Ex, Mother, and Brother?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi. I used to post here a few years ago after divorcing my ex-wife, who had BPD. At the time I went back to my family, hoping for support, but they treated me as a scapegoat and threw me out. This was completely out of the blue - I really thought we were a boring middle class family. I could not think of a single thing I did to warrant that, and it was only when processing that with a therapist that I realized that my mother was (almost certainly - diagnosis ain't gonna happen!) BPD. The family system was me as GC/scapegoat as suited. When my father died, all sense of a unit disappeared.

The last few years, to be honest, have been incredibly difficult. I ended up with a partner who turned out to have strong BPD/NPD traits. My attempts to build a community were stymied at every turn by her refusal to bring me into her many friend groups (in total certainly abusive behavior - came with four-day rages that she denied). I got out of that, as I have always had fairly strong 'NO' skills. But its been hard to find any community in the non-online world that actually understands any of this. Many therapists are stumped by it, and there's still a stigma attached to people who don't have happy nuclear families or at least don't say they do. I am careful about how I explain my lack of contact, but it's still difficult to navigate.

The reason I'm back, hoping for the kind of lucid advice I found when I was last here, is that I have recently realized that my youngest brother must be either BPD or very close. I am shocked that I haven't realized this, and have a faint hope that the knowledge will liberate me. There's no purpose in providing a full history, but he is frequently incredibly angry (before his own wedding - he'd insisted I was best man), refuses to discuss any of his behavior (insisting hosting the family the year after my father died and disappearing on the day to spend it with his girlfriend), coming close to violence when throwing me out after I left my marriage ("you're getting it now... get a PLEASE READing hotel"), clearly brooding for years and blaming me for things I simply haven't done.

I spent years attempting a reconciliation after he threw me out. He eventually apologized and said he was ashamed, but just last year I visited him for the first time since then and he blew it off, again leaving to go to the gym with his now wife, lying about the sleeping arrangements in a way that meant I almost needed to go to ER (long story but a well known sore point - rather not detail - but he denied all conversations), then refusing to speak before I went back home.

After that I was devastated. I wrote to him saying that he was clearly seriously depressed and that I would love him and be there for him, but only if he got help. His only reply to a long letter was "that sounds like self-pity" and (in respect of the 'get some help') "you are a not nice person." I have not heard a word since - we even had our one uncle die in the meantime and I he didn't even tell me about the memorial.

It's take me some months to put this together, but I know realize that this is almost certainly the anger of BPD, the avoidance, the point blank refusal to even discuss the consequences of his actions, and perhaps a violence I just never fully saw. I am not looking for validation for the sake of it, but I welcome any reflections on or questions about the BPD part of this.

My problem is that I'm looking at a future which feels incredibly bleak. This whole experience has been simply too hard to deal with. I've seen therapists, and I generally function fairly well, but finding a partner just seems high risk (despite what anyone says about healthy people being drawn to you etc. - it just doesn't work like that where I am - almost everyone is a hot mess - and Covid changed a great deal). And I am really struggling to find any community. It's been years.

Thoughts and any insight welcome. I'm not sure what a therapist could do as I've seen several, done some useful work, but otherwise just had the sessions and cost drip by without any change. I am open to anything that makes good sense. And if anyone is about to suggest volunteering, I've done that until I'm blue in the face, sorry...

Many, many thanks for reading.

[wellwellwell]

Hi. I used to post here a few years ago after divorcing my ex-wife, who had BPD. At the time I went back to my family, hoping for support, but they treated me as a scapegoat and threw me out. This was completely out of the blue - I really thought we were a boring middle class family. I could not think of a single thing I did to warrant that, and it was only when processing that with a therapist that I realized that my mother was (almost certainly - diagnosis ain't gonna happen!) BPD. The family system was me as GC/scapegoat as suited. When my father died, all sense of a unit disappeared.

The last few years, to be honest, have been incredibly difficult. I ended up with a partner who turned out to have strong BPD/NPD traits. My attempts to build a community were stymied at every turn by her refusal to bring me into her many friend groups (in total certainly abusive behavior - came with four-day rages that she denied). I got out of that, as I have always had fairly strong 'NO' skills. But its been hard to find any community in the non-online world that actually understands any of this. Many therapists are stumped by it, and there's still a stigma attached to people who don't have happy nuclear families or at least don't say they do. I am careful about how I explain my lack of contact, but it's still difficult to navigate.

The reason I'm back, hoping for the kind of lucid advice I found when I was last here, is that I have recently realized that my youngest brother must be either BPD or very close. I am shocked that I haven't realized this, and have a faint hope that the knowledge will liberate me. There's no purpose in providing a full history, but he is frequently incredibly angry (before his own wedding - he'd insisted I was best man), refuses to discuss any of his behavior (insisting hosting the family the year after my father died and disappearing on the day to spend it with his girlfriend), coming close to violence when throwing me out after I left my marriage ("you're getting it now... get a PLEASE READing hotel"), clearly brooding for years and blaming me for things I simply haven't done.

I spent years attempting a reconciliation after he threw me out. He eventually apologized and said he was ashamed, but just last year I visited him for the first time since then and he blew it off, again leaving to go to the gym with his now wife, lying about the sleeping arrangements in a way that meant I almost needed to go to ER (long story but a well known sore point - rather not detail - but he denied all conversations), then refusing to speak before I went back home.

After that I was devastated. I wrote to him saying that he was clearly seriously depressed and that I would love him and be there for him, but only if he got help. His only reply to a long letter was "that sounds like self-pity" and (in respect of the 'get some help') "you are a not nice person." I have not heard a word since - we even had our one uncle die in the meantime and I he didn't even tell me about the memorial.

It's take me some months to put this together, but I know realize that this is almost certainly the anger of BPD, the avoidance, the point blank refusal to even discuss the consequences of his actions, and perhaps a violence I just never fully saw. I am not looking for validation for the sake of it, but I welcome any reflections on or questions about the BPD part of this.

My problem is that I'm looking at a future which feels incredibly bleak. This whole experience has been simply too hard to deal with. I've seen therapists, and I generally function fairly well, but finding a partner just seems high risk (despite what anyone says about healthy people being drawn to you etc. - it just doesn't work like that where I am - almost everyone is a hot mess - and Covid changed a great deal). And I am really struggling to find any community. It's been years.

Thoughts and any insight welcome. I'm not sure what a therapist could do as I've seen several, done some useful work, but otherwise just had the sessions and cost drip by without any change. I am open to anything that makes good sense. And if anyone is about to suggest volunteering, I've done that until I'm blue in the face, sorry...

Many, many thanks for reading.

[zachira]

You are not alone in having many disordered family members. The scapegoat/golden child dynamic is very common in dysfunctional families. The biggest heartbreak can often be that we choose to surround ourselves with people who are just as disordered as our family members. It takes a long time, lots of getting to know ourselves, and learning to set appropriate boundaries to break the cycle. We are here to support you and we get it here! My mother with BPD is deceased. My sister has NPD. The scapegoat/golden child dynamic is in both my parents' families, with 5 generations on one side of the family. 

[wellwellwell]

Thank you for that. To be honest, I'm eight years into the process and it simply has not changed. I've just lost connections with people. I actively try not to allow any people with BPD traits into my life, but if I set boundaries, my life becomes, almost literally, completely empty of human contact. Partly life stage / circumstances, but it has been the only constant of the 'healing' process. This is why I am at rock bottom.

[Notwendy]

I think it is common that there are several members in a family either with some sort of disorder or learned behaviors to cope with that.

I think it's understandable to feel apprehensive about any relationship after dealing with these kinds of issues.

One of the books I read about BPD had a paragraph about dating after a relationship ends. This didn't apply to me but I read it out if curiosity. It mentioned boundaries as being either too "weak" - letting disordered people in or "too strong". When we meet people, it seems they can sense our boundaries. If we have "too strong" boundaries, non disordered people will sense that and keep a distance. The only people who will ignore them are people who ignore boundaries.

So both- too weak and too strong become a screen for letting disordered people in and keeping non disordered people out.

Meeting people, putting ourselves out there, this is always risky. I think a key point is to go slow- in general- but one has to put themselves in a position to meet people- either through volunteer activities, religious communities, sports, hobbies. From being in 12 step ACA/CODA groups it's common for people to self isolate. Having people meet as a group is one way to help counteract this. Some people in the groups I have gone to also do social things together but it's by choice, not a requirement. This may be one place to start with.

[wellwellwell]

Thank you for that. My problem is that I am several years into the process. I've put myself out there, spent periods engaging, tried many different ways to approach socializing, and I simply don't get anywhere. I've tried support groups, new hobbies, offering to set up groups, always trying to engage in a balanced way by being fairly open about my experiences but not leading with them, and often not mentioning them at all, but I simply always end up without any social group or community. I'm male and in my 50s, and this is simply a really difficult position to be in. I would much rather have a 'gang' than a partner, but any women I meet are only really interested in people who want to date them, and men are rarely open to conversation about anything other than fitness.

This is where the loss of both my family and marriage several years ago seems to have left me unable to function as part of society. Unnecessary, I suppose. I have met hundreds of people over the last few years and not one has revealed a history remotely like mine. Not one has a working understanding of abuse - they just use the word to refer to 'normal' fighting.

[TelHill]

Hello wellwellwell,

I used to post here mainly about my elderly dBPD mom and her lifelong targeting of me. Unfortunately she now has advanced dementia and is quiet and cooperative. It’s quite a change and a relief.

The other part of your story sounds familiar. I divorced a bpd/psychopathic man while in my mid 50s and looked to my family for help. I was verbally and emotionally abused by my dBPD mother and uBPD/NPD  brother and disordered cousins. My mom was no surprise but the behaviors of the others were a shock to the system. They ganged up against me with my brother egging them on. I was seeing their true colors being in a vulnerable state after a divorce and my ex-husband’s death. It’s not rare. I’ve heard the same stories from other later-in-life divorced people and widows/widowers.

I’ve had similar difficulties finding friend groups and dates. Therapists I saw were not helpful. I gave up. I was tired of wasting my money.

I don’t know if this is a solution as I’m still not where I want to be. I’m still rebuilding. What’s true for my life may not be true for you. I am putting it out there in case something might resonate. I am a person who works hard to get what I want. It’s great for a career but not so much for friendships. I was forcing it and not being natural. I don’t have goals for friendships or dates. My goal is to enjoy myself and be around people. I feel happier this way.

I was looking for people to truly understand what had happened to me. That wasn’t working either. I was looking for a shortcut to deal with the emotional pain and grief. No one can really understand and they shouldn’t have to. It takes time to build trust to tell them these things. Meanwhile, I want to have fun and not think about it.

Things aren’t the same as when I was in my 20s where there were lots of people to be friends with and date. The pool is much smaller and we all have wounds from past relationships. One bad dating experience past divorce set me back.

I am attending a 12 step group (CODA — codependents anonymous) to deal with past grief and learn how to have loving and supportive relationships and friendships. Many people there are in the same boat. There are plenty of other 12 step groups out there. I attend NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill) groups for family members of those suffering from a mental illness.

[Methuen]

I've put myself out there, spent periods engaging, tried many different ways to approach socializing, and I simply don't get anywhere. I've tried support groups, new hobbies, offering to set up groups, always trying to engage in a balanced way by being fairly open about my experiences but not leading with them, and often not mentioning them at all, but I simply always end up without any social group or community. I'm male and in my 50s, and this is simply a really difficult position to be in. I would much rather have a 'gang' than a partner, but any women I meet are only really interested in people who want to date them, and men are rarely open to conversation about anything other than fitness.

Wow.  Sounds like you have done a lot. I'm really sorry that this effort hasn't panned out for you with all the effort you put into this.  If your goal was to foster a new healthy relationship, but that didn't work out, I have to hope that (silver lining?) there were many other healthy benefits that came from these activities, even if finding relationship(s) didn't pan out the way you hoped.

I think for me one of most painful parts is the awareness I developed over the years about just how dysfunctional my mother, my childhood, and my lifelong relationship with her was - because I didn't know.  When our eyes are fully open and "seeing", it can be overwhelming.  How to come back from that...

Amongst my friends, I have been described as private and protective - which surprised me because I don't see myself that way.  But when I stop and reflect, maybe I can see that would be the optic?  Sometimes I wonder if we see ourselves differently than other people see us.  People who know me would describe me as caring and friendly, but to someone who doesn't know me but meets me in a group, I am kinda curious how I would be perceived.  I've never asked...  But I wouldn't be surprised if someone perceived me to be standoffish.  That would be the private and protective part...

If you are in your 50's, you could still be working, or contemplating retirement, or retired.  I have thoughts, but don't know where to go with them, since I don't know which of those apply to you.

Still, here's a hail mary idea:  Do you like to travel?  If you were on a tour or with a group of people somewhere (or a cruise?), it's an opportunity to be with a group of people enjoying the same activity and gives a space to talk about activities you are enjoying together (not "fitness").  Since the group is "fixed" and is on the tour together, it's sort of a closed environment with people, which provides opportunities to talk about what you've seen or done.  And it's fun (unless one doesn't like to travel). 

I don’t know if this is a solution as I’m still not where I want to be. I’m still rebuilding. What’s true for my life may not be true for you. I am putting it out there in case something might resonate. I am a person who works hard to get what I want. It’s great for a career but not so much for friendships. I was forcing it and not being natural. I don’t have goals for friendships or dates. My goal is to enjoy myself and be around people. I feel happier this way.

I was looking for people to truly understand what had happened to me. That wasn’t working either. I was looking for a shortcut to deal with the emotional pain and grief. No one can really understand and they shouldn’t have to. It takes time to build trust to tell them these things. Meanwhile, I want to have fun and not think about it.

 
This resonates with me, even though my situation is different than yours.  But I think it makes a lot of sense to connect with people in other (happy) ways, and build relationships where it feels right, and just have fun.  Enjoy yourself.  Focus on the positives and finding positivity.
Which is hard when we are consumed with family and relationship problems.  It's too easy to focus on the negative stuff at hand (which can be consuming) and be a glass half empty person, and much harder and more work to be a glass half full person.  Especially when we've grown up around disordered and glass half empty people.

It's just all really really hard. 

I feel like I'm rambling now, so really just want to send support.

[Notwendy]

I was looking for people to truly understand what had happened to me. That wasn’t working either. I was looking for a shortcut to deal with the emotional pain and grief. No one can really understand and they shouldn’t have to. It takes time to build trust to tell them these things. Meanwhile, I want to have fun and not think about it.

I am attending a 12 step group (CODA — codependents anonymous) to deal with past grief and learn how to have loving and supportive relationships and friendships. Many people there are in the same boat. There are plenty of other 12 step groups out there. I attend NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill) groups for family members of those suffering from a mental illness.

I can relate to this feeling "looking for others to connect" on an emotional level, and what is interesting is that after spending time in 12 step groups- this feeling is much less.

So as was said- was this feeling looking for something that was missing from my childhood or FOO? If so, then that is not something other people can provide for us- we have to deal with our own childhood/emotional issues.

This "feeling" may also lead us into relationships with disordered people as they may have their own issues to deal with.

I began to notice this feeling of difficulty connecting in middle school.

ACA and CODA helped me to feel more content with not feeling that need to connect like before. I am grateful to have my family. I want to have some friends but I don't really enjoy doing a lot of socializing, some is OK. I think the terms "caring but protective and private" would apply here too. I don't see this as a negative though- I don't expect people to emotionally connect over experiences they didn't have but we can connect over other things- mutual interests, etc. ACA and CODA did help with feeling more content with relationships with people.