to give his daughter that ultimatum:  he would help her get therapy, but if she chose not to comply with doctors' orders, then she was free to choose that, but she'd be on her own.