We broke up she moved out, but still wants to be on a break rather than breakup

[stevemcduck]

Hi Guys

I met this wonderful girl 5 years ago, 1 year long distance relationship and 4 years living together. i was 38 she was 20 when we met. for 4 years straight everything was perfect, soul mate stuff, electrifying sex, intense bonding and loving caring affection. in the last year of our relationship she seemed distant, I was struggling with work and she I believe was struggling with body dysmorphia. I caught her lying about something (not cheating) and confronted her, she broke up with me as she said one day I will abandon her for it. after 1 week we got back together but when I came back she was acting different and more distant than ever. when I confronted about this she said I was being sensitive and basically gaslighting me. we broke up again. she was living in my house and I let her stay there for a few weeks until she found somewhere else. I went round during this time to collect a package and I went in to see her but he said she didn't want to talk and felt uncomfortable around me, I asked why and I couldn't understand at the time. it was really heartbreaking. she left and now live 7 hours car ride away from me. she said he wants to tay in touch and we are only on a break. we texted every day for about a month but she was cold and inconsistent with her responses. however each time ive asked her if she wants to stop contact she has said no we can still talk. we also facetime sometimes and seems upset I painted room rooms in the house as she said she may come back. she seems to want to be with me from a distance but no longer says nice things, initiates contact or makes me feel valued or wanted. I went to visit her and stayed in a hotel which she told me in advance she didn't want to stay with me overnight. we went for dinner and all seemed ok until I said I was sad living in our home without her, she started crying and just said she wanted to go home and left. I was sad as id made such an effort to see her and she just ran on me during dinner. we are still talking on text if it didn't happen and may meet today, im in the hotel right now. I don't know what to do I feel in limbo and we are so far apart. I love her so much and I want her back but im not sure how to react or say the right thing to get her back fully. she seems to not like me anymore yet doesn't want me to go. I love her deeply and unconditionally, however I am so depressed, confused, and im starting to have panic attacked when I try to sleep and I can focus on anything, im in therapy, my therapist told me its most likely bpd that she has (he is an expert in bpd partner breakup recovery)  but she doesn't know it either I don't think and she seems reluctant to get therapy. I have researched a lot about bpd and she does show an alarming amount of the traits. can anyone offer any advice of how to navigate this

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[losthope1234]

Hi,

Your story is very similar to a situation i went through. Back then he was my bf (now we are married) and it was pretty long term by then, 7years i think. Things triggered when i went to another state for higher education. He didn't oppose it outright ( and i didn't have any clue about BPD and abandonment issues) but he started to behave exactly like you are describing - distant, yet refusing to give up when asked.  This was followed by whirlwind of incidents, he cheated on me, dumped me, i tried and tried to fix everything, my mental health damaged, finally stopped, he came back blah blah.

Back then i didn't at all handle the situation properly. But now, looking back, i know what I should do differently.

The whole thing started off because he felt abandoned when i went to another state. For your case, i think her extreme abandonment kicked in when you caught her cheating.

1stly, the fact that i continued to send him texts regularly, had given him the assurance that i am still there and he can return whenever he wants. With this assurance, he tried to look for other options, such that if this fails, he has that, thinking that either way, he doesn't have to be abandoned. I don't think this is okay - to leave someone hanging like this. Since you have a good therapist, you can work with him and define a good boundary as to what your expectations are out of this relationship and what exactly she wants. At this point i am sure she is also confused, not totally willing to let u go because then she will be lonely, and not sure of you totally so she might be keeping her options open. But she has to decide. Work on a boundary with your therapist and try to assert it. She either has to be in the relationship, for that she has to do so and so, or even if she is rethinking and needs, say, one month off, even that has to be clearly defined. If she wants to continue, she has to come out clear as to what is bothering her, is there anyy  change she is looking for in the relationship? if that is reasonable, that can be accommodated. what are your needs? assert those.

[stevemcduck]

thank you so much for your reply. she didn't actually cheat just broke a major boundary. we actually had a great day the following day and she gave me a kiss and cuddle before I loft and said she was glad I visited, we seem to be talking a lot better now via text Ince I got home and she did indicate she would like to see me again, may I ask a question, seen as you had success and got married to your partner, are you confident for the future and do you feel safe in the relationship or do you constantly worry that this will all happen again?

[losthope1234]

i'm really sorry for the mistake..actually when i read your post, i was shaken badly because it brought back very difficult memories from my past..it was 2015, still one of the worst years of my life till date..anyways I'm glad that you guys are moving more towards normalcy.

Just a heads up..during my time, the whole episode went on for about 2.5yrs before a final solution. In these 2.5yrs, sometimes in between he suddenly used to behave like everything was okay and for few days he behaved very lovingly and "normally" as if we were exactly like before. Then again he used to become distant without any reason, and again avoided me, became cold, keeping me confused and hurt. So try to be careful and make sure that things are really okay.

I read through your original post once again. I think you should give a lot of importance to address whatever this is: "I caught her lying about something (not cheating) and confronted her, she broke up with me as she said one day I will abandon her for it". This implies that there is a certain issue/s which she is conscious about and which makes her feel she is not good enough for you and you are going to "leave" her for this. BPD people are very sensitive about abandonment as you already know. Can there be more than one issue which makes her feel she is not worthy of you??..she may never have "said" anything, but do you feel there can be?...Maybe it is totally illogical to you but still?? anything like say, you have a much bigger career prospects than her, maybe your job can take you to another place, maybe your "looks" or "body" is much better according to her(since you mentioned her body dysmorphia) ..anything like that?

This is what she has been struggling with last few months and she is thinking in her mind that you are gonna abandon her for these reasons someday, so she is staying away thinking that its better for her to part ways than wait for that day when you leave her (totally irrational scenario but very much real to her). You really need to address this now otherwise even if you are okay now, things will again flip out of nowhere. For me, this was because i was a bright student and he feared that i would move abroad for higher studies leaving him and ultimately leave him for someone else. This is totally irrational because I have always loved him like crazy and unconditionally.

As for your question, I don't think that kind of certainty is ever possible in a relationship with BPD, especially if the BPD person is not seeking any counseling. My husband too doesn't wanna go for therapy. So i still fear that things can turn upside down any moment. However, it's still somewhat better over the years. This came from me learning about BPD, applying the techniques(somewhat) useful for BPD and also adjusting a lot regarding his "fears" about my career. I have somewhat compromised my career so as to stay with him and not go long distance. Since you have a good therapist, your situation can be improved much more. In my country there's no such option, even though I tried i lot to find help, i couldn't, so i am completely alone in this fight.

My best wishes to you.

[stevemcduck]

hi and thank you so so much for your reply, im a bit depressed and keep checking the boards for responses as im so in need of help. sorry it brought up hard memories for you.

im in a lot of pain now. we seem to have made progress but im getting there bare minimum now. she doesn't even give me a good morning or goodnight text anymore. she seems hyper fixated on her job and I feel like an afterthought. it feels like emotional abuse. she does at time seem engaged but not often, she still says she loves me if I say it first.

She is getting a breast surgery soon and im hoping that she will change her attitude once that is done, she is set conscious of the shape.

she is defo not worried that I am better looking than her or anything like that she is supermodel hot.I do have a much more stable family and a way better career buts the career is normal as im a lot older. I keep thinking I should break things off as I feel devalued and disrespected and its hurting me but I can't let go I love her so much. I feel like everything thing is one sided and I actually feel like an annoyance to her but every time I suggest lowering contact she seems to get upset and say that she wants to continue.

any further advice?

[losthope1234]

Hi, i really do understand what you are going through. I have been through the same a number of times, most prolonged being that which i talked about. I am a very emotional person so everything hit be hard. The panic was soo intense, i couldn't sleep and I literally cried from morning till night. I even used to feel same as this line too which you said " I actually feel like an annoyance to her" every time I texted him. I feel very sorry to hear you going through such difficult time. Things will heal.

From your post I feel that there's some gap. You said these:

"She is getting a breast surgery soon and im hoping that she will change her attitude once that is done, she is set conscious of the shape.

she is defo not worried that I am better looking than her or anything like that she is supermodel hot."

She maybe hot in your eyes, but she definitely feels inadequate herself which is why she is getting the surgery. You have to try to understand what maybe leading her to feel that you will abandon her. What she is thinking in her mind is very very different from what you actually feel. That's always the case with BPD. You said "she said one day I will abandon her for it" in you original post. This "it" is a very huge issue for her.

As for advice, I can share what I did back then. I saw a doctor and started a small dose of SSRI. That gave me a basic peace and a basic relief from the overwhelming  anxiety. Otherwise it was very difficult for me to take any sane step over my situation. When I had some basic relief, I took a stand and stopped messaging him completely. (Obviously, I had already texted him many many times before this saying that i cant take it anymore, please let's be together, i am going to wait one more month,this is the deadline and so and so.) But this time i completely stopped. He was very used to getting periodic msgs from me every 15 days thus being assured that i am always available. When i completely stopped, i think it gave him the jolt needed. Then he came back. But this time I had read two books on BPD and especially focused on the coping strategies. Mainly Randi Kreger's 1st book. When he called back I started to show change within me and set one or two strong boundaries. He was failing initially, but i kept asserting repeatedly. Things were better. Also, from the books, i had clearer idea about "how his mind sees things". In Randi's book, there are several examples where she shows what you say and what they understand instead. Those really helped.

It's very crucial to look after yourself 1st, only then you will have the energy required to look after the relationship. Please take good care of your mental health. I suggest you read the book too if you haven't. 1st step is to match whether the traits are of BPD. But the next step is much more crucial -- how to take your life back. I feel you have done the 1st part, but the 2nd part still needs more work. Even i am still working on the 2nd part, i too am in no way perfect and am still struggling with it.

[stevemcduck]

basically what she did was sell pictures of herself online and I caught her. she was worried as she was struggling to find a job at the time but I told her I would financially support her any way and I was doing that. I was furious when I found out, I found pictures and thought she was sending them to another guy but then she said she was selling them. I was revived she want cheating but it hit me hard when that's what I initially thought

ive read, stop walking on eggshells.and im reading one of the spin off books now.

she has said she wants to visit me for a week after she has recovered from her surgery so that is good im just struggling with her coldness towards me currently and the fact hat she doesn't see me as a priority. im worried incase she doesnt mean what she says she just doesn't want to break things off with me so she doesn't have to feel bad for it.

I really hope I can fix this, she means the world to me and I feel lost

[stevemcduck]

how can I make her realise I would never abandon her? is that even possible. I mean right now im in a long distance relationship, been told not to expect physical intimacy for a long time and getting very low energy, she has even stopped calling me pet names she used to. and im still here for her, I don't know how much more I can prove my dedication

[losthope1234]

No no, you are getting this in a wrong sense.  Fear of abandonment is the core of BPD. You can never 'fix' it. You can't ever 'prove' it sufficiently and it is NEVER your fault that she has this.

I think reading the book  'Stop walking on eggshells' will give you a lot of mental peace. It has really done that to me over and again. I re read it every time i start to feel anxious and threatened.. I think you can get it online too.

[stevemcduck]

ok I understand. I think im just in a huge mess, I just want to have her back in my life and to look after her, im so broken

[losthope1234]

i do understand that you are going through a rough time.. be kind to yourself.. sending you virtual hugs.. time is gonna heal you..

[losthope1234]

basically what she did was sell pictures of herself online and I caught her. she was worried as she was struggling to find a job at the time but I told her I would financially support her any way and I was doing that. I was furious when I found out, I found pictures and thought she was sending them to another guy but then she said she was selling them. I was revived she want cheating but it hit me hard when that's what I initially thought

ive read, stop walking on eggshells.and im reading one of the spin off books now.

she has said she wants to visit me for a week after she has recovered from her surgery so that is good im just struggling with her coldness towards me currently and the fact hat she doesn't see me as a priority. im worried incase she doesnt mean what she says she just doesn't want to break things off with me so she doesn't have to feel bad for it.

I really hope I can fix this, she means the world to me and I feel lost

i'm sorry, i actually missed this post. I was actually traveling back from work. It's great to hear that you've already read the book and you are further reading the spin offs. We can't really 'change their minds or behavior' but we can learn the coping strategies to deal with them. From what I have understood, we really need to learn to disentangle our emotional responses from their BPD behavior. It's good that she said she is gonna stay with you after the surgery. In the meantime, can you bring about some change in the way you are communicating?? I am assuming that you are still giving warm replies while she is not reciprocating?? could you bring some change to this equation, so that she understands that you are not as okay as you seem to be??

Also, sometimes we need to read these books over and again to actually absorb it. It one thing to know, it's different to actually imbibe it. Also, could your therapist help you dealing with codependency issues?

[stevemcduck]

yes I have been giving mostly warm replies, she has said it is her intention to work towards us living together, im looking to move home and I said what does she think about the new place I have in mind and asked if she still intended to work toward living together, therm she was silent.

I then said after hours of no response

me - It makes me feel sad to be left hanging on a important question like that, I have feelings too. Xx

her - I’m sorry but I’m still working and I’m a little more preoccupied than expected, you can’t say things like that to make me feel bad x

me - I see, i understand you might think I was trying to make you feel bad but I was just expressing my needs a little. I just wanted to make sure you are I. The same mindset as me with our future goals, this is all very confusing to me and I’m just trying to understand xx

she seemed to be more responsive and positive after that so I am trying to highlight where possible my concerns and needs. do you think im doing the right thing?

[losthope1234]

"me - I see, i understand you might think I was trying to make you feel bad but I was just expressing my needs a little. I just wanted to make sure you are I. The same mindset as me with our future goals, this is all very confusing to me and I’m just trying to understand"

Yes this seems to be quite assertive. Keep this kind of assertive, yet kind, tone.. if u r always saying good morning nd good night and she is never reciprocating, it's better to dial it down. Try to keep asserting the fact that you are awaiting her moving in with you again and then have a serious conversation about the fate of this relationship. No need to be 'forceful' but just assert in a kind way.

In the meantime, you should have some plans in mind as to how you guys will move forward if she moves in and decides to continue. This is very important. This is what i did when my bf came back. Take help of your therapist too. Try to figure out what her triggers are regarding abandonment. Abandonment fears are core of BPD. Talk to your therapist and work with him to figure this out. From your posts, I felt that you aren't so aware of this in her.

Also, you should ask yourself about some bigger picture questions. Having a relationship with BPD will mean constant struggles, especially emotionally. A sustained effort will always be required. Are you ready for these in the future?

[stevemcduck]

thanks for all the responses you are really helping me.

Ok I will try to be assertive and kind. she seems to avoid any form of serious conversation about the relationship. when we went out to dinner and I tried to talk about our relationship status she started crying and wanted to leave so we were only together an hour on that night out, she said on a text once I got home that I was being too pushy, but in my mind I wasn't at all. when I was walking her to the taxi she said she was embarrassed. also she said "I just go through these cycles"

we have not agreed to move in just yet, we have agreed that after she has healed from her surgery she will visit and stay here for one week. im not sure if I should offer to stay in another room or not as she seems to be against closeness for some reason. she dug and kiss me when I left the visit however and held my hand in the car. I think the abandonment fear is now to do with this whole situation. she is in daily contact and we FaceTime and play a mobile game while we talk but a lot of her texts are business like and not completely different to what she was like before. I feels like talking to a different person

im aware there is difficulty in the future but im prepared to try one more time, im aware of the risks, do you think I should just go along with her rhythm or try to push for more?

[losthope1234]

"she seems to avoid any form of serious conversation about the relationship."

I totally get this. That's a problem I have too. My husband also have always avoided any serious discussion that might lead to the improvement of the relationship.

Thing is that, in your words and action during this time, till she moves in, should be different than usual, such that it forms a non-verbal way of communicating to her that things are not normal, and we need to make some changes(small changes) if we are to move forward. Asserting this should be both, in verbal as well as non verbal way. But NOT RUDE. Also should not sound overwhelming to her. To balance this, ie, to be assertive, yet not rude, requires some effort, it's not so easy i know. But if you think in your mind and then apply, this can be done. That's why i said, if she is non responding to good mornings, dail it down. That's another non verbal way of showing you are hurt. In this way, build up a equation during this time where you are still very loving, yet sort of firm where you give her a sense that she has to keep her words and move in after surgery and then gently and slowly, with lots of love and kindness, you guys together will discuss and work on bettering this relationship. Mind you, give her the assurance that this isn't any kind of threat. It's for both, so that both of you are happier. Even her needs are to be looked after, its not just you putting loads of demands onto her. They need lots of assurances too, so that they feel safe and not repulsed. Otherwise it's possible that they sense trouble and flee.

At this point, since she has already said that she will move in, no need to be more 'pushy'.. she has given a time line, so that's good. Just periodically assert her to stick to it,in ways i described above.

I understand you feel that she is different person when she texts. This is very very typical, we all face this, i have repeated faced this. When i was younger and didn't know about BPD sometimes i used to feel it's his hypothetical brother i am talking to  like they show in the movies sometimes. :D It's actually part of their 'splitting'. Now that we have aged, i sometimes joke to him and say 'ribie tomaye chena jaina raag holey' when things are normal. Means 'dear, i cant recognise you when you are angry'. This is my way of holding a mirror to him.

I am glad i could help you atleast a bit. Best wishes to you.

[stevemcduck]

Thanks for you continued support on this situation I'm dealing with.

Just to be clear, she has said she will visit for one week after the surgery, not move back for good.

however we did have a FaceTime last night and id say it was the best communication we had since the breakup, albeit following the worst day of text communication. we were talking about mail that was coming here from her bank and I asked if she had she changed her address, she said" what's the point if I'm coming back", so that was a very positive sign.at the end of the call she started saying I love you but stopped herself. she always responds if I say it first but the never initiates. do you think she is testing me? also in your opinion do you think I should keep saying it first or dial that back also?

yes she is very different, for example when we were together she would say "hey handsome, how's your day going?, I love and miss you lots (loads of love emojis)xxxxx" now I get "how is your day going xx"

do you think if were to get back together properly and live together she would go back to the way she was or do you think she would see me in this new light forever now? and do you think she is just testing me or genuinely doesn't feel for me the way she did?

you are helping me a great deal, not just a little bit, I really appreciate it.

[losthope1234]

Thank you, it feels good to be acknowledged and appreciated.

"Just to be clear, she has said she will visit for one week after the surgery, not move back for good."

Yes, by "timeline" I mean a specific day as to when she would move in. If she would have said "maybe in future", that's very ambiguous, we don't know how long to wait and whether at all we should wait. Bdw, has she scheduled her surgery yet?

"however we did have a FaceTime last night and id say it was the best communication we had since the breakup, albeit following the worst day of text communication."

In this context, i would like to point something. Text msgs may not be the best way of communication for BPD people. I have managed several initial years of my relationship over text msgs but came to realization much later on that I shouldn't have done that. The tone in text msgs are difficult to relay, even though you might have your own ways, using emojis and stickers, etc. Still, BPD people are very sensitive and there are chances that she mis-reads your intentions. So be careful.

"at the end of the call she started saying I love you but stopped herself.she always responds if I say it first but the never initiates. do you think she is testing me? also in your opinion do you think I should keep saying it first or dial that back also?"

No, don't stop saying i love you. This would be too much change for her to handle. The change you can bring here is, you say very sweetly and in a sad and touching tone to her one day, ''you dont say i love you anymore, only reply when i say, dont you love me like before?" Dont be rude or demanding in any way, as if just requesting. Apply this on a good day, when her mood is very good, like last day when she was almost about to say "i love you" but held back. This will depict a change in your part and will also communicate your needs. On the other hand, stopping to say good morning/night would be better when you had some argument earlier. This will communicate that you are also very hurt at whatever happened. These equations are kinda subtle, but you'll get the hang of it. Also, don't go blindly by whatever i suggest, because every relationship is different and you may need to modify things according to your situation. I am basing these mostly what I would do if it was my husband. But subtle things like tone,mood,language -all these things are very particular to the relationship. The core tools however remains the same, which are described in the books. Assertive way of talking, verbal and non verbal ways of putting and guarding boundaries, etc.

"do you think if were to get back together properly and live together she would go back to the way she was or do you think she would see me in this new light forever now? and do you think she is just testing me or genuinely doesn't feel for me the way she did?"

This "new light" is her splitting so now she is seeing you as not-so-good. When that is reversed, she'll again treat you like angel. If you can restore this properly and assuming she also has decided that she'll continue with this relationship, then you can have a fulfilling life. However,  BPD challenges, like her splitting, anger, emotional dysregulations --these will never go, intensity might decrease with age. So this means, now when she goes back to 'normal' she WILL BE extremely kind and nice just like before. But in the near future, she might again split and this pattern will continue. However, it may not be as bad as this episode, if you learn and apply the coping strategies properly. However, "restore this properly" is a huge thing. Also, what she has in mind about future is not in your hand. Best is to try and do whatever you can do on your part and leave the rest to time and hope for the best.

[stevemcduck]

You are incredibly acknowledged and appreciated. I love to see you have replied its helping me a LOT.

"Just to be clear, she has said she will visit for one week after the surgery, not move back for good."

I don't have a specific day, she describes it as working towards coming back. Yes her surgery is the week after next, and then a month recovery so it may be a long time until she has the week visit.

yes I will try to limit text interactions and relay more of the calls an FaceTiming.

I chose not to say good morning today and she initiated the contact at about 11am, which is a new first, so I was pleased about that,

I mentioned to her on the FaceTime last night that I need a vacation and said would she like to go and she seemed very enthusiastic about it so I do think things are going in the right direction.

[losthope1234]

I am so glad to hear that you are able to make progress. Keep up the work. i'll be around, i just had a big argument with my husband an hour ago nd he's moving out so i'm still crying and processing. I was also going thru some issues, i posted in few days bkk.. i'll check back here agn after two three days after i process my emotions a bit..

[stevemcduck]

ohh no, im sos so sorry to hear that, look just forget about me and deal with your won issues, if there is anything at all I can do or you just need someone to talk to please get in touch, you have helped me a lot and I am here if you need any help in return, I hope you get sorted, im wishing you the best