So much guilt for going NC

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi everybody, firstly thanks for all you've contributed to this forum, it's helped me for years. In some cases it has literally helped me stay alive. I've always been afraid my family would see if I posted here and there'd be terrible retribution, but I'm deciding today to just try and interact. This is my first post.

My family for at least 3 generations has undergone a lot of severe trauma. We've all come out of it with so much internalized disorder and deeply unhealthy relationship dynamics. My mom is very clearly uBPD, among other things. Her behaviors are the ones you're unfortunately familiar with: raging, physical abuse, verbal abuse, fear-based attempts to control me. The one that hurt the most was actually the gaslighting, denying she'd ever done anything wrong in the first place.

A few years ago, I just knew I needed to get distance from her and messily expressed I was going NC. I have severe difficulties with verbal expression, and I also thought it would be temporary, like a month, and when I went to tell her it was just a huge mess. Her reactions are what you'd expect, and each time she invaded my space trying to get me to react to her, it reset the clock for how much time I felt I needed away from her. I still haven't been in contact with her.

When I write out her behaviors, it's like: yeah, of course I had to get away from her, I I have to focus on my own health. But writing it is so different from living it. She was kind and loving too. She genuinely believed she's been doing her best for me. She gave me a lot of good things in life. I love her so much and see so much that's good about her. She just is unwilling or unable to change her hurtful behaviors.

I eventually stopped hearing from or went NC with every other member of my FOO because of this. The passive enablers I just stopped hearing from. By the active ones I was told I need to get back in touch with her, work it out, stop overreacting, etc. Interactions degenerated into ultimatums: be in touch with her, do my original family role, and they'd still be in touch with me. I'm not willing to get hurt anymore. So I eventually lost all of those relationships.

But I feel so much love for them too. Now it's like I've lost them all.

Outside of FOO matters, my life circumstances and mental health have objectively improved since going NC. I've been able to do a lot of healing. But I feel miserable every day. I feel guilt and shame every day. I ruminate every day trying to find that one golden solution that will end this painful period.

I keep trying to figure out what I can do to fix everything. I keep thinking: How can I be in her life and not get hurt by her? How can I get back into my family but without participating in the enmeshment and unhealthy dynamics?

Is there a real answer to this question? Can I actually work this out? Or maybe is this some kind of denial or grief or what? Do you see something in this that I don't see? If you've been through this I would really like to know what got you through.

Thanks for reading, and your input is appreciated.

[peachpie]

Hi everybody, firstly thanks for all you've contributed to this forum, it's helped me for years. In some cases it has literally helped me stay alive. I've always been afraid my family would see if I posted here and there'd be terrible retribution, but I'm deciding today to just try and interact. This is my first post.

My family for at least 3 generations has undergone a lot of severe trauma. We've all come out of it with so much internalized disorder and deeply unhealthy relationship dynamics. My mom is very clearly uBPD, among other things. Her behaviors are the ones you're unfortunately familiar with: raging, physical abuse, verbal abuse, fear-based attempts to control me. The one that hurt the most was actually the gaslighting, denying she'd ever done anything wrong in the first place.

A few years ago, I just knew I needed to get distance from her and messily expressed I was going NC. I have severe difficulties with verbal expression, and I also thought it would be temporary, like a month, and when I went to tell her it was just a huge mess. Her reactions are what you'd expect, and each time she invaded my space trying to get me to react to her, it reset the clock for how much time I felt I needed away from her. I still haven't been in contact with her.

When I write out her behaviors, it's like: yeah, of course I had to get away from her, I I have to focus on my own health. But writing it is so different from living it. She was kind and loving too. She genuinely believed she's been doing her best for me. She gave me a lot of good things in life. I love her so much and see so much that's good about her. She just is unwilling or unable to change her hurtful behaviors.

I eventually stopped hearing from or went NC with every other member of my FOO because of this. The passive enablers I just stopped hearing from. By the active ones I was told I need to get back in touch with her, work it out, stop overreacting, etc. Interactions degenerated into ultimatums: be in touch with her, do my original family role, and they'd still be in touch with me. I'm not willing to get hurt anymore. So I eventually lost all of those relationships.

But I feel so much love for them too. Now it's like I've lost them all.

Outside of FOO matters, my life circumstances and mental health have objectively improved since going NC. I've been able to do a lot of healing. But I feel miserable every day. I feel guilt and shame every day. I ruminate every day trying to find that one golden solution that will end this painful period.

I keep trying to figure out what I can do to fix everything. I keep thinking: How can I be in her life and not get hurt by her? How can I get back into my family but without participating in the enmeshment and unhealthy dynamics?

Is there a real answer to this question? Can I actually work this out? Or maybe is this some kind of denial or grief or what? Do you see something in this that I don't see? If you've been through this I would really like to know what got you through.

Thanks for reading, and your input is appreciated.

[Notwendy]

My mom is very clearly uBPD, among other things. Her behaviors are the ones you're unfortunately familiar with: raging, physical abuse, verbal abuse, fear-based attempts to control me. The one that hurt the most was actually the gaslighting, denying she'd ever done anything wrong in the first place.

A few years ago, I just knew I needed to get distance from her and messily expressed I was going NC. I have severe difficulties with verbal expression, and I also thought it would be temporary, like a month, and when I went to tell her it was just a huge mess. Her reactions are what you'd expect, and each time she invaded my space trying to get me to react to her, it reset the clock for how much time I felt I needed away from her. I still haven't been in contact with her.

I eventually stopped hearing from or went NC with every other member of my FOO because of this. The passive enablers I just stopped hearing from. By the active ones I was told I need to get back in touch with her, work it out, stop overreacting, etc. Interactions degenerated into ultimatums: be in touch with her, do my original family role, and they'd still be in touch with me. I'm not willing to get hurt anymore. So I eventually lost all of those relationships.

But I feel so much love for them too. Now it's like I've lost them all.

I ruminate every day trying to find that one golden solution that will end this painful period. I keep trying to figure out what I can do to fix everything. I keep thinking: How can I be in her life and not get hurt by her? How can I get back into my family but without participating in the enmeshment and unhealthy dynamics?

Is there a real answer to this question? Can I actually work this out? Or maybe is this some kind of denial or grief or what? Do you see something in this that I don't see? If you've been through this I would really like to know what got you through.

Thanks for reading, and your input is appreciated.

I can relate to this. My BPD mother's behavior escalated during the time my father passed away. I had boundaries, she reacted to that. Dad and her FOO jumped in as her rescuers. One way she reacts is to tell people to not speak to me. ( and not tell me that she told them) and they complied. (one of her friends told me she did this),

The shock and grief were difficult. I understand the urge to "fix" this but I also don't think this is entirely your task. They are also responsible for the relationship. I think this is a part of how we were raised. FOG- fear, obligation, guilt.

I questioned my relationship with her FOO. Many of them had known me since I was a baby. I valued the relationship- but how is it that they'd just comply with my mother's wishes? What did she say to them about me? Did they really believe it? I did have some contact with them over time at family events. I remained cordial and polite.

Is there an answer to your situation? I believe that self care with counseling is that best answer. We can't "fix" another person. We can work on ourselves.  I turned my focus to counseling and 12 step CODA/ACA groups. ACA is helpful for looking at generational patterns. They are similar for BPD and alcohol addiction, so it can help for an adult child of a BPD parent as well.

NC is a self protective plan. A counselor put it in these terms. Not "you are too disordered to have contact with" but "I am not in an emotional place to have contact with you". Maybe that will change one day or maybe you will choose to remain NC but if you need it for your own emotional well being- then it's the choice you make for that.

[zachira]

"I keep trying to figure out what I can do to fix everything. I keep thinking: How can I be in her life and not get hurt by her? How can I get back into my family but without participating in the enmeshment and unhealthy dynamics?"

These are questions, I often ask myself. My mother with BPD is deceased and I was low contact with her in the last years of her life. She was also kind and loving at times, yet very cruel when acting out. I am NC with my sister with NPD and low contact with other family members, most of whom support my sister. All I can tell you, is time will tell what works best for you, in terms of what kind of contact to have with your mother and other family members, And what boundaries to set to not be a part of the unhealthy family dynamics. We do not have to decide all at once what kind of contact to have with disordered family members. With time as you continue to set healthier boundaries, you may find that severely disordered people will not want to be around you and you may not want to be around them either. Currently very few family members and long time family friends, are willing to be nice to me because I have done the unthinkable by setting healthier boundaries, yet I have been pleasantly surprised by the few people who are able to have healthier boundaries with my disordered family members and maintain a respectful relationship with me.

[peachpie]

It matters a lot to me that you both replied, thank you.

It's hard for me to accept that my decisions are for me, rather than a way to fix my mom. After being trained for years as a kid to hold her feelings, to fix her emotional problems, I'm still on the mental treadmill trying to problem solve (not that I can ever actually find a satisfactory solution). I think it might take me some time to try to orient myself towards myself.

I've been seeing NC as self-protective in the "duck and cover" sense, to get temporary distance from her cruelty. But I haven't really considered it in the self-honoring sense you both describe. In the sense of assessing where I'm at emotionally and what I actually want. It's such a foreign idea to me.

[Notwendy]

I think your feelings are normal. If we have been raised to be focused on our mother's feelings and her well being, it's not a comfortable change to also consider our own as well.

I think in a "normal" situation, there's reciprocity. Parents care about their child's well being (at any age). In the beginning, a child is completely dependent on the parent and the parent's role is to meet that child's needs. Parents with PD's tend to see the child as an extention of themselves and that the child should meet their needs.

As the child becomes more independent and mature, the relationship evolves, and while an adult child should treat a parent respectfully- they aren't responsible for the parents' emotions. Eventually, a parent may need assistance and the adult child may be willing to help but there's a balance- the parent still cares about the adult child too.

With my BPD mother, she was overwhelmed with her own emotional needs. That was her focus. She could not, reciprocate with awareness for other people's feelings. It's hard for you to feel your own emotional well being matters, but it does and you are taking steps to take care of yourself. It's just different from your FOO dynamics.

[Methuen]

I have been on this forum for over 5 years.  We have had whole threads about this:

When I write out her behaviors, it's like: yeah, of course I had to get away from her, I I have to focus on my own health. But writing it is so different from living it. She was kind and loving too. She genuinely believed she's been doing her best for me. She gave me a lot of good things in life. I love her so much and see so much that's good about her. She just is unwilling or unable to change her hurtful behaviors.

I shared this very thing with my therapist last week, who pointed out that this is the worst kind of abuse.  If one has a disordered parent who is mean 100% of the time, that is at least predictable, and so the child can know what to expect.  In our case, our mother was split between the good queen and the wicked queen and as we all know, the good queen could split into the wicked queen in a millionth of a second, and this terrified us, and made us susceptible victims to her manipulations.

Outside of FOO matters, my life circumstances and mental health have objectively improved since going NC. I've been able to do a lot of healing. But I feel miserable every day. I feel guilt and shame every day. I ruminate every day trying to find that one golden solution that will end this painful period.

I keep trying to figure out what I can do to fix everything. I keep thinking: How can I be in her life and not get hurt by her? How can I get back into my family but without participating in the enmeshment and unhealthy dynamics?

We were groomed to be their fixers and feel that was our duty.  We cannot fix the problems and conflicts coming from the chaos of a person that doesn't want to be fixed.

If you are in her life, she is going to hurt you.  I am still in my mom's life (she's 89) and she manages to hurt me every time I see her.  To go deeper, not having a healthy relationship with her hurts.  But you can't have a healthy relationship with a disordered person who doesn't have insight or a desire to grow internally.

How to get back into your family?  I can't answer that because I don't have a family.  I was an only child, and the descendents of my mom's disordered siblings all live a thousand miles away and are disordered themselves.  I am an island.  And I have decided I have to be ok with that.

This "pull" that you are feeling, that is a trap I believe.

Perhaps the key is to focus on you.  Your health.  Your mental health.  You say your life circumstances and mental health have improved.  Perhaps that is your goalpost.  Resist the temptation to rejoin the fold of disordered family members to "belong" again.  Unless you have very strong strategies and a support network to help you navigate that.

I documented her behaviors.  For the reason you are describing - so that I could never minimize the "pull" you describe.  Whenever I start to feel weak, I listen to those recording and reread some notes, to give me strength to keep my boundaries again.  Despite their horribleness and gaslighting.  Lest we forget.

[Notwendy]

Methuen- did you go NC now that your mother is in AL?

During discussions, when my BPD mother mentioned wanting to move near me, I would panic. I would have difficulty sleeping. Even my H would say he'd not agree to that as he saw these reactions and her behavior.

Telling her I could not have handled this if she did move near me would anger her- and I think this played a part in our relationship- she was angry about it. However there was no attempt on her part to try to reconcile the situation. It was a demand to obey.

When it became clear that she needed assisted living, she would refuse to consider the ones near her. She would only consider the ones near me and even contacted some of them for information without my knowing about this. I decided that, if she moved near me, I would have to go NC with her.

She only agreed to go to an AL near her when it was a crisis situation and she had to do it.

The only reason I could remain LC with her is that she didn't live near me. I believe that if I were in your situation- I would have had to be NC with her. Even at LC- her needs were huge- she'd call her caretakers, and the staff constantly. I would have to turn my phone off at night to be able to sleep.

It's hard to not feel sad and guilty for going NC. Even at LC I felt that. I am posting in solidarity and support. Distance was a boundary for me. Without this boundary, I think NC would have been my decision too.

I am glad you are taking care of yourself. You deserve it!

[zachira]

Sometimes we have to go NC to be able to heal, otherwise we live in fear and pain for when the next round of abuse will begin. This seems to be especially true when it is our mother who is the ringleader of the abuse. Our core sense of self comes from having a loving caretaker when we are young. We can improve the core sense of self through making healthier relationships with ourselves and others while continuing to grieve the painful
losses of never having a loving mother and the family members who enabled her. I constantly see ways in which I am happier now though will always experience moments of extreme grief about all the abuse I have suffered and continue to endure. The difference now, is I am able to access more quickly the reactions and sadness underneath the anger. I was at the optometrist and my whole body was fighting him as he tried to put the eye drops in. I said to him that I was fighting him the first time he tried. He almost gave up, and I insisted that I really wanted the eye exam, which we eventually successfully completed. I am a work in progress not letting the effects of the past and ongoing abuse take over.

[Methuen]

Methuen- did you go NC now that your mother is in AL?

No.  I think I could if my H and S30 and D28 did.  But they can't.  And I don't want them to do it for me.  So I still see her once a week on average, usually on the weekend (when I'm not working).  But the texting and emails and phone calls have stopped because I wasn't responding to them. 

Some of the staff in AL know me, but they don't know her or the dynamic.  So they are often in touch about things she needs.  The most recent is an air conditioner for her room.  They don't provide it.  So tonight we have to go up their and do measurements for a portable unit that vents out the window.

It's going to be a nightmare because she is going to hate the AC.  But her room for some reason is the hottest room in the place in hot weather.  We walked in there one day and the inside temp was 83 degrees F.  Too hot for an 89 yr old with a heart condition.  She's going to wine incessantly about the AC.  But AL told us to get it, so that's what I'm telling her.  If she wants to turn it off, that's on her.

So no, I'm not NC.  But I wish I could be.  She really has sucked joy out of my life, and the burden is intense even though I'm LC, have boundaries and strategies and therapy and have family support and she's now in AL.

[Notwendy]

Some of the staff in AL know me, but they don't know her or the dynamic.  So they are often in touch about things she needs.  The most recent is an air conditioner for her room.  They don't provide it.  So tonight we have to go up their and do measurements for a portable unit that vents out the window.

It's going to be a nightmare because she is going to hate the AC.  But her room for some reason is the hottest room in the place in hot weather.  We walked in there one day and the inside temp was 83 degrees F.  Too hot for an 89 yr old with a heart condition.  She's going to wine incessantly about the AC.  But AL told us to get it, so that's what I'm telling her.  If she wants to turn it off, that's on her.

So no, I'm not NC.  But I wish I could be.  She really has sucked joy out of my life, and the burden is intense even though I'm LC, have boundaries and strategies and therapy and have family support and she's now in AL.

It's an emotional burden, I understand. If I got her anything, I also felt resigned that she'd dislike it. Oddly though, she'd tell other people she appreciated it. People would say "your mother said she's so glad you did.." Mine would mix the complaints with the compliments so I didn't know which one to believe.

With something that is a necessity, it's straightforward to just get it- whether they like it or not. An AC is a big task, but you will feel you did the right thing, no matter what her reaction is. I felt the ambiguity too. I'd send something she needed but also felt discouraged when she'd say she didn't like it.