And she's back...

[BeachTree]

I posted on here a few months ago.

Short story. I'd been in a long term relationship with my, most of the time amazing girlfriend. It was the best and by far the worst relationship of my life.
The major problem, was I didn't feel like I had free choice on moving forward in the relationship. Around that topic there were blow ups, threats a few threats of suicide from her, cutting herself (not deeply - but still scary), triangulation (brining in 3rd parties opinions to influence my decisions), reproductive coercion (saying we aren't using condoms after a certain date, throwing out condoms, talking about stealing sperm).
It was too much, we finally broke up in March.

Almost immediately she moved a new guy in. I was devastated, and honestly I pathetically begged for us to get back together. She said no.

Now she has come back. She says:
- She is going to leave the other guy because she realised how much she loves me and never properly grieved me. She wants me to give a yes/no if I would try again.
- Apparently, she no longer meets the criteria for bpd and they think she is autistic with bpd traits? I find it hard to believe, I feel perhaps she's just not in an environment/mindset where she is being set off currently.

I feel perhaps the best thing I could say to her is the truth.
That I'm not closed to us trying. But I'd need her for quite a long time, to be fully single not seeing anyone, stable, working on herself and demonstrating how we could come back together in a healthy way. And even then I'm not sure if I can get over it.
Until then I'll be living my life without her.

Or do I just walk away. If she had worked on herself instead of rebounding, I would have taken her back if we agreed on a plan forward of how things would be different.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Under The Bridge]

She is going to leave the other guy because she realised how much she loves me and never properly grieved me. She wants me to give a yes/no if I would try again.

As she's been with this new guy for a few months now, a more likely reason for her return is that she is now out of the idealisation phase with him, seeing his many flaws - whether real or imagined - and, in BPD fashion, wants a 'fresh start'. So back she comes to her only other option - you.

With BPD, what you've had so far is a good indicator of what you'll continue to get; it would be nice if this was just a one-off incident but BDP runs in repeating cycles, which needs to be considered.

But I'd need her for quite a long time, to be fully single not seeing anyone, stable, working on herself and demonstrating how we could come back together in a healthy way.

That's totally reasonable with a non-BPD partner who's strayed.. but to a BPD who can't control their emotional state from one day to another, sticking to such a serious commitment would be difficult, especially if they don't even accept they have  a problem. You're asking her for logical thought and actions, which her illness does not allow.

You need to ask yourself, based on your time together, if she would be capable of at least making genuine effort. Only you can judge this. If you think she could then by all means give her the chance - but take it slowly and don't build up your expectations.

Best wishes

[ForeverDad]

Bpd is a disorder of the closest of relationships.  People on the periphery may notice something "off" but they don't face the full brunt of the inconsistent yo-yo ups and downs and, call it what it is, the abuse of the relationship.

From a distance she can claim she will return and things will be different, better.  The reality is that she hasn't had time to reflect on herself, her perceptions and her behavior.  Not only that, she's saying she's really not outright Borderline with the known traits.  (That is typical Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.)  Positive change is a massive process, not an event.

Yes, you can get on the roller coaster again but be aware the ride  in circles and cycles will almost surely resume again.

Have you been in sessions with an experienced counselor?  Find one your comfortable with and who has experience and skills.  While we do have an assortment of peer support resources here, boards with book reviews, articles, tools & skills, and much more, the personal sessions are helpful too.

[BeachTree]

As she's been with this new guy for a few months now, a more likely reason for her return is that she is now out of the idealisation phase with him, seeing his many flaws - whether real or imagined - and, in BPD fashion, wants a 'fresh start'. So back she comes to her only other option - you.

With BPD, what you've had so far is a good indicator of what you'll continue to get; it would be nice if this was just a one-off incident but BDP runs in repeating cycles, which needs to be considered.

That's totally reasonable with a non-BPD partner who's strayed.. but to a BPD who can't control their emotional state from one day to another, sticking to such a serious commitment would be difficult, especially if they don't even accept they have  a problem. You're asking her for logical thought and actions, which her illness does not allow.

You need to ask yourself, based on your time together, if she would be capable of at least making genuine effort. Only you can judge this. If you think she could then by all means give her the chance - but take it slowly and don't build up your expectations.

Best wishes

You make a good point. What I need from her, she has shown she is not capable of. And that is really sad.
She is an extremely capable and strong person in most areas of life. But she can't be alone.

And also, I don't know if I could return with any enthusiasm. It would take me a long time I think.

What is also interesting from 1 year onwards she was constantly pushing for a baby. Even often threatening things like getting a sperm donor. Now she says the urge to have a baby is gone.

[BeachTree]

Bpd is a disorder of the closest of relationships.  People on the periphery may notice something "off" but they don't face the full brunt of the inconsistent yo-yo ups and downs and, call it what it is, the abuse of the relationship.

From a distance she can claim she will return and things will be different, better.  The reality is that she hasn't had time to reflect on herself, her perceptions and her behavior.  Not only that, she's saying she's really not outright Borderline with the known traits.  (That is typical Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.)  Positive change is a massive process, not an event.

Yes, you can get on the roller coaster again but be aware the ride  in circles and cycles will almost surely resume again.

Have you been in sessions with an experienced counselor?  Find one your comfortable with and who has experience and skills.  While we do have an assortment of peer support resources here, boards with book reviews, articles, tools & skills, and much more, the personal sessions are helpful too.

I have had so many psychology sessions since being in this relationship!

Yes that's a good point. She claims she's better, but I highly doubt it.

[Pook075]

- She is going to leave the other guy because she realised how much she loves me and never properly grieved me. She wants me to give a yes/no if I would try again.
- Apparently, she no longer meets the criteria for bpd and they think she is autistic with bpd traits? I find it hard to believe, I feel perhaps she's just not in an environment/mindset where she is being set off currently.

Personally, I feel bad for you and just as bad for the new guy.  He didn't deserve this either.  But most of all I feel bad for her because she's her own worst enemy.

People don't "stop meeting the criteria for BPD."  My BPD daughter, who's made massive strides in therapy the past 3 years, still has BPD and still struggles daily.  The difference today is that she knows to second guess some of her compulsions and to slow down her thinking...to see where it came from.  Is my kid better?  Yes times 10!  It she cured?  Heck no!  As I said, she still struggles daily.

Your ex is at a crossroads and in many ways, you are as well.  Talk to her, give her a real chance to work through things.  You owe that to yourself.  But at the same time, don't drink the Kool-aid.  She's currently different because she's trying to win you back, and it's very easy at first since everything is love and affection.  That part tells you nothing other than you're attracted to her.  We already know that though.

Have a few tough conversations with her.  Make it uncomfortable to see how she reacts.  That will tell you if there's any change at all or if this is just another rebound.  For example, you don't want to jump into anything.  Perfect.  Stand your ground and start over...talking, dating, and getting to know her all over again.  That's how you'll know without blindly accepting that this won't happen again.

As a consolation, she is being genuine here...she does want you back.  But she's also mentally ill and there's a chance it doesn't last.  The next steps are completely up to you.

[BeachTree]

Personally, I feel bad for you and just as bad for the new guy.  He didn't deserve this either.  But most of all I feel bad for her because she's her own worst enemy.

People don't "stop meeting the criteria for BPD."  My BPD daughter, who's made massive strides in therapy the past 3 years, still has BPD and still struggles daily.  The difference today is that she knows to second guess some of her compulsions and to slow down her thinking...to see where it came from.  Is my kid better?  Yes times 10!  It she cured?  Heck no!  As I said, she still struggles daily.

Your ex is at a crossroads and in many ways, you are as well.  Talk to her, give her a real chance to work through things.  You owe that to yourself.  But at the same time, don't drink the Kool-aid.  She's currently different because she's trying to win you back, and it's very easy at first since everything is love and affection.  That part tells you nothing other than you're attracted to her.  We already know that though.

Have a few tough conversations with her.  Make it uncomfortable to see how she reacts.  That will tell you if there's any change at all or if this is just another rebound.  For example, you don't want to jump into anything.  Perfect.  Stand your ground and start over...talking, dating, and getting to know her all over again.  That's how you'll know without blindly accepting that this won't happen again.

As a consolation, she is being genuine here...she does want you back.  But she's also mentally ill and there's a chance it doesn't last.  The next steps are completely up to you.

Hi Pook075,

Yes we had the tough conversations. I made it very clear that the only way I could ever consider it is if we were both single and stable. And there are no guarantees. I can't accept jumping from relationship to relationship. I wouldn't accept than from anyone, including her.

The conversations were so tough. I'm surprised how much better I can hold boundaries and see clearly now I have had quite some time out of the relationship.

In the end she accepted it and said she needs to make a decision. I expect I'll here from her again soon...

I do know she genuinely really deeply treasured our relationship. I think I have a pretty good understanding of why she did the things she did. But that doesn't mean I have to accept the things that happened, or take her back.

It is sad, because I also genuinely treasured our relationship. And I feel if she had stayed single, I would have (slowly) taken her back if we both agreed on a mutual plan. But unfortunately in the distressed state she was in, I don't think that was possible.

[Pook075]

Hi Pook075,

Yes we had the tough conversations. I made it very clear that the only way I could ever consider it is if we were both single and stable. And there are no guarantees. I can't accept jumping from relationship to relationship. I wouldn't accept than from anyone, including her.

The conversations were so tough. I'm surprised how much better I can hold boundaries and see clearly now I have had quite some time out of the relationship.

In the end she accepted it and said she needs to make a decision. I expect I'll here from her again soon...

I do know she genuinely really deeply treasured our relationship. I think I have a pretty good understanding of why she did the things she did. But that doesn't mean I have to accept the things that happened, or take her back.

It is sad, because I also genuinely treasured our relationship. And I feel if she had stayed single, I would have (slowly) taken her back if we both agreed on a mutual plan. But unfortunately in the distressed state she was in, I don't think that was possible.

I completely understand and it sounds like you're making wise choices.  Just give it time and see how everything unfolds.  Wishing you luck, my friend.

[Under The Bridge]

In the end she accepted it and said she needs to make a decision. I expect I'll here from her again soon...

Good for you for sticking to boundaries. However, this is the part which would still cause me concern;  the fact that she hasn't made 'the decision' and appears to be stalling and non-commital, still wanting both options of you and the other guy if she can have them. If she was totally sure she wanted you back - as she implies -  the decision would already be made.

Have you given her a timescale to make up her mind and made her aware that you can't - or won't - wait forever?

[BeachTree]

I completely understand and it sounds like you're making wise choices.  Just give it time and see how everything unfolds.  Wishing you luck, my friend.

Thanks Pook075

I think in reality, she will find it too hard to risk being single.
She mentioned that getting into the new relationship helped her avoid dark thoughts, even if it's not really what she wants.
I think it would be the best thing for her if she could handle it, regardless of what path she takes.

[BeachTree]

Good for you for sticking to boundaries. However, this is the part which would still cause me concern;  the fact that she hasn't made 'the decision' and appears to be stalling and non-commital, still wanting both options of you and the other guy if she can have them. If she was totally sure she wanted you back - as she implies -  the decision would already be made.

Have you given her a timescale to make up her mind and made her aware that you can't - or won't - wait forever?

Hi Under the Bridge,

Thanks for your comments

She is not consistent. At first she said she is definitely leaving her new partner, then she said she needs "more than a maybe" from me, because a maybe isn't enough to leave a relationship for...

I think it scares her too much to be on her own. She didn't like that I said she would need to be clearly single for a significant time. I think that's a good filter for me, to prove she is not relying on a partner for her own regulation, and for my own self respect.

I haven't given her a timescale and I'm not giving her any guarantees that I would try again even if she was stable and single. I've just given that to her as a minimum for me to consider it, I can't be a part of her jumping straight back to me, or further talks behind her new partners back.
In the meantime, I'm not waiting. I'm living my life without her.

[Under The Bridge]

In the meantime, I'm not waiting. I'm living my life without her.

Absolutely the right thing to do - you simply can't do any more and the ball is firmly in her court now. The only person you truly have control of is yourself and life must go on. It can take a long time for some of us to realise and accept that, especially as a BPD relationship is unlike any other, with it's intensity.

Get out into the world again.. I often find good things happen when you least expect them

[Pook075]

Thanks Pook075

I think in reality, she will find it too hard to risk being single.
She mentioned that getting into the new relationship helped her avoid dark thoughts, even if it's not really what she wants.
I think it would be the best thing for her if she could handle it, regardless of what path she takes.

And that's the crux of the mental illness.  When something starts to get dark and scary, run to the next thing in pursuit of happiness.  Hang out with that until you're not happy anymore.

The new guy, we don't know him.  But I doubt he's a terrible person or anything like that.  She idolized him at first and now that she sees he's human (imperfect), she's thinking about when things with you were perfect.  It's an endless cycle running to the next thing and it brings them so much pain and heartbreak.  It's very sad and it breaks my heart for them.

The way you "break that cycle" is better communication, affirming her feelings, and making extra time when her mood begins to shift.  If she gets extra love and attention during those times, the fear fades.  If she doesn't, it multiplies and she begins to second guess everything.

Most here fail in these relationships simply because we don't understand what the heck is going on, or why they're acting that way.  But the answer is so obvious- they feel neglected, abandoned, and insecure.  It's the actual criteria for a BPD diagnosis in the first place.  So we lean into those feelings, make them feel loved and appreciated, and the fear goes away.

I wish you (and her) all the luck in the world.  You can make this work, but you'll have to change as much as she will.  Long-term therapy would do wonders for her but that will only happen when she realizes the need inside.  So for now, it's literally up to you to love her differently...to hold back when things suddenly get ugly.  Because in her mind, what she says is true and factual. 

You have to spot those negative thoughts early and give her the tools to overcome it (love, patience, empathy, etc).  In essence, you're becoming her therapy.

[BeachTree]

Absolutely the right thing to do - you simply can't do any more and the ball is firmly in her court now. The only person you truly have control of is yourself and life must go on. It can take a long time for some of us to realise and accept that, especially as a BPD relationship is unlike any other, with it's intensity.

Get out into the world again.. I often find good things happen when you least expect them

Thanks Under The Bridge,

I will find it hard without the intensity she brings. I've become accustomed to it!

[BeachTree]

Hi Pook075,
Thanks for your replies.

And that's the crux of the mental illness.  When something starts to get dark and scary, run to the next thing in pursuit of happiness.  Hang out with that until you're not happy anymore.

That is so scary & sad. And I don't think I will ever fully comprehend. I think she was actually worse than I thought, but I she hid it well, and I minimised things that happened so much while in the relationship.

The way you "break that cycle" is better communication, affirming her feelings, and making extra time when her mood begins to shift.  If she gets extra love and attention during those times, the fear fades.  If she doesn't, it multiplies and she begins to second guess everything.

Most here fail in these relationships simply because we don't understand what the heck is going on, or why they're acting that way.  But the answer is so obvious- they feel neglected, abandoned, and insecure.  It's the actual criteria for a BPD diagnosis in the first place.  So we lean into those feelings, make them feel loved and appreciated, and the fear goes away.

You have to spot those negative thoughts early and give her the tools to overcome it (love, patience, empathy, etc).  In essence, you're becoming her therapy.

I don't think I agree with that approach anymore. Or if that approach is taken, it needs to be done with very strong boundaries. My problem was I was too patient, too empathetic, too understanding of her feelings and pain.
That becomes a caretaker dynamic, where you become responsible for managing their emotions. And I slowly lost myself bit by bit over time.

I wish you (and her) all the luck in the world.  You can make this work, but you'll have to change as much as she will.  Long-term therapy would do wonders for her but that will only happen when she realizes the need inside.  So for now, it's literally up to you to love her differently...to hold back when things suddenly get ugly.  Because in her mind, what she says is true and factual. 

Thankyou so much for your well wishes. I think the most important part on my side is keeping a frame where I'm not over-whelmed so I can see what happened and holding boundaries hard. Too much empathy for her pain at the expense of myself is what got me over years, and I didn't ever realise it.

In summary, what I've learnt is that while that support in a relationship is healthy, taking on the role of regulator isn’t. I can love someone, but it's not healthy to become their therapist.

[Pook075]

I don't think I agree with that approach anymore. Or if that approach is taken, it needs to be done with very strong boundaries. My problem was I was too patient, too empathetic, too understanding of her feelings and pain.

That becomes a caretaker dynamic, where you become responsible for managing their emotions. And I slowly lost myself bit by bit over time.

I did the same thing in my 24 year marriage to a BPD ex and with my BPD daughter as well.  And there is a fine line between loving empathy and accepting abuse.  It's not our jobs to accept abuse and in the long term, it only makes their condition worse.  So I'm not saying to just blindly accept it...that's not a plan and it won't lead to success.

Instead, show the love and empathy when things start to turn south, but outright refuse the abuse as well.  If you're hurting, talk to me and lets work through it together.  But once the blaming starts, let's take a bit of time apart since I don't want to argue.  This could be fifteen minutes or a few hours...it's not punishment.  It's simply time to step away and let the anger pass.

With my BPD kid, I tell her so often, "I love you and I'm always here for you, but you're being unfair right now.  Let's talk again in a little while so this doesn't turn into an argument."  That's not rejecting her and makes my position clear...I'm on her side but at the same time, I'm not going to fight.  Every single time she crosses that boundary, I'll give it a minute to see if she calms down, then I go with my standard statement.

Now if she's upset about someone/something else and ranting, I'll stay in the conversation as long as possible.  That's where this pays dividends, actually being able to talk out tough stuff that BPDs don't trust others with.  So if it's a relationship or a co-worker or whatever, I'm now an ally and that brings us closer.

With my BPD ex-wife, it's a similar relationship.  I still support her mentally at times and I'll talk out things with our kids.  Our relationship is pretty strong because I follow the same rules- show that I care but at the same time, making it clear that abuse is not accepted.  If she gets ugly about the past, I'll say that I did the best I could at the time but we both made mistakes.  If that doesn't shift the conversation, then I find a reason to walk away.  Even at that point though, I'll reaffirm that I care about her and wish her the best...there's just no benefit to arguing because I'm not mad at her.

Make sense?

Again, how you proceed it 100% your decision and you'll receive support here regardless.  I'm just trying to give you a real picture of how these relationships can work with the right balance of love and boundaries.  It takes quite a while to get it right and even then, you'll still lose your cool at times.  But this can work if you want it to work.  Or you could walk away and choose a different path...we'd completely understand that as well.

[hiiumaa]

Hi BeachTree, I just read through your posts here and it answered my question in your other thread. 

I just wanted to say, that I can absolutely understand because what I had with my partner was so similiar. And the others here are right: If you go back - and I did it so often! - the circle repeats.

In the end he couldn‘t live with my boundarieswhen I started to set them ( no abusive behavior accepted anymore. If you behave like that I have to go until you have calmed down ). He argued, that this is not love, this is control and he will not accept control.

And believe me: Every new circle started with lovebombing. „We make a new start now.“ But because he never really reflected himself, nothing changed. The phases became shorter and shorter between lovebombing, devaluation and discard.

The interesting thing is: Sometimes he came up month later and told me his perception and „truth“ about his last break up. And it was the opposite of what he told me while the lovebombing to get me back in.


The only time when he was really able to reflect was, when he was totally drunk. He is bpd/npd with alcohol abuse in phases. Six weeks sober. A trigger. Then one week dropping everything and drinking till breakdown. And in the drinking phases he is able to see his abusive behavior- and he knows, he destroys every friendship and relationship. But as soon as he is sober… back to grandiosity: He never made a mistake.
( When he is drunk it can also be like that, that he becomes extremely abusive - but I just wanted to point out that the alcohol makes it possible for him to reflect, what is sober just impossible. )

[BeachTree]

I did the same thing in my 24 year marriage to a BPD ex and with my BPD daughter as well.  And there is a fine line between loving empathy and accepting abuse.  It's not our jobs to accept abuse and in the long term, it only makes their condition worse.  So I'm not saying to just blindly accept it...that's not a plan and it won't lead to success.

Instead, show the love and empathy when things start to turn south, but outright refuse the abuse as well.  If you're hurting, talk to me and lets work through it together.  But once the blaming starts, let's take a bit of time apart since I don't want to argue.  This could be fifteen minutes or a few hours...it's not punishment.  It's simply time to step away and let the anger pass.

With my BPD kid, I tell her so often, "I love you and I'm always here for you, but you're being unfair right now.  Let's talk again in a little while so this doesn't turn into an argument."  That's not rejecting her and makes my position clear...I'm on her side but at the same time, I'm not going to fight.  Every single time she crosses that boundary, I'll give it a minute to see if she calms down, then I go with my standard statement.

Now if she's upset about someone/something else and ranting, I'll stay in the conversation as long as possible.  That's where this pays dividends, actually being able to talk out tough stuff that BPDs don't trust others with.  So if it's a relationship or a co-worker or whatever, I'm now an ally and that brings us closer.

With my BPD ex-wife, it's a similar relationship.  I still support her mentally at times and I'll talk out things with our kids.  Our relationship is pretty strong because I follow the same rules- show that I care but at the same time, making it clear that abuse is not accepted.  If she gets ugly about the past, I'll say that I did the best I could at the time but we both made mistakes.  If that doesn't shift the conversation, then I find a reason to walk away.  Even at that point though, I'll reaffirm that I care about her and wish her the best...there's just no benefit to arguing because I'm not mad at her.

Make sense?

Again, how you proceed it 100% your decision and you'll receive support here regardless.  I'm just trying to give you a real picture of how these relationships can work with the right balance of love and boundaries.  It takes quite a while to get it right and even then, you'll still lose your cool at times.  But this can work if you want it to work.  Or you could walk away and choose a different path...we'd completely understand that as well.

Hi Pook075,

Thanks for that. It's good to hear your perspective and experience. It sounds like you've done extremely well to adapt and make things work for you.

I don't think I ever lost my cool. It would have been better if I did actually, I was too kind.
She never dealt well with me pausing things if they started getting out of hand. It would wind her up even more, and then spiral/push-harder as she wanted it to be resolved.

I understand how I could make it work. A big part of me wants to. But the breakup showed me she'd prioritise her pain over my dignity & wellbeing. That's hard to come back from, especially after sacrificing so much to protect her.

 

[BeachTree]

Hi BeachTree, I just read through your posts here and it answered my question in your other thread. 

I just wanted to say, that I can absolutely understand because what I had with my partner was so similiar. And the others here are right: If you go back - and I did it so often! - the circle repeats.

In the end he couldn‘t live with my boundarieswhen I started to set them ( no abusive behavior accepted anymore. If you behave like that I have to go until you have calmed down ). He argued, that this is not love, this is control and he will not accept control.

And believe me: Every new circle started with lovebombing. „We make a new start now.“ But because he never really reflected himself, nothing changed. The phases became shorter and shorter between lovebombing, devaluation and discard.

The interesting thing is: Sometimes he came up month later and told me his perception and „truth“ about his last break up. And it was the opposite of what he told me while the lovebombing to get me back in.


The only time when he was really able to reflect was, when he was totally drunk. He is bpd/npd with alcohol abuse in phases. Six weeks sober. A trigger. Then one week dropping everything and drinking till breakdown. And in the drinking phases he is able to see his abusive behavior- and he knows, he destroys every friendship and relationship. But as soon as he is sober… back to grandiosity: He never made a mistake.
( When he is drunk it can also be like that, that he becomes extremely abusive - but I just wanted to point out that the alcohol makes it possible for him to reflect, what is sober just impossible. )

Thanks hiiumaa,

Interesting to hear that the cycle repeated. That scares me. I have set a hard boundary of what I would need to consider going back. But if I'm honest, I'm so unsure how it would go. And I don't even know if I could go back with self-respect.

When you did go back, did you have boundaries around getting back together?

[hiiumaa]

Hi BeachTree!

I guess, if you really would go back, you have to be prepared that the circle repeats. Here on the board are so many stories about it.

In the beginning I didn’t set clear boundaries after his break ups. I was caught in my fears of loosing him and I did to much for him to „save“ him.

But at one night - it was after two years of relationship - he attacked me bodily when he was in rage. Afterwards I started to set very clear boundaries.At first he seemed to accept them. He lovebombed me again and I was so happy and thought it would work now.

It did not. The rage and devaluation and braking up came quite quick. And with every brake up the circle was shorter.

Until today he is conviced, that my boundaries control and manipulation against him. That I‘m not loving, not caring and just cold and without empathy.

I‘ve always tried to explain to him that I love him, but that I have to go when he behaves emotionally or bodily abusive to protect myself. I was always clear, friendly and direct. It didn’t help.

He broke up again, ghosted me for a while, and came back… lovebombing.

[ForeverDad]

I don't think I ever lost my cool. It would have been better if I did actually, I was too kind.
She never dealt well with me pausing things if they started getting out of hand. It would wind her up even more, and then spiral/push-harder as she wanted it to be resolved.

Here's what happened the time my then-spouse thought I'd lost my cool.  She was ranting and raging, not listening to anything I tried to calmly say.  I did raise my voice and was firmer, but I wasn't yelling nor did I lose my self-control.  She got this look in her eyes as though she had succeeded, "Aha! I got him!"  So, no, it didn't work.  She wanted someone to vent back at her like she was venting at me.  By then it was only a matter of time before the marriage imploded.

And I remember all the times she's be ranting into the night and when I tried to go to sleep - I had to go to work in a few hours - she'd demand, "We're going to fix this now!"  At 2 am?  And so it never got fixed.  And the marriage failed.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.  In some cases it's become a lose-lose.

[Pook075]

Here's what happened the time my then-spouse thought I'd lost my cool.  She was ranting and raging, not listening to anything I tried to calmly say.  I did raise my voice and was firmer, but I wasn't yelling nor did I lose my self-control.  She got this look in her eyes as though she had succeeded, "Aha! I got him!"  So, no, it didn't work.  She wanted someone to vent back at her like she was venting at me.  By then it was only a matter of time before the marriage imploded.

And I remember all the times she's be ranting into the night and when I tried to go to sleep - I had to go to work in a few hours - she'd demand, "We're going to fix this now!"  At 2 am?  And so it never got fixed.  And the marriage failed.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.  In some cases it's become a lose-lose.

In my marriage, my wife had circular arguments that she could always fall back on...even though they weren't based in reality.  For example, she'd say, "You always say I never do anything around the house...."  Notice the always/never?  It's thinking in absolutes and there's no answer for that because (#1) I never told her she does "nothing" and (#2) when I tried to share what I actually thought or said, she'd just get angrier, call me a liar, and potentially become violent.

When my own words are used against me in a way that I never meant, and I'm not allowed to explain myself to repair the situation, then it does feel like all hope is lost.  And we had the above argument hundreds of times over 20+ years...over and over and over again.  This was one of many things she'd bring up that there was no solution to due to mental illness.

At the same time though, all that stuff stemmed from the truth.  My wife did very little around the house and would spend most of the day lying in bed playing on her phone, then say, "I worked my ass off today around the house!"  Sometimes, I couldn't help it and took the bait...and asked her what she actually did.  Once she realized that she really didn't do anything, then the accusation would come out painting me as the monster.

It's sickness and it's really sad, so I don't hold it against her anymore.  But then again, I'm not married to her anymore either.

[BeachTree]

Hi BeachTree!

I guess, if you really would go back, you have to be prepared that the circle repeats. Here on the board are so many stories about it.

In the beginning I didn’t set clear boundaries after his break ups. I was caught in my fears of loosing him and I did to much for him to „save“ him.

But at one night - it was after two years of relationship - he attacked me bodily when he was in rage. Afterwards I started to set very clear boundaries.At first he seemed to accept them. He lovebombed me again and I was so happy and thought it would work now.

It did not. The rage and devaluation and braking up came quite quick. And with every brake up the circle was shorter.

Until today he is conviced, that my boundaries control and manipulation against him. That I‘m not loving, not caring and just cold and without empathy.

I‘ve always tried to explain to him that I love him, but that I have to go when he behaves emotionally or bodily abusive to protect myself. I was always clear, friendly and direct. It didn’t help.

He broke up again, ghosted me for a while, and came back… lovebombing.

I think the hard thing is she says she reacts because she doesn't have security from me. So I would wonder what would happen if I went 100% in. But it was difficult to do when extreme things happened, and the stories on here are generally it got worse when people in a similar situation did that...

[BeachTree]

Here's what happened the time my then-spouse thought I'd lost my cool.  She was ranting and raging, not listening to anything I tried to calmly say.  I did raise my voice and was firmer, but I wasn't yelling nor did I lose my self-control.  She got this look in her eyes as though she had succeeded, "Aha! I got him!"  So, no, it didn't work.  She wanted someone to vent back at her like she was venting at me.  By then it was only a matter of time before the marriage imploded.

And I remember all the times she's be ranting into the night and when I tried to go to sleep - I had to go to work in a few hours - she'd demand, "We're going to fix this now!"  At 2 am?  And so it never got fixed.  And the marriage failed.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.  In some cases it's become a lose-lose.

My ex always wanted to fix things right now too. Couldn't take a break on a disagreement, even if it was after midnight!

[BeachTree]

In my marriage, my wife had circular arguments that she could always fall back on...even though they weren't based in reality.  For example, she'd say, "You always say I never do anything around the house...."  Notice the always/never?  It's thinking in absolutes and there's no answer for that because (#1) I never told her she does "nothing" and (#2) when I tried to share what I actually thought or said, she'd just get angrier, call me a liar, and potentially become violent.

When my own words are used against me in a way that I never meant, and I'm not allowed to explain myself to repair the situation, then it does feel like all hope is lost.  And we had the above argument hundreds of times over 20+ years...over and over and over again.  This was one of many things she'd bring up that there was no solution to due to mental illness.

At the same time though, all that stuff stemmed from the truth.  My wife did very little around the house and would spend most of the day lying in bed playing on her phone, then say, "I worked my ass off today around the house!"  Sometimes, I couldn't help it and took the bait...and asked her what she actually did.  Once she realized that she really didn't do anything, then the accusation would come out painting me as the monster.

It's sickness and it's really sad, so I don't hold it against her anymore.  But then again, I'm not married to her anymore either.

At least my ex didn't have that problem. She is the hardest worker I've ever seen. At work and for housework. She cannot rest unless everything is done!

[ForeverDad]

I think the hard thing is she says she reacts because she doesn't have security from me. So I would wonder what would happen if I went 100% in. But it was difficult to do when extreme things happened, and the stories on here are generally it got worse when people in a similar situation did that...

The problem is that being 100% in can become appeasing or letting the other define who you are.

It's been many years ago, but about a year or so before my marriage imploded and we separated then divorced, I had tried to give up my integrity and it still didn't work.  I'll mention one  aspect... apologies.  More and more she was demanding I apologize for her past hurts, whether it made sense or not, even when I'd already apologized many time before.

So I decided to apologize whenever it was demanded of me, yes, 100% of the time.  Did her demands lessen?  No, they kept right on.  Then one time she complained I didn't word my apology right, she told me I left something out.  It's wasn't long before I - oops - left something else out and then second time I left a different part of my apology out.  I remember one time we went around in circles about a half dozen times and she never caught on that I had become fed up with appeasing her.  Finally, after months of this, I accepted it wasn't working and I told her - a surprise boundary for me - "I will apologize only when I agreed there was something meriting an apology, and then only one time, no more of this rehashing the past over and over and never letting go and moving on."

I should mention that it is unwise and legally dangerous to apologize for doing something legally wrong.  I sometimes comment that saying "I'm sorry you feel hurt" is safer.  Last I heard, you can't be convicted in court for hurting someone's feelings.  Although I hear that those laws are changing in some countries.