Toxic MIL — When is enough, enough? And what do I do??

[Our abuse recovery guide]

TL;DR:
After years of setting boundaries my MIL tramples over, she recently showed up at our house uninvited while only the nannies were home — no apology, no accountability. Yesterday, after we drove an hour to let her see the kids (and she showed up 45 minutes late), she had the nerve to call me “rude” — even though I was nothing but polite and reserved. She verbally abuses my husband daily, guilt-trips him over his entire childhood, and now demands he buy her a car because she “gave him opportunities.” She’s toxic, entitled, and determined to sabotage our marriage. I’m beyond done. Looking for advice or solidarity from anyone who’s survived this kind of nightmare.

…
The LOOooong Version:

Over the years, I’ve made every effort to set clear and fair boundaries with my mother-in-law — and time and time again, she has shown complete disregard for them. Just a few weeks ago, she showed up at our home completely unannounced while my husband and I were both at work. The nannies were there with the kids, and she made herself right at home — no warning, no permission, no respect for the boundaries we’ve tried to put in place. After that, I made it very clear to her that this was not acceptable and outlined a specific protocol for any future visits. She showed little to no remorse — no apology, no real acknowledgment of how inappropriate and destabilizing that was. It was just brushed off like everything else.

Fast forward to yesterday. Despite everything, we still made an effort to drive the kids an hour to see her. She knew exactly when we had to leave — noon — and still showed up 45 minutes late, wasting most of the time she could have spent with them. Once again, her needs and whims came before anyone else’s.

I also want to be clear about how I handled myself during that visit. I was polite. I wasn’t overly warm and fuzzy — but I answered when spoken to, I was respectful, and I made sure not to create any tension. I wasn’t rude in any way. I was simply reserved, protecting my own peace and being careful not to engage beyond what was necessary.

For more background: over the years, I’ve received countless aggressive, accusatory, and often completely nonsensical texts and emails from her. I stopped responding a long time ago — because engaging just gave her more fuel. Beyond her treatment of me, she also verbally abuses my husband almost daily — constantly making him feel like he owes her for everything she ever did for him growing up. Her newest fixation is that he should buy her a car — because, according to her, he owes it to her for all the “opportunities” she supposedly provided when he was a child.

After yesterday’s visit, I asked my husband if she had followed up with anything. He hesitated to tell me — which says a lot — but I caught a glimpse of a text she sent him afterward that said: “I didn’t raise you to marry a person like her. She was pretty rude.”

This isn’t new. She’s been making comments like this for years — always dancing around or flat-out suggesting that my husband should leave me. No matter how much we’ve tried to be the bigger people, no matter how much grace and space we’ve given her for the sake of family, she finds new ways to attack and belittle me and undermine our marriage.

I’m furious. I’m hurt. And I’m just tired. After everything we’ve endured, after every opportunity we’ve given her to have a healthy relationship, she still chooses manipulation and cruelty. I don’t know what the next right step is, but putting this into words already feels like a small relief. If anyone has advice, or even just a “you’re not crazy for feeling this way,” it would mean a lot. Thank you for reading.

[HFord1000]

TL;DR:
After years of setting boundaries my MIL tramples over, she recently showed up at our house uninvited while only the nannies were home — no apology, no accountability. Yesterday, after we drove an hour to let her see the kids (and she showed up 45 minutes late), she had the nerve to call me “rude” — even though I was nothing but polite and reserved. She verbally abuses my husband daily, guilt-trips him over his entire childhood, and now demands he buy her a car because she “gave him opportunities.” She’s toxic, entitled, and determined to sabotage our marriage. I’m beyond done. Looking for advice or solidarity from anyone who’s survived this kind of nightmare.

…
The LOOooong Version:

Over the years, I’ve made every effort to set clear and fair boundaries with my mother-in-law — and time and time again, she has shown complete disregard for them. Just a few weeks ago, she showed up at our home completely unannounced while my husband and I were both at work. The nannies were there with the kids, and she made herself right at home — no warning, no permission, no respect for the boundaries we’ve tried to put in place. After that, I made it very clear to her that this was not acceptable and outlined a specific protocol for any future visits. She showed little to no remorse — no apology, no real acknowledgment of how inappropriate and destabilizing that was. It was just brushed off like everything else.

Fast forward to yesterday. Despite everything, we still made an effort to drive the kids an hour to see her. She knew exactly when we had to leave — noon — and still showed up 45 minutes late, wasting most of the time she could have spent with them. Once again, her needs and whims came before anyone else’s.

I also want to be clear about how I handled myself during that visit. I was polite. I wasn’t overly warm and fuzzy — but I answered when spoken to, I was respectful, and I made sure not to create any tension. I wasn’t rude in any way. I was simply reserved, protecting my own peace and being careful not to engage beyond what was necessary.

For more background: over the years, I’ve received countless aggressive, accusatory, and often completely nonsensical texts and emails from her. I stopped responding a long time ago — because engaging just gave her more fuel. Beyond her treatment of me, she also verbally abuses my husband almost daily — constantly making him feel like he owes her for everything she ever did for him growing up. Her newest fixation is that he should buy her a car — because, according to her, he owes it to her for all the “opportunities” she supposedly provided when he was a child.

After yesterday’s visit, I asked my husband if she had followed up with anything. He hesitated to tell me — which says a lot — but I caught a glimpse of a text she sent him afterward that said: “I didn’t raise you to marry a person like her. She was pretty rude.”

This isn’t new. She’s been making comments like this for years — always dancing around or flat-out suggesting that my husband should leave me. No matter how much we’ve tried to be the bigger people, no matter how much grace and space we’ve given her for the sake of family, she finds new ways to attack and belittle me and undermine our marriage.

I’m furious. I’m hurt. And I’m just tired. After everything we’ve endured, after every opportunity we’ve given her to have a healthy relationship, she still chooses manipulation and cruelty. I don’t know what the next right step is, but putting this into words already feels like a small relief. If anyone has advice, or even just a “you’re not crazy for feeling this way,” it would mean a lot. Thank you for reading.

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm sorry you're going through this and no, you're not crazy for feeling this way.  Hopefully we can give enough advice here so you can handle this relationship a little better in the future.

Let's start with boundaries as they deal with mental health.  A boundary is for you and you alone, and it makes no difference if someone else respects your boundaries or not.  It has nothing to do with what they're expected to do...it's what you'll do when they cross your boundary.

For example, you stopped reading emails...that's a boundary.  If she sends an ugly email or text, you don't read it, and as a result she now sends less ugly emails and texts.  But changing her behavior isn't the only goal there, the boundary is to protect you from her abusive behaviors.

Telling your mother in law that she can't show up unannounced- yup, that's a boundary too.  But boundaries only work if you're going to enforce them.  So how can you enforce trespassing without your husband feeling angry?  I mean, you can't call the police, you can't expect the hired help to throw your MIL out, and i doubt you returned home and demanded that she left right away.  So this isn't actually a boundary because you allowed your MIL to walk all over it.

Again, a boundary is made by you, for you, that states when MIL does this, I'm going to react appropriately to ensure I don't get my feelings hurt (or worse).  You say don't come over, she comes over...now what?  Of course she's going to push back on your boundaries, she's mentally ill.

The other part of that "showing up unannounced" boundary is that it's partially outside your control.  It also includes your husband, the children, etc.  You can't tell all of them how to react when grandma shows up.  Again, your boundaries are only for you, to protect you.  When she does this, I'm going to do that to protect my own mental health.

For example, maybe after making the long drive with the kids to see grandma, and she doesn't even show up on time, you'd want a boundary to be to just leave.  But there's a problem there, that boundary includes more than just you.  You can't set family boundaries on how everyone should react, it has to be personal for you.  So maybe when that happens, you hop in the car and go grab some coffee, or visit a local bookstore, while your husband deals with the drama.

One is a boundary you can enforce, the other is something you have no control over.  Can you see that?

It doesn't have to be done in a rude way either.  MIL is running late, you feel tension building, and you simply say, "You know what- we're out of eggs and coffee creamer.  I'm going to run to the store real fast before I forget."  And boom, a boundary is set and executed, without hurting anyone or getting your feelings hurt.

The other part of a boundary is that for it to be effective, you must do it every single time in a very predictable manner.  That means walking away at the first sight of ugliness or feeling threatened (emotionally).  It shows the BPD that something is definitely off and they'll reexamine what happened, to try to figure out why there wasn't the typical tension build up and all the ugliness that causes her to rant.

I wasn't with you on that meetup, but I can already tell that your body language made MIL feel uncomfortable.  Maybe you were polite and played the part, but she FELT your anger towards her and it was the same as telling her off.  That's because she lives by emotion and is constantly looking for someone to slight her...she finds it even when it's not there.  So of course your body language told a story that you tried so hard to avoid...she knew exactly how you felt in the moment and instantly felt like she was the victim.

But if you went to grab some eggs before she even showed up, then you're not stressed and she's not either.  Maybe she still complains because you weren't there, but that's between her and your husband.  It removes you from the equation entirely and that's what we want.

Make sense?

[EyesUp]

I'll riff on Pook's line of thinking...

If your MIL is true to type, the side trip to the store will be re-framed by her as an example of something you've done wrong... failed to plan in advance, whatever.

But - the suggestion to enforce boundaries is gold.

How about starting a little closer to home? Can you expand a bit about the dynamic with your husband? It's complicated because there's you-MIL, husband-MIL, and you-husband. Of these three relationships, the last one, you-husband, is obviously the priority. Can we shift focus in that direction?

Your husband likely feels stuck in the middle. Perhaps he agrees that his mother is overbearing or controlling or doing something he agrees/wishes she would not do. Yes? 

And he's unable or unwilling to communicate with his mother in a productive way. Yes?

So the remaining options are pretty disheartening - perhaps you're not at the point where ultimatums are made, but what other options are there?

People do, in fact, choose to limit contact with a toxic parent.  Has this ever been a topic of discussion with your H?  To be clear, it's not a recommendation - just a question, to get a sense of where things stand. 

It sounds like your H is also stressed by his mother's behavior, and yet he wants to find a way to balance things:  The kids should have time with grandma, his W should have a copacetic relationship with mom, he should have a copacetic relationship with mom, and - most importantly - he should have a healthy and mutually supportive dynamic with his W!  Fair?

But - asking the hard question - is this achievable?  Is only part of it achievable? 

Did your H share that text, or did you sneak a peek?  Again, asking to understand the lay of the land.

Last question:  you mentioned that it's been like this for a long time.  Was there a time when your relationship with mom was different, or did something change along the way that contributed to the current dynamic?  Or did you know before you were married that your MIL could/would be a challenging presence?

Please share whatever you're comfortable with - and hang in there.

[Notwendy]

My mother had BPD and while there are similar behaviors- I think the dynamics are different when it's a MIL than one's own mother.  It is helpful to read about Karpman triangle dynamics to help understand these situations.

First of all- to have boundaries with MIL is your H's task to do. This is his mother and these dynamics have been between them and his family since before her met you. These are long standing patterns for him. Your role is to be of support to him in this task, but IMHO he needs to be the one to be able to have boundaries with her.

If you are taking on this role for him, you step into the Karpman triangle as the rescuer to your H and as persecutor. BPD mother is in victim perspective. Her reaction is against you. When H stays passive, he remains the good guy in relationship to his mother. These two remain bonded. You are the "bad guy". This won't work as it perpetuates the dynamics in his family.

With some grace for your H- why isn't he on the front line with this? When a child is raised with dysfunction, this is all they know. It's their "normal". He may also fear his mother's reactions. While it doesn't make sense for a grown man to be afraid of his mother- this fear began in childhood, when he was small and dependent on her. He may not even have the emotional skills to have boundaries with her if he wasn't ever allowed to.

Boundaries aren't necessarily rude, but a pwBPD may react to them as if they are. Still, the two of you need to be united on what your boundaries are with BPD MIL.

In actuality- this is a marital issue. As long as BPD MIL is the "bad guy" (persecutor) in your marriage, this takes the attention off the relationship issue which is- why does your H allow his mother to treat you this way? It's because he also allows her to be verbally abusive to him and why he does this is complicated. I believe he does love you, so it's not anything you can do differently. It's the dynamic between him and his mother that has been going on since childhood for him and for this to change- he needs to be the one to change it.

You can not change your H or your MIL. Consider that this dynamic- you as persecutir- and MIL as victim is working for MIL- so she has no incentive to change this. So how is this working for your H? If you are doing the main job of trying to have boundaries with your MIL, or pleasing her- he stays the "good guy" in MIL's perspective.

I strongly recommend counseling- for the two of you and for your H especially. These are difficult family dynamics to make changes on. It seems obvious to you what the issue is but this is all he knows. This is his mother who he grew up with. A counselor will be an objective person to work with- and so takes you out of your role in the Karpman triangle dynamics between you, your H, and his mother.