No personal history of trauma, not a bad family or childhood. What else?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Ive taleked about this with my therapist a lot. Most often people find themselves in these relationships due to patterns that molded them from childhood. My issue, is i had a great childhood. Truly wonderful.

Never saw my parents fight. No cheating or drama. Stay at home mom who was so involved and fun. Working dad who was extremely present even though he was caring for us all. They made it work regardless of salary or anything else. My sisters and I generally got along well. Random little kid fights and hitting and all, but always together as we we are only separated by 2 years each. All held accountable. All responsible. All raised with the same morals and values.

My two sisters are married, one with 5 kids the other with 3. I'm the only one without a family now.

I was bullied badly through 6th grade but I can honestly say it doesn't cross my mind. My parents were always there. I wasnt left in the cold to deal with things. I dont think about it at all.

I wasnt abused, molested, ignored. Nothing. Many therapists and books lend themselves to pointing at an unhealed inner-child. I dont imagine infall into that category.

So, why have I fallen victim to these types of people 3 times now? I'd really like to unravle whatever makes me continue the same mistakes.

[Me88]

Ive taleked about this with my therapist a lot. Most often people find themselves in these relationships due to patterns that molded them from childhood. My issue, is i had a great childhood. Truly wonderful.

Never saw my parents fight. No cheating or drama. Stay at home mom who was so involved and fun. Working dad who was extremely present even though he was caring for us all. They made it work regardless of salary or anything else. My sisters and I generally got along well. Random little kid fights and hitting and all, but always together as we we are only separated by 2 years each. All held accountable. All responsible. All raised with the same morals and values.

My two sisters are married, one with 5 kids the other with 3. I'm the only one without a family now.

I was bullied badly through 6th grade but I can honestly say it doesn't cross my mind. My parents were always there. I wasnt left in the cold to deal with things. I dont think about it at all.

I wasnt abused, molested, ignored. Nothing. Many therapists and books lend themselves to pointing at an unhealed inner-child. I dont imagine infall into that category.

So, why have I fallen victim to these types of people 3 times now? I'd really like to unravle whatever makes me continue the same mistakes.

[PeteWitsend]

...

So, why have I fallen victim to these types of people 3 times now? I'd really like to unravle whatever makes me continue the same mistakes.

I think there are two things to consider here:

1) whether you're attracting the wrong types of people; and

2) why you're allowing these relationships to continue.

The answer to the first question is tough, if not impossible to figure out; there are a lot of fish in the sea, but you landed three lousy ones.  Are you doing something that's attracting them?  Or could be bad luck?

As far as whether it's your fault, I think you'd need to take a good hard look at why this could happen.  To continue the fishing analogy, are you fishing in the wrong place?  How are you meeting these people?  Also consider that as time goes on, the # of "good fish" in the sea is going to decline as they enter stable relationships, leaving more lousy ones there.  So yeah, dating becomes more of a minefield over time.

It's certainly harder to control your response to the first question.  I think you shouldn't focus as  much on it.  There's nothing you can do about bad luck or attracting the wrong person, but you can limit it's impact on you.

Which brings up the second question: why are you allowing these relationships to continue for as long as they do?   How much time did you spend dating lousy partners that might've kept you from meeting a good one? 

You can control that!

You note that you tolerated bullying for a long time.  That's unfortunate, and it's not to absolve the bullies - who were wrong - but we live in a society where you have to stand up for yourself, and if you don't the bullying is just going to continue. 

Honestly, from the other threads you've posted, it sounds like that may be a big part of what's going on here.  You allow your partners to set the standard for how you'll be treated, and it's making you unhappy.  Bullying doesn't always take such an obvious form, but as I've learned, emotional abuse and mental abuse is still the same thing.  Female bullies may be less likely to resort to physical abuse, so they engage in other forms of it. 

[PeteWitsend]

My kingdom for an edit button!  I meant to say:

"There's nothing you can do about bad luck and it's hard to know for sure why you're attracting the wrong person, but you can limit it's impact on you.

[Me88]

That all makes sense.

My friends and immediate family often ask why i stay in these relationships for so long. My honest answer is that I know how normal they can act. They have it in them to be good and fun and loving. And it never fully disappears, theres horrible moments then bouts of great times. But the more I learn I realize this is the push pull game to trap you. 

As far as bullying it did suck. I do feel over it. If a man, or anyone really is rude or disrespectful, I definitely do stand up for myself. I am very good when it comes to enforcing boundaries with almost every person in my life. My only issue of concern in my adult life has been women. I dont know why. I know intimate relationships are different to friends and all. But it's still proven to hurt me.

I wish I knew what questions to ask my therapist. Or identify my own patterns. I'm not exaggerating when I say I virtually have everything else in life sorted out. I'm a solid adult. I just date women with bad childhoods and actual diagnosed mental health disorders.

[CC43]

I can think of a number of reasons there are people with BPD in your life.  First, pwBPD tend to be intense emotionally speaking.  You might be attracted to that intensity, because it can be alluring.  It's like the proverbial girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead--when she's good, she's very, very good, but when she's bad, she's horrid.  The thing is, usually you see the good part before the bad.

Secondly, pwBPD can seem completely "normal" sometimes, which is one of the reasons that BPD is so confounding and frustrating.  By seeing the "normal" side, you come to expect normalcy.  But then there's a meltdown that takes you by surprise--and it takes you by surprise because of your expectation.  Does the pwBPD in your life always seem able to "pull themselves together" when they want to?  That's because they do exactly that.  But sooner or later, their emotions will take over and there will be a meltdown, assuming that they are untreated for BPD.

Thirdly, you're probably a wonderful person.  You work really hard at your relationships.  You probably tend to blame yourself when things don't go well.  Even in the face of adversity, you continue to try to patch things up.  You might be an optimist, thinking, if I just apologize, or avoid triggers, or act really nicely, the relationship will work out.  You keep trying!  The issue is, you're probably doing most of the work, while the pwBPD is likely blaming you, if not abusing you.

Finally, most people don't have expertise in BPD.  I certainly didn't until a loved one was diagnosed.  I thought that 99% of the people I met were "normal," and maybe that's true.  But when you experience BPD, you start to see some behavior patterns and get a deeper understanding of it.  Yet I think you have to actually experience it to comprehend it, because many of the issues seem incomprehensible at first.  For example, self-sabotage seems illogical, but that's typical with BPD, because BPD is about reactions to intense emotions, not logic.

[PeteWitsend]

...

Finally, most people don't have expertise in BPD.  I certainly didn't until a loved one was diagnosed.  I thought that 99% of the people I met were "normal," and maybe that's true.  But when you experience BPD, you start to see some behavior patterns and get a deeper understanding of it.  Yet I think you have to actually experience it to comprehend it, because many of the issues seem incomprehensible at first.  For example, self-sabotage seems illogical, but that's typical with BPD, because BPD is about reactions to intense emotions, not logic.

This is key; it hit me like a lightning bolt when someone said my then-wife had a lot of the characteristics of BPD.  As I read through the traits, and unlikelihood that she would change, with or without medication, and realized this was the person I was "stuck" with, it hurt.

I always knew there were "crazy" people, and there were "abusive" people, and I figured I'd be able to recognize them from a mile away and avoid them.  It was pretty devastating to realize it wasn't that easy.  BPD is very insidious... in interpersonal relationships it doesn't really reveal itself until months or years of time with a person, when you start to see a pattern and start to see the sort of inconsistent "I hate you - don't leave me" messages from the person that you realize you're not dealing with a "normal" adult. 

And OF COURSE, there are good times with the bad times.  They know they have to provide some incentive to keep you chasing them.  And sometimes they even admit they have a problem with themselves and say they want to get help!  They will do and say anything to stay in the relationship: and why not?  the relationship is extremely one-sided in their favor; the Non "chases" them emotionally and romantically to try to reassure them and get back on their good side.  The Non doesn't hold them accountable for their behavior.  The Non doesn't leave them like all their prior partners did, no matter how they behave.  They have no incentive to change. 

If you've grown up learning to compromise, to be trusting by default, and to be generous expecting the same in return, you're almost primed to slide deeper into these sorts of relationships. 

Even aside from BPD, I think an important thing to remember is to keep your wits about you as you meet a potential new romantic partner.  Are you "over-extending yourself" to impress them?  Are you worried if you say the wrong thing, or don't keep them happy they'll leave you?  Keep these feelings in mind and be aware of them. Consider why you're concerned, why you have those feelings, and how another person could take advantage of them.

[PeteWitsend]

That all makes sense.

My friends and immediate family often ask why i stay in these relationships for so long. My honest answer is that I know how normal they can act. They have it in them to be good and fun and loving. And it never fully disappears, theres horrible moments then bouts of great times. But the more I learn I realize this is the push pull game to trap you. 

...

They CAN act normal... except in the context of close relationships, where their fears of abandonment and crippling insecurities drive them to constantly seek assurances from their partners & draw them closer, which -given their poor sense of self  - triggers their contradictory fears of enmeshment and leads them to push you away... triggering their fear of abandonment, and the cycle continues ad infinitum, which is what you're in.

The push pull game isn't really what traps you; the sweetness, "love-bombing," and intense emotional connection traps you.  The push pull game is what you get trapped in. 

[HoratioX]

Ive taleked about this with my therapist a lot. Most often people find themselves in these relationships due to patterns that molded them from childhood. My issue, is i had a great childhood. Truly wonderful.

Never saw my parents fight. No cheating or drama. Stay at home mom who was so involved and fun. Working dad who was extremely present even though he was caring for us all. They made it work regardless of salary or anything else. My sisters and I generally got along well. Random little kid fights and hitting and all, but always together as we we are only separated by 2 years each. All held accountable. All responsible. All raised with the same morals and values.

My two sisters are married, one with 5 kids the other with 3. I'm the only one without a family now.

I was bullied badly through 6th grade but I can honestly say it doesn't cross my mind. My parents were always there. I wasnt left in the cold to deal with things. I dont think about it at all.

I wasnt abused, molested, ignored. Nothing. Many therapists and books lend themselves to pointing at an unhealed inner-child. I dont imagine infall into that category.

So, why have I fallen victim to these types of people 3 times now? I'd really like to unravle whatever makes me continue the same mistakes.

I grew up in a very similar situation, with a similar history as yours.

Here's the thing: There may be nothing wrong with you (or by extension, me).

If you grow up in a moving family, surrounded by good role models, and raised with values most people would find admirable, that can make you (and by extension, me), and easy mark for someone who is a consummate manipulator and/or con artist.

You want to see the best in other people. That makes you easy to manipulate. You are honest and up front. That means your buttons to push are highly visible. You want to give others the benefit of the doubt. That means you are generous and forgiving.

I suggest to people to see a therapist because that's the professional thing to do, but the reality is a therapist is usually looking to find something wrong in everyone. Sometimes that isn't the case. That's not to say we don't have faults or we don't have problems. It's to say they may not be relevant to this situation or to the degree that others may want to say they are.

So, while I don't know you and it may even sound self serving, sometimes it's not us or, at least, it's not as much us. Anyone who has ever been victim of a con artist wants to blame themselves, but it's the con artist who did them wrong. The victim is complicit only to the degree they help the con artist but know better. A good con artist hides that as much as possible, and someone with a profound mental and emotional illness like BPD can be a consummate manipulator.

So, it's fine to reflect and ask yourself questions. If you can learn from this experience, certainly you should. Be being taken advantage of by someone with the disturbed need to do so should not by itself make you think something is wrong with you. Sometimes, healthy people are simply the easiest to victimize.

[HoratioX]

Sorry, that should read "in a loving family." Thanks.

[Pook075]

For me personally, I love helping other people.  I take a lot of pride in being the first one that many of my friends or family would call when there's a problem; I just love helping them work through it and find the right answer.  That's why I love posting here as well, it brings me joy to pay it forward.

People who know me would also say that I'm fiercely loyal.  If we're friends, I have your back no matter what and I'll do everything I can to help you, to protect you.  And there's a downside to that as well; I've stuck with lousy friends much longer than I should have at times.  I don't regret it though because that's what felt right in my heart.

I married someone with BPD despite the many warning signs, and we ended up having a BPD daughter together.  It would have been so easy for someone else to walk away, to flee from the chaos, but that's just not who I am.  I stood by my wife and my kid, fighting for them as much as I could. 

And looking back, I don't regret any of it.  I was true to who I am, who I want to be in this world.

Since then I've divorced and remarried, and at times I wondered if my current wife also has BPD.  She can be unreasonable at times and when she gets mad, it's explosive.  However, she's also super loving and compassionate, always looking out for me and taking care of me.  Even if I learn someday that she does have mental illness (which I don't believe), it wouldn't change anything because I'm still being true to me and I love her.

Understand that loving someone with mental illness is not a weakness...it's a gift.  It means you're loving and compassionate.  It means you easily forgive and show empathy, even when you're not being treated fairly.  In my book, it means that you're probably a pretty good person and we might be great friends if we met in real life.

In my opinion, you need to stop searching for "what's wrong with me?"  There's nothing wrong with being loving and compassionate towards complicated people.  If we're honest, we are just as complicated since we make mistakes as well.  Showing grace is never a mistake though, it's a blessing to give freely to others.

[PeteWitsend]

...

Since then I've divorced and remarried, and at times I wondered if my current wife also has BPD.  She can be unreasonable at times and when she gets mad, it's explosive.  However, she's also super loving and compassionate, always looking out for me and taking care of me.  ...

As I understand it, behavioral disorders are not as easy to diagnose; there aren't entirely consistent behaviors from one case to another, and some people exhibit them to a larger degree than others. 

It could also be something else in her case.  I've read some accounts here of women having hormonal issues tied to their menstrual cycles, but it being mistaken for BPD, and that only being diagnosed correctly when someone else starts tracking the episodes and notices the trend. 

In my experience, I've been with two women that quite possibly had a behavioral disorder.  I suspect they had each been subjected to abuse while very young, although neither admitted it exactly.  I was pretty convinced at the time my XW was BPD, and others concurred, based on her behavior.  I do wonder now if BPDxw had some overlap with anti-social personality disorder (ASPD); there was a calculated meanness to her actions, and a desire to actively hurt others (emotionally, mentally, and  attack their reputations).  Whereas my later girlfriend just seemed more hapless and unable to control her temper when she was triggered (which happened more and more as time went on).  That seems more like BPD to me. 

It's not really possible to say without extensive therapy to diagnose a disorder though, and I think for us, for the Non, it ultimately doesn't matter.  The bottom line is you have to decide what you want in your life and how you expect to be treated and what you're going to allow.  It doesn't matter if your partner is disordered (BPD or something else) if they treat you poorly, especially if you have kids together and that behavior is now being normalized and taught to a new generation.

[once removed]

I just date women with bad childhoods and actual diagnosed mental health disorders.

if this has happened 3 times, make no mistake: it isnt an accident. its the answer itself.

and, respectfully, it likely isnt about who you attract. if youre george clooney/brad pitt, or taylor swift/beyonce, you will disproportionately attract more people, of all kinds. disproportionately attractive people dont necessarily have disproportionately dysfunctional relationships, and attracting a dysfunctional person, in and of itself, is not only harmless, it stands to reason, if youre a functional person.

sure, theres a lot of bad luck involved in dating, and a lot of dysfunctional people out there. youre bound to pair with some, at least initially (not the same thing as getting into, remaining in, and contributing to a dysfunctional relationship). it is also true that if someone is disproportionately attracting dysfunctional people, absent (or otherwise repelling) healthy suitors, that person may be dysfunctional themselves, and exhibiting it.

at the end of the day, this dynamic is something you are attracted to, and gravitating toward. when you understand that, its a game changer. youre in charge. you can begin to make a shift toward consciously healthier choices.

i understand youre looking to get at the heart of why, but youre doing so through the lens of external factors: "what, other than me, is causing my bad luck in relationships"?. but in your own words, these are ongoing, conscious choices. and in other words, while we can speculate, and it may help, youre the only one that can ultimately answer the question.

our childhood, our family, our parents and their parenting, are our earliest and most impactful blueprint for our model of love and relationships (other early relationships are important too). while you say you had a normal, happy, healthy childhood and family, (no reason to doubt it), its also important to note we are also not necessarily the most objective judges of these things, because they represent what is our "normal". we pick up all sorts of subtle lessons about love, and what we equate it with. and besides, the inverse is true: a dysfunctional family or traumatic childhood is not a guarantee of particular relationship outcomes. that explains why a loving family might produce 3 otherwise "normal" children, and 1 with bpd. the "nurture" element is important, but so is the "nature".

it is good to examine our blueprint; it can explain many things that help shape us. for some, its an obvious connection. for others, it wont necessarily explain everything, or anything in particular. it may be a piece, and not the whole puzzle.

when we gravitate repeatedly to something we profess not to want, it means there is something deep down that we are getting out of the dynamic; it fills an emotional need. what that "something" is is not always obvious. it may require some deep digging, along with objective third party perspective. but a good start might be here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

People with a predisposition to be a codependent enabler often find themselves in relationships where their primary role is that of rescuer, supporter, and confidante. These helper types are often dependent on the other person's poor functioning to satisfy their own emotional needs.
...
Codependents are often inherently afraid of being rejected or abandoned, even if they can function on their own, and in these cases the enabling behavior is a way to mitigate fears of abandonment (NOTE: this, in part, explains why a person would choose dysfunctional partners, as opposed to healthy ones: they feel safe, wont reject us).  Codependent enablers often lack in self-worth and define their worth through another's eyes, thoughts, or views of them. They need other people to validate them to feel okay about themselves and without this, they are unable to find their own worth or identity.  For some, the codependent relationship will satisfy the need to feel competent and low self-esteem is boosted by comparing oneself to the dysfunctional partner.
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When the relationship starts breaking down,  the codependent enabler will sacrifice their own emotional needs in order to keep the relationship going. At this point, he or she starts to lose themselves.  The mantra of a typical enabler is, "I do everything for her in the relationship.  It's not because of me that we have problems."

These imbalanced relationships can go on for some time, however, they are ultimately unsustainable due to their consumption of the enabler's emotional, financial or physical resources, and because they lead to resentment and relationship strain for both participants.
...
According to Bowen's Family Theory, families and other social groups tremendously affect how people think, feel, and act, and individuals vary in their susceptibility to, and dependence on how others think. These differences are based on the differences in people's levels of "differentiation of self". The less developed a person's "self," the more impact others have on his functioning and the more he tries to control, actively or passively, the functioning of others. Every human society has its well-differentiated people, poorly-differentiated people, and people at many gradations between these extremes.
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The greatest problem people face in getting help for codependency is a lack of self-awareness; simply not seeing their role in the relationship dysfunction. Codependents instinctually know that the relationship is unhealthy but they are convinced that the problem lies with the other person or that the problem is situational. They keep complaining about and trying to fix the other person.

The concept of codependency provides a useful framework for examining how healthy our interactions are in relationships with others.  Becoming aware of your codependent traits is the first, and most important step in dealing with them.  With awareness comes the opportunity for change.  The fact is that codependency is learned - and as such, it can be unlearned.
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Here is a codependency enabler checklist: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357673.0

If the section above describes your relationship, it's time to rethink your approach.

codependency is not a person who is simply guilty of loving too much. codependency is a hidden agenda - often hidden/unknown to the codependent themselves.

as we age, and learn to navigate the world, adapt to lifes stressors, we develop coping mechanisms (our earliest relationships can speak to this), and sometimes, later in adulthood, those coping mechanisms stop serving us, or even hurt us, or keep us stuck. when that happens, each time we bump up against them, it presents an opportunity, if we take it, to develop new, healthy coping mechanisms, and gravitate toward a healthier model. the insidious thing about codependency, and those old coping mechanisms, is the tendency/reflex to blame others for ones own dysfunction, rather than see it in oneself.

its also important to understand that codependency is a spectrum, ranging in severity. most of us fit more in the tendencies/traits category than the severe/pathological (this is likewise true for most of our exes as well). typically, it wont be as obvious, or show up in all aspects of our life; its going to be most pronounced in our closest intimate relationships. the tendency you describe in your romantic relationships is a hallmark.

if youre still with me, i want you to think back on these relationships, and what drew you to them initially. how did these partners and your chemistry with them make you feel? special? important? needed? competent? confident? alive? look past the obvious - good looks, niceties - what was the primal draw, in spite of the warning signs (or on some level, was it the warning signs themselves?). what was missing - what need was unfulfilled - that these partners filled for you?

dig deep. when you find it, you cant unsee it.