How real was our relationship really, if she moved on in weeks?

[BeachTree]

Hi Everyone,

I posted a few weeks ago. I’m kind of getting to the realisation that, even though I feel a strong pull, it is probably over forever. Because I don’t think it would be good for my well-being the way things ended, even if she wanted to come back.

What I’m really struggling with, was any of it real?

I would say our relationship overall had much more ups than downs. She could get easily upset & trigger easily sometimes, and would test a fair bit, but it wasn’t too bad and I could deal with that. Mostly she was lovely, but I was always a little on edge because I didn’t know when something might happen.

The real problem for me was the emotional blackmail (including a few suicide threats), pushing sexual reproductive boundaries, and ultimatums & blow ups to force commitments (propose/try for babies). And this wasn’t all the time, maybe every few months something would happen. But the effect is it destroyed my ability to choose freely. These future decision need to be made from a free mutual choice, not under coercion. She never seemed to understand that.

Other than that we worked so well together in daily life. We are very compatible in so many ways, and we had so many amazing great times together. We supported each other through the good and the bad.

There wasn’t really an idealisation/devaluation cycle. She constantly idolised me for years, the “devaluation” was more around us not moving forwards. She would talk me up constantly to me, and friends/family or anyone who would listen. To the outside world, we looked like a great couple. She was a little volatile occasionally, but not often. We were two successful professionals living what seemed to be a good life. No-one would know of the extent of things that happened behind doors.

She seemed extremely committed to me, and she’d make sure I and everyone else knew. She’d constantly thank me and make me feel appreciated. She’d always be very proactive in planning activities and ways to improve the relationship. She would say things like:
-  "You’re the only one for me."
-  "I’m so lucky to have you."
-  "I will never move on."
-  "I wouldn’t want to live if we broke up."
- "If we ever broke up, it would destroy me if you moved on quickly."

When we finally did break up, she said she hoped I came back and was sure we would work if we tried again. She kept pushing for me to come back, putting out all kinds of emotional hooks.

Then in a few weeks she was with another guy, and he moved quickly. She said she still loved me, but we never would have worked. She said that she misses me and is confused, but she really likes this guy. And I can tell she really likes this guy.
This completely destroyed me.

It makes me question:
- Was any of it real at all?
- If it was as real as she claimed, how could she flip to a new partner so quickly?
- Was it all just a strategy to stop me from leaving? Because she couldn’t face being alone?

We shared so many special moments that now feel ruined.
If we had broken up and she had taken time to reflect, then maybe after a while we could have revisited things in a healthier way. Or if she had reflected and then started dating again slowly, that would be okay too, I want her to be happy.

But moving on in this way, so quickly and so completely against everything she ever said, makes me feel like the relationship was never real.

And still, I can’t help wondering about all the “what ifs”.

I’d appreciate any perspectives.

[BeachTree]

Then in a few weeks she was with another guy, and he moved quickly.

I meant to say "he moved in quickly"

[CC43]

Hi there,

A simplistic post mortem on the relationship could be that it didn't work out because you wanted different things.  She wanted full-on commitment in the form of marriage and babies, and you didn't want that yet, for whatever reason.  It could be you felt you were too young to make a commitment like that, or that you didn't know her well enough, or you had some doubts you wanted to clear up first, or that you preferred a lower-key relationship right now, as there was no need to rush, or maybe you weren't ready personally / financially / professionally yet . . . any one of those reasons would be perfectly justified in my opinion.

You ask, was the relationship real?  I'd say the relationship absolutely was real, because you experienced it.  It may feel surprising and painful that your ex seemed to move on so quickly, after such an intense relationship.  If she has BPD, she's emotionally intense, which is part of her allure, at least when things are going well.  Then it's no surprise to me that she leapt into another intense relationship because that's the way she operates.  Some people with BPD can't tolerate being alone, and therefore they tend to move from one intense relationship to another.

If your ex has BPD and was trying to use emotional blackmail, my opinion is that you dodged a bullet.  It's one thing to be transparent about wants and needs, and it's another thing entirely to make grave threats and ultimatums to try to coerce another person into doing something they don't want to do.  In my opinion, suicidal threats (plural in your ex's case) are a red line.  If someone is threatening suicide, I'm calling 911.

[HoratioX]

There's a lot in your post, some or all of which you might talk to a therapist about for professional insight.

But I'll focus on this part:

It makes me question:
- Was any of it real at all?
- If it was as real as she claimed, how could she flip to a new partner so quickly?
- Was it all just a strategy to stop me from leaving? Because she couldn’t face being alone?

By "it," I'm assuming you mean the relationship as opposed to some smaller, specific part of it.

When you're dealing with someone with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.), many of their actions and even emotions are determined by their illness. Most, if not all, of us who've been in relationships with someone with a profound mental illness ask ourselves if anything in the relationship was real.

It's a complex question to answer because it means being able to separate the illness from the actions and emotions. I don't know that that is always possible.

Part of the problem is that to someone with BPD (etc.), emotions can be the same thing as reality. That is, if they feel their partner is cheating, their partner is cheating. If they feel their partner wants to break up with them, their partner is breaking up with them. Never mind that cheating or a break up never happened. To them, merely feeling it is the same thing.

Their reality is distorted. At the same time, though, they can have periods of lucidity. Their feelings might well be genuine, and their actions rational. But trying to figure out which is which is like trying to separate all the ingredients whirling around in a blender.

So, the short answer to your question is there's no real way to know. Chances are at least some, maybe even most, of their emotions and related behaviors were genuine -- at least insofar as they could have been feeling what they claimed in the moment. But the problem is what they were feeling might have been based on a false reality.

That's why they can flip to a new partner so quickly. Something in that reality told them they were done with one person and now have found their true love or purpose with another, at least until their illness tells them otherwise. That illness might also cause them to do whatever they can to avoid being alone, including jumping right into another relationship.

Perhaps the best way to approach things is not to wonder what was real and what wasn't. Ultimately, it doesn't matter unless you're thinking about trying to get back together with them -- and that's pretty much a bad idea.

Instead, focus on yourself and your healing. Move on. Their illness and how it made them act has nothing to do with you, and nothing you could or would have done would have changed their illness. Their treatment of you is not a reflection of your worth or culpability. The only issue now is whether, knowing what you know about their illness, you can walk away.

If you can walk away, then you're healthy, even if you're hurting right now because of the break up. But if you find yourself wanting to get back together with her in light of what you know, that's a good sign to consult with a therapist. Dwelling on what was or wasn't really will only cloud your judgment. When you get past the break up -- as with all break ups including ones with mentally healthy people -- you'll be able to see what happened with clearer sight. And then more answers may come to you or, if not, you won't be asking the questions anymore anyway.

[Under The Bridge]

She said that she misses me and is confused

The 'confused' part would seem to indicate she's not fully decided and leaves the door open for re-connecting. BPD's invariably want to keep ex's as an 'option' should the new partner not work out - the question is, are you willing to jump back into the cycle knowing that you could be back in the same repeating breakup situation again?

In a BPD relationship, what you've had is usually what you'll continue to get, especially if the BPD knows you're willing to keep rejoining the game.

As HoratioX and CC43 said, your relationship was absolutely real - but only for the time she believed it was. Took me a long time to realise that but it still hard for us non-BPD's to understand as we can't switch off instantly once we start caring for someone.

There's nothing you can do at this point but wait and see what happens, then make any decisions if she contacts you again in the future. Remember; none of this is your fault and you didn't cause her condition nor can you control it.

Concentrate on yourself and your own mental and physical well-being. Hard to do I know but it gets easier with time.

[BeachTree]

Hi CC43,

She wanted full-on commitment in the form of marriage and babies, and you didn't want that yet, for whatever reason.

I did want marriage and babies. But from stability and mutual free choice.
I felt I never got free choice, it was generally ultimatums along the line of I want [marriage/babies], if you don't want that by this time then [insert threat].

Now I'm out it really seems so crazy. Embarrassing to tell anyone the full story though. Even then, still feel the pull to go back.

[BeachTree]

Hi HoratioX

Their reality is distorted. At the same time, though, they can have periods of lucidity.

She is able to think clearly much of the time. She's a highly capable successful person. But she needs a lot of support. She is terrified of abandonment and easily reads into things that aren't there and can get very upset & reactive over things that aren't much.

Chances are at least some, maybe even most, of their emotions and related behaviors were genuine -- at least insofar as they could have been feeling what they claimed in the moment.

My guess on reflection it was mostly genuine at the start, then shifted to more control as time went on.
But who knows. How she was at the end really boggles my mind.

Instead, focus on yourself and your healing. Move on. Their illness and how it made them act has nothing to do with you, and nothing you could or would have done would have changed their illness. Their treatment of you is not a reflection of your worth or culpability. The only issue now is whether, knowing what you know about their illness, you can walk away.

If you can walk away, then you're healthy, even if you're hurting right now because of the break up. But if you find yourself wanting to get back together with her in light of what you know, that's a good sign to consult with a therapist. Dwelling on what was or wasn't really will only cloud your judgment. When you get past the break up -- as with all break ups including ones with mentally healthy people -- you'll be able to see what happened with clearer sight. And then more answers may come to you or, if not, you won't be asking the questions anymore anyway.

Very good advice. Still hard. I've walked away but still cycling between anger/rage and intense feelings of wanting to go back.

[BeachTree]

Thanks Under the Bridge,

The 'confused' part would seem to indicate she's not fully decided and leaves the door open for re-connecting.

I think she still loves me, but the new guy saves her from whatever abandonment terror she was feeling and is probably in complete limerence. And yes probably wants to leave me open as an option, or at least feel she hasn't lost that connection.

In a BPD relationship, what you've had is usually what you'll continue to get, especially if the BPD knows you're willing to keep rejoining the game.

It's so frustrating because that (for now at least - who knows how else it might come out later) most of this behaviour is for things I actually want (marriage/kids). But I could only ever do those things from freedom, not emotional blackmail and coercion.

Took me a long time to realise that but it still hard for us non-BPD's to understand as we can't switch off instantly once we start caring for someone.

Yeah, extra hard especially after all the declarations of how broken she would be if we ever broke up. In reality she skipped straight onto the next one. While I'm left broken. Makes it feel like it was more control than genuine.

There's nothing you can do at this point but wait and see what happens, then make any decisions if she contacts you again in the future. Remember; none of this is your fault and you didn't cause her condition nor can you control it.

I felt a lot of it was my fault at the time - until I got out and having some more outside perspectives makes me see how crazy it was.
Still hard to get rid of the idea if I'd been more assertive, set very strong boundaries, maybe it would have been different. But I guess at the end of the day - it would still be there.

Concentrate on yourself and your own mental and physical well-being. Hard to do I know but it gets easier with time.

Good advice!

[HoratioX]

Hi HoratioX
She is able to think clearly much of the time. She's a highly capable successful person. But she needs a lot of support. She is terrified of abandonment and easily reads into things that aren't there and can get very upset & reactive over things that aren't much.
My guess on reflection it was mostly genuine at the start, then shifted to more control as time went on.
But who knows. How she was at the end really boggles my mind.

Very good advice. Still hard. I've walked away but still cycling between anger/rage and intense feelings of wanting to go back.

Something else to keep in mind -- someone with BPD (etc.) can be highly intelligent and think, especially strategically, with great effectiveness. Some are high functioning and can hold down a job or have a thriving career. Some can keep things together long enough to build a relationship, like a marriage, and even have and raise children. The issue for them is mostly one of emotional regulation, not intellectual prowess, combined with the borderline portion, which is the capacity to dislocate from reality, the degrees to which affect their other success.

So, take someone with BPD who is high functioning. They have a job with responsibility and outwardly are polished and organized. They pay their bills. They take care of their homes.  They may have friends and a social life. Inside, though, there is emotional dysregulation and maybe even some breaks from reality -- just not as extreme as you'd expect of someone with deep psychosis or, say, schizophrenia.

So, for example, you get involved with them and for the "honeymoon period," everything is bliss. They are the perfect partner. But inside, they start to have deep and nagging doubts about the relationship which then begin to manifest in counterproductive thoughts and fears.

Maybe one night you come home from a long day at work and kiss them quickly but affectionately on your way to change out of work clothes. It's something you've done many times before, the sort of act couples do everyday with the understanding it's part of their routine and intimacy.

Only she's having those doubts, which by now have manifested into a kind of terror inside. Emotionally, she's in fear -- it might be because she thinks you're going to break up with her. Or maybe she thinks she made a deep mistake. No matter, fear is the emotion she feels. And now she associates that fear with your kissing her and doing so seemingly out of the blue and without asking for permission, even though you've done so hundreds of times before and with the same implicit permission she has to do the same with you -- and which she has.

She is in the phase where she is seeing you in negative light. You're no longer the love of her life. You're a villain. Or maybe not that far -- but you're not the person she was in love with a month, a week, a day, an hour ago.

And that kiss is now an assault.

Not because it was, of course, but because she feels it was, and feelings are reality. Add to that the panic she may be feeling from fear -- or maybe even rage -- and she can be a very dangerous person, just as any fearful or rageful animal can be.

Now, I'm very much oversimplifying for purposes of illustration. I'm not a therapist, and I'm sure any number of therapists would point out faults in what I wrote. Fine. I'm not saying all this to be clinical. I'm saying all this to point out the potential for disaster -- especially if we're fooled by what seems like a person who thinks clearly and rationally when in reality, their emotions are a mess, and those emotions can become their reality. You or I have no idea when that might happen or even how. But the way we get taken advantage of -- whether intended or not -- is by thinking we know what's going on.

[Me88]

Something else to keep in mind -- someone with BPD (etc.) can be highly intelligent and think, especially strategically, with great effectiveness. Some are high functioning and can hold down a job or have a thriving career. Some can keep things together long enough to build a relationship, like a marriage, and even have and raise children. The issue for them is mostly one of emotional regulation, not intellectual prowess, combined with the borderline portion, which is the capacity to dislocate from reality, the degrees to which affect their other success.

So, take someone with BPD who is high functioning. They have a job with responsibility and outwardly are polished and organized. They pay their bills. They take care of their homes.  They may have friends and a social life. Inside, though, there is emotional dysregulation and maybe even some breaks from reality -- just not as extreme as you'd expect of someone with deep psychosis or, say, schizophrenia.

So, for example, you get involved with them and for the "honeymoon period," everything is bliss. They are the perfect partner. But inside, they start to have deep and nagging doubts about the relationship which then begin to manifest in counterproductive thoughts and fears.

Maybe one night you come home from a long day at work and kiss them quickly but affectionately on your way to change out of work clothes. It's something you've done many times before, the sort of act couples do everyday with the understanding it's part of their routine and intimacy.

Only she's having those doubts, which by now have manifested into a kind of terror inside. Emotionally, she's in fear -- it might be because she thinks you're going to break up with her. Or maybe she thinks she made a deep mistake. No matter, fear is the emotion she feels. And now she associates that fear with your kissing her and doing so seemingly out of the blue and without asking for permission, even though you've done so hundreds of times before and with the same implicit permission she has to do the same with you -- and which she has.

She is in the phase where she is seeing you in negative light. You're no longer the love of her life. You're a villain. Or maybe not that far -- but you're not the person she was in love with a month, a week, a day, an hour ago.

And that kiss is now an assault.

Not because it was, of course, but because she feels it was, and feelings are reality. Add to that the panic she may be feeling from fear -- or maybe even rage -- and she can be a very dangerous person, just as any fearful or rageful animal can be.

Now, I'm very much oversimplifying for purposes of illustration. I'm not a therapist, and I'm sure any number of therapists would point out faults in what I wrote. Fine. I'm not saying all this to be clinical. I'm saying all this to point out the potential for disaster -- especially if we're fooled by what seems like a person who thinks clearly and rationally when in reality, their emotions are a mess, and those emotions can become their reality. You or I have no idea when that might happen or even how. But the way we get taken advantage of -- whether intended or not -- is by thinking we know what's going on.

what an amazing explanation. I have lived this first hand. To the outside world: fun, friendly, kind, caring, capable, smart...at home, something as simple as that kiss, a deep sigh after a long day, a cup on the counter...RAGE and you are now the enemy only out to destroy them, and they believe it is real. And every good thing you've done is erased in that moment. And they seemingly believe this. Crazy.

[ForeverDad]

It is not uncommon for a person with BPD traits (pwBPD) to quickly move on to another relationship.  And sometimes they do this - abandoning you - before you can, as they perceive it, abandon them.

There's also a possibility that the other may just be placing you onto the back burner to simmer just in case you're wanted later, borrowing a stove top analogy.

In any case, it is not healthy for either you or the other to jump into another relationship so quickly.  That would be a "rebound" relationship.  The reason is that there needs to be enough time for recovery and self-examination before venturing out and seeking some one else.  Recovery is a process, not an event.

[SinisterComplex]

How real was our relationship really, if she moved on in weeks?

So just to chime in here...this question has perhaps been asked more times than maybe any other on here in some form or another.

My take, for one it is impossible to give a definitive answer, but what I can say is that yes the relationship was real and just because she moved on fast doesn't mean it didn't matter. Of course when you are hurting it is hard to have that perspective. I would say the correct perspective to take is to look at it as a sign it probably meant a lot and moving quickly actually is sad because the other person engaging in a relationship with them has no idea what is in store for them. She was and is probably hurt and the fight or flight response defaults to flight and run run run. There is too much shame, guilt, weight to bare so therefore the only way to cope is to move on to a new supply of good happy feelings so the bad feelings do not have to be dealt with.

Its a typical response from a disordered individual...hide from confrontation and focus on only good feelings. Keep in mind there are so many things at play as well...learned behaviors, attachment issues, trauma, etc. It is quite complex.

The best thing for you to do is to accept the relationship is over and for you to not look at it as a failure, but as an experience and take the time out to reflect on it to improve yourself....trust me I know that is easier said than done. In time the pain will get better. Just don't rush yourself.

Take the time to heal, let yourself feel the feelings you are going to feel but also realize they are your feelings and your own responsibility. Control what you can control and strive to grow and get better.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[HoratioX]

what an amazing explanation. I have lived this first hand. To the outside world: fun, friendly, kind, caring, capable, smart...at home, something as simple as that kiss, a deep sigh after a long day, a cup on the counter...RAGE and you are now the enemy only out to destroy them, and they believe it is real. And every good thing you've done is erased in that moment. And they seemingly believe this. Crazy.

Hey, thanks -- as you know, the hardest part of being in any kind of relationship with someone with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.) is you never know what's going on inside their head or heart. Outwardly, they can seem entirely normal (and also sometimes not), but inside, there's a maelstrom of turmoil.

With mine, I answered a question of hers with something positive and completely innocent while we were out. She showed no signs of taking it poorly, and I don't know how she could have because I was sincerely affirming something she had wanted. Totally innocuous situation. At the end of the day, we were intimate and parted temporarily on affectionate terms, as she had to run an errand, planning to meet up again. Everything was great.

But 20 minutes later, she called from her car and said she didn't want to see me anymore because of what I'd said. I'd hurt her feelings terribly, she told me. I was stunned. At first, I had no idea what she was even talking about. When I finally figured it out, I assured her I'd not meant anything negative.

I couldn't for the life of me figure out how she'd been so hurt, but then this was the first time it happened, so I was caught off guard. I didn't yet know what I was dealing with. So, of course, I wondered if I'd said somehow sounded sarcastic (I hadn't) or if I'd misspoken (I hadn't). Maybe I'd accidentally embarrassed her somehow in public but didn't realize it. I searched for a rational answer. I must have done something wrong, right?

Little did I know that this was the first of that sort of 180-degree behavior I'd come to see again in the relationship. Having a great day and then for no apparent reason, everything is a mess. In her head, things were happening that had nothing to do with reality, but outwardly, I usually saw no warning signs.

[Me88]

Hey, thanks -- as you know, the hardest part of being in any kind of relationship with someone with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.) is you never know what's going on inside their head or heart. Outwardly, they can seem entirely normal (and also sometimes not), but inside, there's a maelstrom of turmoil.

With mine, I answered a question of hers with something positive and completely innocent while we were out. She showed no signs of taking it poorly, and I don't know how she could have because I was sincerely affirming something she had wanted. Totally innocuous situation. At the end of the day, we were intimate and parted temporarily on affectionate terms, as she had to run an errand, planning to meet up again. Everything was great.

But 20 minutes later, she called from her car and said she didn't want to see me anymore because of what I'd said. I'd hurt her feelings terribly, she told me. I was stunned. At first, I had no idea what she was even talking about. When I finally figured it out, I assured her I'd not meant anything negative.

I couldn't for the life of me figure out how she'd been so hurt, but then this was the first time it happened, so I was caught off guard. I didn't yet know what I was dealing with. So, of course, I wondered if I'd said somehow sounded sarcastic (I hadn't) or if I'd misspoken (I hadn't). Maybe I'd accidentally embarrassed her somehow in public but didn't realize it. I searched for a rational answer. I must have done something wrong, right?

Little did I know that this was the first of that sort of 180-degree behavior I'd come to see again in the relationship. Having a great day and then for no apparent reason, everything is a mess. In her head, things were happening that had nothing to do with reality, but outwardly, I usually saw no warning signs.

Absolutely, the 180 degree shifts were always so confusing to me. Especially when you've had a good day...or heck, our best was about a month of 'normalcy'; basic disagreements that got sorted out, lots of fun, lots of intimacy, trips, movie nights. Then suddenly in all of the peace...she would just have to explode. And it wasn't ever a gradual buildup. And over time I could see it happening in real time. Something, anything could happen, and the eyes would change, the tone. She'd even warn me at times...'you're frustrating me....' and she'd start breathing heavily and boom! Screaming at me, at the ceiling, finger in my face, cursing, insults and then I would be told how I've never done anything for her, never there for her. Then the 180 back to good. She wouldn't apologize. We'd just gradually hold hands, a small kiss, a hug, sex. Then wake up like nothing happened.

and then...a few days later she'd rehash it all again, and it was all my fault in this revised version and I'd be told I have no accountability and should apologize for made up scenarios. Like I had told her many times 'I have no idea what's going on. Do you really believe these things actually happened? This is like the twilight zone. I'm not going to apologize for something I never said or did'.

I'm guessing multiple mental health prescriptions, bpd, tons of THC daily and occasional drinking didn't help. I never realized how edibles/alcohol effect drug interactions and bpd until I started my research after I left her.