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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: At the end of the line  (Read 528 times)
canttakemuchmore

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« on: February 10, 2017, 01:33:44 AM »

My wife has some form of personality disorder with ptsd but doesn't fit the diagnosis perfectly. What she does have is unbelievable rage episodes that have gotten worse over time. The slightest (eggshell trigger) will send her over the edge yelling, insults, put downs, threats of divorce and how she will make me suffer.  I have learned to not engage for the most part but it still sucks. She is now mostly hostile towards me or just cold and distant. No sex, affection, positive comments etc. 

Unlike borderlines ( I believe) she doesn't ever apologize or even acknowledge she has a problem beyond yelling at me that she once admitted it long ago. Her whole thing is that I have the problem and have to admit it. I have repeatedly asked her to get help and she found a therapist who helps her blame others rather than deal with her rage. In couples counseling she will not discuss her rage and accuses me of lying. We have a teenage daughter and I have stayed mostly for her but it's now becoming unbearable. She is threatening divorce tonight so I guess I'll see how she is tomorrow once the rage wears off. I do go to a therapist every other week to vent and try to recover from the gas lighting I go through. She believes there is nothing I can do to improve things if she doesn't want to get help. If she does go through with leaving me she could get very nasty with lying and manipulating to get her way. Trying to believe there may be life on the side of this but it's hard. I will not admit to some bogus diagnosis of hers that has no basis in reality. ( the list includes passive aggressive, aspergers, narcissist none of which I am)  Any advice? 
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infjEpic
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 04:45:03 AM »

Welcome to the family!

My wife has some form of personality disorder with ptsd but doesn't fit the diagnosis perfectly.

Diagnosis is irrelevant.
Her behaviour is what is important.

Do you consider it abusive?

Excerpt
Unlike borderlines ( I believe) she doesn't ever apologize or even acknowledge she has a problem

No, that's actually quite typical for Borderlines, especially people who have Narcissistic traits

Excerpt
Any advice? 

What do you want to do ?
Do you want to leave or stay?

If you want to stay, then I'd probably start recording some of those rages, so you can play them back in couple's counselling.
She cannot accuse you of lying.
The therapist can recommend she try DBT - most likely she will tell him to do one and deny she has a problem. (probably explode at you for recording them too.)
It's very unlikely to help, but you can try if you want.

Borderlines think in absolute terms - good or evil. From the current description you have given, it sounds as though she has decided you are evil, so I would be prepared for an escalation in the levels of abuse.

Only reason I would even discuss the 'stay' option, is because of your daughter.

If you want to leave, we can discuss that too. But you have to make that decision for you.

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Keef
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Relationship status: Separated since late November 2016.
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 04:56:29 AM »

canttakemuchmore, Welcome

I am sorry to hear about your experience. Although not married to my ex (undiagnosed borderline, heavy traits of BPD) I can very much relate to the extreme blaming, raging, withholding of intimacy etc.

Unlike borderlines ( I believe) she doesn't ever apologize or even acknowledge she has a problem

This is on the contrary one of the hallmarks of BPD. This type of denial is very common, as you will recognize when reading the posts of others. I suggest you look around here on BPD Family, to the extent you feel is comfortable, and that you keep posting. When we are in the middle of the storm we easily lose ourselves, being subjected to the other's accusations, sometimes we question our ideas and emotions up to a point where we believe our partner has been right all along.

Her whole thing is that I have the problem and have to admit it.

canttakemuchmore, are you familiar with the psychological term 'projection'? Basically, the person with BPD will use this as a way of shifting her/his feelings of low self-esteem, shame etc ----> you.
Many here including myself have been through this.

I am very sorry that your daughter is in the middle of all of this. I understand you live together as a family? It is terrible to be in a situation where threats of different kinds are abundant.

Here are a couple of links for further reading:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder
https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog
(NB, I am not saying your wife suffers from BPD - and even if someone professional was to diagnose her as such that would never excuse abusive behaviour).

Two questions for you:
Is this behaviour new to you?
What does your therapist and the couples counsellor respectively have to say about the family situation?

Do let us know. We are here to help.
/Keef
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 10:27:46 AM »

Hey can'ttakemuchmore, Welcome!  You have come to the right place.  I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.  From what you describe, I find your W's behavior quite consistent with BPD.  How can we help?  LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
canttakemuchmore

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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 07:06:19 PM »

Thanks for the feedback. Because of my daughter I want to stick it out until it's unbearable which it is close to being. The good news is she hasn't gotten violent beyond smashing small things but I do worry one day it will be a guitar or worse. My daughter has a lot of anxiety issues probably due to being around this. I do think I should try to film a meltdown.  Evidence is good. I told our couples  therapist how she basically kidnapped us one night when she was pissed driving to the middle of nowhere at 1 am until I finally gave in to her demands. He was a bit shocked but otherwise pretty useless. The advice I have gotten from my therapist is if I am going to stay just don't engage with the crazy and appreciate what good is left. That is what I try. Don't take anything personally although that is hard when she calls you awful names and says hateful things. The couples counselor said the only way to get her to listen is to threaten divorce. He says she then might actually make some effort to change. I think she will explode. My therapist thinks there is no changing her. Sadly she is smart and interesting and we once had good sex but the rage is just terrible. It is definitely abusive. Another therapist thought it was too. She does not think so of course.

I guess a question is has anyone here ever had success in couples therapy with a borderline spouse?  It seems they are very adept at manipulating therapists and that therapists don't know how to handle the rage when it happens in the room. ( she will storm out if she doesn't like the way things are going). I am very glad I found this info on the internet and the eggshell book because it has definitely helped me stay sane. Thanks
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infjEpic
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 08:26:08 PM »

I guess a question is has anyone here ever had success in couples therapy with a borderline spouse? 

I've no useful advice to offer unfortunately, but you may find this article helpful:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

You may also want to browse some of the past topics in this forum:
Saving a Relationship That Is in or Near Breakup
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=15.0

Some of the other posters in this forum and others will certainly have interesting perspectives and opinions
Good Luck!
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canttakemuchmore

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 02:18:15 AM »

Well it's the next day and the rage has passed.  No mention of it and I have to carry on as if all is fine because if I say anything it all starts over again. I wonder if anyone else notices how pms really exacerbates things. Once a month we have a definite outburst. Holidays, birthdays, relative visits, road trips also guarantee an episode. Even knowing all this it still wipes me out every time. Read about feeling empathy but that sure is hard when you've been abused. Best advice is to take everything slow and don't get lost in the fog.
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Lugnut

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Relationship status: Married 10 years
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 05:58:12 AM »

Hi canttakemuchmore,
I am going through a very similar situation as you.
I am new here and in the earliest of stages trying to cope and help my W.
I did a lot of studying on this site and it has definitely helped me out a lot in the past week.
Most importantly I feel better about myself!
I have started to tryout some of the advice tips from this site with my W and after only a short while I have seen an improvement.
Having learned on here about how a person with BPD thinks has been very helpful. Not taking there insults personally is hard and not natural for me but I have been able to not let it bother me.
I know I have a long road to travel still.
I am now looking at my wife as not so much of a B---h.
But as someone who is actually sick. I still have no idea how I am going to get her the help she needs but at least I am trying on my part.
Best of luck.
E

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Krato

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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 05:20:24 PM »

Hi canttakemuchmore,

I am also on the same boat. Two small kids and I'm trying to play time until it becomes totally unbearable. Remember that it's ok to feel anger and even hate towards your partner. It just means you are on the right path on your road. Take care of yourself and write a journal. I'm sure your therapist is a big help to you. The difficult part is what Lugnut described. It's hard to say how much of it is sickness and how much is just abuse and taking advantage of you.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 12:01:38 PM »

Hey canttake, You're right, the rage passes, as you describe, in my experience usually within 24 hours.  Yet don't kid yourself: it always returns, which is why it's a vicious cycle.  It's a moving target, because what triggered her last time will be different next time, so it's almost impossible to predict what will cause the next explosion.  You're walking through a mine field, my friend.  No, I think what you are describing is way beyond typical PMS.  Yup, my BPDxW smashed plenty of photos and personal mementos.  Agree, those w/BPD are experts at manipulating others and are generally quite hostile to the concept of counseling.  Nothing wrong w/couples therapy and worth a try, but suggest you keep your expectations low.  A good T will pick up on BPD.

LuckyJim
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Keef
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Relationship status: Separated since late November 2016.
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 04:30:35 PM »

Well it's the next day and the rage has passed.
Persons with (traits of) BPD have a tendency to forget when it's for their benefit as you have seen, and yet they can have great difficulty in letting go of things they feel (and therefore often are convinced of) have hurt them. It can be baffling. It's a no-win.

I wonder if anyone else notices how pms really exacerbates things. Once a month we have a definite outburst. Holidays, birthdays, relative visits, road trips also guarantee an episode.
Could be. Or it's a case of their unstable emotionality excarberating the PMS (PMS is really a different discussion). I have no proof for either. I can _really_ relate to the outbursts connected to (even sometimes not so great) changes of daily routine.

What your therapist is saying is of course all well-meant, but I do have considerations about not engaging "with the crazy" and appreciating "what good is left". This is not a more or less normal relationship. The positive sides, when you still encounter them, are probably unstable and uncertain too. Threatening a pwBPD, as the couple's counsellor put it, may not be a good idea. It could be your wife, like you suspect, will act out. Threats do not at all go well with emotional instability, as you may have noticed earlier things you've said may have been perceived as threats when in fact you were only trying to, say, reinforce a healthy boundary for you and your daughter.

I don't wish to worry you, and I'm sorry that my advice isn't as constructive as I would have wanted it to be. I wish you the best and hopefully someone more versed in family matters/legal matters can jump in soon.

Please take care.
Keef
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canttakemuchmore

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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 12:08:52 PM »

I appreciate the messages that help me feel I am not crazy and that this is something others have experienced.  After the fights it always ends up with her insisting I have to get help and that she will not under any circumstances discuss her issues.  It drives me crazy. She is the one ranting and insulting and threatening and has done it repeatedly for ten years and yet I am the one who needs therapy because I can't "hear" what she is saying about how it is all my fault.  Thanks for hearing me vent.  Happy Valentines Day. 
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 10:07:20 AM »

Excerpt
She is the one ranting and insulting and threatening and has done it repeatedly for ten years and yet I am the one who needs therapy because I can't "hear" what she is saying about how it is all my fault.

Hey canttake, It's a one-way street, my friend.  Don't expect a pwBPD to accept blame or responsibility, because that would be tantamount to painting him/herself black, which is unlikely to happen.  LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
canttakemuchmore

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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 07:27:40 PM »

Well she wants a divorce now. Guess we will go that way. It will be unpleasant but eventually I will settle into a new life without the crazy which will be nice. I expect she will make it as unpleasant as she can so I will try to detach from the process as much as I can. It's kind of funny that this whole blowup was because I asked if we could not block the bathroom light switch with a shelf cause I kind of like turning on the light. I never know where the eggshells lay.
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infjEpic
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 03:58:09 AM »

Well she wants a divorce now.

Have you made a determination for yourself?


Assuming the divorce does go ahead, I would begin to prepare for the most shocking and callous abuse.

It would help to begin by familiarising yourself with past posts in this forum:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0
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