And she's back...

[BeachTree]

I posted on here a few months ago.

Short story. I'd been in a long term relationship with my, most of the time amazing girlfriend. It was the best and by far the worst relationship of my life.
The major problem, was I didn't feel like I had free choice on moving forward in the relationship. Around that topic there were blow ups, threats a few threats of suicide from her, cutting herself (not deeply - but still scary), triangulation (brining in 3rd parties opinions to influence my decisions), reproductive coercion (saying we aren't using condoms after a certain date, throwing out condoms, talking about stealing sperm).
It was too much, we finally broke up in March.

Almost immediately she moved a new guy in. I was devastated, and honestly I pathetically begged for us to get back together. She said no.

Now she has come back. She says:
- She is going to leave the other guy because she realised how much she loves me and never properly grieved me. She wants me to give a yes/no if I would try again.
- Apparently, she no longer meets the criteria for bpd and they think she is autistic with bpd traits? I find it hard to believe, I feel perhaps she's just not in an environment/mindset where she is being set off currently.

I feel perhaps the best thing I could say to her is the truth.
That I'm not closed to us trying. But I'd need her for quite a long time, to be fully single not seeing anyone, stable, working on herself and demonstrating how we could come back together in a healthy way. And even then I'm not sure if I can get over it.
Until then I'll be living my life without her.

Or do I just walk away. If she had worked on herself instead of rebounding, I would have taken her back if we agreed on a plan forward of how things would be different.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Under The Bridge]

She is going to leave the other guy because she realised how much she loves me and never properly grieved me. She wants me to give a yes/no if I would try again.

As she's been with this new guy for a few months now, a more likely reason for her return is that she is now out of the idealisation phase with him, seeing his many flaws - whether real or imagined - and, in BPD fashion, wants a 'fresh start'. So back she comes to her only other option - you.

With BPD, what you've had so far is a good indicator of what you'll continue to get; it would be nice if this was just a one-off incident but BDP runs in repeating cycles, which needs to be considered.

But I'd need her for quite a long time, to be fully single not seeing anyone, stable, working on herself and demonstrating how we could come back together in a healthy way.

That's totally reasonable with a non-BPD partner who's strayed.. but to a BPD who can't control their emotional state from one day to another, sticking to such a serious commitment would be difficult, especially if they don't even accept they have  a problem. You're asking her for logical thought and actions, which her illness does not allow.

You need to ask yourself, based on your time together, if she would be capable of at least making genuine effort. Only you can judge this. If you think she could then by all means give her the chance - but take it slowly and don't build up your expectations.

Best wishes

[ForeverDad]

Bpd is a disorder of the closest of relationships.  People on the periphery may notice something "off" but they don't face the full brunt of the inconsistent yo-yo ups and downs and, call it what it is, the abuse of the relationship.

From a distance she can claim she will return and things will be different, better.  The reality is that she hasn't had time to reflect on herself, her perceptions and her behavior.  Not only that, she's saying she's really not outright Borderline with the known traits.  (That is typical Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.)  Positive change is a massive process, not an event.

Yes, you can get on the roller coaster again but be aware the ride  in circles and cycles will almost surely resume again.

Have you been in sessions with an experienced counselor?  Find one your comfortable with and who has experience and skills.  While we do have an assortment of peer support resources here, boards with book reviews, articles, tools & skills, and much more, the personal sessions are helpful too.

[BeachTree]

As she's been with this new guy for a few months now, a more likely reason for her return is that she is now out of the idealisation phase with him, seeing his many flaws - whether real or imagined - and, in BPD fashion, wants a 'fresh start'. So back she comes to her only other option - you.

With BPD, what you've had so far is a good indicator of what you'll continue to get; it would be nice if this was just a one-off incident but BDP runs in repeating cycles, which needs to be considered.

That's totally reasonable with a non-BPD partner who's strayed.. but to a BPD who can't control their emotional state from one day to another, sticking to such a serious commitment would be difficult, especially if they don't even accept they have  a problem. You're asking her for logical thought and actions, which her illness does not allow.

You need to ask yourself, based on your time together, if she would be capable of at least making genuine effort. Only you can judge this. If you think she could then by all means give her the chance - but take it slowly and don't build up your expectations.

Best wishes

You make a good point. What I need from her, she has shown she is not capable of. And that is really sad.
She is an extremely capable and strong person in most areas of life. But she can't be alone.

And also, I don't know if I could return with any enthusiasm. It would take me a long time I think.

What is also interesting from 1 year onwards she was constantly pushing for a baby. Even often threatening things like getting a sperm donor. Now she says the urge to have a baby is gone.

[BeachTree]

Bpd is a disorder of the closest of relationships.  People on the periphery may notice something "off" but they don't face the full brunt of the inconsistent yo-yo ups and downs and, call it what it is, the abuse of the relationship.

From a distance she can claim she will return and things will be different, better.  The reality is that she hasn't had time to reflect on herself, her perceptions and her behavior.  Not only that, she's saying she's really not outright Borderline with the known traits.  (That is typical Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.)  Positive change is a massive process, not an event.

Yes, you can get on the roller coaster again but be aware the ride  in circles and cycles will almost surely resume again.

Have you been in sessions with an experienced counselor?  Find one your comfortable with and who has experience and skills.  While we do have an assortment of peer support resources here, boards with book reviews, articles, tools & skills, and much more, the personal sessions are helpful too.

I have had so many psychology sessions since being in this relationship!

Yes that's a good point. She claims she's better, but I highly doubt it.

[Pook075]

- She is going to leave the other guy because she realised how much she loves me and never properly grieved me. She wants me to give a yes/no if I would try again.
- Apparently, she no longer meets the criteria for bpd and they think she is autistic with bpd traits? I find it hard to believe, I feel perhaps she's just not in an environment/mindset where she is being set off currently.

Personally, I feel bad for you and just as bad for the new guy.  He didn't deserve this either.  But most of all I feel bad for her because she's her own worst enemy.

People don't "stop meeting the criteria for BPD."  My BPD daughter, who's made massive strides in therapy the past 3 years, still has BPD and still struggles daily.  The difference today is that she knows to second guess some of her compulsions and to slow down her thinking...to see where it came from.  Is my kid better?  Yes times 10!  It she cured?  Heck no!  As I said, she still struggles daily.

Your ex is at a crossroads and in many ways, you are as well.  Talk to her, give her a real chance to work through things.  You owe that to yourself.  But at the same time, don't drink the Kool-aid.  She's currently different because she's trying to win you back, and it's very easy at first since everything is love and affection.  That part tells you nothing other than you're attracted to her.  We already know that though.

Have a few tough conversations with her.  Make it uncomfortable to see how she reacts.  That will tell you if there's any change at all or if this is just another rebound.  For example, you don't want to jump into anything.  Perfect.  Stand your ground and start over...talking, dating, and getting to know her all over again.  That's how you'll know without blindly accepting that this won't happen again.

As a consolation, she is being genuine here...she does want you back.  But she's also mentally ill and there's a chance it doesn't last.  The next steps are completely up to you.

[BeachTree]

Personally, I feel bad for you and just as bad for the new guy.  He didn't deserve this either.  But most of all I feel bad for her because she's her own worst enemy.

People don't "stop meeting the criteria for BPD."  My BPD daughter, who's made massive strides in therapy the past 3 years, still has BPD and still struggles daily.  The difference today is that she knows to second guess some of her compulsions and to slow down her thinking...to see where it came from.  Is my kid better?  Yes times 10!  It she cured?  Heck no!  As I said, she still struggles daily.

Your ex is at a crossroads and in many ways, you are as well.  Talk to her, give her a real chance to work through things.  You owe that to yourself.  But at the same time, don't drink the Kool-aid.  She's currently different because she's trying to win you back, and it's very easy at first since everything is love and affection.  That part tells you nothing other than you're attracted to her.  We already know that though.

Have a few tough conversations with her.  Make it uncomfortable to see how she reacts.  That will tell you if there's any change at all or if this is just another rebound.  For example, you don't want to jump into anything.  Perfect.  Stand your ground and start over...talking, dating, and getting to know her all over again.  That's how you'll know without blindly accepting that this won't happen again.

As a consolation, she is being genuine here...she does want you back.  But she's also mentally ill and there's a chance it doesn't last.  The next steps are completely up to you.

Hi Pook075,

Yes we had the tough conversations. I made it very clear that the only way I could ever consider it is if we were both single and stable. And there are no guarantees. I can't accept jumping from relationship to relationship. I wouldn't accept than from anyone, including her.

The conversations were so tough. I'm surprised how much better I can hold boundaries and see clearly now I have had quite some time out of the relationship.

In the end she accepted it and said she needs to make a decision. I expect I'll here from her again soon...

I do know she genuinely really deeply treasured our relationship. I think I have a pretty good understanding of why she did the things she did. But that doesn't mean I have to accept the things that happened, or take her back.

It is sad, because I also genuinely treasured our relationship. And I feel if she had stayed single, I would have (slowly) taken her back if we both agreed on a mutual plan. But unfortunately in the distressed state she was in, I don't think that was possible.

[Pook075]

Hi Pook075,

Yes we had the tough conversations. I made it very clear that the only way I could ever consider it is if we were both single and stable. And there are no guarantees. I can't accept jumping from relationship to relationship. I wouldn't accept than from anyone, including her.

The conversations were so tough. I'm surprised how much better I can hold boundaries and see clearly now I have had quite some time out of the relationship.

In the end she accepted it and said she needs to make a decision. I expect I'll here from her again soon...

I do know she genuinely really deeply treasured our relationship. I think I have a pretty good understanding of why she did the things she did. But that doesn't mean I have to accept the things that happened, or take her back.

It is sad, because I also genuinely treasured our relationship. And I feel if she had stayed single, I would have (slowly) taken her back if we both agreed on a mutual plan. But unfortunately in the distressed state she was in, I don't think that was possible.

I completely understand and it sounds like you're making wise choices.  Just give it time and see how everything unfolds.  Wishing you luck, my friend.

[Under The Bridge]

In the end she accepted it and said she needs to make a decision. I expect I'll here from her again soon...

Good for you for sticking to boundaries. However, this is the part which would still cause me concern;  the fact that she hasn't made 'the decision' and appears to be stalling and non-commital, still wanting both options of you and the other guy if she can have them. If she was totally sure she wanted you back - as she implies -  the decision would already be made.

Have you given her a timescale to make up her mind and made her aware that you can't - or won't - wait forever?

[BeachTree]

I completely understand and it sounds like you're making wise choices.  Just give it time and see how everything unfolds.  Wishing you luck, my friend.

Thanks Pook075

I think in reality, she will find it too hard to risk being single.
She mentioned that getting into the new relationship helped her avoid dark thoughts, even if it's not really what she wants.
I think it would be the best thing for her if she could handle it, regardless of what path she takes.

[BeachTree]

Good for you for sticking to boundaries. However, this is the part which would still cause me concern;  the fact that she hasn't made 'the decision' and appears to be stalling and non-commital, still wanting both options of you and the other guy if she can have them. If she was totally sure she wanted you back - as she implies -  the decision would already be made.

Have you given her a timescale to make up her mind and made her aware that you can't - or won't - wait forever?

Hi Under the Bridge,

Thanks for your comments

She is not consistent. At first she said she is definitely leaving her new partner, then she said she needs "more than a maybe" from me, because a maybe isn't enough to leave a relationship for...

I think it scares her too much to be on her own. She didn't like that I said she would need to be clearly single for a significant time. I think that's a good filter for me, to prove she is not relying on a partner for her own regulation, and for my own self respect.

I haven't given her a timescale and I'm not giving her any guarantees that I would try again even if she was stable and single. I've just given that to her as a minimum for me to consider it, I can't be a part of her jumping straight back to me, or further talks behind her new partners back.
In the meantime, I'm not waiting. I'm living my life without her.

[Under The Bridge]

In the meantime, I'm not waiting. I'm living my life without her.

Absolutely the right thing to do - you simply can't do any more and the ball is firmly in her court now. The only person you truly have control of is yourself and life must go on. It can take a long time for some of us to realise and accept that, especially as a BPD relationship is unlike any other, with it's intensity.

Get out into the world again.. I often find good things happen when you least expect them

[Pook075]

Thanks Pook075

I think in reality, she will find it too hard to risk being single.
She mentioned that getting into the new relationship helped her avoid dark thoughts, even if it's not really what she wants.
I think it would be the best thing for her if she could handle it, regardless of what path she takes.

And that's the crux of the mental illness.  When something starts to get dark and scary, run to the next thing in pursuit of happiness.  Hang out with that until you're not happy anymore.

The new guy, we don't know him.  But I doubt he's a terrible person or anything like that.  She idolized him at first and now that she sees he's human (imperfect), she's thinking about when things with you were perfect.  It's an endless cycle running to the next thing and it brings them so much pain and heartbreak.  It's very sad and it breaks my heart for them.

The way you "break that cycle" is better communication, affirming her feelings, and making extra time when her mood begins to shift.  If she gets extra love and attention during those times, the fear fades.  If she doesn't, it multiplies and she begins to second guess everything.

Most here fail in these relationships simply because we don't understand what the heck is going on, or why they're acting that way.  But the answer is so obvious- they feel neglected, abandoned, and insecure.  It's the actual criteria for a BPD diagnosis in the first place.  So we lean into those feelings, make them feel loved and appreciated, and the fear goes away.

I wish you (and her) all the luck in the world.  You can make this work, but you'll have to change as much as she will.  Long-term therapy would do wonders for her but that will only happen when she realizes the need inside.  So for now, it's literally up to you to love her differently...to hold back when things suddenly get ugly.  Because in her mind, what she says is true and factual. 

You have to spot those negative thoughts early and give her the tools to overcome it (love, patience, empathy, etc).  In essence, you're becoming her therapy.

[BeachTree]

Absolutely the right thing to do - you simply can't do any more and the ball is firmly in her court now. The only person you truly have control of is yourself and life must go on. It can take a long time for some of us to realise and accept that, especially as a BPD relationship is unlike any other, with it's intensity.

Get out into the world again.. I often find good things happen when you least expect them

Thanks Under The Bridge,

I will find it hard without the intensity she brings. I've become accustomed to it!

[BeachTree]

Hi Pook075,
Thanks for your replies.

And that's the crux of the mental illness.  When something starts to get dark and scary, run to the next thing in pursuit of happiness.  Hang out with that until you're not happy anymore.

That is so scary & sad. And I don't think I will ever fully comprehend. I think she was actually worse than I thought, but I she hid it well, and I minimised things that happened so much while in the relationship.

The way you "break that cycle" is better communication, affirming her feelings, and making extra time when her mood begins to shift.  If she gets extra love and attention during those times, the fear fades.  If she doesn't, it multiplies and she begins to second guess everything.

Most here fail in these relationships simply because we don't understand what the heck is going on, or why they're acting that way.  But the answer is so obvious- they feel neglected, abandoned, and insecure.  It's the actual criteria for a BPD diagnosis in the first place.  So we lean into those feelings, make them feel loved and appreciated, and the fear goes away.

You have to spot those negative thoughts early and give her the tools to overcome it (love, patience, empathy, etc).  In essence, you're becoming her therapy.

I don't think I agree with that approach anymore. Or if that approach is taken, it needs to be done with very strong boundaries. My problem was I was too patient, too empathetic, too understanding of her feelings and pain.
That becomes a caretaker dynamic, where you become responsible for managing their emotions. And I slowly lost myself bit by bit over time.

I wish you (and her) all the luck in the world.  You can make this work, but you'll have to change as much as she will.  Long-term therapy would do wonders for her but that will only happen when she realizes the need inside.  So for now, it's literally up to you to love her differently...to hold back when things suddenly get ugly.  Because in her mind, what she says is true and factual. 

Thankyou so much for your well wishes. I think the most important part on my side is keeping a frame where I'm not over-whelmed so I can see what happened and holding boundaries hard. Too much empathy for her pain at the expense of myself is what got me over years, and I didn't ever realise it.

In summary, what I've learnt is that while that support in a relationship is healthy, taking on the role of regulator isn’t. I can love someone, but it's not healthy to become their therapist.