How real was our relationship really, if she moved on in weeks?

[BeachTree]

Hi Everyone,

I posted a few weeks ago. I’m kind of getting to the realisation that, even though I feel a strong pull, it is probably over forever. Because I don’t think it would be good for my well-being the way things ended, even if she wanted to come back.

What I’m really struggling with, was any of it real?

I would say our relationship overall had much more ups than downs. She could get easily upset & trigger easily sometimes, and would test a fair bit, but it wasn’t too bad and I could deal with that. Mostly she was lovely, but I was always a little on edge because I didn’t know when something might happen.

The real problem for me was the emotional blackmail (including a few suicide threats), pushing sexual reproductive boundaries, and ultimatums & blow ups to force commitments (propose/try for babies). And this wasn’t all the time, maybe every few months something would happen. But the effect is it destroyed my ability to choose freely. These future decision need to be made from a free mutual choice, not under coercion. She never seemed to understand that.

Other than that we worked so well together in daily life. We are very compatible in so many ways, and we had so many amazing great times together. We supported each other through the good and the bad.

There wasn’t really an idealisation/devaluation cycle. She constantly idolised me for years, the “devaluation” was more around us not moving forwards. She would talk me up constantly to me, and friends/family or anyone who would listen. To the outside world, we looked like a great couple. She was a little volatile occasionally, but not often. We were two successful professionals living what seemed to be a good life. No-one would know of the extent of things that happened behind doors.

She seemed extremely committed to me, and she’d make sure I and everyone else knew. She’d constantly thank me and make me feel appreciated. She’d always be very proactive in planning activities and ways to improve the relationship. She would say things like:
-  "You’re the only one for me."
-  "I’m so lucky to have you."
-  "I will never move on."
-  "I wouldn’t want to live if we broke up."
- "If we ever broke up, it would destroy me if you moved on quickly."

When we finally did break up, she said she hoped I came back and was sure we would work if we tried again. She kept pushing for me to come back, putting out all kinds of emotional hooks.

Then in a few weeks she was with another guy, and he moved quickly. She said she still loved me, but we never would have worked. She said that she misses me and is confused, but she really likes this guy. And I can tell she really likes this guy.
This completely destroyed me.

It makes me question:
- Was any of it real at all?
- If it was as real as she claimed, how could she flip to a new partner so quickly?
- Was it all just a strategy to stop me from leaving? Because she couldn’t face being alone?

We shared so many special moments that now feel ruined.
If we had broken up and she had taken time to reflect, then maybe after a while we could have revisited things in a healthier way. Or if she had reflected and then started dating again slowly, that would be okay too, I want her to be happy.

But moving on in this way, so quickly and so completely against everything she ever said, makes me feel like the relationship was never real.

And still, I can’t help wondering about all the “what ifs”.

I’d appreciate any perspectives.

[BeachTree]

Then in a few weeks she was with another guy, and he moved quickly.

I meant to say "he moved in quickly"

[CC43]

Hi there,

A simplistic post mortem on the relationship could be that it didn't work out because you wanted different things.  She wanted full-on commitment in the form of marriage and babies, and you didn't want that yet, for whatever reason.  It could be you felt you were too young to make a commitment like that, or that you didn't know her well enough, or you had some doubts you wanted to clear up first, or that you preferred a lower-key relationship right now, as there was no need to rush, or maybe you weren't ready personally / financially / professionally yet . . . any one of those reasons would be perfectly justified in my opinion.

You ask, was the relationship real?  I'd say the relationship absolutely was real, because you experienced it.  It may feel surprising and painful that your ex seemed to move on so quickly, after such an intense relationship.  If she has BPD, she's emotionally intense, which is part of her allure, at least when things are going well.  Then it's no surprise to me that she leapt into another intense relationship because that's the way she operates.  Some people with BPD can't tolerate being alone, and therefore they tend to move from one intense relationship to another.

If your ex has BPD and was trying to use emotional blackmail, my opinion is that you dodged a bullet.  It's one thing to be transparent about wants and needs, and it's another thing entirely to make grave threats and ultimatums to try to coerce another person into doing something they don't want to do.  In my opinion, suicidal threats (plural in your ex's case) are a red line.  If someone is threatening suicide, I'm calling 911.

[HoratioX]

There's a lot in your post, some or all of which you might talk to a therapist about for professional insight.

But I'll focus on this part:

It makes me question:
- Was any of it real at all?
- If it was as real as she claimed, how could she flip to a new partner so quickly?
- Was it all just a strategy to stop me from leaving? Because she couldn’t face being alone?

By "it," I'm assuming you mean the relationship as opposed to some smaller, specific part of it.

When you're dealing with someone with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.), many of their actions and even emotions are determined by their illness. Most, if not all, of us who've been in relationships with someone with a profound mental illness ask ourselves if anything in the relationship was real.

It's a complex question to answer because it means being able to separate the illness from the actions and emotions. I don't know that that is always possible.

Part of the problem is that to someone with BPD (etc.), emotions can be the same thing as reality. That is, if they feel their partner is cheating, their partner is cheating. If they feel their partner wants to break up with them, their partner is breaking up with them. Never mind that cheating or a break up never happened. To them, merely feeling it is the same thing.

Their reality is distorted. At the same time, though, they can have periods of lucidity. Their feelings might well be genuine, and their actions rational. But trying to figure out which is which is like trying to separate all the ingredients whirling around in a blender.

So, the short answer to your question is there's no real way to know. Chances are at least some, maybe even most, of their emotions and related behaviors were genuine -- at least insofar as they could have been feeling what they claimed in the moment. But the problem is what they were feeling might have been based on a false reality.

That's why they can flip to a new partner so quickly. Something in that reality told them they were done with one person and now have found their true love or purpose with another, at least until their illness tells them otherwise. That illness might also cause them to do whatever they can to avoid being alone, including jumping right into another relationship.

Perhaps the best way to approach things is not to wonder what was real and what wasn't. Ultimately, it doesn't matter unless you're thinking about trying to get back together with them -- and that's pretty much a bad idea.

Instead, focus on yourself and your healing. Move on. Their illness and how it made them act has nothing to do with you, and nothing you could or would have done would have changed their illness. Their treatment of you is not a reflection of your worth or culpability. The only issue now is whether, knowing what you know about their illness, you can walk away.

If you can walk away, then you're healthy, even if you're hurting right now because of the break up. But if you find yourself wanting to get back together with her in light of what you know, that's a good sign to consult with a therapist. Dwelling on what was or wasn't really will only cloud your judgment. When you get past the break up -- as with all break ups including ones with mentally healthy people -- you'll be able to see what happened with clearer sight. And then more answers may come to you or, if not, you won't be asking the questions anymore anyway.

[Under The Bridge]

She said that she misses me and is confused

The 'confused' part would seem to indicate she's not fully decided and leaves the door open for re-connecting. BPD's invariably want to keep ex's as an 'option' should the new partner not work out - the question is, are you willing to jump back into the cycle knowing that you could be back in the same repeating breakup situation again?

In a BPD relationship, what you've had is usually what you'll continue to get, especially if the BPD knows you're willing to keep rejoining the game.

As HoratioX and CC43 said, your relationship was absolutely real - but only for the time she believed it was. Took me a long time to realise that but it still hard for us non-BPD's to understand as we can't switch off instantly once we start caring for someone.

There's nothing you can do at this point but wait and see what happens, then make any decisions if she contacts you again in the future. Remember; none of this is your fault and you didn't cause her condition nor can you control it.

Concentrate on yourself and your own mental and physical well-being. Hard to do I know but it gets easier with time.

[BeachTree]

Hi CC43,

She wanted full-on commitment in the form of marriage and babies, and you didn't want that yet, for whatever reason.

I did want marriage and babies. But from stability and mutual free choice.
I felt I never got free choice, it was generally ultimatums along the line of I want [marriage/babies], if you don't want that by this time then [insert threat].

Now I'm out it really seems so crazy. Embarrassing to tell anyone the full story though. Even then, still feel the pull to go back.

[BeachTree]

Hi HoratioX

Their reality is distorted. At the same time, though, they can have periods of lucidity.

She is able to think clearly much of the time. She's a highly capable successful person. But she needs a lot of support. She is terrified of abandonment and easily reads into things that aren't there and can get very upset & reactive over things that aren't much.

Chances are at least some, maybe even most, of their emotions and related behaviors were genuine -- at least insofar as they could have been feeling what they claimed in the moment.

My guess on reflection it was mostly genuine at the start, then shifted to more control as time went on.
But who knows. How she was at the end really boggles my mind.

Instead, focus on yourself and your healing. Move on. Their illness and how it made them act has nothing to do with you, and nothing you could or would have done would have changed their illness. Their treatment of you is not a reflection of your worth or culpability. The only issue now is whether, knowing what you know about their illness, you can walk away.

If you can walk away, then you're healthy, even if you're hurting right now because of the break up. But if you find yourself wanting to get back together with her in light of what you know, that's a good sign to consult with a therapist. Dwelling on what was or wasn't really will only cloud your judgment. When you get past the break up -- as with all break ups including ones with mentally healthy people -- you'll be able to see what happened with clearer sight. And then more answers may come to you or, if not, you won't be asking the questions anymore anyway.

Very good advice. Still hard. I've walked away but still cycling between anger/rage and intense feelings of wanting to go back.

[BeachTree]

Thanks Under the Bridge,

The 'confused' part would seem to indicate she's not fully decided and leaves the door open for re-connecting.

I think she still loves me, but the new guy saves her from whatever abandonment terror she was feeling and is probably in complete limerence. And yes probably wants to leave me open as an option, or at least feel she hasn't lost that connection.

In a BPD relationship, what you've had is usually what you'll continue to get, especially if the BPD knows you're willing to keep rejoining the game.

It's so frustrating because that (for now at least - who knows how else it might come out later) most of this behaviour is for things I actually want (marriage/kids). But I could only ever do those things from freedom, not emotional blackmail and coercion.

Took me a long time to realise that but it still hard for us non-BPD's to understand as we can't switch off instantly once we start caring for someone.

Yeah, extra hard especially after all the declarations of how broken she would be if we ever broke up. In reality she skipped straight onto the next one. While I'm left broken. Makes it feel like it was more control than genuine.

There's nothing you can do at this point but wait and see what happens, then make any decisions if she contacts you again in the future. Remember; none of this is your fault and you didn't cause her condition nor can you control it.

I felt a lot of it was my fault at the time - until I got out and having some more outside perspectives makes me see how crazy it was.
Still hard to get rid of the idea if I'd been more assertive, set very strong boundaries, maybe it would have been different. But I guess at the end of the day - it would still be there.

Concentrate on yourself and your own mental and physical well-being. Hard to do I know but it gets easier with time.

Good advice!

[HoratioX]

Hi HoratioX
She is able to think clearly much of the time. She's a highly capable successful person. But she needs a lot of support. She is terrified of abandonment and easily reads into things that aren't there and can get very upset & reactive over things that aren't much.
My guess on reflection it was mostly genuine at the start, then shifted to more control as time went on.
But who knows. How she was at the end really boggles my mind.

Very good advice. Still hard. I've walked away but still cycling between anger/rage and intense feelings of wanting to go back.

Something else to keep in mind -- someone with BPD (etc.) can be highly intelligent and think, especially strategically, with great effectiveness. Some are high functioning and can hold down a job or have a thriving career. Some can keep things together long enough to build a relationship, like a marriage, and even have and raise children. The issue for them is mostly one of emotional regulation, not intellectual prowess, combined with the borderline portion, which is the capacity to dislocate from reality, the degrees to which affect their other success.

So, take someone with BPD who is high functioning. They have a job with responsibility and outwardly are polished and organized. They pay their bills. They take care of their homes.  They may have friends and a social life. Inside, though, there is emotional dysregulation and maybe even some breaks from reality -- just not as extreme as you'd expect of someone with deep psychosis or, say, schizophrenia.

So, for example, you get involved with them and for the "honeymoon period," everything is bliss. They are the perfect partner. But inside, they start to have deep and nagging doubts about the relationship which then begin to manifest in counterproductive thoughts and fears.

Maybe one night you come home from a long day at work and kiss them quickly but affectionately on your way to change out of work clothes. It's something you've done many times before, the sort of act couples do everyday with the understanding it's part of their routine and intimacy.

Only she's having those doubts, which by now have manifested into a kind of terror inside. Emotionally, she's in fear -- it might be because she thinks you're going to break up with her. Or maybe she thinks she made a deep mistake. No matter, fear is the emotion she feels. And now she associates that fear with your kissing her and doing so seemingly out of the blue and without asking for permission, even though you've done so hundreds of times before and with the same implicit permission she has to do the same with you -- and which she has.

She is in the phase where she is seeing you in negative light. You're no longer the love of her life. You're a villain. Or maybe not that far -- but you're not the person she was in love with a month, a week, a day, an hour ago.

And that kiss is now an assault.

Not because it was, of course, but because she feels it was, and feelings are reality. Add to that the panic she may be feeling from fear -- or maybe even rage -- and she can be a very dangerous person, just as any fearful or rageful animal can be.

Now, I'm very much oversimplifying for purposes of illustration. I'm not a therapist, and I'm sure any number of therapists would point out faults in what I wrote. Fine. I'm not saying all this to be clinical. I'm saying all this to point out the potential for disaster -- especially if we're fooled by what seems like a person who thinks clearly and rationally when in reality, their emotions are a mess, and those emotions can become their reality. You or I have no idea when that might happen or even how. But the way we get taken advantage of -- whether intended or not -- is by thinking we know what's going on.