Just one huge problem remains…

[thankful person]

Hi all,

I have been a bpd fam member here four years now. So I’ll do a quick recap/intro… I am a married lesbian with four small children who are biologically my dbpd wife’s (created through ivf), but legally half mine.

I would like to reiterate how much bpd family has helped me improve my marriage and my wife’s behaviour and treatment of me. She does not think she has bpd “anymore”, and does not think her behaviour needs to improve. But I have single-handedly turned things around through following the advice on here and particularly the “Stop Caretaking” book. We did have a very bad year following the birth of our third baby, 2023, my wife split on me the whole year. I’m surprised we made it out of that year together.

Somehow things again have improved to the point that I am extremely happy with my life. I still sometimes think, it would be nice if I wasn’t with such a difficult person. But generally I don’t mind as I feel I know how to handle her now and I’m much better at standing up for myself and doing what I want to do.

The problem is still my wife’s relationship with my mother and her refusal to let Mum visit her grandchildren, who she has barely met though we do FaceTime her and my elderly disabled father, we live 5 hours away so it’s not easy to visit.

In 2023 the year from hell, I faced the final frontier and insisted my mother would be visiting. I was willing to give up my marriage over this, I had to be committed to this, and I find it shocking that I would have more rights over my children were I to go through a divorce and custody battle. It was in some ways easier to commit to the possibility of losing my marriage that year because it felt like it was almost over.

Now things have changed so much. I get on with my wife, our relationship seems somewhat stable and her behaviour mostly sane and most importantly my children seem emotionally healthy. She is refusing to have my mother visit or me to take the children to see her. No variation of this is acceptable to my wife such as my wife going out while my mother visits for a few hours.

My wife’s reasoning (in her own words): My mother makes her feel “uncomfortable in her own home”. Mum has never made any effort to talk to her or get to know her and is not interested in her as a person or her past. She feels that Mum is only interested in the kids.

My Mum’s response to this: I always try to ask bpdw how she is and show an interest (they only have a text message relationship). I don’t know what else I can do. (My opinion in truth is yeah I doubt Mum likes or has any respect for you cos she knows of you treating me like sh1t and all the grief you’ve caused me.)

The stakes have changed for me. Of course I want my mother to have an in-person relationship with our kids, like bpdw’s mother who came on holiday with us as babysitter but barely lifted a finger to help and did not contribute to the cost of food and drinks. But I don’t want to create a massive problem now that things are going so well. In addition to this, I’m not sure how I can insist my mother sees the kids or what that would look like because inviting Mum round against my wife’s wishes is certainly not a good idea. My wife says, it’s simple, once she starts showing she actually cares about me then I’ll let her see the kids. My Mum has given us lots of money but apparently that’s just “throwing money at the problem” when really it’s the only thing Mum feels she can help with.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and wisdom. My mother is 80 years old and seems very well but we never know how long we have. As an aside.. I did not invite my mother round last year because I personally did fall out with her. What happened was our dog was diagnosed with cruciate injuries in both legs and we were quoted over £10k for surgery to fix it, and given the impression from the vet that we would likely be looking at euthanising soon if we couldn’t get the cash. I asked my Mum for the money out of desperation and she accused me of bullying her. This hurt me deeply because it was about my grief over a beloved pet which is not the same as bullying although it may have come across that way. For anyone who’s interested the dog has somewhat recovered  , he is still injured but has gone back to loving life and doesn’t seem to be suffering.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Notwendy]

Hi TP- I am glad things are going better for you. This, unfortunately, seems to be a common dynamic. There are posts from heartbroken mothers in law who have been separated by their child and grandchildren due to the feelings of the BPD spouse.

And, like your mother, they have tried all they know to do, but as you know, we can not change anyone else's feelings. There's no way to do "good enough" because of this. It seems your mother has been very generous but it's not "good enough". Also, it's not due to anything your mother didn't do or do- because she's been put into that perspective by your wife. Your mother can't fix this.

The advice given to them is that it's going to be up to their child to change this, not them. You can't change your wife's feelings either. It would need to be addressed and you'd have to stand up for it. But this risks the relative calm in your situation. IMHO, there isn't an easy path out of it.

This may sound harsh- but from your mother's perspective, when you asked your mother for the money for the dog, I think she did feel bullied. Why? Not over the dog in the moment but because, she's been generous financially with you and your wife, and she doesn't get to see her grandchildren? She's already understood your choice of your wife's feelings over hers and the children and she's given the two of you money for your needs over them. If she had a connection to the grandchildren, she may have not felt hurt over the request for help for the dog but she's already in a state of feeling hurt.

These are difficult situation. You've made your choice and your mother knows that. But she also has the choice of what to do with her own money.Your mother loves you- she really does, but she may not be willing to give financial support in a situation that is hurtful to her. She may have decided on her own boundary here.

[thankful person]

Thank you not Wendy for your insightful reply as always. So I understand that there is no point at all in trying to get Mum to fit in with my wife’s idea of how she would like to be treated etc. I rarely mention it because my wife is nearly always around when I speak to Mum and we are forbidden from mentioning her, despite her jealousy that “everything is about the kids”. My Mum knows how futile her efforts are and I wonder if she had somewhat stopped bothering. I have tried to explain that my wife’s bpd is the cause of her endless dissatisfaction with everything, and she’s like, “what’s the point in trying to please her then?” Lol. She just doesn’t get it. But let’s not forget, she’s the sane one here.

You made a very good point about the dog situation too. I think you are exactly right. Also my mother was right anyway, we desperately wanted to save our dog but he is around 12 years old (rescue so we’re not certain), but I’m not fully convinced that the surgery would have been a good idea as he would have suffered lots. He is so resilient and joyful. I still have so much to learn from him.

Honestly, you are right that I have chosen my wife over my mother here. I know that Mum understands because I remember before I met my wife we spoke of my brother’s wife and how she is controlling and he does what she says to keep the peace. 2023 our children were used to lots of shouting and knew my wife was very angry with me though they didn’t understand why. They are older now and so much more aware. So I am trying to protect them and in a way it is them I am choosing rather than my wife.

I don’t know how I convinced my wife last time, I know not Wendy that you have supported me through this a couple of times but it has ultimately still been my wife’s decision in the end each time. I have expressed that I am heart-broken at the thought that my mother could pass away and I would feel so guilty that I allowed this to happen (not that I know how to stop it other than being willing to lose my marriage over it, ripping the family apart and breaking my children’s hearts). She isn’t bothered by my feelings and she says, “Why should I care about your feelings when you don’t care about mine?”

[Notwendy]

For reference- As an adult, I was in the position of your mother with my parents- but it wasn't just me. My BPD mother also did this with other people. She was very fearful we'd "talk" about her and so would listen in on our phone calls and read his emails.

If your mother had been abusive, I think it makes sense to have boundaries on the cotact with your children. But she hasn't and it's been the opposite- she has been financially generous with you and your wife. I don;t know why it is that both of her children ended up in controlling relationships- but it seems your mother hasn't done anything so objectionable as to deserve how she's been treated.

From the position of where your mother is in your dynamics, I can say there's a difference between being understanding and how you or your mother are feeling. Surely you care about her feelings and the relationship. I believe my father cared about me. But ultimately he chose his wife's feelings over his, and mine, and anyone else's and I think in your situation this is your choice too. So if you are feeling hurt, and your mother is- that's doen't factor in. The action is the same. Your mother is separated on the basis of your wife's feelings. Not yours, not hers, not the childrens'.

You've seen how approaching your wife on the basis of how you feel or how your mother feels works. It doesn't. Your wife is focused on her feelings. You are focused on your wife's feelings. If you approach her on the basis of either you or your mother feeling hurt- that is victim position on the Karpman triangle. Your wife is already in victim position. She isn't going to see it this way.

I recall when my father passed away, trying to appeal to my mother on the basis of feelings for some understanding. I said "I just lost a father". Her reply "Well I just lost a husband". Yes, I understand, that is difficult, it had to be very difficult for her. However, this understanding is not reciprocal. If a pwBPD  has difficulty managing their own feelings, they aren't able to manage any other feelings.

I think it is possible to reduce drama in a relationship, gain boundaries and improve relationships to an extent. This is the focus of the improving board. What to do in these relationships is an individual choice. Your choice has been to stay and make the relationship your priority. These tools can help the poster in their part of the dynamics. They aren't a treatment for the pwBPD. The pwBPD will still have their feelings and behavior unless they were in therapy for that.

IMHO, you won't achieve a change by appealing to your wife on the basis of your or your mother's feelings. It would take an action decision on your part. It would take not buying into your wife's feelings that your mother hasn't been nice enough to her. You know that isn't true. From what it sounds, it seems your mother has been very generous and accommodating. Your kids have two parents but you've put this decision completely in your wife's control.

Changing the situation for you and your mother will require being able to stand up for your wishes, which I agree would be a challenge. For your mother, she knows you made your choices but also, I hope you can extend some understanding to her.  She may not be willing to finance a situation that is also hurtful to her.

[Notwendy]

The irony of the situation, which is similar to the dynamics in the family- is that my BPD mother was completely dependent on my father, as your wife is dependent on you. Yet, my mother and your wife, hold the power in the relationship.

In a similar manner, I recall my parents arguing- and these were intense, with BPD mother's behavior escalating. I think my father also decided to give in a lot- to keep the peace and also probably to spare us kids from their conflicts. But giving in also has a cost to it.

Still, even my mother understands firm boundaries and I think your wife does too. She may test them, but I think where you were able to achive some autonomy was when you were less fearful of losing the relationship. I don't mean by threatening this with your wife, or even bringing it up in discussion. That would be manipulative and damaging. It also doesn't mean making any moves to actually leave if you don't want to do that. It's an internal shift where you have less fear of that. It is "I want my children to have a relationship with my parents more than I fear my wife ending the relationship".

It's a scary step because it put the choice in your wife's hands rather than yours. You have a sense of safety "as long as I don't rock the boat with this request, my wife won't react". You choose your feeling of safety over your feelings and your mother's feelings about her not seeing your kids". If you change this stance- you will be choosing the other way. Your wife then will react as she chooses.

You already have some hard boundaries. One is your job. Without your job there's no money. Your wife on some level understands that if she likes the support, you need to keep your job. The "my children will see my mother" may also give her the choice- do you like having a wife who works and takes care of your needs or do you want to rock this boat?".

Now, you know there will be an extinction burst you will need to stay firm with, and so you should not make this change if you aren't up to dealing with it.  I think if you do say you will bring the kids to see your mother- she's welcome to come or not- she will go. You and the kids being alone with your parents is probably more of a threat to her.

[Notwendy]

And oddly - I still use the present tense when discussing my mother but she’s passed a few months ago and I’m still processing that. But it’s good to know that by sharing the experiences with her that it helps others.

[CC43]

Hi there,

Might there be a way to take the kids to see Grandma on her turf?  Since she’s elderly, could you stay in a hotel near her home?  Your spouse could stay home and get some alone time, and she wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in her own home. The kids could see Grandma. And you all would get a little vacation. Would that work?

Another variation would be to allow the oldest kid(s) to stay or sleep over at Grandma’s, understanding that an older child might be less disruptive. Sometimes it’s nice for kids to get one-on-one attention, to feel like an individual and not always a sibling. Then you might stay with the younger ones in a hotel. How does that sound? 

[Anonymous22]

Hi!  I have been through similar with my uBPDh.  My parents would come to town and of course would want to see the kids.  I would set up plans with my parents to take the kids to breakfast or an outing or to see their cousins, etc.  My H went through a period of time where he would not allow my youngest 2 (our kids) or his daughter (my stepdaughter) to go as he said that "my parents didn't care about those kids, they only cared about my oldest 2 kids", whose father has passed away.  The kids that were not allowed to go would always cry and be upset that they couldn't go, he would always run off with them and buy them all sorts of stuff that was noticeable to the other 2 kids when they got home (but mind you he wouldn't pay the bills so this was money he didn't have), but still, the 3 that were made to stay were upset.  As a result, he got what he wanted...my oldest 2 are very close to my parents and the other 3 are not as close to them.  I have made a pretty big effort in the last couple of years to switch that around by having my youngest 2 kids facetime with my parents, send texts to them, etc...connect in ways other than actually going with them.  My H got the the point where it all depended on his mood as to his reaction...sometimes he would think that it was a great idea and others not so much!  As long as it didn't result in him telling the kids that they couldn't go, I would go along with whatever plan was made, trying to include him on the plan making, even though he would never respond and would walk away when he would try to bring the parenting accusations at me.  Through this whole time, my H would have no problem accepting financial gifts from my parents or telling me that my parents needed to pay whatever family expenses I couldn't afford (I work part time so I have more time for the kids as he is the bread winner in our house), etc.  I have come to realize that pwBPD need to have always have at least one issue going on...and it usually swings back to the same one over and over until you take a stand on it.  My H is currently not allowed to live with us.  He asks to set a plan to hangout with the kids.  I set one up where he sees the kids 2 times a week, we do a family night one night a week and the kids sleep over at his house once a week.  The plan lasted 1 week and then he "forgot" about it (or it became inconvenient for him to entertain kids when working) and a week later said we need to set up a plan for him to see the kids!  This has happened numerous times.  Its his catching point with me right now...he knows how I feel and he knows if he starts in on it, it will hook me.  I don't know, but I wonder if this is the same thing with your wife and your mom.  Would you be able to start with letting the kids connect over the phone with your mom?  And offer to do the same with her mom?     

[Notwendy]

The reasons for this aren't logical- they are based on feelings. So an approach using logic IMHO, won't work. A plan like "I'll take the kids to her, or one kid, or any other situation- this is logical but it doesn't change a feeling.

I don't quite fully understand the feelings- because it isn't logical. I saw that it was a dynamic with my BPD mother. It made no sense to control my father's relationship with me- his own daughter, or his mother, or his siblings or anyone else.

What were the feelings behind this? One main one was fear of "discovery" -fear we'd talk about her. She had the sense we "were on to her" behavior. We, as kids, were not allowed to say anything about her. I think this is why she listened into the phone calls and read emails.

Jealousy. These are not romantic relationships but they are close relationships. Logically, a person can love their parents, their children, siblings and a spouse, but being with other family members is attention on them.

My BPD mother was most controlling with my father. In this situation it's the children- why is this? Your wife even has expressed discomfort when the kids pay attention to you. When a child gets older and becomes more independent- she craves the baby stage. Babies are a form of comfort and they are totally focused on the parent, and the breast feeding relationship is a close one.

Considering that BPD includes emotional immaturity. How does a toddler feel when parents are paying attention to another sibling, or someone else? They act up. They want the attention.

Fear. I would be willing to bet that your wife fears the kids will love grandma. Somehow that will "take away" from their love for her.

IMHO one can't solve a feeling with logic. But your wife could possibly learn that the kids can visit grandma and still come home and still love her too, if she had that experience. The challenge is how to do it. She won't like it. She may act up. But by not ever doing it, she won't see that.

[Notwendy]

Some more thoughts on this. Perhaps it's this insecurity and fear that led to my BPD mother setting up situations (in her feelings) where my father had to choose between her and someone else, to in a way, "prove" that she was his #1.

Although it wasn't only with females, it was mostly with females. She seemed to see people as being on her side or not her side and my father would be in the position to choose her side.

So if he wanted to see his family/friends/colleagues and she found some reason to object- he'd have to choose her feelings.

It reminds me of your wife's reaction to the co-worker with red hair. Somehow that triggered her feelings. It isn't logical. The co-worker may have no interest in you and you aren't interested either.

Your wife wants to be exclusive with the children. She's the only one who gets to love them (she allows you because you are their parent- she can't stop that) and she also wants to be the only one they love. Grandma is going to love all over those kids and they will love her back. For an emotionally healthy parent- having loving grandparents is a plus. But not to someone who feels fearful or jealous.

It may be that your wife will have trouble tolerating grandma and her kids together. But it is hard for you to see them being restricted from this relationship and that is important too.

[thankful person]

Ok I am determined to take action, I am just trying to work out the best way to go about this. I know there is so much overthinking involved and I feel there has to be, we have to plan in advance for all possibilities, to be ready with the best response. I know I can’t “get it right” to an extent. I’m just wondering what to do.

I have started the process kind of but not really. This evening my Mum and Dad met our 5 month old baby via video call :D As my wife has been breast feeding since birth then I’ve not had the chance but she has always been holding him when I’ve called them and never wants herself or baby to be on screen. Anyway she had gone to have her hair done. I had been thinking for some time how to ask permission to show my parents the baby. Thank you all for reminding me I don’t need her permission. I told her that I’d called my parents but did not mention them meeting the baby and she didn’t ask. Also tomorrow is VE Day, a commemoration day for the end of the war, and I’m planning on playing some songs for that on my piano at nursery, again my wife will hate this but I think it’s an important step to take.

However… I really don’t know what to do. Visiting my parents is out of the question. They live hours away. And since we moved here my wife has never agreed to it. What I mean is that what she has agreed to in the past is having my mother visit the children In our house but stay in a hotel and my wife has always been present for the visits. So I think that’s the safest bet for what might work best, despite w feeling “uncomfortable” I.e. not liking seeing Granny and the children getting along so well… I don’t think for a minute she would choose to go out to avoid the situation and my mother… but I think if she did then she would most definitely take the baby.

But my question is… how do I arrange this? It is the perfect time to do so. During May we are spending all weekends at our caravan. But during June and July we are renting it out so will be around at weekends. So my mother could visit in June or July and we have a few weeks to plan it. I think I get stuck because, one mantra I used to have when I first joined bpd fam was “act as a “normal” person would “. But it would go like this:
Normal person: babe when would be a good time to have my mother round to visit us and the kids?
Pwbpd: never. Not happening. She doesn’t care about me and makes me uncomfortable.

End of conversation. I don’t know if a “normal person” would ask in this way. It seems right to me to ask your partner’s thoughts. But the other possibility is challenging too. Suppose I was to ask my mother, would you like to come and see us one weekend in June or July? These visits have always been put in the hands of my wife because she seemed to like having the control and responsibility and I didn’t mind because I was getting what I wanted out of it… So if I went directly to Mum there would be three outcomes: she would ask whether she is welcome here (whether w is happy about it) because she knows a bit about not being welcome; Mum says no because weekends aren’t good for Dad's care; or Mum just says yes ignoring the fact that she wasn’t welcome before, and we pick a date. What and when would I discuss this with my wife?

It’s all very scary even after all these years. I will feel I should say, I know you’re not going to like this/you’re going to be upset, and I’m sorry. It is very worrying to me the idea of inviting Mum up and not letting her know it’s against my wife’s wishes. It very much worries me that she could choose to remove all the kids so that Mum can’t see them…

[Notwendy]

How much is your mother aware of the issues? I think it would help to be honest with her- not venting or triangulating, but to say your wife has a difficult time "sharing" love of her children. That this isn't about your mother, or anything she has done, but to caution her this is a delicate situation  and it's important she doesn't show any anger or upset with your wife or react emotionally if your wife gets upset during the visit. Assure her it isn't about her but your wife feeling insecure. Let her know you really do want her to see the kids and enlist her in coming up with a solution.

I think it works better if your parents come to you. I doubt you would get cooperation from your wife for the trip and also expect her to act up, possibly sabotage travel plans as her anxiety increases. If your parents are travelling that is less dependent on your wife. If only your mother can make the trip- then work with her on a time and day that works for her and your Dad's care. Maybe you can take a half day at work if you can't do a whole day off. Or have it on a school holiday.

I think your parents should stay in a hotel. Not because they aren't welcome but due to space and disruption of your regular routines to have extra visitors in the house. I decided at one point to not stay with my parents when I visited, even though there was room in their house. At first, it was to protect myself as I needed some emotional space from BPD mother, but then, I did stay with her one time later to see if it worked and realized, she was used to her space and her control and having someone in her home felt disruptive to her.

Same with my parents. We have a guest room and I wanted my parents to stay when they visited (before I was aware of BPD) in hopes that it would work out. But half way through the visit, my parents got angry and moved to a hotel. I was upset, wondering what I did or didn't do- the room was comfortable, private, I fixed the meals.  I think it was that BPD mother needed her space, her control, and her routine. So they didn't stay with us after that.

Also, if they expect to stay with you, your wife may "change her mind" or be more stressed about it. A hotel reservation is entirely their control and their space and not dependent on your wife.

Which then comes to another strategy- put as little as possible in your wife's responsibility. I once arranged a nice get together for my BPD mother, paid for the food, and had expectations it would be nice. At the last minute, BPD mother got angry at me, said she wouldn't come. She eventually did but having paid for the food, made the plans- I had expectations and was disappointed. I decided after that to not make such kinds of plans that required her to attend at least.

But plan something to do- just don't make it something costly or high hopes in advance. If you are all sitting around trying to chat with the kids acting up- that isn't going to do well. We did better with visits that were shorter, and activity focused. I could then go back to the hotel, and we both had space.  So plan to go to a park together, or some child centered activity for a couple of hours, then kids come home to nap, and parents go back to their hotel to have some time to themselves too.  Plan a picnic lunch, or casual place to eat - as taking small children to a restaurant can be stressful.

While parents are at the hotel, pay attention to your wife. She'll be feeling like the attention isn't on her. Compliment her on how much you appreciate this visit. Before the visit, expect escalation but stay the course.

[thankful person]

Ok so you asked about my mother’s awareness. I have tried to explain about my wife’s bpd and how she needs careful handling. I feel my Mum has always been a similar caretaker figure to my Dad, but she just doesn’t seem to understand about bpd and is not interested. This may seem a bit long winded, but I remember this text exchange between my wife and mum, which my wife shared with me, after bpdw took D4 to see her first pantomime a couple of years ago, it went something like this:

Mum: I hope D4 enjoyed the pantomime!

Wife: Why do you always make everything about the children? Why don’t you care whether I enjoyed the pantomime?

Mum: well I expect you’ve been to lots of pantomimes…

Wife: actually, I have never been to a pantomime before. My parents never took me to any events, holidays, theme parks, shows, farms, museums, parks etc etc. They didn’t help me with reading or homework and they never came to any school events like shows I was in, sports day, parents evening, blah blah blah. You might think everyone has a privileged upbringing with rich parents who want to spend time with their kids and take them places, but not everyone’s as lucky as you and your kids blah blah blah.

My mother did not respond to this last message. I think she feels she doesn’t want to encourage such rants and that discussing such topics merely adds fuel to the fire. I’ve tried to explain about validating but again she’s not interested. My wife felt that this was her way of opening up to Mum and sharing a bit about her past and she just wants Mum to understand her and care about her and was hurt at the non-response. Actually I was disappointed that my mother didn’t express something in response because I actually feel very angry towards my wife’s parents for their lack of interest in her during her childhood.

So anyway, I have two main questions: I’m happy to talk to Mum about the possibility of visiting, I’m assuming I’d do this when my wife wasn’t listening. She’s always around when I speak to my Mum and except when I’m working she still phones me all the time we’re not together. The other thing I could do would be text it. It’s an interesting option because as you know she checks my phone, so idk if that might be a good way for her to learn of my intentions, to read such a message like, “I was wondering if you might me available to come and visit one weekend during June or July? Let me know what might work for you?” Mum always stays in a hotel so she would understand that. I’m nervous though because it almost sounds like I’m speaking of her visiting me but not mentioning the kids. My Dad is sadly too sick to travel, I hope to go and see him soon but that’s also difficult.

What do you think is the best way for my wife to learn of my plans? What on earth would I say and also when because our life is so hectic there’s never a good time and we barely get two mins to speak to each other. Would I say something like, “I’ve been speaking to Mum about when she’d be able to visit in the next couple of months, does it make any difference to you when she comes? Obviously she would stay in a hotel as usual…” When would I mention my intentions for Mum to see the kids? My wife might say something like, “your mum can stay in a hotel in our town but I don’t want her in our house and I don’t want the kids to see her. It’s not happening.” How would I best respond?

Interestingly, following on from my wife not asking whether baby saw his grandparents on FaceTime, she did not ask me whether I played the piano at nursery today (I had told her my intentions this morning). So I’m hoping this is practising some kind of quiet acceptance.

[thankful person]

. Famous last words as they as I’ve just been reprimanded this morning for FaceTiming with baby as she doesn’t like him on camera, and she accused me of ringing my parents as soon as she went out.i pointed out that it’s my usual evening for doing this and she’s like, “not when I’m not here though”. Because she likes to be there when I ring them. This was a good boundary to test the waters. Still not sure what to do though.

[Notwendy]

You take action and let her react as she chooses to. These are your children too. You do not need permission to face time with the baby. You just do it.

She's not your mother and you aren't a child. So her "reprimanding" you for doing something that is well within your right to do- you don't have to "mind" her. If she escalates ( tantrums) she does.  This is like a kid wanting cookies for supper. Of course they are going to tantrum until they learn better.

The response to your mother's asking about the play - I can see why she didn't respond. If I didn't understand about BPD, I'd be taken aback and not know what to say. She may not have been ignoring her but had been at a loss for words. It showed a lot about how your wife processes.

First question- how did D4 like the show? That's a lighthearted question. It's like "how was dinner" . It's a conversation starter. When people ask this- it's expected to get a response that is equal in emotional temperature- something like "Oh she did. She really liked the mouse character". Then, the conversation may continue "Oh it sounds lovely, so glad she did. It must have been a good time for all of you".

Instead, your wife somehow is triggged that she asked about the child and not her but your mother didn't expect that because this isn't the way people who aren't triggered by this question respond. Your mother, taken aback, said something to the extent of "I assumed the point of the show was for the kids" but it came out as "I assumed you had seen one" Because the context she's thinking is parents are taking kids to a fun family show. Not the parents choosing to do this for them, like on a date".

Then, your wife responds with emotionally heavy information about her childhood neglect. This is her trauma coming out. But it's completely unexpected in this kind of conversation and also reflects poor boundaries. This came out of the blue for your mother. My best guess is that she didn't know how to respond or wasn't sure what to say, or was being cautious to say nothing as her other statements were not interpreted as she intended.

On your wife's part, she turned the conversation about the child on to her, and her feelings and her neglect and how she didn't get to go to the play her child did. Basically made the conversation about her.

My best guess is that your wife - who has a history of childhood trauma- is looking to others to soothe and fix it for her. But we can't fix other people's feelings. In that moment, your wife was speaking as the hurt, neglected child, possibly looking to your mother to soothe her feelings. Your mother had no idea this was going on. In her mind, it's not usual to be soothing a grown adult who is acting like this. When she didn't know what to say, your wife projected that hurt and neglect on to your mother "Your mother isn't nice to me" as if it were her mother. But your mother has no idea and she's innocent here and probably confused as to what is going on.

 

[Notwendy]

For the mother visit. Make a plan but expect that anything can happen. However, like learning anything new, sometimes it doesn't go perfectly but in time gets better with practice.

When I plan a family get together, one principle is to not put BPD mother in charge of any aspect of it. This includes her property. I do not expect to drive her car. I do not expect to do anything in her house. This way, these plans aren't in her hands and dependent on her feelings.

Do this logically. First ask your mother if she can visit and ask her for some dates that work for her. Ask her for a couple of choices. No point in bringing this up to wife if there isn't a possible plan in place.

Talk to your mother on your own while at work. You are an adult, and you can talk to your mother without your wife supervising. That she even does that is a boundary issue. You can have your own relationship with your own mother.

Arrange to meet somewhere in public. It is less likely that my mother would act up in public and around other people. Plan to meet at a playground,  or Zoo, or park- whatever the kids may find fun. Pack a picnic lunch or go to a family friendly restaurant where the kids can run around.

My BPD mother also didn't like having people in her house. I think it's about feeling safe and in control. One of her family members mentioned that they thought it was odd that she never invited them over. They thought my parents were snubbing them. Once I did plan to invite people over to my parents' house to see my father, who was too ill to go out at the time. I ran that by my mother, and while she didn't object, as the day progressed, she got more anxious and controlling and out of control. Even if she did the inviting at times, I could see her get anxious as the time for the visitors approached, worrying about every detail of the food, how things looked.

Visits went better when family didn't stay at the house and any plans to meet were made outside the house.

Once you have a tentative plan in place, then you sit down with your wife. Talk about things from your perspective. "I love you and also, I care about my parents who are getting older and haven't met the kids. I want to make a plan for my mother to visit on this date. She will stay in a hotel and can meet us at the park. I'd love for you and the kids to be there".

"But what about my feelings, you aren't thinking of me!!!" We can plan something for us together too but I want to see my mother and also have her see the kids"

"But she can't come to the house" I understand that you don't want her at the house. She will stay at a hotel and meet us at the park".

Expect escalation, just hold your boundary down. It's unlikely your wife is going to embarrass herself too much in front of your mother. If she does, so what. Your mother already probably thinks there are issues. Don't hide this, don't smooth it over. Your wife is who she is. Your mother really just wants to see the kids however that is arranged.