does she dislike me or is her guard up? - please help

[stevemcduck]

I think she said I was playing mind games but that was projection, it is her that plays mind games

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[once removed]

I think she said I was playing mind games but that was projection, it is her that plays mind games

if you reject what she says out of hand, and counter it with an accusation (its not me, its you, i am rubber, you are glue), how can you put yourself in her head? how can conflict be resolved?

set aside whether or not you agree with what she said. agreement doesnt matter, in this context.

what do you think she was she communicating to you about how she felt?

[stevemcduck]

I think in her head she thought that I should have given in to what she wanted without question, and I should not have tried to get anything in return, she thought I was attacking her for saying I liked the communication and I was being sarcastic.

also maybe she realised that what I was saying was correct but did not want to have that outlined to her and she felt bad and responded with anger

I was in a way as I felt used and I was sad she couldn't talk to me like that normally only when she wanted something, so I said what I said, I wish I hadn't know but in that moment I felt like an atm machine

[once removed]

okay. good effort.

I should not have tried to get anything in return, she thought I was attacking her for saying I liked the communication and I was being sarcastic.

also maybe she realised that what I was saying was correct but did not want to have that outlined to her and she felt bad and responded with anger
...
I was in a way as I felt used but in that moment I felt like an atm machine

you felt used when she asked for money. that makes sense. youre wanting commitment, reassurance, consistency.

I’m sad you have stopped with the kisses on the messages and taken it this way I’m literally on my bank now to help you xx

her: Because I asked you for a simple favour as my boyfriend and I’m being met with unnecessary hurdles and sly disguised comments,

do you think she might have felt that the money came with strings attached?

[stevemcduck]

yes absolutely

[stevemcduck]

she thought I would just give it to her, which I would have, I just highlighted I liked that kind of responsive texting and asked for more going forward

[once removed]

she thought I would just give it to her, which I would have, I just highlighted I liked that kind of responsive texting and asked for more going forward

context is everything.

shes just out of surgery. needs money for a cab.

i dont think most people particularly like asking for money. it can trigger shame or embarrassment.

so she asked for it, but what she got probably sounded to her like:

"sure, ill give it to you. but i want you to do something for me. more pet names, more responsiveness; reassure me, and also, give me some dates for your visit."

can you see how that might feel to someone in her position? the concern wasnt about how her surgery went. it wasnt about supporting her; thats what she was asking you for.

in your hurt, and need, in that moment, you looked past her, looked past what she was communicating, and asked her for, essentially, more reassurance.

whether you intended it or not, the message she received was: i need support right now, and i cant ask my boyfriend for it, without strings attached. i dont feel supported, i feel obligated.

im sure your perspective would differ from hers. you have your reasons. from your end, you were just trying to state more of what youd like going forward. if anything, you probably felt like this was positive reinforcement, "hey, i like this, more of this please".

but when two people (both of you) are locked in conflict, competing over your needs, speaking out of hurt and anger, and generally not hearing each other...any of that nuance is likely to get lost. all either of you hear is "i need you to do more".

fair? whether you agree with her perspective or not (you have your own reasons for your own motivations), can you put yourself in her shoes, and understand why she might have felt that way?

[stevemcduck]

Thank you for outlining it like that, I can completely take on board what you are saying and I understand, where do you think I should go from here?

[once removed]

where do you think I should go from here?

think values-based action.

what do your values tell you to do?

if it were me, and i agreed with my own assessment?

id apologize, sincerely, for what i felt guilty of, and id do it with no expectation to how she'll react. however, id be mindful about it, and id apologize carefully. let me explain.

apology:

id tell her, in simple terms: "hey. i really lost my cool there. you were looking to me for support, and in the moment, i was thinking more about myself. im really sorry. i hope youre recovering okay from surgery, id like to hear more about how youre doing when youre ready."

mind you, im using the kind of language that i would use. put it in the language that the two of you use, that she will recognize as coming from you, in a way that is sincere. you can practice here before you send it; its a delicate apology that can easily be thrown off with the wrong word or two.

what it does:

it says "i get it.". it takes ownership of your behavior. it says, loud and clear "im putting the gloves down. no more fighting.", in a way that she can feel it and trust it. it will catch her off guard.

what it doesnt do: it doesnt perpetuate the fight. it doesnt JADE. it doesnt point fingers at her behavior.

but it also, importantly, goes out of its way not to look needy. it doesnt ask where you stand. it doesnt ask for reassurance. it doesnt even assume she will answer. because if you do those things, theres a good chance it will look wishy-washy, and she will shut it down. it doesnt stick your neck on the line, it just says "i regret my behavior". its an apology, an olive branch, and its warm. no more, no less.

you should know, going into it, that you may not immediately get the response youre hoping for. she may not answer. or she may let you have it, and blow off some more steam.

if she does, and youre able to stand there, absorb it, keep your cool, it will be powerful. it will also, likely, be very difficult to do. the temptation may be to argue, or to try to save things. dont. resist the urge. just listen. if you do that, she will soften her stance. itll show her the cool, calm, confident, upbeat guy that she fell for in the first place, or an even more mature version of him.

you dont want to actually say this, but its "youre so cute when youre angry" energy. it doesnt take things personally, or get bent out of shape. thats the message behind it.

but you should be prepared, because i know it takes a lot of guts to apologize in a time like this, and if she comes out swinging (she may not; hopefully she doesnt), it will hurt, and you may feel tempted, in your hurt, to let her have it back. its just something that happens sometimes, when two people have been fighting increasingly hard for a long time. one may not be ready to make up before they blow off some more steam. if it happens, take it in stride, and thats all it will have to be.

[stevemcduck]

thanks so much for that advice, would you do it now or wait for more time to pass?

[stevemcduck]

I would say it like this

hi. I wasn't at my best in our last conversation. you were looking to me for support, and in the moment, i was thinking to push for my own needs. im sorry. i hope you are feeling ok after your operation, id like to hear more about how you are recovering  when you are ready

[stevemcduck]

it was 2 days ago we had that last conversation

[once removed]

that sounds great to me. if its how you feel, if it reflects your values, and youre prepared for whatever happens, id send it as soon as youre ready.

hold back the instinct to react to whatever happens. bring it here, and we can help.

[stevemcduck]

il send it tomorrow sometime as its late, I won't respond to anything until I consult here

[stevemcduck]

im not sure how to explain it but im feeling a weird kind of fear to send this message

[once removed]

okay.

what sort of fear? whats it telling you?

[stevemcduck]

I think maybe that I won't get a reply and I will feel bad, I face the fear and sent the message, I will report what our if anything happens, thanks for your help so far

[once removed]

I think maybe that I won't get a reply and I will feel bad, I face the fear and sent the message

understandable. and real. lets talk it through.

if you put yourself in her shoes for a moment, you can see why that might happen, initially, but doesnt have to be the end of the world.

if youre pissed off at someone, you might still be pissed off after they apologize. you might want to express your anger by letting them wait. or you might not want to talk to them at all. or you might recognize that youre pissed off, and know that its better to wait until youve calmed down, to reply.

any of those things could happen. it doesnt mean the reply wont come.

or, worse. she could still be angry, and tell you to   off. that doesnt have to be the end of the world, either. weve probably all received an apology, still been pissed, and told them where to shove their apology.

if she does that, and you take it in stride, see it for what it is, and dont lash out back, she will be surprised. she will say "wait a minute, this is real. something new has come over him.". she will soften. anybody would.

so, in terms of your fear, you can be prepared for either of those things, and know what to do. be patient. be cool. dont over-react. the apology was a great first move, but it doesnt necessarily, immediately, resolve everything.

[stevemcduck]

yes you are right, there is no risk of me over reacting to whatever comes, I am able to remain composed, il keep you posted

thanks again

[stevemcduck]

my message sent at least, so I know im not blocked, which I was half expecting

[stevemcduck]

hi I have got a response

"you can't say this to me after asked your sister to remove me from your family chat, leave me alone"

I was at a family bbq and said it looks like we split up for good and my sister said shall I remove her from the family chat, I said yes. in all fairness it wasn't a nasty move at all just I thought it would be appropriate seem as what was happening between up, the group has my sister and parents in it.

any advice would be appreciated

[stevemcduck]

she actually said "please leave me alone"

[once removed]

in all fairness it wasn't a nasty move at all just I thought it would be appropriate seem as what was happening between up, the group has my sister and parents in it.

it wasnt a nasty move, but it was a reactive move. and it sent a message.

and it clearly stung.

this is one of the possible outcomes we talked about. shes still pissed, so she sees your apology, and it feels, to her, hollow.

see it for what it is. understand it. its just a wounded person talking out of hurt.

youve done very well by not reacting to it. because now, you can catch her off guard.

whats the first thing that comes to mind that you want to respond with? doesnt matter if its good or bad, we're just practicing here, but whats the first thing youd be inclined to respond with?

[stevemcduck]

my first response in mind is -

I thought you had broken up with my the time you said you didn't want to talk anymore so I thought it would be appropriate to remove you from that group. if that is not the case I am confused. I dont even know if we are still together now or not. I think it's clear you don't want me. if you dont want me to connect you again I guess I must accept that. you were truly loved and accepted for who you are. im so sorry you have to go through the struggles you do and I wanted to be there for you. if your state of mind ever allows you to see that all I have ever wanted was for us to enjoy our lived together and be happy, my line will always be open to you. if not and you truly do want me to walk away, I guess this is goodbye, I wish you the very best. im going to miss you

[once removed]

okay.

your first instinct is to react. to defend yourself. to JADE.

which is understandable. its been a highly stressful situation. you fear her slipping away.

the problem is that in this case, it works against you. sending that message would invalidate the apology you made. it would send the message that you thought what you did was right. it would push her away.

what if you first regulated yourself, and then responded in a new, values based way? something like (not necessarily these exact words):

"youre right. i lost my cool. i made sense of it at the time, but i can see that it was hurtful. i can understand if you dont want to talk to me right now, or need space. i wont interfere with that. if, or when, you decide you want to talk, ill be here".

this doesnt get into who was right or wrong. it simply owns your own behavior, the part you regret. it also doesnt overreact, or take her "leave me alone" as "goodbye forever". it says "i get why youre mad, and i can take it, and i can give you space".

it doesnt respond to her defensiveness with more defensiveness. it says "i come in peace, ive put down the weapons, and im safe to come to, when youre ready."

you are both used to this - you are both used to not being heard, and not hearing each other, and reacting, and speaking in hurt, and thats been the cycle - the one you want to break. shes doing that right now. if she doesnt get argumentativeness, or justification from you, like shes expecting? shes gonna be shocked. shes gonna be impressed. its gonna look confident, mature, and centered. she wont know what the hell to do with it.

[stevemcduck]

You are a master with words, thank you, again, I will send my version of that exact message and report back