Third break up in our 6 year relationship, this time it feels very different

[RedBeard93]

Hello all,

My ex fiance 28f broke up with me 32m about a month ago and we're still living together.

Our relationship is very complicated and she has a complex mental and physical health history and we'd gone through a load of ups and downs. But throughout it all and I know it sounds cliche but I never doubted she was my soulmate and we'd spend the rest of our lives together.

She was diagnosed with BPD in her teens and heavily medicated for most of her life up to around 25/26. She's been in and out of therapy and made so many leaps and bounds by herself which I'm so proud of her for. She's never felt that BPD sits right with her fully and she's recently got a diagnosis of ADHD which in her head almost overwrites the BPD, however I don't think this is the case and there's elements of her personality and behavior that comes from both.

For the 6 years we've been together I've been there for her through some of the toughest times and always said id be the stable person in her life. She however seems to have the belief that people don't care about her or her needs and people constantly do what they think is best for her and not necessarily what she wants etc.

The first time she left the relationship we ended up breaking up for about two weeks and then got back together. In that time she had some parties but not much else.

The second time was a lot more chaotic. I found out she'd been cheating on me and and her behavior became more and more erratic where I was worried for her safety. We split up for just over a month, got back together and then broke up again until she wrote me a letter on Christmas day saying she was sorry for every doubting us and I was everything she wanted.

Fast forward 3 years and she's decided to break up with me again. It's been about a month but this time it seems different. She's not drinking, she's managing to eat, go to work , sleeping regularly etc and it really does seem like shes thinking this all through and I'm proud of her. However I'm really struggling with it and the thought of us not being together when we felt that strongly about each other is a difficult one to process

She ended things and said she'd been thinking about it for a while. She's said it's purely for selfish reasons and that she hasn't fallen out of love with me and that's why it's been such a tough decision to come to. She feels like every year she has some kind of mental health crisis and she needs to not be in a relationship or have any responsibilities to or for anyone and that's what she needs. So she can make mistakes and not have to try and put in place tons of steps to prevent me or others with decisions she makes.

She said she's sat and weighed up all the good points of our relationship and this feeling that she needs to be alone and even though she knows she would be happy with me this other feeling is outweighing everything. We've had a few chats about things and she says that she wishes she could put our heads together to make me understand that it's absolutely nothing to do with me or us. She also feels I want chats all the time and she has nothing more to bring to them right now and get agitated to the point where she angrily says "PLEASE READ it let's stay together then" or that she just wants to kill herself rather than deal with all this.

I'm just struggling to be in the same house as her. Apart from things like watching TV, eating / sleeping together and kissing each other goodbye in the mornings our interactions are almost normal. We talk, we joke, we laugh. She's out of the house most of the day which makes it seem like shes just busy and I'll see her later. I'm just really struggling to accept that it's over and it all just feels wrong. Even her goodbye to me when she's off out feels rushed and cold and it's tough to be around that.

She has nowhere to go and can't move back into her parents yet as it's not suitable for her right now and needs some adjustments but there's no timeframe on that. Shes said she wants me in her life and wants us to have a friendship but I really don't think I can do that even though I'd want to. There's been no further mention of moving out timelines and today when I asked for a catch up soon and questioned why she's sounding a bit more off than usual she mentioned that she's not sure where I'm at with everything as per our last conversation she thought I was okay for being friends. It seems a bit wild to me that one conversation could just solve everything in her opinion even though we said we'd need multiple chats to flesh out what that would look like / what we'd both get from it without getting hurt.

She's even suggested there could be a time where shes down living at her parents (5 min walk away) and she comes round and we have nights together as friends watching TV or doing things together maybe once a week and we scale them visits up or down depending on how they're making us feel. But to me it makes it seem like she wants absolutely everything and I'll just be there always wanting a relationship with her.

I'm not really sure what I'm after posting this to be honest. Maybe people to rant to, maybe some advice. I've just never had a relationship where despite everything we've gone through I've never doubted my love for her. I'm just struggling so much day to day at the moment.

Any advice would be appreciated. I am still hopeful that one day things will work out.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[stevemcduck]

im so sorry to hear you are going through this. I know how you feel the confusion can be awful and really take a mental toll on the partner. I have just come out of relationship with someone who has uBPD. It hurts like hell. I want mine back and seem to be having somewhat success by allowing the time but remaining close there as a friend as there is a chance she will want me back. however the risk you take is that if she starts seeing someone else you will have to watch that happen and she will still expect to be friends. that won't work as you are not really there for friendship.

As confusing as it is, she has been quite open about what she needs and why she is breaking it off, you just can't understand the turmoil in her head, no one can. I know it doesn't feel this way now but she will be telling the truth that it int you so you can be assured you are not at fault. It really is heartbreaking and feels so tragic. its probably best to move on or try the friendship in hope she come back around but like all of us partners of pwBPD you have to accept the risks and know it will lead to more heartbreak and mental turmoil. Im saying this as it's so logical however as I write it and im in a similar situation I can't even take my own advice.

you are not alone, I really feel for you brother

[SinisterComplex]

Hello all,

My ex fiance 28f broke up with me 32m about a month ago and we're still living together.

Our relationship is very complicated and she has a complex mental and physical health history and we'd gone through a load of ups and downs. But throughout it all and I know it sounds cliche but I never doubted she was my soulmate and we'd spend the rest of our lives together.

She was diagnosed with BPD in her teens and heavily medicated for most of her life up to around 25/26. She's been in and out of therapy and made so many leaps and bounds by herself which I'm so proud of her for. She's never felt that BPD sits right with her fully and she's recently got a diagnosis of ADHD which in her head almost overwrites the BPD, however I don't think this is the case and there's elements of her personality and behavior that comes from both.

For the 6 years we've been together I've been there for her through some of the toughest times and always said id be the stable person in her life. She however seems to have the belief that people don't care about her or her needs and people constantly do what they think is best for her and not necessarily what she wants etc.

The first time she left the relationship we ended up breaking up for about two weeks and then got back together. In that time she had some parties but not much else.

The second time was a lot more chaotic. I found out she'd been cheating on me and and her behavior became more and more erratic where I was worried for her safety. We split up for just over a month, got back together and then broke up again until she wrote me a letter on Christmas day saying she was sorry for every doubting us and I was everything she wanted.

Fast forward 3 years and she's decided to break up with me again. It's been about a month but this time it seems different. She's not drinking, she's managing to eat, go to work , sleeping regularly etc and it really does seem like shes thinking this all through and I'm proud of her. However I'm really struggling with it and the thought of us not being together when we felt that strongly about each other is a difficult one to process

She ended things and said she'd been thinking about it for a while. She's said it's purely for selfish reasons and that she hasn't fallen out of love with me and that's why it's been such a tough decision to come to. She feels like every year she has some kind of mental health crisis and she needs to not be in a relationship or have any responsibilities to or for anyone and that's what she needs. So she can make mistakes and not have to try and put in place tons of steps to prevent me or others with decisions she makes.

She said she's sat and weighed up all the good points of our relationship and this feeling that she needs to be alone and even though she knows she would be happy with me this other feeling is outweighing everything. We've had a few chats about things and she says that she wishes she could put our heads together to make me understand that it's absolutely nothing to do with me or us. She also feels I want chats all the time and she has nothing more to bring to them right now and get agitated to the point where she angrily says "PLEASE READ it let's stay together then" or that she just wants to kill herself rather than deal with all this.

I'm just struggling to be in the same house as her. Apart from things like watching TV, eating / sleeping together and kissing each other goodbye in the mornings our interactions are almost normal. We talk, we joke, we laugh. She's out of the house most of the day which makes it seem like shes just busy and I'll see her later. I'm just really struggling to accept that it's over and it all just feels wrong. Even her goodbye to me when she's off out feels rushed and cold and it's tough to be around that.

She has nowhere to go and can't move back into her parents yet as it's not suitable for her right now and needs some adjustments but there's no timeframe on that. Shes said she wants me in her life and wants us to have a friendship but I really don't think I can do that even though I'd want to. There's been no further mention of moving out timelines and today when I asked for a catch up soon and questioned why she's sounding a bit more off than usual she mentioned that she's not sure where I'm at with everything as per our last conversation she thought I was okay for being friends. It seems a bit wild to me that one conversation could just solve everything in her opinion even though we said we'd need multiple chats to flesh out what that would look like / what we'd both get from it without getting hurt.

She's even suggested there could be a time where shes down living at her parents (5 min walk away) and she comes round and we have nights together as friends watching TV or doing things together maybe once a week and we scale them visits up or down depending on how they're making us feel. But to me it makes it seem like she wants absolutely everything and I'll just be there always wanting a relationship with her.

I'm not really sure what I'm after posting this to be honest. Maybe people to rant to, maybe some advice. I've just never had a relationship where despite everything we've gone through I've never doubted my love for her. I'm just struggling so much day to day at the moment.

Any advice would be appreciated. I am still hopeful that one day things will work out.

So instead of providing some grand advice and so forth I will just respond by saying the reason you posted what you did is that what to connect with others who may have similar experiences and can be more understanding than the typical friends and family who do not really get it. My friend you just want some support...simple as that. This is just another resource to help you on your journey and perhaps this resource helps you figure some S out. It doesn't have to be anything more than that. Just know that we do get it here and we do understand and we do have your back.

Vent away. Ask as many questions as you need to and share as much as you want and comfortable with.

In the meantime please be kind to you and please take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[losthope1234]

Hi

I understand what you are going through. She's living with you, just like she would when you were romantically together, yet having to accept that you are "broken up" so you are not really together in that sense...It must be really hard for you.

Reading your post,it feels like you have always been a huge firm support to her all through her mental health challenges. At this point too, you have accepted to live with her even though she broke up because she moving back to parents is not suitable. She is "cool" being broken up because she doesn't want the "burden of relationship" at this point, and doesn't even what to chat about it without taking into consideration how that might be affecting you on the inside. Do you feel that you maybe have accepted and allowed a bit too much? I feel this because I am also the same kind, always accepting his "wishes", always being the 1st one to "rescue" him through his mental health or any other crisis. He doesn't get along with parents, i am there to support, next moment his parents are fine, i am to be blamed, that's also okay, i accept.

I am also trying to navigate and obviously i'm not any expert, but I think at times we enable a bit too much. And that gives them a msg that everything they are doing is somehow allowed and to be adjusted by us. If I were you, I would find a way such that we do not have to stay together since we broke up. Even though it might seem heart-breaking on your part, you need to gather courage to be firm because this way you send out a msg that you are not okay in this current dynamics, a dynamics where you guys are just friends and can casually watch shows with her like before without being romantically linked -- you are not okay with this, even though she might be. I have been together with him now for 18yrs, and I know this attitude that they sometimes put in --that we normally stay together without him having to take any responsibility for the relationship -- thus pushing me to handle all the responsibility of the relationship all by myself.

If she can't move out, is it possible for you to stay temporarily at some other place? Your msg to her should be clear. That we will stay apart until we have a serious chat about the future of this relationship. If she wants to pause the relationship and take a break, then how long should you wait? Let's say a month (or two*), but then she has to be the one who approaches you. If she doesn't then you will move on since you can wait in uncertainty forever. Let her take up some responsibility for the relationship.

*Note that stay away for longer times might create other challenges so be careful

[RedBeard93]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all the support and advice.

She's actually been really friendly and thoughtful which is a stark difference to last time.

She's bringing in less money because she on a phased return to work and she's actively said that she'll give me some money towards things this month as she appreciates I'm taking on most of the financial burden.

Shes still had issues with work and the other morning she was really short with me when I asked if she'd slept in.

Later when she came home she'd noticed I'd got in her favourite soft drink (this is just a habit I keep the house stocked up) and she apologized for being short and almost like an "unwanted child" walking around the house not contributing. She said that the reason she was late to work was because she was deciding "whether to call in sick, go in and face the music for being late, or shooting herself" which I know she was joking but she's obviously struggling with things. I did really appreciate the validation coming from her and said that's she's definitely wanted.

The next day (Thursday just gone) she asked if a friend could stay over on Friday (today) after a post birthday present evening out that had been booked before we broke up. She offered to drive them home instead if it wasn't okay which is something she wouldn't have usually done when this happened last time round.

I asked if we could have a chat again soon and although she's busy this weekend she offered to chat this Sunday and that we could cook a roast dinner as well which I've agreed to.

I'm not really sure what I want from this chat. My feelings haven't changed but I know her being here is stopping me from processing things as hope is constantly there for me at least.

I went out tonight on my own (Friday) to a gig. It wasn't what I expected and it was full of couples and so I left and I'm currently on the train home struggling with my emotions. I miss her being the person I contact, I miss her being my partner for so many reasons.

I am proud of her for doing what she feels she needs to do but my God I feel completely lost. I'm know 32 is young but after going from what I thought was my family for the rest of my life to this it's just hard to process.

[once removed]

aw, man. ugh.

its like you miss her, and yet you live with her - youre kinda surrounded by what you miss  

and having to feel the way you feel, while shes seemingly carrying on, it can kinda feel like shes a walking invalidation of what youre going through.

thats one of the hardest parts about breaking up in general. the other person seems that way, because, at least in part, they have grieved the relationship. its like being on two completely different pages.

ive got a buddy going through similar; his wife isnt bpd, but likely uADHD, shes going through some stuff, theyre considering divorce, but shes not really sure what she wants. its hard on him.

which is why, keeping your goals in mind, of getting back together, i tend to agree with losthope1234, that its okay to show some real signs of commitment to breaking up, if not for your own well being and processing.

because how do you get someone back (assuming the opportunity is available), anyway? in so many words, you re-attract them.

to someone who seems like shes "going through some stuff", the most attractive thing, really, is to have your   together. to be rock solid. and to have clear and firm boundaries. note: i dont mean dont grieve. do grieve. but also, work to stay centered, in a hard, bad all around, situation.

incidentally, its also the best way to approach a breakup: by living it.

practically speaking (in terms of actual steps taken), im not necessarily sure what that looks like, but it more or less looks like this:

I went out tonight on my own (Friday) to a gig. It wasn't what I expected and it was full of couples and so I left and I'm currently on the train home struggling with my emotions.

its both a win that you went, and its a win that you said hey, this is too much, and gave yourself a break from it. i remember the first gig i played, very shortly after the breakup. she was our biggest fan, and it was surreal not having her there.

take the steps necessary to signal to both her, and to yourself, that you "accept" the breakup, or more importantly, the reality of it. thats what good boundaries look like: living our values. value your grief, your peace, and your well being. let that guide your actions, broadly.

i dont mean making a show or being in her face about it. thats not a mature way to cope with a breakup, or to re-attract someone.

She's even suggested there could be a time where shes down living at her parents (5 min walk away) and she comes round and we have nights together as friends watching TV or doing things together maybe once a week and we scale them visits up or down depending on how they're making us feel. But to me it makes it seem like she wants absolutely everything and I'll just be there always wanting a relationship with her.

people who say these things, though she isnt the first (she truly sounds a lot like my buddys wife with this stuff) baffle me. but i think they say them to cope with feelings of loss, yes, but also chaos. it is self-soothing, but it is also selfish.

dont enable that. thats the best path forward (whichever direction you want this to go), the one you have control over, and it is also the most attractive move.

[EyesUp]

@RedBeard,

I went through these cycles, too. There were multiple breakups. Eventually got married. 

In my case, the cycles continued. 14 years and 3 kids later, divorced.

Looking back, nothing felt better than getting back together. The return to the familiar - it felt like safety at the time. Make up sex was generally A+. We joked once or twice that we'd break up just so that we could have make up sex...  Eventually, though, we cohabitated for almost a year leading up to separation and divorce. On some level, I understand the feeling of loss and disappointment that you must be going through, especially while cohabitating.

My suggestions are:

1) Boundaries
No matter which way things go for you, there's no upside to over-accommodating her at this point. If you don't want her to host while you're still cohab'ing, say so.  In short, it's time for boundaries, i.e., in order for this to work, she needs to demonstrate a, b, c (you need to define your own boundaries) - and then you stick to it

2) Give her space
Offers and requests to talk / check in are validation for her - you're still interested. But you already know you're still interested. The question is: Is she interested? Give her space to demonstrate this to you authentically, independently, and in a way that she can take full credit for. If she's not meeting you fully half way, give this full attention

3) Gut check
Do you want a relationship with mutual trust and commitment? What does that look like for you? How do you establish - or re-establish this? Will she value your love and forgiveness, or get stuck in some difficult-to-process shame? What does success look like for you, for her, and can you get there?

The reference to FOG is a good one - You might also read up on attachment styles. Here's a link to a relatively recent thread in which the OP discusses attachment style, and describes a need to pull their partner back...  might be worth a look:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358341.0

Hang in there.

[Pook075]

I'm not really sure what I want from this chat. My feelings haven't changed but I know her being here is stopping me from processing things as hope is constantly there for me at least.

If I had to guess, what you want from this chat is for someone to say what you're not saying- it's time to put yourself first.

The relationship ended, she's still there, and in many ways you're still playing the hero role as she lives her life.  Money is tight, no problem...you'll make it work.  Friends want to come over...no problem, you're the good partner.  Yet all of this is keeping you from processing what you're actually feeling and going through internally.

What matters right now, today, is for you to have enough space to process what to do next.  And that doesn't work with a roommate that you're still in love with.  It does increase the chances that romance will return to the equation, but it also increases the chances that you'll be heartbroken all over again.

I'm not saying to kick her out and take the scorched earth approach, but I do think you need to be completely honest with your feelings here.  If there's not an immediate path towards reconciling, then she should probably look for another place to live so each of you can focus on yourselves.

Also, it's okay to let her know how you feel and how hard all of this is for you emotionally.  Real men cry, real men are vulnerable...don't let Hollywood convince you otherwise.  You need time to grieve this relationship and make the right choices moving forward. 

And hey, maybe you reconcile at some point...that would be fantastic if that's what you want.  But you also have to be true to yourself today and make your own mental health a priority.

[RedBeard93]

Hi all,

I'm reading every post and it's bringing me a lot of comfort and support so thank you so much.

Thank you for the guidance on setting boundaries and giving her space and the same for putting my own mental health first. It's tough as I'm an extremely emotional person and I care deeply about those I love. I'm very much a carer / looker-afterer.

An update on Sunday where we were due to have a chat:

She had a busy weekend planned. A birthday present evening out on the Friday and then a BBQ at a friend's on the Saturday. So on the Sunday we agreed to have a roast dinner and chat.

She was feeling a bit worse for wear (medical conditions etc) and so I just started cooking and listened to music. She came down and helped with a few bits and then we ate together outside. After we ate I just started asking her about things in general, she laid down and seemed a little distant. When I suggest she go in and lie down if she wasn't feeling great she said "I thought we were leading into a chat".

It seemed like she very much was dreading it and I want her to be present when we talk, I know she had a few medical results coming through on the Monday alongside a very formal meeting at work that she was anxious about. So I thought we should leave the chat for now so she could rest up and prepare for the following day.

We stayed outside and chatted about how she was going to approach the meeting, she then went off and prepared some things and later in the evening came down and sat with me to go through some things she'd prepared. We then ended up watching TV together until around 11pm.

It's a doubled edged sword because I love spending time with her and she with me. But as stated in my original message I need to remember this is what she wants whereas for me its what I want too but when I wake up the next morning I remember we're not together and I'm back to square one.

We will definitely have a chat and I think I'll approach her on Wednesday when I know she's off for two days. I think I'm going to raise the following even through its really hard for me.

I was extremely happy and content with our future but I need to try and accept that my future now doesn't have you in it and it's a real struggle for me to process that with you in the house.

She wants me in her life because I mean a lot to her and she knows I'll move mountains for her, but she needs to understand the reason I did that was because we were in a relationship and she was going to be my wife. I can't be around to do that whilst she just gets on and lives her life without the responsibilities of a relationship.

Then I want to bring up plans to move out. I've not heard any updates since we first talked about it and I don't want to go full on and suggest a date but I think I'll ask what a timeline could look like for her.

Today I started looking around and enquired about a few rentals which felt sad but I was kind of ready to take that step to at least start looking.

Honestly it's just tough. But I think she's set on the relationship being over and I'm really trying to accept that and also getting a little emotionally drained.

Thanks for all the support.

[Pook075]

It sounds like you're handling all of this the right way.  You're leading with empathy while still realizing that you need to be true to yourself as well.   Yet you're doing it in a king, loving, patient way that's moving at her speed.

[RedBeard93]

Thank you that means a lot. I think I'm handling certain bits in the right way.

I think even though it hurts, if this relationship is done then I need to be on my own.

Last night when she came in she said hello asked if the pizza on the side was leftover and then got into bed and watched TV. She didn't tell me about her day which I'd expressed interest in on the weekend and in the day and she didn't ask about mine.

I was already quite emotional today and it got the better of me where I asked how her day was and we got talking. I went into her room, sat down and we talked about it. Throughout the whole time we talked I felt like I was extremely overwhelmed and maybe I should have just left the conversation politely at that point but instead at the end I bought up why I chose not to have the chat Sunday due to her having a lot of things on. Then I asked if we could chat soon maybe Tuesday or Wednesday as I feel we need to.

She said Wednesday would be good but Tuesday could work too. But when I mentioned this she seemed deflated and when I asked why she just said that after all her medical, work and therapy appointments today she just has a load of pent up anger and anxiety, it's nothing to do with me she just has a lot going on.

I also asked if she had anything to bring to the conversation and she said no. With this I said goodnight and left the room as I was getting extremely overwhelmed. I went for a walk and felt my emotions and ended up deactivating my Facebook which has been a big step for me as I know I need to get away from social media at least to stop checking it.

For me right now its really solidifying that she doesn't want this relationship and so based on that I know I need to look after myself and just centre the chat around moving out and when that could be possible.

Again thanks for all the support. It's just a struggle accepting that she's not my future anymore and that she's not there to pick me up like I did so many times for her constantly and that really hurts

[ForeverDad]

3) Gut check
Do you want a relationship with mutual trust and commitment? What does that look like for you? How do you establish - or re-establish this? Will she value your love and forgiveness, or get stuck in some difficult-to-process shame? What does success look like for you, for her, and can you get there?

BPD exists on a spectrum.  Some are milder, less dysfunctional, and a relationship is possible though not easy.  It appears she has been in therapy over the years.  Is she still participating?  It is possible she could have both BPD and ADHD, comorbid with traits of both.

There are other cases that develop over time and minor discord becomes more extreme.  You already have one post where the cycles worsened over time... 14 years, kids and divorce.  That was my experience too.  My ex was primed for dysfunction with a childhood exposed to a bad stepfather.  I thought I'd saved her but she was increasingly cycling into distress.  After a decade we tried for a child, I thought it would make her happier see a child discover the joys of life.  Clueless me, I didn't realize having children doesn't fix serious mental health issues.  Within a few years it worsened so bad we divorced and that process was so much more complicated with the added custody and parenting issues.

You might look back over your previous break ups and identify likely triggers or traumas.  Or maybe lesser things built up over time and then found a release, which for her was to break up for a while.  Just be aware that even if you two resolve this current break up, it could happen again.  The past can be a predictor for the future unless the issues are addressed.

[Pook075]

For me right now its really solidifying that she doesn't want this relationship and so based on that I know I need to look after myself and just centre the chat around moving out and when that could be possible.

Again thanks for all the support. It's just a struggle accepting that she's not my future anymore and that she's not there to pick me up like I did so many times for her constantly and that really hurts

Hey, none of us know the future.  It's possible she moves out, realizes she made a mistake, and you have one of the greatest love stories ever told someday.  Nobody is telling you to give up here because you still love her.

The advice is almost the opposite of giving up, it's placing a bet on yourself and doing everything in your power to grow, to heal, to be the best possible you.  That not only puts you in a great position to have a more fulfilling life if you guys do reconcile, but it also puts you in a great position if the relationship fails as well. 

Either way, by betting on yourself and turning your focus there, better days are ahead.

What's that look like?  You went for a walk the other day when you felt overwhelmed- that's good stuff.  When you feel frustrated, pivot.  Find what relaxes you, calms your thinking.  Discover old hobbies or start new ones; whether it's reading a book or taking a skydiving course.  The "what" doesn't matter, as long as you're passionate about it and it begins to fill a void.

For me, I started volunteering in prison ministry shortly after the breakup.  I was there to help others, but it helped me so much more in the process because I found myself once again.  Think about what activities could give you that same peace of mind- it can be anything that gets you moving and makes you smile.  That's where you start betting on yourself.

[RedBeard93]

Thanks for this.

I'm really trying to focus on myself and better myself. After chatting to some close friends I think I have a problem with low self worth which I'm going to take to my next therapy session among some other things.

We had a good chat Wednesday just gone where I explained some of the reflecting I've been doing on her feelings and my own.

I explained everything but ended it with saying if she doesn't want a relationship with me for me I would need a hard split as I don't think friendship could be an option especially as I was still fully committed to marrying her.

She at first was a little defensive about this saying something like "well you're basically saying pack my bags and that's the only option" I reinforced that this definitely isn't the case and that I'm more than happy for her to stay here until there's a plan to move back into her parents I just wanted to be kept in the loop and she provided an update on this but only that it was confusing and a struggle with her parents.

We went on to discuss how we're finding things and she discussed how she was struggling with wanting to see me and tell me things during the day and trying to work out whether that was habit or something more. We eventually came to the outcome that she said she was open to thinking about living apart but continuing a relationship. She then got a bit stressed around thinking about what that could look like in 5 or 10 years which I said let's take it slow and check in with some further conversations.

She also said "it's always going to come back to sex" (context she doesn't like intimacy due to past trauma and we only really had sex when she had something to drink after a night out etc)

I'm a very physical touch person and extremely attracted to her and although we've had discussions around this before I try to reassure her that sex isn't the only way I appreciate her intimately and I get happiness from her in loads of ways and little things we do and that she does for me.

I think I hung to the word relationship when she said it because since Wednesday I've felt slightly better than usual. I'm not sure if she's going to do a u turn when we next have a conversation but it seemed like a positive step.

This bank holiday weekend she's house-sitting for her parents and looking after her sibling so we're going to be apart for 3 nights at least.

For some extra context I messaged her mum on the same Wednesday who's been a huge support in our relationship. I'll drop the text below with some redactions due to names etc the text in question is from when my partner talked to her mum back when this happened mid march.

"Hi thanks for messaging me I’m glad you did xx this must be a super difficult time for you both and I’m really sorry

[RedBeard93]

Sorry I think it cut off my last post. I'm out currently so will update and finish the post when home

[once removed]

I would need a hard split
...
She at first was a little defensive
...
she discussed how she was struggling with wanting to see me and tell me things during the day and trying to work out whether that was habit or something more. We eventually came to the outcome that she said she was open to thinking about living apart but continuing a relationship.
...
She also said "it's always going to come back to sex"
...
I think I hung to the word relationship when she said it because since Wednesday I've felt slightly better than usual.

i really get the sense (even more, now) that she is going through something, that youre a part of, but isnt necessarily about you. think mid-life crisis, existential, that kind of thing. shes not very in touch with her feelings, shes kind of at the mercy of them, and, above all, i think your goal is not to be at the mercy of them yourself.

that in the context of "i need a hard split", she responded by entertaining a relationship is telling. im not suggesting she intentionally said it to keep you on the hook, so to speak. i am suggesting its evidence that she is not very clear on what she wants, and may be reactive and fearful. kind of like proposing getting together to watch tv, as friends; it can be a coping thing that keeps the attachment in place in her mind, and soothes her.

the good news is it suggests something is there. shes not unattracted to or repulsed by you. shes not telling you "no, its over". it is something she entertains in her mind, which means theres a chance here, which isnt the same as a guarantee, but its something you can work with.

I think I have a problem with low self worth which I'm going to take to my next therapy session

as i mentioned before, the path to re-attracting her/getting back together, or navigating a breakup actually look a great deal similar. in either scenario, youre going to need to dig down deep, find that strongest, best version of yourself. either it re-attracts her, or it helps you cope with the loss, but they arent at odds. navigating this, however it goes, is about working to stay centered.

its fantastic youre in therapy, thats exactly where you should be in terms of getting/staying centered. theres nothing more attractive than a rebuilt self worth, and theres no one more resilient, either.

there arent a lot of specific "moves" to be made here to re-attract her (and youre not flagging any "cut that out" behaviors) - its more about becoming it, living it; subtle.

i think the key is not to be at the mercy of the storm shes going through, dont add to it, and dont rescue her from it, and dont get "sucked into it". see it for what it is. it may be something that she simply has to work out (it happens), and hopefully in time, she will.

[Pook075]

She also said "it's always going to come back to sex"

After my ex and I split, she brought up the exact same thing several times.  And I'd try to reassure her that I didn't care about that aspect, but she was hyper focused on it and it came from past trauma...from a relationship before me.

I can't go into too many details, but she claimed that her ex raped her.  Yet she'd also brag about all the wild places they had sex (before and after the rape) and I had no idea what to do with any of that.

Fast-forward to the start of our relationship, and we didn't have sex for months.  No problem on my end.  Yet once that started, she was the aggressor for awhile and it was because of that past trauma.  In her mind (she told me this after we split up 20+ years later), she would never give me the opportunity to take advantage of her, so she chose to be as aggressive as possible.

And I thought- wait, what?  Are you accusing me of rape?  Or that you initiated sex all those time so I couldn't rape you?

It really messed with my head for months afterwards as I came to terms with what she was actually saying.  She had an extremely unhealthy relationship with sex and it breaks my heart for her.

So even though the sex part may not be a deal-breaker for you, she's dealing with something much deeper that has roots.  My BPD daughter had similar experiences as well and it's something that we'll rarely understand.  Do not take it personally though and realize that it's not a topic you can "fix" or "work through".  This is something for her to talk about with an experienced professional.

I hate sharing any of this, but maybe it will help others put this topic into perspective.  There's likely deep-seeded trauma there that may or may not be true, but the feelings are absolutely real regardless and they leave lifetime scars.

Please note, I'm not saying my ex wife lied about anything- she cried her eyes out as she shared this with me a few years ago.  I'm simply saying that the trauma was so deep and enveloping that she didn't have any idea how to actually deal with it, and she carried it in secret our entire 23 year marriage.

[RedBeard93]

Thanks for the continued advice everyone.

I agree she's definitely going through something right now and I'm trying to support her by giving her the space and independence that she needs.

Regarding the trauma in her earlier life that impacts intimacy there's definitely things there that she needs to deal with and tackle head on and I know she never has and when prompted she almost dismisses that it's a problem. I know this isn't something I can help with and it's on her to seek the help when she feels it's right to.

She's been house sitting for her parents since Friday and I think she's coming back today although I'm not totally sure on this.

It's been difficult as she only contacted me once about a delivery for her. Other than that she's left my last message unread and hasn't contacted me since. I'm a little confused as the last chat we had on Wednesday was accepting that we could think about a relationship whilst living apart (apart being a 5 minute walk down the road). But in the same breath I totally understand that she initially asked for independence and no responsibility to or for anyone so in a way this weekend has been a trial period being a part although if we were to go ahead with a relationship we would naturally be in contact more. Ive also made a point to listen and reflect on what she's saying she needs and I've not reached out to her and given her space.

I think due to caring about her deeply throughout the 6 year relationship I had a tendency to try and listen and comply with her needs however I would also do what I thought was best for her. This I think gave her the impression that I was not listening to her needs  which is a valid feeling on her part upon even though I thought I was always caring for her constantly.

I guess this could have made her feel isolated / not a priority which is understandable. The move back to her parents is dependent on building work they need to do for it to be suitable for her to move back in. When I asked her about this on Wednesday she indicated that she wasn't sure what was happening but that the last time it was mentioned the work would take 6 weeks and begin in June. She indicated that it's been frustrating chatting to her parents about it as they've made her at times feel that even though there's an agreement for her to pay them rent to repay the work cost that they're doing her a favor and they've mentioned a few other things that have made her feel incredibly guilty and like she has to be overly thankful even though she's paying them back. She also asked for locks on the extension that only she has access to and it was met with "oh another thing" kind of attitude.

She's also indicated that there's been mention of the space being a possible space for her younger sister in a few years which made her feel like they don't expect her to stay there long term. I also found that a bit confusing.

I do think that the idea of having a whole new space built for her is an exciting prospect which may make the moving out decision easier for her. But she must also know that if she commits to this she has to live there even if she decides she wants a relationship with me down the line.

I've really missed her this weekend and we said we would have check ins which I was hoping to spend some time with her when she's back today and lightly bring up how the weekend was for her and if she's thought anymore about our last chat. I've been using AI to help me draft some things I want to talk about. This includes what she might need for more independence in this house for the next few months to see if still living here could be a possibility if we made some adjustments. I'm not going to bombard her with these things though and if I feel like I should wait for another check in then I will.

Just after our chats about still wanting to do things together it feels natural that after a weekend apart we would then do something together to see how the dynamic feels. But the no contact has definitely been hard.

[RedBeard93]

I've also done a few tiny things this weekend just to make her still feel cared and wanted.

I tided and cleaned the house (this was very much for myself) but I also changed her bedsheets and washed her normal and work clothes and put the in the end of her bed. Whilst shes been living here I said id leave things like that to her but I thought as she has been away it might be nice to come back to fresh sheets.

I've also restocked the fridge with little bits she has daily. Things like her usual drink, snack and bananas that she's eating regularly at the moment. I don't want to do too much but I feel like these are things I would have normally done as I care for her and I feel like it's a nice subtle gesture to make her feel at home.

I've made sure I've not just gone and done these things for her I've also washed my own stuff and restocked things I like. Hopefully it won't be overstepping at all

[RedBeard93]

I'm not sure if she's actually going to be back tonight or not which has kind of got me a little down.

I know her parents will be back now but I guess she might spend another night. I have work tomorrow and I know she has a busy day so the next time in my head we could check in would be Friday or next weekend. It's a little frustrating that I haven't seen or heard from her and will have to wait for a light check in. However I do understand that when we agreed to check in there was no set cadence specified and we would just do it when the moment felt right. So on those terms I probably can't be expecting anything. Especially as she never actually said when she would be home either. I was just assuming.

I think this also comes down to her independence so I need to make sure I don't break that need of hers. I'm trying to stay strong

[Pook075]

I'm not sure if she's actually going to be back tonight or not which has kind of got me a little down.

I know her parents will be back now but I guess she might spend another night. I have work tomorrow and I know she has a busy day so the next time in my head we could check in would be Friday or next weekend. It's a little frustrating that I haven't seen or heard from her and will have to wait for a light check in. However I do understand that when we agreed to check in there was no set cadence specified and we would just do it when the moment felt right. So on those terms I probably can't be expecting anything. Especially as she never actually said when she would be home either. I was just assuming.

I think this also comes down to her independence so I need to make sure I don't break that need of hers. I'm trying to stay strong

You're in such a tough position right now and I'm glad you stayed busy while she was away.  Remember your own words though, that you'd prefer a hard split for the time being if there wasn't a path towards immediate reconciliation.

This was a "test run", so to speak, and you made it through.  Of course you've missed her; you love her still.  But it wasn't the end of the world either.

Hopefully she's had some time to think and process things...time apart can be a really good thing sometimes.

[RedBeard93]

Thanks for your reply and yeah I need to remember that a hard split is what will be best for me in the long run if there's no chance of a relationship.

So an update.

She came back last night. I was in the living room watching some rubbish TV.

I'd got a nose piercing over the weekend ( something I was debating doing for a while and something she was also excited for me to do) she reacted with excitement, said it suited me and looked "ace" which I know I shouldn't over analyze but it's not a word she's used with me before and maybe was cautious about using something that made me think she thought it was attractive etc which I can understand, but regardless made me feel like she really has changed her feelings towards me.

She asked if I wanted a drinking buddy ( I had a small glass of wine on the table) I agreed, we sat down and talked about the weekend. We laughed, shouted at the tv etc. She expressed that she was tired and I asked if she wanted to pause what we were watching and go to bed, she didn't reply so I kept watching. Then about 30 minutes later she said she was falling asleep so I agreed to pause it and we both went off to bed.

I know you should probably go with a gut feeling on things like this because I know her well. But it really does feel different to the other times. She explained how she didn't drink much on the weekend and just watched things on TV with her sister and her sisters friends. She's off to therapy today and I've left a note saying I hope it goes well and she has a good day as I'm off to work.

It's just so frustrating as for me I know we had a really good relationship regardless of the ups and downs but I also know having these wine nights is something she wants, so she's more likely to be accepting of the situation.

[RedBeard93]

I know she has a busy week ahead. So after our last conversation I think I might check in with her this Friday or Saturday

[RedBeard93]

I've had a really really tough day today. I've felt like crying all day and even as I'm on the train home I feel terrible.

I think it's mostly from the fact we had a nice evening last night. Maybe these moments aren't good for me even though I love them at the time.

I know she's had a busy day but I half expected her to reach out after her appointment today.

The last time we chatted seemed positive around being in a relationship but living separately however I think I'm scared to check in incase she's changed her mind. I said we could take it slow whilst seeing if it's a route forward for us. And afterwards when I said about any outcomes she said we could have regular catch ups but I struggle to know when to put these in.

Honestly it's just a bad day I think. I'm trying to keep it together. It also hurts that even back in mid January we were texting and she was saying things like "I love how much you love me" etc.

Idk this whole thing is just so difficult

[once removed]

giving her the space and independence that she needs.

in terms of navigating all of this, thats probably priority number 1.

you really want to avoid any feelings of obligation. she will balk.

Honestly it's just a bad day I think.

it may be that, but it also may not be the last.

youre in a tricky place here. your hopes are up, theyre down, youre mentally watching for signs either way. your nervous system may be somewhat trained on them. having been there before, it can be dopaminergic, where it all sort of feeds on itself, and gets you stuck in a loop of uncertainty, feels great when you detect positive signs, hard crash in the absence of them, ever more vigilant detecting of signs.

thats okay/not bad, in and of itself. but two things are key to staying centered:

1. she is not in a place where she can deal with any level of neediness. it will push her away. checkins, obligatory talks, potentially even some of the loving/welcoming gestures, can all potentially feel that way to her. it would likely help to be out (anywhere) more, a little less available, and also can help break up some of the vigilance.

2. none of this is easy, we understand. you need an outlet(s) that isnt her. that can be us, it can be friends and family, therapist, etc. doing that is the other half of staying centered. its not to stifle yourself, per se, its to use the outlets to vent and work through those feelings, utilize that support, that shes not capable of being right now. so, it was a smart move to spill your guts here. those are good boundaries in practice.

thats how you stay cool  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

[RedBeard93]

Thanks for the reply, I know you're right. It's taken everything in me this evening not to vent to her. I haven't and I'm proud of that.

I did however let her talk about her CFT therapy. She said she'd done her research and went to the psychologist and said how she has all skills and that she doesn't need it and they've ended her sessions as it's all they would offer her. She expressed how she'd love to go to a counselor to talk through everything in her life but that's on her.

She is (in my opinion based on the past) in a very okay place right now and she thinks that too. And she's adamant that her BPD diagnosis doesn't sit with her and never has and that she never felt like she related to anyone with BPD. It's hard not to take her opinion at face value as I know our history proves she definitely has a personality disorder. However her saying that and the way she's acting does hit home that she really is thinking the breakup through.

Previously she has gone out drinking, sought attention, been reckless with money and at the moment she's planning in things to do with friends, being careful with money, not drinking etc. I am really happy for her but it's just hits home that she's probably serious about this and we're not going to get married etc

I'm really really trying to accept that. I think I need to. It's nice to vent on here and I know I just need to crack on with this and sort my own life out. It's just easier said than done.

Thank you for being there though

[Pook075]

She is (in my opinion based on the past) in a very okay place right now and she thinks that too. And she's adamant that her BPD diagnosis doesn't sit with her and never has and that she never felt like she related to anyone with BPD. It's hard not to take her opinion at face value as I know our history proves she definitely has a personality disorder. However her saying that and the way she's acting does hit home that she really is thinking the breakup through.

This is a process for her just as much as it is for you, and I'm sure she's thought this out at length.  The mental illness aspect complicates that process and makes the future more unpredictable.

With that said, your conversations sound positive and your eyes are opening to what a long-term relationship might look like.  How does that make you feel?

[RedBeard93]

It feels very vague and unpredictable which is probably the history of our relationship coming through.

I think although we agreed to check in on the relationship but living apart point I just see her still trying to be distant from me even though she messaged me yesterday asking if I wanted anything from the shop for dinner.

I think it's more frustrating because I want to have another check in right now. However I'm still taking into account her life in the background. For example she has a very stressful work meeting tomorrow after work that was delayed that could have an impact on her job going forward.

So I think it's my anxiety getting the better of me where I just want to talk to her more or do things with her. I think I can wait until Friday evening. It's not that long away but it's tough that I'm still thinking of her.

I know I want a relationship with her as I was happy and it was rewarding in many ways. But there is an element of her needs always being out first even though part of the recent "crisis" is that no one listens to her needs even though she does loads of effort on her part to manage her health so it doesn't affect others. I do think there's some truth to this but not as much as she's making it out to be. All I've ever done is put her needs first and change my routines to think about her e.g move out of the main bedroom due to snoring, always bring her whatever she needs, be there for her in times of emotional stresses.

[RedBeard93]

Update-

She came back from work today and infact had the meeting today that she thought was tomorrow. It went really well and she feels really good about everything.

We sat and talked about it with some wine. We watched TV and had dinner together. I was tempted to bring up having a check in we agreed upon but didn't.

It was a good night and then we said goodnight.

In all honesty the more this happens and the more I see her in a pretty okay place mentally.

I still have all the hope as I still want to be her partner and it's going to be tough as hell if / when she moves out. It's just really hard to detach myself right now if that's what I should be doing. Being there for chats and watching TV with her is lovely. She even wanted a snack and remarked that we had her favourite snack. Obviously the only reason we do is because I make sure they're in for her. I'm sure she appreciates it but at the same time there seems to be no acknowledgement of that it's like it's just expected to still be the case but also if they weren't there I don't think she would make much of a fuss you know?

I just think she's grieved it all maybe. I don't know.

[Pook075]

I still have all the hope as I still want to be her partner and it's going to be tough as hell if / when she moves out.

Good realization- and one thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other.  It is possible that <a> you need space to heal while < b> you want to see the relationship improve over time.  Yes, it will be hard at times and yes, you will miss her.  But you can't confuse short-term goals (your healing) with long-term goals (restoring the relationship).

She even wanted a snack and remarked that we had her favourite snack. Obviously the only reason we do is because I make sure they're in for her. I'm sure she appreciates it but at the same time there seems to be no acknowledgement of that it's like it's just expected to still be the case but also if they weren't there I don't think she would make much of a fuss you know?

I just think she's grieved it all maybe. I don't know.

That reminded me of an incident shortly after my ex and I broke up.  She was visiting my daughter next door with her parents and they all ended up spending the night.  I couldn't sleep so I made a drive to the next town over (about an hour each way) to buy her favorite coffee so she'd have it waking up.  It was like 6 AM by the time I got there, and the fresh pastries smelled great so I grabbed some of them too.  Then I was home around 7:15 and left everything on my daughter's front porch.

When my ex's mom saw the receipt and how far I'd driven, she came over to thank me and ask why I went so far.  I told her that it was the nearest place to get my ex's favorite coffee brand/flavor; nobody stocked it locally.  So she went to my ex and told her to come thank me...and couldn't understand why she wouldn't.

It's not that my ex didn't appreciate it- she just took it for granted that her husband should do stuff like that.  And it took my mother in law's reaction for me to realize, "Hey, this isn't a normal thing that people just do for each other without receiving thanks."

Do I regret it though?  Not at all.  However, it also made me think about my intentions- why did I do it that particular day?  And I think that's the million dollar question.